RE: API Serial Functions
From having a quick look through the license agreement, it looks like you can distribute the DLLs (and no, they don't require registration) freely, as long as they are part of your professional application (eg: no redistributing just the DLLs, or including any of their source code, or as a part of a LabVIEW serial toolkit - bugger!) --- EULA 1) This is a private email, and although the views expressed within it may not be purely my own, unless specifically referenced I do not suggest they are necessarily associated with anyone else including, but not limited to, my employer(s). 2) This email has NOT been scanned for virii - attached file(s), if any, are provided as is. By copying, detaching and/or opening attached files, you agree to indemnify the sender of such responsibility. 3) Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed. Subject: Re: RE: API Serial Functions From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...I have just started developing with the MarshallSoft library, but it does appear the DLL functions without being registered. It is my understanding that distribution is free of royalties. Allen Weekley
Re: API Serial Functions
Thanks once again Albert! You don't need to hurry for me, but I think it would great to have access to an alternative to VISA for serial comms in LV. -BG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi my email address has changed. see below about the serial lib: we have a shell that makes it possible to use the old function calls in lv7 simply hiding the lv7 visa calls and looking he same as before but with a slightly modified behaviour (we cannot use the end string but only the endchar) If you need it I pack it and send it to openG Albert Geven Tel +31 (0)40 27 43019 Philips Research email [EMAIL PROTECTED] prof Holstlaan 4WAA01 5656AA Eindhoven -- Bill Gilbert, EM Tech UMN School of Physics and Astronomy Tel 612 624 4870 Fax 612 624 4578
RE: API Serial Functions
Ok, I guess a definition is required for the term VISA because I think we are on different wavelengths. When I speak of VISA, I mean any call (from LabVIEW) of the VISA Read and VISA Write functions. Distribution of the VISA support files are a different story. You can use NI's method or cook-up your own (I use installshield). Regardless, you are still obligated by NI licencing and distribution requirements. I don't want to start another licencing thread... I fairly sure that for the correct platform you can embed the VISA libraries in an executable, This is the first time I hear of this. Embed? Meaning no external DLL's or support files? Even if this is true, you still have to have a valid VISA distribution licence. for other platforms your requirements may mean that you are on your own to build something that is different than most people need or want. VISA is not needed it is just most convenient. Yes, I see now that it is not needed. There apparently are other none NI solutions that incorporate external DLL's, ActiveX controls, .NET assemblies etc. (how about the Mac?). Are any of these Opensource? ;-) Michael Aivaliotis
RE: API Serial Functions
At 1:17 PM -0400 4/6/04, Michael Aivaliotis wrote: Ok, I guess a definition is required for the term VISA because I think we are on different wavelengths. When I speak of VISA, I mean any call (from LabVIEW) of the VISA Read and VISA Write functions. That is my definition as well. But to make them functional you need the libraries somewhere. Regardless, you are still obligated by NI licencing and distribution requirements. I don't want to start another licencing thread... No, no, not that!!! Anything but a licensing discussion! :-) I fairly sure that for the correct platform you can embed the VISA libraries in an executable, This is the first time I hear of this. Embed? Meaning no external DLL's or support files? Even if this is true, you still have to have a valid VISA distribution licence. The DLLs (frameworks) can be placed in the resource directory of the built app. It will look monolithic as a single file. They are technically a support file, but the definition gets fuzzy if such a bundle of files looks like a single file to the user. That might be the only requirement, that the final product just be a single icon that can be dragged onto a machine. Of course another way to approach that is have the application look for the VISA libraries on launch and install them automatically. This will leave traces on the target machine, but to the user there is only one application icon and they just click on it. There apparently are other none NI solutions that incorporate external DLL's, ActiveX controls, .NET assemblies etc. (how about the Mac?). Are any of these Opensource? ;-) The Mac it is trivial. just open up a file to /dev/tty.USA28X1915P1.1 and you are connected to one of the keyspan serial port connectors. Linux would be the same trivial exercise with a different text string. You can set the port parameters with a system call to stty after you open it. However, VISA is still easier. -Scott
RE: API Serial Functions
Scott the Mac it is trivial. just open up a file to /dev/tty.USA28X1915P1.1 I can see how trivial this is "/dev/tty.USA28X1915P1.1" ! :P No offense intended, just though it "look" funny. PJMDo you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today
RE: API Serial Functions
I do not think VISA is required for serial communication. The minimal VISA installation that Dan Mondrik mentioned would be fine for many applications, Yes, I agree, but it's still VISA... but I have a requirement where (for reasons I will not go into here) the customer needs the application to communicate via serial without any software installation. One possibility to accomplish this without VISA is the Windows API, but I am using the MarshallSoft serial library. The MarshallSoft DLL's are easier to interface with and better documented than the Windows API. http://www.marshallsoft.com/ No software installation required? I agree that the DLL you mentioned is an alternative to consider but it still must be installed and registered on the system, no? I like the cost of it $105 instead of $565 for VISA however. Do the MarshallSoft DLL's have licencing restrictions for distribution? Michael Aivaliotis Allen Weekley -Original Message- From: Michael Aivaliotis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 5:05 PM To: 'Bill Gilbert' Cc: 'Scott Hannahs'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: API Serial Functions What Albert Geven describes is NOT an alternative to VISA, it still uses VISA. AFAIK there is NO option, you must use VISA. Am I the only one who thinks we're beating a dead horse here? No offence intended Bill Michael Aivaliotis
Re: API Serial Functions
How about the NLSerial functions that were written at Philips Research by Albert Geven co? Are they still in the list archives? I still have a copy. Not sure how they would feel about someone distributing them for profit, but you could ask. Here is Albert's address from the doc file(old): Albert Geven, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I used these in some applications back when I was really disgusted with VISA and it's documentation for serial stuff. They are still working in old systems we have which have been upgraded as far as LV6.0.2. Thanks again Albert, if you are listening! I'm happy using VISA now, but it is sort of like the Swiss army knife you got for Xmas with 35 blades that requires you to switch to suspenders to hold your pants up. And all you really wanted was a bottle opener. --BG Bill Gilbert, EM Tech UMN School of Physics and Astronomy Tel 612 624 4870 Fax 612 624 4578 C. Allen Weekley wrote: Hello, Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Allen Weekley
Re: API Serial Functions
Yes, and I have updated them and they are available http://sthmac.magnet.fsu.edu/labview. The gotcha is that they use traditional serial port calls and since LV 7.0 those calls are now routed thru VISA. There is also a native VISA version that is much more robust and simpler. It is a great package and made the transition from traditional serial to VISA almost trivial! But since the traditional serial port calls have gone away this is not a work around. The best is that there is a serial only visa package that makes things manageable. -Scott At 1:52 PM -0600 3/26/04, Bill Gilbert wrote: How about the NLSerial functions that were written at Philips Research by Albert Geven co? Are they still in the list archives? I still have a copy. Not sure how they would feel about someone distributing them for profit, but you could ask. Here is Albert's address from the doc file(old): Albert Geven, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I used these in some applications back when I was really disgusted with VISA and it's documentation for serial stuff. They are still working in old systems we have which have been upgraded as far as LV6.0.2. Thanks again Albert, if you are listening! I'm happy using VISA now, but it is sort of like the Swiss army knife you got for Xmas with 35 blades that requires you to switch to suspenders to hold your pants up. And all you really wanted was a bottle opener. --BG Bill Gilbert, EM Tech UMN School of Physics and Astronomy Tel 612 624 4870 Fax 612 624 4578 C. Allen Weekley wrote: Hello, Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Allen Weekley
API Serial Functions
Hello, Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Allen Weekley
RE: API Serial Functions
Scott, Thanks for the response. Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Allen -Original Message- From: Scott Hannahs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: API Serial Functions At 4:27 PM -0800 3/8/04, C. Allen Weekley wrote: Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Allen, Why re-invent the wheel? Actually the people who did this are the people who wrote the VISA library. Any reason not to use their work? -Scott
API Serial Functions
Hello, Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Allen Weekley
RE: API Serial Functions
Rolf, The Open-G VISA idea sounds really interesting. I am a bit wary of open source because it seems difficult to make an installation that is a combination of open source code and proprietary code, and meet the rules for distributing open source code while still protecting the proprietary code. If you have any ideas about how to make this issue easier to deal with I would be interested in working on the Open-G VISA library. Allen -Original Message- From: Rolf Kalbermatter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:28 AM To: 'C. Allen Weekley' Cc: Info LabVIEW (E-mail) Subject: RE: API Serial Functions C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Well, I see. Just forget about my previous mail then, will you. I have started some work on a VISA32.DLL replacement which I intend to release as Open-G VISA library. It is far from complete and I have only worked on Windows yet but intend to actually push the Linux version more. It is structured similar as NI-VISA with VISA32.DLL as top level API and low level plugin DLLs which provide support for particular VISA resource types. The first I have started with is serial of course, but it is as I said not functional at all yet. I still need some common infrastructure libraries as well. I was intending to get something working before putting it out, but it is geoing slow and it will take quite some time before I get there. If you would be interested in working on that as well I could create an Open-G subproject and put up what I have so far so that you could take a look at it and work yourself on it as well. Rolf Kalbermatter CIT Engineering Nederland BVtel: +31 (070) 415 9190 Treubstraat 7H fax: +31 (070) 415 9191 2288 EG Rijswijkhttp://www.citengineering.com Netherlands mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: API Serial Functions
At 7:31 PM -0800 3/8/04, C. Allen Weekley wrote: Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Yes this is a problem. But you are also throwing out support for any other platform! I suggest you bring up these problems with VISA to your NI contacts. Feedback is important! The licensing fee for VISA is supposed to be small (we had a discussion about that here awhile ago). But the libraries can add a lot of size to an application! But then again, so does the LV runtime engine! -Scott
RE: API Serial Functions
Allen, OpenG is working on migrating from the LGPL to a Mozilla Public License derivitive. This will eliminate the relinkability requirement imposed by the LGPL. You can read more about this here: http://openg.org/tiki/tiki-view_forum_thread.php? forumId=3comments_parentId=286 Regards, -Jim Kring C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Rolf, The Open-G VISA idea sounds really interesting. I am a bit wary of open source because it seems difficult to make an installation that is a combination of open source code and proprietary code, and meet the rules for distributing open source code while still protecting the proprietary code. If you have any ideas about how to make this issue easier to deal with I would be interested in working on the Open-G VISA library. Allen -Original Message- From: Rolf Kalbermatter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:28 AM To: 'C. Allen Weekley' Cc: Info LabVIEW (E-mail) Subject: RE: API Serial Functions C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Well, I see. Just forget about my previous mail then, will you. I have started some work on a VISA32.DLL replacement which I intend to release as Open-G VISA library. It is far from complete and I have only worked on Windows yet but intend to actually push the Linux version more. It is structured similar as NI-VISA with VISA32.DLL as top level API and low level plugin DLLs which provide support for particular VISA resource types. The first I have started with is serial of course, but it is as I said not functional at all yet. I still need some common infrastructure libraries as well. I was intending to get something working before putting it out, but it is geoing slow and it will take quite some time before I get there. If you would be interested in working on that as well I could create an Open-G subproject and put up what I have so far so that you could take a look at it and work yourself on it as well. Rolf Kalbermatter CIT Engineering Nederland BVtel: +31 (070) 415 9190 Treubstraat 7H fax: +31 (070) 415 9191 2288 EG Rijswijk http://www.citengineering.com Netherlands mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
RE: API Serial Functions
Allen, I am a bit wary of open source because it seems difficult to make an installation that is a combination of open source code and proprietary code, and meet the rules for distributing open source code while still protecting the proprietary code. I forgot to plug OpenG's Development Environment Application Builder, which can be used to address this issue. It allows building LabVIEW applications (including EXEs, if you have the LV Pro. Dev. Sys.) and you can choose to segregate groups of library VIs into custom locations and optionally preserve diagrams. You can learn about an download the DEAB from here: http://openg.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Development+Environment+Applicati on+Builder There is even an example project that you can download which demonstrates the various features. And, if you are interested in working on an OpenG VISA library (or anything else), you should start by subscribing to the OpenG Toolkit Developers mailing list. We welcome your participation: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opengtoolkit-developers Regards, -Jim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Kring Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Info LabVIEW (E-mail)' Subject: RE: API Serial Functions Allen, OpenG is working on migrating from the LGPL to a Mozilla Public License derivitive. This will eliminate the relinkability requirement imposed by the LGPL. You can read more about this here: http://openg.org/tiki/tiki-view_forum_thread.php? forumId=3comments_parentId=286 Regards, -Jim Kring C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Rolf, The Open-G VISA idea sounds really interesting. I am a bit wary of open source because it seems difficult to make an installation that is a combination of open source code and proprietary code, and meet the rules for distributing open source code while still protecting the proprietary code. If you have any ideas about how to make this issue easier to deal with I would be interested in working on the Open-G VISA library. Allen -Original Message- From: Rolf Kalbermatter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:28 AM To: 'C. Allen Weekley' Cc: Info LabVIEW (E-mail) Subject: RE: API Serial Functions C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Well, I see. Just forget about my previous mail then, will you. I have started some work on a VISA32.DLL replacement which I intend to release as Open-G VISA library. It is far from complete and I have only worked on Windows yet but intend to actually push the Linux version more. It is structured similar as NI-VISA with VISA32.DLL as top level API and low level plugin DLLs which provide support for particular VISA resource types. The first I have started with is serial of course, but it is as I said not functional at all yet. I still need some common infrastructure libraries as well. I was intending to get something working before putting it out, but it is geoing slow and it will take quite some time before I get there. If you would be interested in working on that as well I could create an Open-G subproject and put up what I have so far so that you could take a look at it and work yourself on it as well. Rolf Kalbermatter CIT Engineering Nederland BVtel: +31 (070) 415 9190 Treubstraat 7H fax: +31 (070) 415 9191 2288 EG Rijswijkhttp://www.citengineering.com Netherlands mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: API Serial Functions
C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Why would you want to do that? It's a pain in the ass, will only work under Windows and be likely a lot of work before you even can start communicating with your device. On the other hand using VISA I communicate with all sorts of devices since days and years and it has always worked for me, with the additional bonus that my LabVIEW applications work under Linux just as much without rewriting or even conditional VI code. Rolf Kalbermatter CIT Engineering Nederland BVtel: +31 (070) 415 9190 Treubstraat 7H fax: +31 (070) 415 9191 2288 EG Rijswijkhttp://www.citengineering.com Netherlands mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: API Serial Functions
C. Allen Weekley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Well, I see. Just forget about my previous mail then, will you. I have started some work on a VISA32.DLL replacement which I intend to release as Open-G VISA library. It is far from complete and I have only worked on Windows yet but intend to actually push the Linux version more. It is structured similar as NI-VISA with VISA32.DLL as top level API and low level plugin DLLs which provide support for particular VISA resource types. The first I have started with is serial of course, but it is as I said not functional at all yet. I still need some common infrastructure libraries as well. I was intending to get something working before putting it out, but it is geoing slow and it will take quite some time before I get there. If you would be interested in working on that as well I could create an Open-G subproject and put up what I have so far so that you could take a look at it and work yourself on it as well. Rolf Kalbermatter CIT Engineering Nederland BVtel: +31 (070) 415 9190 Treubstraat 7H fax: +31 (070) 415 9191 2288 EG Rijswijkhttp://www.citengineering.com Netherlands mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: API Serial Functions
I am interested in having the capability (of not using VISA) for the same reasons as you. Please let me know if you are able to find a substitute for the VISA serial functions. Yes. My company manufactures a variety of instruments that communicate solely with serial. We have been using NI-VISA and are happy with it, but NI-VISA requires an installation that is often larger than the application we supply to our customers, and there are licensing restrictions for distribution. I was hoping to develop our own serial functions in a much smaller package than NI-VISA. This is why I am interested in using the Windows API. NI-VISA with its support for so many kinds of instruments seems like overkill for our application. When the customer installs the NI-VISA driver they end up installing features to support GPIB etc. that are not needed for our application. Allen Lewis Drake Process Automation Corporation Belle Mead, NJ 908 359-1011 www.processauto.com
Re: API Serial Functions
At 4:27 PM -0800 3/8/04, C. Allen Weekley wrote: Has anyone written VI's to perform serial I/O using functions in kernel32.dll? Allen, Why re-invent the wheel? Actually the people who did this are the people who wrote the VISA library. Any reason not to use their work? -Scott
