LI Evidence there is life on Mars?
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Check it out! http://www.ohmygoodness.com/cgi-bin/g-card.pl?980326KAKALGQCJKWS -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Re: law-issues-digest V1 #727-Clinton
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: I couldn't agree with you more. There are no angels here. It is everyone for themselves, IMO. The sad part about the whole thing is that it is the American people though that are going to lose. Sue Hi Sue, IMO It doesn't really matter about the truth. The Republican right wing is determined to bring down a democraric Presidency and the Democratic Party is determined to hold on to its political power at any cost,using any means. Neither side is admirable; in fact one might say each is downright despicable. And the Clintons lose all credibility and respectability from the electorate in the process. Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Question
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Doc :) Yes it is, but the way I look at this case is, he realized he was going to be found guilty due to the evidence and just decided the heck with it, mize we'll just get it over with instead of going through the trial also. At least that's my take on it. DocCec wrote: Isn't that a bit unusual, a guilty plea in a capital murder case without a pledge of non-capital punishment? Why the guilty plea at all, under such circumstances? Doc -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Wednesday Jokes
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: New words for an old tune Sung to the tune of Rawhide... Java Song Loading, loading, loading, Damn this Java coding, Feeling of forboding, Reload! The Applet says it's running, And that big grey block is stunning, But the screen remains as blank as my mind Netscape crash, Boot 'em up! Net goes down, Dial back! Logging on, Still off-line! Reload! Try it now, Still not up! Netscape crashed, What, again? Boot it up, Log it in, Reload! Tighten, tweakin', smoothen, They say the codes improvin', So how come I'm still usin' "reload"? I'm tired of all this waitin', Just give me .gif animation, This code is only good for wasting time, The applet says it's running, And grey block is quite stunning, But the screen remains as blank as my mind, (Midi solo) beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep,beep Netscape crash, Boot 'em up! Net goes down, Dial back! Logging on, Still off-line! Reload! Try it now, Still not up! Netscape crashed, What, again? Boot it up, Log it in, Reload! Reload! -- The Top 15 Things a 36 Year Old Woman Sees in a 14 Year Old Boy 16 Can't have a decent conversation about "Saved By the Bell" with anyone her own age. 15 Can get him really drunk on half a beer. 14 Shares her love of finding the perfect antique, then blowing it up with M-80s. 13 Can still pull in a paycheck when she's 75 and Social Security is down the tubes. 12 Saves money by ordering from the "Guppy's Menu" at participating Red Lobsters. 11 Goodbye, frumpy housewife. Hell, Teacher Spice!! 10 Chance to get a couple more proms under her belt. 9 Only drinks too much with the boys when they're running a lemonade stand. 8 He may someday be the President -- better get him before he gets her. 7 Too old to have cooties, too young to have an STD. 6 Not her first choice, mind you, but Mr. DiCaprio wasn't available. 5 They're the polar opposite of the Energizer Bunny, if you know what I mean. 4 Falls for that bit about her stretch marks being cool tattoos. 3 Never has to worry about him screwin' around with her Steve Miller Band 8-tracks. 2 Can grab his hair during lovemaking without a lecture on the price of Rogaine. and the Number 1 Thing a 36 Year Old Woman Sees in a 14 Year Old Boy... 1 His Erector Set. -- Proof that the gene pool is contaminated! In rural Carbon County, PA, a group of men were drinking beer and discharging firearms from the rear deck of a home owned Irving Michaels, age 27. The men were firing at a raccoon that was wandering by, but the beer apparently impaired their aim and, despite of the estimated 35 shots the group fired, the animal escaped into a 3 foot diameter drainage pipe some 100 feet away from Mr. Michaels deck. Determined to terminate the animal, Mr. Michaels retrieved a can of gasoline and poured some down the pipe, intending to smoke the animal out. After several unsuccessful attempts to ignite the fuel, Michaels emptied the entire 5 gallon fuel can down the pipe and tried to ignite it again, to no avail. Not one to admit defeat by wildlife, the determined Mr. Michaels proceeded to slide feet-first approximately 15 feet down the sloping pipe to toss the match. The subsequent rapidly expanding fireball propelled Mr. Michaels back the way he had come, though at a much higher rate of speed. He exited the angled pipe "like a Polaris missile leaves a submarine," according to witness Joseph McFadden, 31. Mr. Michaels was launched directly over his own home, right over the heads of his astonished friends, onto his front lawn. In all, he traveled over 200 feet through the air. "There was a Doppler Effect to his scream as he flew over us," McFadden reported, "Followed by a loud thud.". Amazingly, he suffered only minor injuries. "It was actually pretty cool," Michaels said, "Like when they shoot someone out of a cannon at the circus. I'd do it again if I was sure I wouldn't get hurt." "It seems I've found myself on the Voyager of the Damned." The Holodoc (Time and Again) -- Who Holds The Title A Morgan Favorite Some years ago, a New Orleans lawyer sought a direct Veterans Administration loan for a client. He was told that the loan would be approved if he could provide proof of clear title to the property offered as collateral. The title for the property in question was complicated and he spent a considerable amount of time reviewing all pertinent documents back to 1803. Satisfied with the depth and expanse of his examination, he submitted the information to the VA. He soon received a reply from the VA.: "We received your
Re: LI Re: law-issues-digest V1 #745
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: LMAO And vampires aren't weird. BG Well the one on "Forever Knight" can visit me anytime. :) Sue Hi Kathy, Wouldn't you just know that sooner or later we would have weirdos that would copy "vampires"? Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Vampire Killer
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a question, is this guy going to share a cell with another person? I certainly wouldn't want to be his cell mate. What if he decides to start chewing on the cell mate one night. Seriously are they going to keep him by himself or with another vampire person. Or maybe someone who thinks he is a warewolf. If not I suggest that his cell mate get a sun lamp. :) -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: law-issues-digest V1 #727
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Sue, IMO It doesn't really matter about the truth. The Republican right wing is determined to bring down a democraric Presidency and the Democratic Party is determined to hold on to its political power at any cost,using any means. Neither side is admirable; in fact one might say each is downright despicable. And the Clintons lose all credibility and respectability from the electorate in the process. Vi _ You wrote: I doubt that we ever will come to find out what the truth is. Besides every time this allegedly happened the only people involved in it were Clinton and the woman involved. And it is always a he said, she said type of thing,so how can anything be proed? _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Badtimes Virus :)
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: another name for this Virus is - My son Scotty (VBG) Sooz wrote: Sooz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Users: I've received this important warning from off-shore sources deep in the Caribbean. Be alert: This is REALLY bad news! -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI SK's Deal, should this be allowed?
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Serial killer Michael Ross has literally signed away his life, putting his name at the bottom of an extraordinary 10-page agreement with a prosecutor to go to his execution quietly. The pact between Ross and special prosecutor C. Robert Satti could force Connecticut a state that has not carried out the death penalty since 1960 to face an execution soon. Legal experts around the country are calling the deal unprecedented and say it has dangerous implications. A human rights group says it was the product of an "unholy alliance'' of the killer and prosecutor. Even the judge in the case has expressed reservations, holding off accepting the agreement until hearing further arguments on whether it is legal and binding. "I must say this is a unique situation. A person is entitled to waive appeals, but I don't think they're entitled to commit suicide,'' said Richard Dieter, director of the Death Penalty Information Center in Washington, D.C. Ross, a former insurance salesman and Ivy League graduate, strangled at least six girls and young women in the early 1980s. He pleaded guilty to two killings in 1985 and was convicted of four others in 1987. Later that year, he was sentenced to death. In 1994, the state Supreme Court upheld his conviction but overturned his sentence because the judge had excluded part of a psychiatric report that might have helped him escape death. A new penalty hearing was ordered. But Ross dismissed his public defenders and wrote to Satti with the idea that a new penalty hearing could be avoided altogether if they could come to some arrangement. Over the course of three years, the prosecutor and the defendant acting as his own attorney, with a court-appointed lawyer as an adviser only worked side by side to create their lethal brief. The document coldly details how he how captured and killed his victims. Most of them were raped and their bodies dumped in the woods. The contract, signed March 11, ends with the declaration that "a sentence of death will be imposed.'' Plenty of other death row inmates around the country have pleaded guilty or waived all appeals after being sentenced to die. Ross' case differs in two major respects. First, he signed an explicit contract with the prosecution that, if found to be binding, seals his fate. And second, the deal would eliminate the penalty hearing altogether. Legal experts say this appears to be improper because under Connecticut law, no one can be sentenced to death without a penalty hearing. They also object because Ross' fate unlike that of many death row inmates is far from hopeless. Under the law, Ross would be spared the death penalty if a judge or jury at the penalty hearing found just one mitigating factor, such as a history of child abuse. Ross has a psychiatric report that says he suffers from a mental illness. Stephen Bright, director of the Southern Center for Human Rights in Atlanta, called the relationship between Satti and Ross "an unholy alliance.'' "This agreement is an extraordinary document to come up with. What's different in this case is the contract with the state prosecutors and the keeping-out-evidence aspect of it,'' he said. Loyola University law professor James Carey worries that the adversarial nature of the court system has been abandoned in this case. "The process by which you would induce an accused person to appear to sign his life away I think undermines the apparent structure and neutrality of the process,'' he said. Fordham University law professor Deborah Denno said: "I think there's some sort of death wish on his part. He's taking the more egregious punishment when there's a pretty strong chance that he might not be given death.'' Ross, 38, a graduate of Cornell University with a degree in agricultural economics, denied he is suicidal and said he simply wants to spare the victims' families from having to go through another hearing. "They have been hurt enough by my actions in the past,'' he said during a hearing before Superior Court Judge Thomas Miano. "I don't want them to have to hear the awful details of how I sadistically brutalized and murdered their daughters.'' Satti refused to comment Wednesday. The judge has asked Satti and Ross to submit briefs on the legality their agreement and set a hearing for April 9. Patrick Culligan, chief of the capital defense team for the state Office of the Chief Public Defender, is trying to intervene. "Our Supreme Court has said that in Connecticut, if the death penalty is imposed, it must be the result of a reasoned moral judgment. The parties do not seem to be addressing that interest at all,'' Culligan said. "It comes down to couple of guys trying to come up with their own rules.'' -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List
LI Welcome to Kathy
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy :) Welcome to the Law list :) I am glad to see your enjoying it here :) :) If you have any problems or questions please don't hesitate to ask :) To avoid confusion I sign my name as Kathy E, so we shouldn't be mixed up :) Again Welcome and I look forward to your input :) -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Organs Must Go to Sickest First
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Finally a law that really makes sense. :) Sue Organs Must Go to Sickest First WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans are dying because of an arbitrary system for allocating scarce organs, the government said Thursday. It ordered the transplant network to give organs to the sickest patients first, even if they live across the country. ``Make no bones about it, this is about living or dying,'' Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala said. ``People are dying ... simply because of where they happen to live.'' The long-expected rules represent the government's first set of detailed guidelines for the private contractor that runs the transplant network and has often clashed with HHS officials. Emphasizing that it is not making medical judgments, Shalala's agency is ordering the United Network for Organ Sharing to come up within five months with a new plan for allocating livers. The new system must give priority to the sickest patients rather than to those who live close to the donor. Network officials, who strongly oppose changes, responded that the HHS plan would save fewer lives, warning that smaller centers may close because organs would be diverted to large centers in other parts of the country. Less controversially, the rules direct the network to establish standard criteria for putting people on waiting lists and classifying medical statuses. They also order the network to release up-to-date information about waiting times, survival rates and other performance indicators for individual transplant programs, which the network always has refused to do. That should help patients make informed decisions about where to go for transplants, Health and Human Services said. The allocation system now in place offers donated organs first to hospitals in the local area, then regionally, then nationally. Patients are ranked by medical need within the local or regional area, but an organ is offered to a relatively healthy local patient before being sent to a sicker candidate across the country. The system has helped create widely varying waiting times around the country, with patients in some regions waiting five times as long for a transplant. The United Network for Organ Sharing argues that the geographic system saves more lives because healthier patients have better chances to survive transplant surgery. Yet Dr. William Pfaff, the network's president-elect and former head of transplant surgery at the University of Florida, conceded the system already favors the sickest patients within communities and regions. He also said that, given a choice between providing an organ to two patients in adjoining rooms, he would choose the sicker one. He complained that under the new system, all organs would go to the sickest patients, meaning patients won't have a realistic chance for transplant until they become very sick. ``Everybody deserves a chance,'' he said. The geographic system is supported by the many small centers that depend on a ready supply of locally donated organs, particularly livers. Because many more small centers are in operation than large ones, they have controlled the network's policies. Already, the network is planning lobbying campaigns in Congress to overturn the new plan. It has urged hospitals to warn their communities that the new system could shut down their program. Some have suggested fighting the rules in court, but Pfaff said he does not know if that will be considered. Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., a transplant surgeon opposed to the national system concept, said Thursday he will hold a hearing on the new rules. Health and Human Services left open the possibility that it could change the rule, offering a 60-day comment period. Officials have already spent more than three years listening to various arguments. The rules are backed by large transplant programs led by the University of Pittsburgh, which serves sicker patients and would benefit from a national system. Being published next week, the rules affect all organs.
LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a bizarre discovery in the late Vincent Foster's attic, Whitewater prosecutors have landed a second set of Hillary Rodham Clinton's once-elusive law firm billing records, lawyers said Thursday. The records have fewer handwritten notations and fewer pages but generally contain the same information as the set belatedly found in the White House in 1996, the lawyers said. Nonetheless, the documents have become a fresh line of inquiry for grand jury questioning in Arkansas, where prosecutors are pressing to wrap up their investigation of the first lady's legal work for a failed savings and loan owned by her Whitewater business partner. ``You're sitting in the grand jury and the prosecutors read you an entry about Mrs. Clinton from one set of billing records, question you about it, then they pick up the other set and read other entries about other meetings,'' said one recent grand jury witness who spoke only on condition of anonymity. Prosecutors are trying to determine if Mrs. Clinton, while a private Arkansas attorney, assisted a series of fraudulent SL land transactions in the mid-1980s carried out by her business partner, the late James McDougal. They're also investigating whether she lied about her work under oath or tried to conceal documents in the Whitewater investigation that was begun during her husband's presidency. On Thursday, Mrs. Clinton's private lawyer described the second set of billing records, which were found last summer by Foster's widow, Lisa, in the attic of their Arkansas home. ``These Rose Law Firm billing records for Madison Guaranty Savings Loan, which were discovered by Mrs. Foster at her home in July of 1997, are virtually identical to the records produced by me'' to Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr, attorney David Kendall said. ``There are a few additional handwritten notations, and fifteen additional pages, in the set produced two years ago,'' Kendall said. Starr's office and Foster's lawyer, James Hamilton, declined comment. Foster and former Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell were partners with Mrs. Clinton at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock. They directed the firm to print the billing records in 1992 when questions about Whitewater arose during Clinton's first presidential campaign. But when prosecutors subpoenaed them later on, the records had mysteriously disappeared. In January 1996, more than two years after they had been first subpoenaed, the records were turned over after a presidential secretary found them on a table in the White House living quarters. The 100-plus pages of billing records outline Mrs. Clinton's legal work for McDougal's Madison Guaranty SL, including more than a dozen meetings with Hubbell's father-in-law, Seth Ward, an SL employee who was paid more than $300,000 in disputed commissions. The first lady and Ward say they recall nothing of the meetings. Hubbell has testified that Foster was the last one he saw handling the billing records. Last July, Lisa Foster was going through some stored belongings in her attic when she pulled a set of Mrs. Clinton's billing records from a briefcase used by her late husband just before his 1993 suicide. The briefcase also included correspondence from The New York Times seeking answers to questions about Whitewater, sources familiar with the briefcase's contents say. Mrs. Foster turned the briefcase and the materials over to her lawyer, who provided them to Starr. In court arguments a year ago, prosecutors identified Mrs. Clinton as someone who could be indicted and alleged that her account to investigators in the Whitewater investigation had changed over time. Among the things they are investigating is whether she was involved in the disappearance of the billing records. Federal bank examiners have previously reported Mrs. Clinton created a document in 1986 involving one of McDougal's most controversial land deals, Castle Grande, that was used by his SL to deceive federal regulators.
LI Starr Focuses on Lewinsky Transfer
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Starr Focuses on Lewinsky Transfer WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House personnel chief testified before a federal grand jury Thursday, signaling a strong focus by Whitewater prosecutors on Monica Lewinsky's administration jobs -- including her transfer to the Pentagon. Marsha Scott appeared for a second time in a week before the grand jurors, who have heard from a half-dozen witnesses who played roles in Ms. Lewinsky's White House work prior to her April 1996 reassignment to the Defense Department. After Ms. Scott finished testifying, the president's chief of Oval Office operations, Nancy Hernreich, made her second appearance at the courthouse. She sees virtually everyone who enters the president's office. The testimony of witnesses familiar with Ms. Lewinsky's role could be valuable to prosecutors, even if the staffers were unaware of a Clinton-Lewinsky sexual relationship. They might be able to shed light on Ms. Lewinsky's frequent appearances around the Oval Office despite her low-level tasks -- a possible factor in her transfer. Ms. Lewinsky told a friend that she had a sexual affair with Clinton and he asked her to lie about it, contradicting her affidavit in the Paula Jones case denying a sexual relationship. The president has said there was no affair or suggestion that she lie. Those who previously testified included: --Former White House deputy chief of staff Evelyn Lieberman. Current and former White House officials have said that she wanted Ms. Lewinsky transferred because of ``inappropriate and immature behavior.'' --Timothy Keating, who hired Ms. Lewinsky in the legislative correspondence section when her internship ended. He said after testifying that Ms. Lewinsky was ``transferred because of dissatisfaction with her performance ... .'' --Patsy Thomasson, who was a White House personnel official. She said after her testimony that she gave the grand jury ``the facts about her placement at the Pentagon.'' --Jodie Torkelson, who also was a personnel aide. Her lawyer said after she testified Wednesday that she was asked about an e-mail memo she wrote in 1966. She asked in the memo that she be notified if Ms. Lewinsky sought another White House job. --Jocelyn Jolley, who was Ms. Lewinsky's direct supervisor in the legislative affairs office. Ms. Jolley was transferred out of the office the same day as Ms. Lewinsky. Ms. Scott has known Clinton from his days as Arkansas governor, and an incident in his deposition in the Jones case indicates she's a confidante of the president. As Clinton related the incident, he was attending a high school reunion in Arkansas in 1994 and got into a conversation with an old friend, Dolly Kyle Browning. According to the president, Ms. Browning was angry that he had not called her back in 1992 when she was concerned that a tabloid was going to run a story about her. The president said she began a jealous tirade about how unhappy she was that she had never had a sexual relationship with Clinton and threatened to sell a book claiming they did. Clinton said he asked Ms. Scott ``to listen to the conversation when it started, and she stood very close so she could hear everything, and then as soon as the conversation was over, I asked her if she had heard it...' The president said he later made notes of the conversation and asked Ms. Scott if they were consistent with her memory ``and she said `Yes, except I think that the conversation went on a little longer than you said ...''' Clinton testified he put the notes in a file folder, which went in a briefcase that was stored under his desk. Ms. Browning, a Dallas real estate attorney who gave a deposition in the Jones case, has said she had a long affair with Clinton and accused him of lying in his deposition. She said that at no time was Ms. Scott listening to the conversation, although a woman with blond hair (Ms. Scott is a blond) did interrupt their conversation twice to ask Clinton to end the conversation, which he did not do.
Re: LI DEATH PENALTY--The quality of justice
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Short note Ed will unable to answer this until he comes back to the
list, if you would like to hold it for him and forward it to him when he
returns I'm sure he would have no problem with it :)
dr. ldmf [ph.d, j.d.] wrote:
"dr. ldmf [ph.d, j.d.]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Sue - I think we had better bring our expert in on this one. And he
is a California lad also. Calling Ed, Calling Ed...! from a general
perspective though, and not having read anything about the case except
what's here:
[1] Before the jury convenes to reach a verdict, at the end of all
arguments, a 'side' can make a Motion for what's called usually "a
Directed Verdict." This creates and preserves the right to make another
Motion after the verdict, called a JNOV ("Judgement notwithstanding the
verdict" (rejecting the Verdict), and if granted the Judge does do a
JNOV.
[2] After a verdict a judge can decide that in the "Interest of Justice"
he must set aside the jury verdict because it does not in his Opinion
reflect the evidence presented. Then he would issue his own ruling.
[3] Other. g
Ed and others, check me out above because I am spontaenously typing from
memory and need the generalities checked; but as far as this case, I
don't know how the procedures went or California Law on this point.
Do we have a link to California Criminal Code, or Civil Code? :) LDMF.
---Sue Hartigan wrote:
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Dr. L.:
I posted that article for Bill. But now that I read it, it is very sad
and confusing to me.
How can a judge give the DP in a case by himself. I don't think that is
allowed in California.
And if the new antiterrorism law hasn't gone through all the channels,
how can they apply it.
I really don't understand this. Can you please explain it to me?
Sue
Hi Sue - this seems a very touching situation; one hopes someone will
review it while there is still time to do so. I know the arguments for
proceeding are many because all the intertwining laws and sub-texts add
up to execution, it seems, and not grandfathering in those with dealth
penalties of a prior date; but if technicalities always prevail, we will
have a total triumph of 'form over substance.' This post is not
regarding the merits, but the system. :) LDMF.
Posted for Bill:
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
DEATH PENALTY
About the time Missourians are drifting off the sleep tonight, the
executioner
is scheduled to administer a lethal injection to Milton Griffin-El. His
death
should trouble our sleep.
Many will be satisfied by his execution. There's no doubt that
Griffin-El and
Antoine Owens killed Jerome Redden and his girlfriend, Loretta Trotter,
on
Aug. 15, 1986. There's no doubt it was a brutal attack in the apartment
above the Redden family cleaning establishment on St. Louis Avenue.
There's
no doubt that the murder had tragic consequences quite beyond the
victims
who were stabbed and bludgeoned to death. Mr. Redden and Ms. Trotter's
4-month-old son, Germaine, was found crying near the bodies and
eventually
was put up for adoption.
Rosie Redden, Mr. Redden's mother, sees the execution as simple justice:
"He took two lives for a robbery. He deserves to die."
So what is there to trouble us?
The trouble lies in what the case says about the quality of justice as a
new
federal law begins to limit death row appeals. The case also illustrates
other
problems with the death penalty:
* Griffin-El was sentenced to death while Owens got life sentences for
stabbing both Ms. Trotter and Mr. Redden. Hence the arbitrariness of the
death penalty.
* Griffin-El was convicted by a jury from which the prosecutor had
struck six
African-Americans - a common prosecutorial practice in the 1980s and a
reason the death penalty has been stacked against blacks.
* The jury deadlocked on the death sentence at 10-2 in favor. Under a
new
state law, Griffin-El became the first Missourian to be sentenced to
death by
a judge acting alone - a lonely exercise of discretion for a public
official who
can pay for it in the next election.
* Griffin-El will be the first of the 30 men put to death in Missouri
who did
not have a chance at a full hearing before the federal appeals court.
The reason that Griffin-El hasn't received that last hearing is that
Congress
passed the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act in 1996 to cut
back on the appeals of death-row inmates.
Understandably, people are frustrated by the decades-long appeals
process.
But, when the ultimate judgment of death is involved, there can be no
mistakes. A vivid example of the importance of careful appeals is
Illinois
where nine men who were sentenced to die in recent years have
Re: LI Hillary May Get Executive Privilege
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Kathy, I don't think it's political suicide to invoke EP per se. Certainly many presidents in the past have invoked it, including George Washington. The big problem here is that it is unclear why the specific conversations with the president would be covered by EP. That will be up to the lawyers to decide in their motions to the court. IMO, this will simply add a lot of time to the process and perhaps that is the main motive in exercising this privilege. But so far we don't know if he has even asked for EP. Bill On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:41:26 -0500 Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: She can't be forced to testify against him in a criminal trial, I don't think the same applies in a civil trial. Also that law is not enforce in all states anymore about testifying against a spouse. If he tries to claim executive privilege he can say good-bye to an sort of public life after his presidency is over, and possibly to the presidency its self, it's political suicide to claim EP. Also there is no way that Hillary should qualify under this at all. Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a question about this that perhaps someone on here can answer..Why would Hillary need executive privilege, she cannot be forced to testify against her husband. Sue WASHINGTON (AP) -- Legal scholars voiced skepticism and critics saw Nixonian abuses Tuesday in the White House effort to use executive privilege to shield aides from questions about conversations with Hillary Rodham Clinton. -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Court looks again at sexual harassment
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: WASHINGTON, March 25 (UPI) _ The Supreme Court is taking a long look at sexual harassment, with the justices preparing to hear back-to-back arguments in cases involving lifeguards in Boca Raton, Fla., and a teacher and student in a Texas school district. In fact, sexual harassment has become something of a theme this term. The justices ruled March 4, in a male-on-male case out of Louisiana, that victims may sue for workplace sexual harassment under federal civil rights law, even when their alleged harassers are of the same gender. In the Boca Raton case being heard today _ which examines the standards under which an employer can be held liable _ a woman lifeguard sued the city for alleged sexual harassment by her supervisors. A federal appeals court eventually ruled the city was not responsible. In the Texas case, a male teacher in the Lago Vista School District in Travis County allegedly began a sexual affair with a 15-year-old girl student. Court records say a police officer discovered the two having sex in 1993. The teacher was fired and the state revoked his teaching license. But the girl and her mother sued the school district under Title IX of the Education Act, which bars sexual discrimination, and by extension, sexual harassment. A federal appeals court eventually ruled that school districts are not liable for sexual harassment unless supervisors know about it and do nothing to stop it. Decisions in both of the cases should come before the court recesses for the summer in late June or early July. (No. 97-282, Faragher vs. Boca Raton; and No. 96-1866, Gebser et al vs. Lago Vista) _- -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Former Springer Guest Re-Arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Former Springer Guest Re-Arrested GENEVA, N.Y. (AP) -- A woman who revealed on ``The Jerry Springer Show'' that she had sex with a 16-year-old boy has been arrested for seeing him again. Dawn Marie Eaves, 24, had been under court order not to have any more contact with the teen-ager. She was charged Wednesday with criminal contempt after police spotted them together in downtown Geneva. Eaves was originally sentenced to five years' probation after she pleaded guilty to having sex with the boy. That charge followed her October appearance on the television talk show with the boy and Michael Griffith, who is the father of one of her children. On the show, Griffith confronted Eaves about her relationship with the 16-year-old. The pair had an argument, which led to a fistfight between Griffith and various guests. The television appearance prompted an investigation and a third-degree rape charge. Eaves was in jail today in lieu of $2,000 bail. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Surveys of Scientists On Polygraphs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is extracted from the footnotes of the amicus curiae brief supporting use of polygraphs in court. I made a stupid blunder in writing the Supreme Court had made its decision. For those who think Dr. Lykkens, the best known opponent of polygraphs, is a prophet they might be interested in another view: 19.The Gallup Organization, Survey of the members of the Society for Psychophysiological Research concerning their opinions of polygraph test interpretations... [-] 20.Respondents in both surveys gave responses to the following question: Which one of these four statements best describes your own opinion of polygraph test interpretations by those who have received systematic training in the technique, when they are called upon to interpret whether a subject is or is not telling the truth? A) It is a sufficiently reliable method to be the sole determinant, B) It is a useful diagnostic tool when considered with other available information, C) It is questionable usefulness, entitled to little weight against other available information, D) It is of no usefulness. [These footnotes supported the statement that polygraphs are accepted by appropriate scientists. But here is a third:] 21.There has recently been a third survey of the members of the SPR. That survey was reported by William Iacono and David Lykken of the University of Minnesota, The Scientific Status of Research on Polygraph Techniques: The Case Against Polygraph Tests, in MODERN SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE: THE LAW AND SCIENCE OF EXPERT TESTIMONY, D. L. Faigman, D. Kaye, M. J. Saks, J. Sanders (Eds. in press). Drs. Iacono and Lykken are two of the most outspoken critics of polygraph testing. However, at present there are reasons to believe that the Iacono and Lykken survey is so flawed and at this time so controversial that it cannot be used for any substantive purpose. Problems with the Iacono and Lykken study include: 1) The cover letter for the Iacono and Lykken survey sets the survey in the context of the legal admissibility of the polygraph in court, rather than about the scientific acceptance and validity of the technique. In effect this is asking the respondents to make a political and legal judgment rather than a scientific one. This is in clear contrast the Amato survey (Supra note 19) which was set in the context of whether or not the Society for Psychophysiological Research should have a formal scientific policy regarding the validity of polygraph testing. The context of the Iacono and Lykken survey is clearly inappropriate since few, if any, of the members of the SPR have the legal background to make an admissibility assessment. 2) The sample of respondents to the Iacono and Lykken survey describe themselves as very uninformed about the topic of polygraph examinations. When asked, "About how many empirical studies, literature reviews, commentaries, or presentations at scientific meetings dealing with the validity of the CQT have you read or attended?" the average respondent replied 2.6, with a standard deviation of 1.5. This means that 83% of the respondents had read or attended fewer than 4.1 papers or presentations on polygraph. Moreover, fewer than 2% of the respondents had read more than 5.6 articles. Given the large number of scientific articles and presentations on this topic (Dr. Charles Honts has either authored or co-authored over 100 such papers and presentations by himself, many of which were given at the Society for Psychophysiological Research meetings), these data provide a strong indication that the Iacono and Lykken sample was, as a whole, highly uninformed about the polygraph, and thus has little to offer in terms of informed opinion about its scientific validity. 3) There is one known anomaly in the Iacono and Lykken data analysis that makes it impossible to compare some of their results to the other surveys in any meaningful way. In determining their highly informed group, Iacono and Lykken cut the distribution at 4 and above on their 7-point scale. In forming their highly informed group, Amato and Honts cut the distribution at 5 and above. This difference in cutting scores makes it impossible to compare these results across the two surveys. Iacono and Lykken's choice of a cutting point almost certainly reduced the confidence estimate by their highly informed subjects. 4) In their chapter in the Faigman et al. book, supra, Iacono and Lykken represent their survey as a random survey. However, Iacono recently admitted under cross-examination (U. S. v. Fergerson) that the Iacono and Lykken survey was in fact not based on a random sample. Drs. Raskin, Honts, and Kircher were deliberately left out of the sampling frame and thus did not have an opportunity to review, respond, or be represented in the survey. 5)
LI Ark. Boys May Face Federal Charges
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ark. Boys May Face Federal Charges WASHINGTON (AP) -- The two boys arrested in the Arkansas school shooting could be charged as juveniles under federal law and officials were studying whether the older one could be tried as an adult, Attorney General Janet Reno said Thursday. Whether the 11-year-old or the 13-year-old now in custody for the Jonesboro shootings ends up facing federal rather than state charges will depend on which system provides the heaviest penalties. The question arose in part because Arkansas law forbids trying children 13 and under as adults; federal law allows adult trials for defendants as young as 13. ``What we're doing is going through all the various federal statutes to see what might be effective,'' Reno told her weekly news conference. ``At this point, ... both (juveniles) ... could be charged under certain federal crimes as juveniles.'' Reno and her aides said the questions remaining were: --Whether the 13-year-old could be tried as an adult in federal court. --Whether a federal juvenile prosecution was more likely than an Arkansas prosecution to allow the boys, if convicted, to be incarcerated until age 21 rather than just age 18. Although Arkansas law lets youths convicted under state juvenile law be held up to age 21, no one has ever been held past age 18, the state's legal age of adulthood. The reason is that Arkansas law requires that 18-to-21-year-olds convicted as juveniles cannot be housed in juvenile facilities, and, in adult prisons, must be separated from adult inmates. However, the state has no adult prison with such separate facilities. Federal juvenile law allows detention up to age 21 if the sentence lasts that long. Officials of the Justice Department's criminal division were conferring with U.S. Attorney Paula Casey in Arkansas and Arkansas officials over whether there would be any advantage to bringing federal charges, Reno said. Reno's deputy chief of staff Kent Markus said officials were trying to see if any federal statutes that allow adult trials of juveniles were applicable in this case. Federal law allows 13-year-olds but not 11-year-olds to be prosecuted as adults but only under very limited circumstances, Markus said. Those circumstances include certain violent federal offenses but not the law that makes it a federal crime for a juvenile to merely possess a handgun, he added. Four students and a teacher were slain Tuesday at Jonesboro's middle school, but murder is a federal crime only when committed on Indian reservations, in federal parks or on other federal property or against a federal law enforcement officer or very high-ranking federal official. Federal civil rights statutes can only be used in murder cases when the crime was committed because of race or national origin of the victims or by a law enforcement officer. Last year, a proposal to allow adults trials of youths as young as 12 failed to pass the Arkansas legislature. Gov. Mike Huckabee and state legislators this week called for readdressing the issue. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
"Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue - here's one of those paragraphs, snipped from your post, which could keep a bunch of people busy a bunch of years diagramming all the possible (or reasonably posited) states of mind depicted. Did she assist? If so, did she knowingly assist? If she lied, was it a conscious lie or was she passing on a lie? If she concealed, etc. etc. etc. Here come the experts on 'putative mental states' and 'psychology of thought'! Stretching the controversy a bit? Can't help it, I was bitten by the *Law//Issues online forum bug*. :) LDMF. -Sue Hartigan wrote in pertpart: :- Prosecutors are trying to determine if Mrs. Clinton, while a private Arkansas attorney, assisted a series of fraudulent SL land transactions in the mid-1980s carried out by her business partner, the late James McDougal. They're also investigating whether she lied about her work under oath or tried to conceal documents in the Whitewater investigation that was begun during her husband's presidency. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Mrs. Marcos Says Family Has $800M
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Talk about buying the presidency. LOL Mrs. Marcos Says Family Has $800M MANILA, Philippines (AP) -- Imelda Marcos claimed Thursday to have more than $800 million stashed away in foreign banks, all of which she promised to give to poor Filipinos if she is elected president. ``If you know how rich you are, you are not rich,'' the widow of dictator Ferdinand Marcos said. ``But me, I am not aware of the extent of my wealth. That's how rich we are.'' It is the first time Mrs. Marcos has publicly admitted her family has more wealth than that discovered by the government since Marcos was ousted in a popular revolt in 1986. Marcos died in 1989, accused of plundering about $10 billion from the national treasury during his 20-year rule. He never admitted any wrongdoing. Mrs. Marcos said the $800 million does not include $540 million the government has discovered her husband had in various accounts in two Swiss banks. ``There is more Marcos wealth that this government is not yet aware of, but for the time being, I can admit that there is only $800 million kept in various international banks, but I cannot reveal them,'' Mrs. Marcos told a press forum in Manila. Mrs. Marcos, who is trailing in a field of nine major candidates in May's presidential election, promised to distribute the money to poor communities. Magtanggol Gunigundo, chairman of the Presidential Commission on Good Government, in charge of recovering the Marcos wealth, welcomed her admission. ``That is good, so that we can embark on another case of forfeiture and confiscation,'' Gunigundo said. But while he said he believes the Marcoses do have undisclosed assets -- how much he would not say -- he also cautioned that Mrs. Marcos' statement must also be seen in the light of the presidential campaign. ``I believe she is saying this in order to titillate the people to vote for her,'' he said. Mrs. Marcos ran unsuccessfully in the 1992 election and won a seat in the House of Representatives in 1995. In December and January, the Swiss Supreme Court ordered that the $540 million be transferred to an escrow account in the Philippines. The court stipulated that the Philippine government will get the money only if it proves Mrs. Marcos obtained it illegally. So far, Mrs. Marcos has been convicted only on unrelated corruption charges. She was sentenced to nine to 12 years in prison but is free on bond pending an appeal. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Navy Ordered To Reinstate Officer
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Navy Ordered To Reinstate Officer WASHINGTON (AP) -- A federal judge told the Navy on Thursday to comply with his order reinstating a chief petty officer who successfully fought dismissal from the military over allegations of homosexuality. U.S. District Court Judge Stanley Sporkin said the Navy should return Timothy R. McVeigh to his old status as the top enlisted man on a nuclear attack submarine rather than give him only clerical jobs. Setting a June 1 hearing, Sporkin gave the Navy two months to comply with his January order in the case in which he said the Navy wrongly enforced the Pentagon's ``don't ask, don't tell'' policy on gays in the military. Christopher Wolf, McVeigh's attorney, accused the Navy of ``dragging its feet'' and purposely keeping the decorated 17-year veteran from returning to his former duties that would let him advance his career. ``He used to be in the chief of boat position,'' Wolf said after the court hearing Thursday. In that job, McVeigh managed the day-to-day activities of a nuclear attack submarine, the USS Chicago. ``And now he's stuck with clerical duties.'' Justice Department attorney David Glass, representing the government, told the judge one chief of boat position had opened up recently, but McVeigh wasn't deemed the best candidate. The judge ordered the Navy to justify its decision by May 1. Glass refused to comment after the court hearing. Joe Krovisky, a Justice spokesman, said the government intends to fully reinstate McVeigh. ``He just didn't qualify for this particular chief of boat position,'' Krovisky said. ``The Navy felt someone else would do a better job.'' McVeigh, who is not related to the Oklahoma City bomber, was dismissed in December on charges he is homosexual and engaged in sodomy. The 36-year-old, stationed at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, has not commented on his sexuality. Pentagon policy allows dismissal of someone who discloses he's gay, but the military cannot raise the issue without sufficient cause. Sporkin said the Navy went too far in investigating McVeigh, who was linked to an anonymous America Online Inc. computer profile page that suggested he had a sexual interest in young men. The judge also said the Navy violated the 1986 Electronic Communications Privacy Act by obtaining confidential information about McVeigh from AOL without a warrant or court order. The Navy is appealing, while McVeigh is pursuing a lawsuit against the military, seeking unspecified damages. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
"Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: :) Hi Terry - How did WB know that he was naive? This sentence is false. Cheers! :)LDMF [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:-- Well now, Linda, when William F. Buckley was sued for fraud in the operation of a family business many years ago he testified that he was too naive to know what was going on. The jury naturally bought his protestations of ignorance as any jury would Hillary's. The answer though to all the deep philosophical questions is yes. I refuse to believe Hillary is an idiot like her supporters believe. "Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D." [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue - here's one of those paragraphs, snipped from your post, which could keep a bunch of people busy a bunch of years diagramming all the possible (or reasonably posited) states of mind depicted. Did she assist? If so, did she knowingly assist? If she lied, was it a conscious lie or was she passing on a lie? If she concealed, etc. etc. etc. Here come the experts on 'putative mental states' and 'psychology of thought'! Stretching the controversy a bit? Can't help it, I was bitten by the *Law//Issues online forum bug*. :) LDMF. -Sue Hartigan wrote in pertpart: :- Prosecutors are trying to determine if Mrs. Clinton, while a private Arkansas attorney, assisted a series of fraudulent SL land transactions in the mid-1980s carried out by her business partner, the late James McDougal. They're also investigating whether she lied about her work under oath or tried to conceal documents in the Whitewater investigation that was begun during her husband's presidency. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Twins died of SIDS
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue, To say the least this is a confusing case, yet interesting. I personally don't think a majority of the cases are homicides, I do think that some that were classified as SIDS were homicides though, the evidence has shown us that. The one thing I was wondering and the article didn't say it was did she have proper prenatal care? Did she carry the twins full term or were they preemies? If they were preemies I can easily understand them dying, since most preemies have respiratory problems. My nephews who were preemies did, yet they were born at 27 weeks, and had a lot of problems. I can't help but agree this is very rare they would both die of Sids especially at the same time. Yet it does look like that is what happened. Sometimes there just isn't any easy answer and sometimes there will never be an answer to the questions that are raised. This looks like it might be one of them. Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I honestly don't know what to think about this...Sue -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L.: I think that Hillary Clinton is a very, very intelligent woman, and she knows exactly what she is saying or not saying when it comes to "knowing" something. Reagan played the same game during Iran Contra. I could never figure out during that one how all the things that were going on around him could possibly happen without him knowing what what going on. But he said he didn't. :) I don't think she is lying anymore than Reagan was, they just aren't telling the truth. All of it anyway. Sue Hi Sue - here's one of those paragraphs, snipped from your post, which could keep a bunch of people busy a bunch of years diagramming all the possible (or reasonably posited) states of mind depicted. Did she assist? If so, did she knowingly assist? If she lied, was it a conscious lie or was she passing on a lie? If she concealed, etc. etc. etc. Here come the experts on 'putative mental states' and 'psychology of thought'! Stretching the controversy a bit? Can't help it, I was bitten by the *Law//Issues online forum bug*. :) LDMF. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: I don't think anyone thinks that Hillary Clinton is an idiot. I really don't. And I am not one of her supporters. But how do you prove a person knows or doesn't know something. How can anyone prove that Reagan knew what was going on during Iran/Contra. Common sense says that he did, but how can one prove it. Sue Well now, Linda, when William F. Buckley was sued for fraud in the operation of a family business many years ago he testified that he was too naive to know what was going on. The jury naturally bought his protestations of ignorance as any jury would Hillary's. The answer though to all the deep philosophical questions is yes. I refuse to believe Hillary is an idiot like her supporters believe. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Twins died of SIDS
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy: I don't know what to think. I just can't believe that there wasn't some outside reason why these two babies died at the same time. The article says it was a poor neighborhood, leaking gas (ruled out), no heat, filthy living conditions, lack of food, ??? Maybe they had some kind of virus such as meningitis, something. You are right though sometimes there just isn't any answer. :((( Sue Hi Sue, To say the least this is a confusing case, yet interesting. I personally don't think a majority of the cases are homicides, I do think that some that were classified as SIDS were homicides though, the evidence has shown us that. The one thing I was wondering and the article didn't say it was did she have proper prenatal care? Did she carry the twins full term or were they preemies? If they were preemies I can easily understand them dying, since most preemies have respiratory problems. My nephews who were preemies did, yet they were born at 27 weeks, and had a lot of problems. I can't help but agree this is very rare they would both die of Sids especially at the same time. Yet it does look like that is what happened. Sometimes there just isn't any easy answer and sometimes there will never be an answer to the questions that are raised. This looks like it might be one of them. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI COTD: Pennsylvania Unsolved murders
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a period of seven months, between November 1976 and June 1977, five young women were raped and murdered within a 25-mile radius of Washington, Pennsylvania, their killer striking with impunity and leaving homicide investigators at a loss for clues. Despite a fair description of the suspect, published in the form of artist's sketches, there were no arrests, and none are now anticipated in a case that terrorized the peaceful border region, holding women prisoners of fear inside their homes. The first to die was 21-year-old Susan Rush, a native of Washington County, found strangled and locked in the trunk of her car on November 25, 1976. Detectives noted that her body had been "hastily clothed," her bra and panties left on the front seat, and a post mortem examination confirmed that the victim was raped prior to death. On February 13, 1977, 16-year-old Mary Gency was reported missing from her home in North Charleroi. She had gone out for a walk after supper and never returned, her body recovered three days later from the woods at Fallowfield Township. Gency was beaten to death with a blunt instrument, raped before death by an assailant the county coroner described as "a mad animal." Debra Capiola, 17, was last seen alive on March 17, walking to meet her school bus in nearby Imperial, in Allegheny County. She never arrived at school, and searchers found her body in a wooded section of northwestern Washington County on March 22. Capiola had been raped before she was strangled with her own blue jeans, the pants left wrapped around her neck. Two months later, on the afternoon of May 19, 18-year-old Brenda Ritter was found dead at South Strabane Township, in Washington County. Nude except for shoes and stockings, she had been raped, then strangled with a piece of her own clothing, tightened around her throat with a stick. In June, the killer strayed from Pennsylvania, but he did not travel far. His final victim was Roberta Elam, 26, a novice at Mount St. Joseph Mother House, in Oglebay Park, West Virginia, near Wheeling. Preparing to take her vows as a nun, Elam's career was cut short by the savage who raped and strangled her on June 13, dumping her corpse within 75 yards of the convent. On the afternoon of June 15, authorities released a sketch of a longhaired suspect seen near the Ritter homicide scene, but none of the resultant tips proved fruitful. When the murder series ended, as mysteriously as it had begun, police could only speculate about the strangler's identity and whereabouts. Unless deceased or jailed on unrelated charges, he is still at large today. -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Vampire Killer
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy: ROTFLMAO How gross. BG It is funny though. But I do tend to have a sick sense of humor. I certainly hope he at least cooked the guy a little bit, don't want to get Samonella. :( I wonder if you could get Samonella from eating raw people meat. (geeze the things that can go through ones mind) Reminds me of the "Silence of the Lambs" movie. :) What do they do with these people anyway. I know I certainly wouldn't be getting any sleep if I was stuck in a cell with one of them. Sue LOL Sue you just reminded me of a SK in Russia, the jailers weren't to smart, this man was convicted of being a SK and he liked to eat his victims, so what did they do? They gave him a roomy in jail! LOL Needles to say after an argument when the jailers went to check on the inmates there was only part of one left. They then learned NOT to put a room mate in with that SK. You would have thought common sense told them not to put someone in with him. I can't remember the man's name right now, plus Russian names are a bit hard to remember. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How can anyone prove that Reagan knew what was going on during Iran/Contra. Common sense says that he did, but how can one proveit. Someone will have to refresh my age-debilitated memory for a name but Reagan's onetime Budget Director, the fellow Reagan took to the woodshed for spilling the beans, wrote a fascinating book about Reagan. He was worried about the budget deficit and made an appointment with Reagan. The conversation went this way. BUDGET DIRECTOR: I am worried about the budge deficit. REAGAN: I am too. BUDGET DIRECTOR: Our defense expenditures are rising rapidly. REAGAN: We need a strong defense. BUDGET DIRECTOR: And we are cutting taxes. REAGAN: That's good. BUDGET DIRECTOR: And our deficit is getting worse. REAGAN: I am against deficits. BUDGET DIRECTOR: But then you see our defense costs are going up. REAGAN: I have always been for a strong defense. BUDGET DIRECTOR: And our tax revenues are declining. REAGAN: That's good. BUDGET DIRECTOR: But our budget deficit... REAGAN: I have always been against deficits. Yeah, Sue, Reagan is believable when he says he didn't know what was going on. He never did. The only time he really got upset was when he found the number of his new address was 666. He managed to get it changed to 665 1/2 to save himself and Nancy from the Great Satan. Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Re: Update Ruthann Aron trial
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Uh oh not a good sign. BTW wait till you see what happened today in the Massacre trial. I was completely flabbergasted! To put it easily you know how people who don't watch court trials tend to think court is like Perry Mason, yet reality is much different? Well today this case WAS like Perry mason! Rico found out he wasn't as smart as he thought he was LOL He did keep from blurting out a confession though I wasn't going to be surprised if he did that after everything else that happened today! Highly entertaining end of the trial today! I will elaborate more in the summary :) DocCec wrote: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jury's been out two days, and has said at least once that they don't think they can reacy a unanimous verdict. Doc Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jim McDougal
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue I think the commentators have point out an important reason why. Clinton has been put in the same category as a celebrity and we don't expect as much in morality from celebrities, they suggested. The other thing they mentioned that Hillary has helped him tremendously by staunching defending him. They felt that many then felt if she could forgive him, why not the rest of us if he had done those things. Something to think about I would think. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: But you know what...right now it seems that it is the women who are behind Clinton. I bet if the same situation was going on only it was Hillary in Clintons position, everyone of these same women would be yelling to have her ousted. You think? Sue Hi Sue You bring up a good point about the reversal if it were Hillary. The reaction might be even more 'down and dirty,' though jackief -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Senator proposes child-gun bill
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looks like California is a head of the federal government. We already have such a law. :) And it is working. :))) Sue WASHINGTON, March 26 (UPI) _ In response to a schoolyard attack in Arkansas by heavily armed 11- and 13-year-old kids, Sen. Dick Durbin, D- Ill., says (Thursday) he will introduce legislation that would punish adults who fail to properly store firearms away from children. The boys, accused of killing four female students and a teacher, and shooting 11 others, apparently took the weapons from their own homes. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI I'm bewildered! I'm Shocked! In reality I'm fed up with the BS
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue LOL How about a percentage of what I get?? jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: Being your expert witness, it is my opinion that Ed would have a lawsuit. You too since you both have suffered irreparable harm and agony. LOL I base this all on my newfound knowledge. :) Now can we talk about my fee? BEG Sue Hi Sue Was this spread (no pun intended) before or after the traumatic event in the hotel room that caused her to suffer sexual aversion?? I am assuming after--she probably wouldn't be noticed by Playbody until she was a celebrity of some sort As long as everyone is jumping on this bandwagon, I wonder if Ed can sue?? After I found out that I was overlooked (remember you are my expert witness Sue) my trauma has been so great that I have developed an aversion to sex and Ed is now suffering from deep emotional trauma from the loss LOL. We could really rake in the dollars, don't you think : ) jackief -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Another Woman-Clinton
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue I just can't help but wonder if Congress stays in tune with the public at all sometimes. Now they have allocated more money for this mess. I just shake my head. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: I don't think that it is just the younger people who don't care about the situation. If you listen to the shows such as Politically Incorrect, the "older" generation really isn't that concerned about the sexual part of this anymore either. Actually I think that most figure that it is such a mess that the truth will never come out, so why not just forget about it and get on with the work of the government. Or they figure what went on with the Presidents sex life is of no concern to them anyway. Somehow the whole core of the issue, whatever that was, has gotten lost in all the different stories and accusations that are flying around. Anyway that is how I see people talking about it. Ron told me that there are few if any of the staff at the school that are even interested in the whole thing. Sue Hi Bill I think you have really hit on one important thing that many forget when we hear each person's story of what occurred. Usually, it is not an either/or thing, but the truth lies somewhere in-between. I guess what I mean here is that it is not either she is telling the whole truth or he is telling the whole truth. In reality, we act and believe our perceptions of the situation, not necessarily the reality of the whole situation. How's that for a muddy explanation?? But what has me baffled is the lack of interest by the younger generation in what is occurring with this mess. Some of them do not even know what is happening and even if they are aware of the "mess" have no concern about how it affects the political process, our international relations, etc. I know I can't generalize to the majority of young people in our society from my experiences with the younger generation at this school, but I see hundreds everyday, not just one or two. jackief -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Re: Polygraph Testing/Jackie, Sue
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L Sue would know more than me about sodium penothol. I only know from experience the effects of the stuff. Yep, Sue, some people do say some weird things. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L.: Sodium Penothol is a ultra-short acting barbiturate which induces sleep. Other than that I have no idea what it would be used for, but have seen in movies that it is used as a truth serum. Don't know if that is true or not. :) I have seen people get quite talkative when coming out of it, but I don't know if they were telling the truth or not. And I have heard things that patients have said that I am sure they wouldn't want their spouse to hear. LOL Sue Jackie, Sue - hi - a question: what is the deal with so-called "truth serum?" Is that sodium pentathol? Not sure. But isn't there an injection (usually) that so relaxes a person that the tongue goes wag wag wag? Waiting to be enlightened... :) LDMF. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI A Word From the Leftwing of The Vast Rightwing Conspiracy
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry Having more laws doesn't make for enlightenment I see bg. Of course we don't have all the diversity etc that NY has so guess we don't need all those laws. jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I guess I am lucky--most of the cities I have lived in have excellent ordinances that are upheld. I am under the assumption (hope I am right) that MN has a law statewise, but I could be wrong. Will have to check that out. I know where I work we have a number of homosexuals and lesbians working there and they don't seem to have any problems at all. Sorry your area is more enlightened. jackief Surely you jest. I live in NY. New York has more laws than anybody. A local Italian restaurant is regularly fined for hiring Italians - in Rome yet. Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seriously though there isn't any way to prove one way or the other if Hillary knew what was going on, unless she talked to someone about it. We'll have to go find her hair dresser, they always know everything. I have always had a soft spot for Regan, I guess I felt sorry for him whenever Mrs. Thature got pissed, wow she was an amazing woman, Sometimes I really miss her she was the only one that actually knew what she was talking about and she commanded respect, especially in Europe, the people (looses possible use of the word), we have in know couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. (sorry for the language). We have no real statesmen in our government, just look at the treaty that was signed today France, Germany Russia it was called a European pact and Britain who is the European Parliaments Presidency had no part in it. Steve (finished ranting). P.S Any news on the Woodward case? He managed to get it changed to 665 1/2 to save himself and Nancy from the Great Satan. (I thought that was me lol) Spooky Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI COTD: Pennsylvania Unsolved murders
DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-03-26 18:08:59 EST, you write: On the afternoon of June 15, authorities released a sketch of a longhaired suspect seen near the Ritter homicide scene, but none of the resultant tips proved fruitful. When the murder series ended, as mysteriously as it had begun, police could only speculate about the strangler's identity and whereabouts. Unless deceased or jailed on unrelated charges, he is still at large today. The "longhaired" caught my eye. We have a trio of unsolved rapes in the area, and the only victim who can describe the assailant describes a white male with long fair hair worn in a pony tail. We are not that far from the PA scene Doc Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Re: Update Ruthann Aron trial
DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-03-26 19:21:28 EST, you write: Highly entertaining end of the trial today! I will elaborate more in the summary :) Now that's tantalizing! Tell! Tell! The Aron jury left for the evening without a decision. The judge is apparently trying to cajole them into trying rather than coming in hung. Doc Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Serial Killers
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: HI Terry and Jackie :) As I said before I am by far not a expert on SK's I do know a bit about them though, and tend to keep updated on them. Terry I firmly believe Lucas was a SK, I'm not sure what your reading saying it was a hoax, but due to the fact he told police where to find the bodies of some of his victims, and they did find the victims, that's pretty convincing evidence to me. If you would like some links to information about him let me know. The extra Chromosome as you are discussing below may be a key into the cause of SK's, it's just not known yet. It would be nice if we could find out what causes it, and hopefully they can pin down some definite medical reasons. Concerning Hoffman I agree he is not a SK, more of a exterminator out for revenge is what it looks like to me, a SK has a very specific profile, in that it's rare they will know their victims, and they get sexual gratification from the torture of their victims. Revenge at a victim is not something in the psych of a SK, now sometimes there is someone who the victims will represent, mother or grandmother, and that is how they will pick their victims. Talking of SK's we were supposed to have a trail here in VA Bch of a local SK, but today the Judge granted a change of venue due to publicity, so I won't be able to attend that trial and report on it in person. It was pretty much expected the change of venue would be granted. I posted a separate message about the case :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jackie, Yes and the psychiatrist did much more than that. He found a clinic actively teaching about and treating the disorder. Many feel the extra -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI SK trial in Virginia
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all :) This is a local SK case here in Hampton Roads, I had planned on trying to attend the trial, today though it was announced the Judge granted a change of Venue due to the publicity around this case, so I will not be able to attend the trial in person. Here is a case summary of this case, it may seem familiar to some of you, I did a profile on this case back in Houston, before they had arressted anyone for the murders. Elton Jackson, charged with the 1996 strangulation death of Andrew D. ``Andre'' Smith, has been linked through newly released court documents and DNA evidence to at least six of a dozen men thought to be the victims of a serial killer in Hampton Roads. Jackson, the prime suspect in the murders, which stretch back to 1987, had previously been linked to at least four victims. Evidence released this month reveals that he was acquainted with two additional victims. In fact, Jackson was investigated as a suspect as early as 1994, after the body of a ninth victim was found dumped in a deserted roadway, according to these court documents. Suffolk police questioned him four times that year. Jackson, 42, is scheduled to stand trial on April 21 in the murder of Smith, who is thought to be the most recent victim of the serial killer. DNA evidence shows that Jackson's semen was in Smith's body when it was found and that Smith's DNA was on cigarettes found in Jackson's car, according to court documents. Jackson, through his attorneys, has denied killing Andrew Smith or being the Hampton Roads serial killer. He remains in the Portsmouth jail in lieu of $1 million bond. Since Jackson's arrest in May last year, detectives on a regional task force have been trying to connect Jackson with other victims, according to court documents. According to The Virginian-Pilot's analysis of those documents and interviews with witnesses, there are links between Jackson and five other victims: Jesse James Spencer Jr., 30, whose nude body was found in a ditch off Jolliff Road in the Western Branch section on Jan. 27, 1996. In an interview last week, a woman who worked at a convenience store with Jackson said she last saw Spencer getting into Jackson's vehicle the night before his body was found. Another court witness has said Jackson and Spencer knew each other. Garland L. Taylor Jr., a 24-year-old Portsmouth brickmason whose body was found in a Suffolk ditch on Sept. 17, 1994. Jackson told Suffolk police that he saw Garland two weeks before his death and that he had known him three or four years. Robert A. Neal, 24, a Portsmouth resident who was found dead in a remote section of Chesapeake on Sept. 8, 1993. Jackson told Suffolk police in 1994 that he used to play tennis with Neal and that he let him stay at his house for a short while. Reginald Joyner, 32, who was found March 7, 1993, near Greenwood and Holy Neck roads in Suffolk. DNA taken from blood and semen on the bedding in Jackson's Portsmouth home match Joyner's DNA. Charles F. ``Chuckie'' Smith, 18, of Ocean View, Norfolk, who was found slain in a remote section of Chesapeake on July 17, 1987, and may have been the serial killer's first victim. Two inmates said that Jackson had known Smith. One said Jackson and Smith had a sexual relationship, and the other said Smith was with Jackson the night he disappeared. The murder cases share other similarities. Many of the victims were known to be homosexual or bisexual, and some prostituted for drugs. Their lifestyles, and Jackson's, tended to revolve around late-night clubs and hangouts in the downtown and Ocean View areas of Norfolk, and the Truxtun area of Portsmouth. At least 10 of the 12 victims were strangled. Two were too badly decomposed when found to determine the cause of death. All but one were found nude. Gloria Gaylord, who used to work with Jackson at a Quick Shop convenience store on Portsmouth Boulevard, may also testify during the trial. Jackson has told police that he met Andrew Smith at the store, which is a short distance from Jackson's home. Gaylord also saw Jackson with one of the other victims. In an interview last week, Gaylord said she may have been one of the last people to see Spencer alive. Spencer is considered to be the 11th victim of the serial killer. On Friday, Jan. 26, 1996 -- one day before Spencer's body was found -- Gaylord saw him get into Jackson's vehicle outside her home on 34th Street in Norfolk. She had given Spencer, her friend and neighbor, money for beer. The last she knew, he was going on a date with Jackson. `That Friday night, Jesse came up and we were talking. (Spencer) said: `I got a date for tonight,' '' said Gaylord. She said she knew that Jackson had gone out with a lot of men and that he often met them at the Quick Shop. ``He had a lot of people come by,'' she said. On Sunday, Jan. 28, 1996, Detective Cecil Whitehurst of the Chesapeake Police Department knocked on her door. Whitehurst, a
Re: LI Whitewater Grand Jury Sees Records/psych
DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-03-26 20:05:51 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He managed to get it changed to 665 1/2 to save himself and Nancy from the Great Satan. (I thought that was me lol) Spooky Move over, Steve. Didn't we establish that Satan is a woman? Get off my throne, buddy! Cec Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Justice does prevail..
Robert Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hi kathy welcome to the law list.i'm sure your going to love it here we have a great bunch of members who are always willing to help.it must be nice to hear from the police after so long about your things.most people after that long never do hear anything at all. bob,wa Kathy wrote: "Kathy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello to all on the list.. I am a new member here and really enjoy reading all the news of the cases I dont suffer from stress.I'M a carrier.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Any ideas or help would be appreciated
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Everyone: Dr. L. and I have been working on something and would appreciate any help or ideas anyone might have. First off I will repost the orginal story so you will know what I am talking about :) A law that makes it a felony for one parent to beat another does not apply to the beating of a pregnant woman by the father of the fetus, a state appeals court said. The ruling disappointed Riverside County prosecutors, who are discussing whether to appeal the case to the state Supreme Court, said Deputy District Attorney Colleen Mass. "Other rulings have given broad interpretations to the laws about spousal abuse," Mass said. The ruling by the 4th District Court of Appeals stems from the prosecution of Branson S. Ward, who was charged with assaulting Thea Airrington, his former girlfriend, in her Riverside apartment in March 1996. Airrington, who broke up with Ward the previous month, was 3 1/2 months pregnant at the time of the attack. Ward grabbed her arms, pushed her down, grabbed her by the hair and slammed her head into a closet door, slapped her and squeezed her neck, the court said. Prosecutors said the two still were seeing each other, though not living together. Ward was convicted of two felonies, aggravated assault and battery on the mother of his child, and sentenced to six years in prison. The sentence was double the usual term because Ward had a previous violent felony conviction and was covered by the three-strikes law. As drafted, the law used to prosecute Ward imposed felony penalties of up to four years in prison for beatings that would normally be misdemeanors, punishable by up to a year in jail, if the victim was the attacker's spouse of cohabitant. It was expanded in 1988 to include the beating of "the mother or father of (the attacker's) child." That amendment was used it the prosecution of Ward. Superior Court Judge W. Charles Morgan ruled that the parental violence law covered the beating of a pregnant woman. The appeals court, in overturning his ruling, said the law defines "mother" in a way that makes "the birth of a child...an essential prerequisite." The same law does not define "child" but other laws, prohibiting child abuse and neglect, have been interpreted to apply only to children after birth, said Justice Art McKinster in the 3-0 ruling. Mass, though, said murder statutes have provisions that allow someone to be charged in the death of a fetus. McKinster also rejected the state's argument that the law was intended to apply to all types of domestic violence, and said it was up to the Legislature to make that change. The attorney general's office may propose such a change, although it has not ruled out an appeal, said Deputy Attorney General Lilia Garcia, the state's lawyer. "We believe that a family relationship between the expectant mother and the batterer continues during the pregnancy, and she should be entitled to protection," Garcia said. Despite the ruling, Ward's prison sentence will not be reduced because it was legally based on the assault conviction, Garcia said. Diane Nicoles, Ward's lawyer, could not be reached for comment. Now here is what we are working on. I found a state law which may overturn this. It is: CALIFORNIA CODES CIVIL CODE SECTION 43-53 43. Besides the personal rights mentioned or recognized in the Government Code, every person has, subject to the qualifications and restrictions provided by law, the right of protection from bodily restraint or harm, from personal insult, from defamation, and from injury to his personal relations. 43.1. A child conceived, but not yet born, is deemed an existing person, so far as necessary for the child's interests in the event of the child's subsequent birth. Dr. L. and I would appreciate anything that anyone can contribute to our little project. We also have the court ruling if anyone would like to see it. Thanks Sue -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
