Re: [lace] top/edge sewing
This was a lot of very useful information, but I'm afraid I went and asked the wrong questions. It turns out that the sewings I'm having trouble with are neither top nor edge sewings. Rather, in Russian Tape when the 2 pairs from the filling rejoin the tape as the worker and the edge passive, they need to sew back into the pinhole that they left from before continuing on their way. That is the sewing that has me all confused. This is what I am doing: The tape has 2 pr regular passives with CTC, and 1 pr each edge passives with CTCT. When there is no filling to be made, the edge is made with: T the worker pair, CTCT, pin, CTCT, head back across (or, translated to open mode: TCTC, pin, TCTC, T the worker pair, head back across). When I need to take the edge passive and the worker out to do fillings, I've been doing: T the worker, CTCT, pin, start plaiting, eventually plait back around to the tape (ending the plain on a T), remove the pin, sew into the hole, make sure the sewn pair has a T, CTCT, take the pair closer to the tape back across as the worker, use the other pair as the edge passive. But, note, the way Russian Tape fillings are charted, they cross back over themselves when they rejoin the tape. So I'm crossing as I sew. And then if I take the returning pairs *below* the pin after I sew, the join is ugly as it sags down between this pin and the next. But if I take one above and one below the pin after I sew, closing the pin (again) with my last CTCT, I end up with a little circular loop of thread hanging out there. Am I doing too much? The pin ends up having whole stitches before and after it both times (if you count the stitches that comprise the plait). It looks messy. Thanks, Amanda On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 03:05:08PM -0700, Patricia Dowden wrote: Hi Amanda and Weronika, A tape usually has a sewing edge. The outside contour is created as a single line and the interchange of the weavers creates a U around the pin. If you sew smack into the pinhole over both the bar and the U, that is an edge sewing. The finished lace will have the parts that meet there butted against each other. If you sew under one or the other of the bars that make up the U, that is a top sewing. The finished lace will have a slight 3D effect where the part that was sewn into will look as if it overlaps the part that was sewn into it. You do not sew into an unsupported bar, it leads to unhappiness, ( or at least distortion in your lace). Now let us consider the construction of the edge stitches. There are one or more twists before the edge stitch, the edge stitch itself (which swaps the weavers) and then one or more twists after the edge stitch. The number of twists before and after the edge stitch should be equal. So the bars of the U should have the same number of twists. The following is what I do and doesn't seem to disagree violently with the books I've read. Take it with a grain of salt. To make a sewing, remove the pin where you will sew in. Make your sewing. Replace the pin. Tension and continue. The tensioned thread is not around the pin (that would leave it loose and could cause the lace to sag and is the reason not to sew in to the unsupported bar). If two sewing edges are meeting for just one or two stitches, then you can maintain the sewing edge on the part being sewn in. In this case, the edge pairs don't exchange. The weaver goes out through the edge pair, makes the sewing and comes back through the edge pair. Existing Tape New Tape (T)T CTCT Sewing CTCT T(T) (T)T CTCT T(T) If two sewing edges are meeting for a long stretch, as happens in Milanese, for example, then you throw out the edge pair. Existing Tape New Tape (T)T CTCT Sewing T(T) (T)T T(T) Sewings eat one twist, so you should add a twist to the normal number of twists after the sewing. Patty Dowden -Original Message- From: Amanda Babcock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [lace] top/edge sewing All, What is the difference between top sewings and edge sewings? Is there a diagram online? I've been doing a tape lace for the first time, sort of experimentally, and am not satisfied with any of the ways of doing sewings that I've come up with (which thread gets pulled through, whether they need twisting afterwards, whether to go around the pin when rejoining the tape from doing fillings, etc). I would love to see the official way of doing this. Thanks, Amanda On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 10:28:39AM +0200, J. Falkink wrote: Hello Spiders Im busy with the Palm tree from Milanese Lace: an Introduction. I did the first one-and a half leaf, did other things for a few month, then finished the second
Re: [lace] top/edge sewing
Hello Amanda and list I don't do any sewing at the point of entry of the filling pairs back into their use as first passive and tape weaver. I put a temp. pin at the end of the latest plait (before re-entry), decide which is my weaver pair, work the CTCT with it through the passive (just as if the filling never happened) - edge passive now in place, and the weaver resumes with the waiting tape passives. Does this help? -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] top/edge sewing
On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 12:50:28PM -0700, Bev Walker wrote: I don't do any sewing at the point of entry of the filling pairs back into their use as first passive and tape weaver. I put a temp. pin at the end of the latest plait (before re-entry), decide which is my weaver pair, work the CTCT with it through the passive (just as if the filling never happened) - edge passive now in place, and the weaver resumes with the waiting tape passives. Does this help? Well, I'm kind of confused now. Which two pairs are you using to plait? Because you mention CTCT'ing through the passive, but the way I'm doing the plait, the passive (the edge passive, the one that takes CTCT) was part of the plait... Thanks, Amanda - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] top/edge sewing
Amanda Top sewings and edge sewings don't necessarily have to do with tape lace: they are more important in Duchesse, Honiton and Bruges Bloomwork. 1. In the most common type of tape lace, your tape has a winkiepin edge, also called pin after 2 threads. After you set the edge pin, you twist the weaver 1-3 extra times, then close the pin. Those extra twists make a loop at the pin. In most tape laces the sewing is made into that weaver loop. You twist the pair that gets sewn depending on how much space there is between its own tape and the part you are sewing into. There is no rule, just do what makes sense, remembering that extra twists take up space if the distance is large, and the twists also strengthen the threads. 2. When your tape has a sewing edge also called Pin after 4 threads, then the language of edge sewings and top sewings makes sense. When you are making a sewing edge, you stitch the weaver and edge pair, and then set the pin so that both pairs go around the outside of the pin (pin after 4 threads), and then return to make your next row with the pair nearer the pin. The result of this is that you change weavers at every row. The sewing would normally be done into the space where the pin was, straight in from the edge, so that the crochet hook reaches under the 4 threads that are stitched together at that place. This would be called the edge sewing. A top sewing would be made so that the hook grabs just the weaver. It bypasses the pin area, goes under the weaver and grabs the thread. The net result of this type of sewing is that the edge of the tape gets forced upwards slightly (downwards as the right side of the lace faces the pillow). When you take the piece off the pillow you have a slight relief effect, which can be very nice. Another use of top and bottom sewings (first pass the top weaver, 2nd pass the lower) is to gain on a pin when you need 2 sewings into the same area. You can find diagrams on page 54 of Cooks PRACTICAL SKILLS. 4a 4b is an edge sewing, 5a and 5c are top and bottom sewings. Lorelei Halley - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] top/edge sewing
All, What is the difference between top sewings and edge sewings? Is there a diagram online? I've been doing a tape lace for the first time, sort of experimentally, and am not satisfied with any of the ways of doing sewings that I've come up with (which thread gets pulled through, whether they need twisting afterwards, whether to go around the pin when rejoining the tape from doing fillings, etc). I would love to see the official way of doing this. Thanks, Amanda On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 10:28:39AM +0200, J. Falkink wrote: Hello Spiders Im busy with the Palm tree from Milanese Lace: an Introduction. I did the first one-and a half leaf, did other things for a few month, then finished the second half of the second leaf. But... I forgot I did the first leaf with top sewing and did the second with edge sewings. I don't have an apetite in undoing, and on second thoughts I think edge sewing are better in this case. Could I hide the effect of the top sewing for the first leaf somehow? For example by sewing one or two threads around the sewing line? Jo Falkink - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] top/edge sewing
Good question! I'd like to know that too... Weronika On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 04:26:16PM -0400, Amanda Babcock wrote: All, What is the difference between top sewings and edge sewings? Is there a diagram online? I've been doing a tape lace for the first time, sort of experimentally, and am not satisfied with any of the ways of doing sewings that I've come up with (which thread gets pulled through, whether they need twisting afterwards, whether to go around the pin when rejoining the tape from doing fillings, etc). I would love to see the official way of doing this. Thanks, Amanda - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] top/edge sewing
Hi Amanda and Weronika, A tape usually has a sewing edge. The outside contour is created as a single line and the interchange of the weavers creates a U around the pin. If you sew smack into the pinhole over both the bar and the U, that is an edge sewing. The finished lace will have the parts that meet there butted against each other. If you sew under one or the other of the bars that make up the U, that is a top sewing. The finished lace will have a slight 3D effect where the part that was sewn into will look as if it overlaps the part that was sewn into it. You do not sew into an unsupported bar, it leads to unhappiness, ( or at least distortion in your lace). Now let us consider the construction of the edge stitches. There are one or more twists before the edge stitch, the edge stitch itself (which swaps the weavers) and then one or more twists after the edge stitch. The number of twists before and after the edge stitch should be equal. So the bars of the U should have the same number of twists. The following is what I do and doesn't seem to disagree violently with the books I've read. Take it with a grain of salt. To make a sewing, remove the pin where you will sew in. Make your sewing. Replace the pin. Tension and continue. The tensioned thread is not around the pin (that would leave it loose and could cause the lace to sag and is the reason not to sew in to the unsupported bar). If two sewing edges are meeting for just one or two stitches, then you can maintain the sewing edge on the part being sewn in. In this case, the edge pairs don't exchange. The weaver goes out through the edge pair, makes the sewing and comes back through the edge pair. Existing Tape New Tape (T)T CTCT Sewing CTCT T(T) (T)T CTCT T(T) If two sewing edges are meeting for a long stretch, as happens in Milanese, for example, then you throw out the edge pair. Existing Tape New Tape (T)T CTCT Sewing T(T) (T)T T(T) Sewings eat one twist, so you should add a twist to the normal number of twists after the sewing. Patty Dowden -Original Message- From: Amanda Babcock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [lace] top/edge sewing All, What is the difference between top sewings and edge sewings? Is there a diagram online? I've been doing a tape lace for the first time, sort of experimentally, and am not satisfied with any of the ways of doing sewings that I've come up with (which thread gets pulled through, whether they need twisting afterwards, whether to go around the pin when rejoining the tape from doing fillings, etc). I would love to see the official way of doing this. Thanks, Amanda On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 10:28:39AM +0200, J. Falkink wrote: Hello Spiders Im busy with the Palm tree from Milanese Lace: an Introduction. I did the first one-and a half leaf, did other things for a few month, then finished the second half of the second leaf. But... I forgot I did the first leaf with top sewing and did the second with edge sewings. I don't have an apetite in undoing, and on second thoughts I think edge sewing are better in this case. Could I hide the effect of the top sewing for the first leaf somehow? For example by sewing one or two threads around the sewing line? Jo Falkink - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] top/edge sewing
Hi Amanda and Weronika, Patty Dowden has given a good explanation of the difference between top and edge sewings, and how to do them. As well as removing the pin form the hole you are sewing into, lifting and possibly removing pins which have been pushed right down either side of the hole can be needed to make the sewing without breaking the section already worked - especially in finer work when using a needle pin. Edge sewings can also be used to attach pairs of bobbins to start a new section of work, slipping one bobbin through the loop of thread pulled through the pin hole. Apart from the difference in look on the sewn edge, there are times when a top sewing is preferable. In Honiton lace for instance, top sewings are made for a particularly close join, as well as when you want to sew out a filling, as the cut ends of the threads are less likely to show. Ending a braid or tape at an already worked edge would also be joined with top sewings to help hide the cut ends. Hope this helps, Karen In Coventry, where it has rained most of the day. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
