Re: [Lazarus] ListView problems

[dmitry boyarintsev]

Zeljan,

I'm reassigning the item to you.

thanks,
Dmitry

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
 wrote:
> zeljko schrieb:
>
>
>> Before any extending of example, open new issue and attach example which
>> crashes (and explanation how to reproduce please).
>
>
> After a look at your new code I found these problems:
>
> 1) After changing OwnerData it's necessary to Clear the listview. This
> should be done in the widget automatically. The same for BeginUpdate and
> EndUpdate, which also must be called for a change of the Item.Count.
> Otherwise the widget is misconfigured and can show blank entries.
>
> 2) The number of OwnerData items is AllocBy in Delphi, not Items.Count. This
> property seems to be ignored or otherwise unusable - fix or remove it?
> The (Win32) widget shows AllocBy items, but only for the first Items.Count
> items the OnData event occurs, the remaining items show as blank.
>
>
> The example code is not really instructive, due to the default names for all
> controls. How shall a user know what e.g. Button1Click or Edit1Change code
> is good for?
>
>
> No further problems with OwnerData, so far :-)
>
>
> DoDi
>
>
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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 12/02/2012 02:20, Mattias Gaertner wrote:



Hans-Peter Diettrich  hat am 11. Februar 2012 um 
22:10 geschrieben:


>[...]
> I've found all unmarked entries correct and complete (so far), so that
> the next contributor can concentrate on the marked items, and knows 
what

> exactly to research.

Great. :)

How to find these marks? Is there a pattern?



Check the changes of
Revision: 35270
Author: sekelsenmat
Date: 09 February 2012 13:52:27
Message:
General documentation cleanup removing [?] and various other minor 
improvements


Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/controls.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/forms.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/graphics.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/imglist.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/interfacebase.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/interfaces/win32/win32int.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lclintf.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lcltype.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/menus.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/stdctrls.xml


and
Revision: 33617
Author: sekelsenmat
Date: 18 November 2011 17:16:46
Message:
Documentation rework, removes aprox. 600 occurences of [?] and other 
non-sense from the documentation


Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/controls.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/forms.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/graphtype.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/grids.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/imglist.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/interfacebase.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lclclasses.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lclintf.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lclproc.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lcltype.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/ldocktree.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/lresources.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/propertystorage.xml
Modified : /trunk/docs/xml/lcl/stdctrls.xml




> Feel free to explain an more efficient approach, towards a complete 
documentation.


Is there an efficient way to find/list them?

I guess some of these marks should be converted to the new fpdoc notes.

Mattias



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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Mattias Gaertner]

Hans-Peter Diettrich  hat am 11. Februar 2012 um
22:10 geschrieben:

>[...]
> I've found all unmarked entries correct and complete (so far), so that
> the next contributor can concentrate on the marked items, and knows what
> exactly to research.


Great. :)
How to find these marks? Is there a pattern?


> Feel free to explain an more efficient approach, towards a complete
documentation.



Is there an efficient way to find/list them?



I guess some of these marks should be converted to the new fpdoc notes.





Mattias
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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 21:10, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Martin schrieb:

It he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but 
believes it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


So I should add a note instead: "who can clarify this, please 
contact me at <...> for my questions"? ;-)


ask on the mailinglist

or did your smiley mean, you intentionally did mis-understand?


You really don't understand the reality of providing documentation :-(

Pick some of my notes, and ask the community for a clarification. Then
wait...


Unfortunately your notes weren't committed. So (unless, I find the mail 
that points to mantis and then download the patch) I cannot read them


It is not the community to answer those question (so they can if they 
want), it is the developers.
And so far, IF one of them knew the answer, then I have usually gotten 
an answer (ok my question are usually what does this or that code do)


IF no one knows... But then those notes will not add any documentation 
either.


If there documetation that requires a comment like incomplete then it 
should get it in proper language "This documentation item is not 
complete" (potentially why / where / nhat)


However to deserve such a comment:
- it must not be obvious to the average user that it is incomplete
- the user must benefit from this knowledge

Similar for other notes.

Again: I am not for this. But that would IMHO be acceptable





Please check how much I updated myself, *without* adding notes. The 
notes occur only in those places, where I could *not* find the 
correct description myself.


Again as written before by me: If you actually have meaningful 
content, why a note?


I've found all unmarked entries correct and complete (so far), so that
the next contributor can concentrate on the marked items, and knows 
what exactly to research. Feel free to explain an more efficient 
approach, towards a complete documentation.


Nothing against marking then. but not in a way that goes into the final 
output.


Why are you changing subject?
This was not about marking entries (that possibility using comments has 
been mentioned before). This was about putting, things into the final 
end-user version.


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Re: [Lazarus] svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 21:11, Juha Manninen wrote:

Is anybody else getting an error when updating Lazarus trunk?
I get it on 3 different systems, using svn, TortoiseSVN and git-svn.

svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error



yes I do..

I already thoucht, its my local copy


btw

I was able to commit a single file (which was meant to go after the 
others, so svn will not compile now)


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[Lazarus] OT: Is there a Lazarus/FPC community in Australia ?

[ik]

Hello,

I'm interesting in knowing if there is an open source community in
Australia for FPC/Lazarus.
People who does lectures, meetings etc.. ?

Thanks,
Ido
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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 23:03, felipemonteiro.carva...@gmail.com wrote:

And a huge amount of people use our snapshots and svn


Especially with 0.9.30 being rather old already and trunk having all 
those nice features (and let's not forget support for FPC 2.6 and newer)



Ah, another idea: can we leave revision notes in the docs, as invisible 
comments, to indicate when an issue has been revised?.. Aren't we 
*both* right in our assumptions, that the Arc description was (slightly) 
outdated, but was still valid except for the changed parameter names?
Peace? ;-)


Yes, I agree we are both right and I am sorry if I was rude, I apologise for I 
should have contacted you or converted the notes into comments and I am willing 
to agree  to a common solution, let's put the notes as XML comments or what 
ever other way which Fpdoc supports :)


The new feature of fpdoc is


  Foo
  Bar


which can be used in ,  and  as Michael wrote in 
another mail.


Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[felipemonteiro . carvalho]

Em 11/02/2012, às 12:26, Hans-Peter 
> Just another idea: Can't we delay a solution to the next release?
> Then we can have the annotated documentation in the trunk, and a finalized 
> version in the release branch.

Unfortunately no, because we are deploying Lazarus Svn for example with our 
Android support in magazines, that's something serious and our documentation in 
such deployment needs to look serious too. And a huge amount of people use our 
snapshots and svn

> Ah, another idea: can we leave revision notes in the docs, as invisible 
> comments, to indicate when an issue has been revised?.. Aren't we 
> *both* right in our assumptions, that the Arc description was (slightly) 
> outdated, but was still valid except for the changed parameter names?
> Peace? ;-)

Yes, I agree we are both right and I am sorry if I was rude, I apologise for I 
should have contacted you or converted the notes into comments and I am willing 
to agree  to a common solution, let's put the notes as XML comments or what 
ever other way which Fpdoc supports :)

I always edit the XML manually so I surely won't accidentally change anything

Felipe
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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Sven Barth wrote:


On 11.02.2012 20:35, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:





[snip]


In fact, not so different from a WIKI, but more structured.

And now:
Since we now have notes, these can be displayed, and edited by all.


Wow... this sounds nice O.O


It's actually a very old idea.



This will allow to view and edit the documentation of the unfinished FCL 
units as well?


Maybe.



For users without enough rights it will more or less work like the current 
online HTML documentation just for trunk instead of the last release?




More or less, I suppose.


You will write the backend with FPWeb? :D


Obviously :-)

We're getting to the point where all needed technologies are present and mature 
enough.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

[Luiz Americo Pereira Camara]

On 11/2/2012 19:11, Juha Manninen wrote:

Is anybody else getting an error when updating Lazarus trunk?
I get it on 3 different systems, using svn, TortoiseSVN and git-svn.

svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error



Getting related error on viewvc

http://svn.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&root=lazarus&revision=34688 
Click in Text Changed and get


An Exception Has Occurred
Python Traceback

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/viewvc/viewvc.py", line 3628, in main
request.run_viewvc()
  File "/usr/lib/viewvc/viewvc.py", line 387, in run_viewvc
self.view_func(self)
  File "/usr/lib/viewvc/viewvc.py", line 2721, in view_diff
fp = request.repos.rawdiff(p1, rev1, p2, rev2, diff_type, diff_options)
  File "/usr/lib/viewvc/vclib/svn/__init__.py", line 687, in rawdiff
temp1 = temp_checkout(self, p1, r1, self.pool)
  File "/usr/lib/viewvc/vclib/svn/__init__.py", line 411, in temp_checkout
temp = tempfile.mktemp()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/tempfile.py", line 356, in mktemp
dir = gettempdir()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/tempfile.py", line 262, in gettempdir
tempdir = _get_default_tempdir()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/tempfile.py", line 209, in _get_default_tempdir
("No usable temporary directory found in %s" % dirlist))
IOError: [Errno 2] No usable temporary directory found in ['/tmp', 
'/var/tmp', '/usr/tmp', '/usr/lib/cgi-bin']




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Re: [Lazarus] svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

[Juha Manninen]

2012/2/11, Sven Barth :
> Yes, I get that error as well.

Ok, so the problem really is in the server.
I hope somebody knows how to fix it.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 22:11, Juha Manninen wrote:

Is anybody else getting an error when updating Lazarus trunk?
I get it on 3 different systems, using svn, TortoiseSVN and git-svn.

svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error


Yes, I get that error as well.

Regards,
Sven


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[Lazarus] svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

[Juha Manninen]

Is anybody else getting an error when updating Lazarus trunk?
I get it on 3 different systems, using svn, TortoiseSVN and git-svn.

svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Martin schrieb:

It he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but 
believes it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


So I should add a note instead: "who can clarify this, please contact 
me at <...> for my questions"? ;-)


ask on the mailinglist

or did your smiley mean, you intentionally did mis-understand?


You really don't understand the reality of providing documentation :-(

Pick some of my notes, and ask the community for a clarification. Then
wait...


Please check how much I updated myself, *without* adding notes. The 
notes occur only in those places, where I could *not* find the correct 
description myself.


Again as written before by me: If you actually have meaningful content, 
why a note?


I've found all unmarked entries correct and complete (so far), so that
the next contributor can concentrate on the marked items, and knows what 
exactly to research. Feel free to explain an more efficient approach, 
towards a complete documentation.


DoDi



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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Sven Barth wrote:

On 11.02.2012 15:48, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Ludo Brands schrieb:

Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't
display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds
suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite
frankly I don't know where to start.


When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error messages in the
console?


That was misleading, see the response :-(

Of interest are eventual error messages occuring when the application is
started in the IDE (F9).


You are aware that Mark's problem is loading the form in the IDE's 
designer?


I have to take responsibility if he didn't, I'm not sure my first few 
attempts at explaining the problem were particularly rigorous.


Anyway, I've now reverted to 0.9.20.3+2.6.0, erased the project 
directory, reloaded from svn and found that Lazarus loads and compiles 
it happily. But a run throws lots of runtime errors similar to


TApplication.HandleException Error reading StringGrid1.Columns: Error 
reading TGridColumn.Title.PrefixOption: Unknown property: "PrefixOption"


Removing the affected lines from the .lfm gives me something that 
appears to compile and run OK. I'm going to work through any other 
projects I've touched over the last few months checking they're OK with 
0.9.30 on x86 before doing anything else, but will revisit trunk presently.


--
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markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 20:35, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:



On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Howard Page-Clark wrote:


On 11/2/12 3:04, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:


Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the
intended usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for
a long time.


The prospect of a website dedicated to discussion of documentation
seems to me to be a helpful move forward.


It's not really about discussion (fed up with that, if you can believe
it ;) ), but about showing and collaborative editing of the docs.

The idea was/is the following:

* All nodes of an FPDoc description file can be put in a database;
One record per element/module/whatnot, fields for short/descr/seealso
and whatnot elements.
I have the structure floating around here somewhere.

* FPDoc needs (or already has, don't remember?) a mode to generate a
single HTML page,
based on node name.

* The website can use the fpdoc engine to fetch and display the HTML
'on-demand'.

* For people with enough rights, the content can be edited.

* When creating the full docs, the XML is read from the database and
written to an FPDoc file.

In fact, not so different from a WIKI, but more structured.

And now:
Since we now have notes, these can be displayed, and edited by all.


Wow... this sounds nice O.O

This will allow to view and edit the documentation of the unfinished FCL 
units as well?


For users without enough rights it will more or less work like the 
current online HTML documentation just for trunk instead of the last 
release?


You will write the backend with FPWeb? :D

I'm looking forward to it! :)

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Sven Barth wrote:


On 11.02.2012 16:04, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:



On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:


Seeing the discussions about annotating the documentation created by
FPDoc, I added support for notes.
(revision 20304)


Thanks :-)


In short:

At the level of the ,  and  tags, you can now
include a  tag.

Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the
intended usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for
a long time.


Do you mind explaining a bit what you have in mind? :)


Just sent the idea in a mail in response to Howards mail.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Howard Page-Clark wrote:


On 11/2/12 3:04, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:


Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the
intended usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for
a long time.


The prospect of a website dedicated to discussion of documentation seems to 
me to be a helpful move forward.


It's not really about discussion (fed up with that, if you can believe it ;) ), 
but about showing and collaborative editing of the docs.


The idea was/is the following:

* All nodes of an FPDoc description file can be put in a database;
  One record per element/module/whatnot, fields for short/descr/seealso and 
whatnot elements.
  I have the structure floating around here somewhere.

* FPDoc needs (or already has, don't remember?) a mode to generate a single 
HTML page,
  based on node name.

* The website can use the fpdoc engine to fetch and display the HTML 
'on-demand'.

* For people with enough rights, the content can be edited.

* When creating the full docs, the XML is read from the database and written to 
an FPDoc file.

In fact, not so different from a WIKI, but more structured.

And now:
Since we now have notes, these can be displayed, and edited by all.


Michael.


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 16:04, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:



On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:


Seeing the discussions about annotating the documentation created by
FPDoc, I added support for notes.
(revision 20304)


Thanks :-)


In short:

At the level of the ,  and  tags, you can now
include a  tag.

Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the
intended usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for
a long time.


Do you mind explaining a bit what you have in mind? :)

Regards,
Sven


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:


And now you have the incredible nerve to complain that
...your descriptions have not been very helpful so far, I'm still waiting 
for at least one practical example - XML, not usage :-(


Well.

Your reply shows you have not actually read the fpdoc docs (it contains at 
least 2 example XML snippets in the tag reference) or checked out the 
testunit1.xml file that is checked in with fpdoc itself (it contains notes 
at various levels).


Sorry that I'm too stupid to read your mind :-(


What does my mind have to do with anything ?

You ask about practical examples. You explicitly accuse me of not being
helpful in my descriptions. So, I explicitly tell you where the examples
are located, when in fact there was no need to do so:

Why do you think I gave revision numbers in the announcement message ?
(Of both the implementation and documentation, to boot...)

The answer is obvious:
So interested people could check out the relevant code and documentation 
and study them. Of course, I expect them to do so, and that includes you.


What more can I do ? Travel to Germany and hold your hand ?

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 15:48, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Ludo Brands schrieb:

Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't
display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds
suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite
frankly I don't know where to start.


When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error messages in the
console?


That was misleading, see the response :-(

Of interest are eventual error messages occuring when the application is
started in the IDE (F9).


You are aware that Mark's problem is loading the form in the IDE's designer?

Regards,
Sven


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Reinier Olislagers]

On 11-2-2012 19:27, Howard Page-Clark wrote:
> On 11/2/12 3:04, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
>> Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for
>> a long time.
> The prospect of a website dedicated to discussion of documentation seems
> to me to be a helpful move forward. This mailing list is not well suited
> to detailed discussions of the numerous issues 'documentation' and
> 'help' raise, and use of it for that creates a lot of noise that some
> find irritating.

> I hope that a new website might help us bring together the best of what
> is in the current wiki and has been written over the years in these
> mailing lists and the already published Lazarus book. A consolidation
> and editing exercise is needed (in addition to documenting the hitherto
> undocumented parts of the LCL), and I believe there are several people,
> myself included, who are ready to help with this task who have not done
> much towards it so far beyond tidying up the worst bits we stumble over
> in the wiki.

Totally agreed.

Regards,
Reinier

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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Howard Page-Clark]

On 11/2/12 3:04, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:


Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the
intended usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for
a long time.


The prospect of a website dedicated to discussion of documentation seems 
to me to be a helpful move forward. This mailing list is not well suited 
to detailed discussions of the numerous issues 'documentation' and 
'help' raise, and use of it for that creates a lot of noise that some 
find irritating.
Nevertheless it is one of the major bullets to be bitten before Lazarus 
can consider getting to the 1.0 stage, and so having an interactive 
arena dedicated to it would be excellent, and I hope would move Lazarus 
docs further towards the goal of being adequate if not good or excellent.
FPC documentation has the advantage of being overseen by a single person 
who has the ability not only to produce and maintain the tools needed to 
write the documentation, but is punctilious in writing the docs and 
keeping shiny new code (however good) out of the FCL until it is 
properly documented. Someone who has poured countless hours into writing 
and correcting the existing docs - making that a priority - alongside 
writing much of the original code. Someone who is also good at 
collaborating with other core developers. Also FPC  does not need to 
document or provide help for a complex IDE that is growing in features 
all the time.
I think the Lazarus team lacks an equivalent core person who combines 
coding expertise with the organisational, administrative and English/XML 
writing skills (and available time to marshal all the 
information/databases/people/wikis and so on) needed to produce good 
quality documentation, and good quality help. This is not to knock 
anyone - goodness knows, each does his best - but simply to point out 
what is true for so many open source collaborative efforts: you have to 
work with the people who offer and stay engaged for more than just the 
short term, and who make the time to contribute enough to make their 
contribution significant.
I hope that a new website might help us bring together the best of what 
is in the current wiki and has been written over the years in these 
mailing lists and the already published Lazarus book. A consolidation 
and editing exercise is needed (in addition to documenting the hitherto 
undocumented parts of the LCL), and I believe there are several people, 
myself included, who are ready to help with this task who have not done 
much towards it so far beyond tidying up the worst bits we stumble over 
in the wiki.



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Re: [Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Ludo Brands wrote:
I hate to admit this, but could you remind me of how to get 
library and 
X versions? I think you probably do it rather more often than I do :-)




'dpkg --list'. Be prepared for a lot of output :)


[Chuckle] although I'm sure that he'd have preferred the upstream 
version numbers rather than what Debian calls them.


Noting that X is going over ssh, on the system running the IDE and 
program (i.e. strictly the client)


xorg1:7.5+8+squeeze1 



and on the desktop system

xorg   7.1.0-19 



Remainder on the system running the program:

> 2.Gtk2 lib version

libgtk2.0-0 2.20.1-2

> 3.Qt lib version

libqt4pas5  2.1Qt4.5.3-1 

libqtcore4  4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1 



> 4.kernel and libc version.

libc6   2.11.3-2 

libc6-dev   2.11.3-2 



Linux pye-dev-07 2.6.38-custom #2 SMP Thu Jun 9 11:07:18 GMT 2011 i686 
GNU/Linux


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 17:47, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:

Martin schrieb:
> On 11/02/2012 17:21, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:
>> In general this is not correct. If I see that variables mentioned 
in the documentation do not exist in the source I don't know 
automatically which variables to replace them with (if any). Or when I 
tested things and find that it does not behave as mentioned in the 
documentation I also don't know how it's meant to work.


> And a comment/note like "[What]" or "[Really]" Does improve that?

At least it is a hint to the user to watch out and not rely too much 
on the documentation.


A [what?] looks to me like I downloaded a broken file, so I will waste 
my time on another download.


Anyway lets assume, question was raised, no one answered.

Then it is time to make sure, that something is wrong. Putting anythinc 
that says "might be wrong" into absolute correct docs, is bad too (IMHO 
worse). That is even so it only states the possibility. Any doc can 
possibility be wrong, no need to state that unless one KNOWS it is.


If indeed it is, we can DISCUSS, if a proper worded text should be used 
(at least looks more professional:

example:

The below documentation applies to an older version of the LCL. It might 
not be entirely accurate.



BUT, that needs to be agreed by all.






> If anything more meaningful can be put into a note, then the person 
can also write it proper into the doc.

> If your tests shows that it is incorrect. Well incorrect => delete.
> What good is "foo does blah blah [this is wrong]" over an empty 
entry? Anyone who needs the old/outdated/wrong text, still finds it in 
SVN


Of course, it all depends on the situation but there can be parts of 
the documentation that give hints how it *could* be meant but nobody 
knows how to make it correct. Then this is better than nothing.





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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 18:49:15 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> zeljko wrote:
>  >> If I fill in the database login form execution appears to continue,
>  >> despite the "Execution stopped" dialog(ue), with a form displayed
>  >> which should display data derived from a database on a server.
>  >> However nothing useful is displayed, and a diagnostic (coloured
>  >> asterisk) suggests that the background thread that talks to the
>  >> database has done what's necessary but then things have ground to
>  >> a halt.
>  >> 
>  >> So in short, I think there are (at least) two separate problems here:
>  >> the first is an IDE problem affecting GTK2, and the second is a
>  >> possible thread/sync problem which affects both GTK2 and Qt.
>  > 
>  > hm...very strange. Can you post:
>  > 1.X11 version.
>  > 2.Gtk2 lib version
>  > 3.Qt lib version
>  > 4.kernel and libc version.
> 
> I hate to admit this, but could you remind me of how to get library and
> X versions? I think you probably do it rather more often than I do :-)

There must be apt-cache or similar to get installed packages.
I'm on rpm so rpmquery -qa | grep x11 lists all packages which have x11 in 
it's name , so libX11 too :)

zeljko
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[Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Ludo Brands]

> I hate to admit this, but could you remind me of how to get 
> library and 
> X versions? I think you probably do it rather more often than I do :-)
> 

'dpkg --list'. Be prepared for a lot of output :)

Ludo



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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 17:16, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Martin schrieb:

It he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but 
believes it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


So I should add a note instead: "who can clarify this, please contact 
me at <...> for my questions"? ;-)


ask on the mailinglist

or did your smiley mean, you intentionally did mis-understand?



- incomplete (falls under 2, unless it makes in misleading, then 
falls under 3)

Does not change by adding a note.
Again, if the person knows what is missing, then he can immediately 
add it. Even if after adding in might still be missing some more.


Please check how much I updated myself, *without* adding notes. The 
notes occur only in those places, where I could *not* find the correct 
description myself.


Again as written before by me: If you actually have meaningful content, 
why a note? And as you wrote above, if you had it, you did fix or 
improve the doc, rather than adding such notes.


And please also tell me *whom* to ask in all these remaining cases.
Guess how many answers I got in the past, when sending such questions 
to the mailing list :-(


Well I agree, not every question will be answered.
But if not, it means no one knows the answer. That also means, there is 
no one who will fix a "[what?]" note. And if no one is to fix it, there 
is no point in putting it there.


As I said. Trying to use them to force people will not work.

Spearing for myself:
- Where I can (have knowledge and time), I will help.
- And where that does not apply, you can be certain that such notes are 
the last think that will make me do anything. If they had really gone 
in, and decision was not to remove them without fix: Well be it.




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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 18:27:53 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> zeljko schrieb:
> >  > This is one of the biggest and most annoying differences between
> >  > Lazarus
> >  > 
> >  > and Delphi: Delphi handles the difference between Width/Height and
> >  > 
> >  > ClientWidth/ClientHeight properly, while Lazarus makes no such
> >  > 
> >  > distinction :-(
> > 
> > Such change is planned for post 1.0 because it can easy postpone 1.0 for
> > one year. Feel free to provide patch which will fix that in next 2-3
> > weeks so we can test before branching.
> 
> Okay, send me an Mac so that I can start my research ASAP :-)

If you fix it for all except for Mac then I'll fix Mac :)

zeljko
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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

zeljko wrote:

>> If I fill in the database login form execution appears to continue,
>> despite the "Execution stopped" dialog(ue), with a form displayed
>> which should display data derived from a database on a server.
>> However nothing useful is displayed, and a diagnostic (coloured
>> asterisk) suggests that the background thread that talks to the
>> database has done what's necessary but then things have ground to
>> a halt.
>>
>> So in short, I think there are (at least) two separate problems here:
>> the first is an IDE problem affecting GTK2, and the second is a
>> possible thread/sync problem which affects both GTK2 and Qt.
>
> hm...very strange. Can you post:
> 1.X11 version.
> 2.Gtk2 lib version
> 3.Qt lib version
> 4.kernel and libc version.

I hate to admit this, but could you remind me of how to get library and 
X versions? I think you probably do it rather more often than I do :-)


In actual fact it happens on at least two systems: a SPARC based on 
Debian "Etch" and an x86 based on Debian "Lenny". And it didn't used to 
happen on either, since I was routinely building on both.


I'm planning to assume that I've got some screwed projects, focus on x86 
(so as not to risk any bugs due to endianness, although I believe SPARC 
is OK by now) and go back in local svn to a point that will allow me to 
build reliably on 0.9.30+2.6.0.


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Martin schrieb:
> On 11/02/2012 17:21, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:
>> In general this is not correct. If I see that variables mentioned in 
the documentation do not exist in the source I don't know automatically 
which variables to replace them with (if any). Or when I tested things 
and find that it does not behave as mentioned in the documentation I 
also don't know how it's meant to work.


> And a comment/note like "[What]" or "[Really]" Does improve that?

At least it is a hint to the user to watch out and not rely too much on 
the documentation.



> If anything more meaningful can be put into a note, then the person 
can also write it proper into the doc.

> If your tests shows that it is incorrect. Well incorrect => delete.
> What good is "foo does blah blah [this is wrong]" over an empty 
entry? Anyone who needs the old/outdated/wrong text, still finds it in SVN


Of course, it all depends on the situation but there can be parts of the 
documentation that give hints how it *could* be meant but nobody knows 
how to make it correct. Then this is better than nothing.





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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 17:23, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Martin schrieb:

I have no easy reachable list off topics that need attention[1]. So I 
can not check if I know the answer.


As described in StyleGuide.txt,

I did entirely miss that one, sorry


the marks haven been choosen for simple finding, without the need for 
additional tools. Simple do a search in directories 
(lazarus/docs/xml...) for "?]" in *.xml, and navigate easily from the 
search results window to all occurences. You even can restrict your 
search to specific units. I don't see what further comfort you can 
expect?


Well fpdoc has  tags now. So [...?] notes are not needed.

Still, then xml comments, I could have found the same way. So there was 
no need to put the notes into final doc output. That is:

 not for the purpose of enabling others to find such places


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

zeljko schrieb:


 > This is one of the biggest and most annoying differences between Lazarus

 > and Delphi: Delphi handles the difference between Width/Height and

 > ClientWidth/ClientHeight properly, while Lazarus makes no such

 > distinction :-(


Such change is planned for post 1.0 because it can easy postpone 1.0 for 
one year. Feel free to provide patch which will fix that in next 2-3 
weeks so we can test before branching.


Okay, send me an Mac so that I can start my research ASAP :-)

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:


And now you have the incredible nerve to complain that
...your descriptions have not been very helpful so far, I'm still 
waiting for at least one practical example - XML, not usage :-(


Well.

Your reply shows you have not actually read the fpdoc docs (it contains 
at least 2 example XML snippets in the tag reference) or checked out the 
testunit1.xml file that is checked in with fpdoc itself (it contains 
notes at various levels).


Sorry that I'm too stupid to read your mind :-(

And sorry that I did realize only now, that your  can not replace 
my [notes], inlined in the texts.


IMO this is a classical example of the different assumptions of the 
developers (enough said) and the users (understood nothing) :-(


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Martin schrieb:

It he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but believes 
it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


So I should add a note instead: "who can clarify this, please contact me 
at <...> for my questions"? ;-)


- incomplete (falls under 2, unless it makes in misleading, then falls 
under 3)

Does not change by adding a note.
Again, if the person knows what is missing, then he can immediately add 
it. Even if after adding in might still be missing some more.


Please check how much I updated myself, *without* adding notes. The 
notes occur only in those places, where I could *not* find the correct 
description myself.


And please also tell me *whom* to ask in all these remaining cases.
Guess how many answers I got in the past, when sending such questions to 
the mailing list :-(


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Martin schrieb:

I have no easy reachable list off topics that need attention[1]. So I 
can not check if I know the answer.


As described in StyleGuide.txt, the marks haven been choosen for simple 
finding, without the need for additional tools. Simple do a search in 
directories (lazarus/docs/xml...) for "?]" in *.xml, and navigate easily 
from the search results window to all occurences. You even can restrict 
your search to specific units. I don't see what further comfort you can 
expect?


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] RE : RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Ludo Brands wrote:
Reading between the lines, it sounds as though I'd be best 
going through 
all projects and making sure that they build and run properly with 
0.9.30 before doing anything else. Thank heavens I set up svn 
here a few 
months ago.


If that is the route to follow and knowing that 0.9.30 warns about 
unknown properties, would I be better working from my most recent 
revision of each project and manually removing properties (from which 
files- .lfm?) or would I be better going to an older revision to get 
safe forms and then integrating more recent code?




Don't know when the functionality was introduced, but when you load a form
using unknown properties you get a screen highlighting the problems and
proposing to remove all unknown properties. If your 0.9.30 has already this
functionality then going this route is clearly the easiest. 


Thanks Ludo, I've not seen that on either 0.9.30 or trunk... it sounds 
very much as though I've got a batch of screwed projects, due to moving 
onto trunk when I was having to use 2.7.1 because of SPARC problems. I 
think I should probably have a local policy of never committing a 
project if it's been saved by trunk.


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 17:21, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:

Martin schrieb:
> However, if the person, who founds it has the ability to add a note, 
then he can also immediately correct it. Knowing it is misleading, 
does imply knowing what it was meant to say. So rewording the existing 
content should be possible.


In general this is not correct. If I see that variables mentioned in 
the documentation do not exist in the source I don't know 
automatically which variables to replace them with (if any). Or when I 
tested things and find that it does not behave as mentioned in the 
documentation I also don't know how it's meant to work.


And a comment/note like "[What]" or "[Really]" Does improve that?

If anything more meaningful can be put into a note, then the person can 
also write it proper into the doc.


If your tests shows that it is incorrect. Well incorrect => delete.

What good is "foo does blah blah [this is wrong]" over an empty entry? 
Anyone who needs the old/outdated/wrong text, still finds it in SVN






> If he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but 
believes it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


You know that this is impractical if you need to wait for an answer 
each time you stumble over errors. What happens if no one has an 
answer (within a given time)?


I do the same from time to the, if I try to implement something, and 
don't understand something I need for it. Or don't know something else.


If no one answers:
Well what good is a note then, if it is meant to indicate some one needs 
to fix it. No one ever will (or they would have answered)


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Martin schrieb:
> However, if the person, who founds it has the ability to add a note, 
then he can also immediately correct it. Knowing it is misleading, does 
imply knowing what it was meant to say. So rewording the existing 
content should be possible.


In general this is not correct. If I see that variables mentioned in the 
documentation do not exist in the source I don't know automatically 
which variables to replace them with (if any). Or when I tested things 
and find that it does not behave as mentioned in the documentation I 
also don't know how it's meant to work.



> If he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but 
believes it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


You know that this is impractical if you need to wait for an answer each 
time you stumble over errors. What happens if no one has an answer 
(within a given time)?



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[Lazarus] RE : RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Ludo Brands]

> Reading between the lines, it sounds as though I'd be best 
> going through 
> all projects and making sure that they build and run properly with 
> 0.9.30 before doing anything else. Thank heavens I set up svn 
> here a few 
> months ago.
> 
> If that is the route to follow and knowing that 0.9.30 warns about 
> unknown properties, would I be better working from my most recent 
> revision of each project and manually removing properties (from which 
> files- .lfm?) or would I be better going to an older revision to get 
> safe forms and then integrating more recent code?
> 

Don't know when the functionality was introduced, but when you load a form
using unknown properties you get a screen highlighting the problems and
proposing to remove all unknown properties. If your 0.9.30 has already this
functionality then going this route is clearly the easiest. 

Ludo


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 17:02, Martin wrote:

On 11/02/2012 16:49, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:

Martin schrieb:

4 ff) incomplete, misleading, inconsistent...
This is the right place for notes, telling the *experts* to let 
their experience shine here.

Notes that appear in the end user output are inappropriate.
Why that? Better let the end user run into the open knife? I would 
prefer to see such hints if someone already found that something is 
incorrect or misleading. Of course, the best would be a consistent 
and error free documentation but as long as this is not achieved such 
hints are the second best IMO.




That is why I did not have topic 4. And my last answer is wrong.
Now you cot me to the level where I trip myself, because rather than 
discussing the actual  issue, we try to prove the other one wrong, by 
dissecting teir words and find a meaning to them that wasn't thought off :(


my previous answer is not wrong: Notes are inappropriate.

my previous answer was incomplete


(I have added my original 3 cases at the bottom of the mail, as this 
answer requires the context.)


- Misleading (falls under 3):
 equals incorrect. So it falls under 3 and should be removed.
However, if the person, who founds it has the ability to add a note, 
then he can also immediately correct it. Knowing it is misleading, 
does imply knowing what it was meant to say. So rewording the existing 
content should be possible.


It he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but 
believes it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


- incomplete (falls under 2, unless it makes in misleading, then falls 
under 3)

Does not change by adding a note.
Again, if the person knows what is missing, then he can immediately 
add it. Even if after adding in might still be missing some more.


- inconsistent (falls under 2, unless it makes in misleading, then 
falls under 3)

Same either fix, delete or ask



We have 3 cases

1) correct and good documentation. No note was ever attached, or if 
it was, then it was in error and removal is appropriate


2) empty or meaningless. (can be seen of a kind of wrong, but not 
"incorrect" or "untrue").

We do not need a note to tell the end user "This is meaningless/empty"

3) incorrect , untrue
Does not need a note. Does need immediate removal.




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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 16:49, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:

Martin schrieb:

4 ff) incomplete, misleading, inconsistent...
This is the right place for notes, telling the *experts* to let 
their experience shine here.

Notes that appear in the end user output are inappropriate.
Why that? Better let the end user run into the open knife? I would 
prefer to see such hints if someone already found that something is 
incorrect or misleading. Of course, the best would be a consistent and 
error free documentation but as long as this is not achieved such 
hints are the second best IMO.




That is why I did not have topic 4. And my last answer is wrong.
(I have added my original 3 cases at the bottom of the mail, as this 
answer requires the context.)


- Misleading (falls under 3):
 equals incorrect. So it falls under 3 and should be removed.
However, if the person, who founds it has the ability to add a note, 
then he can also immediately correct it. Knowing it is misleading, does 
imply knowing what it was meant to say. So rewording the existing 
content should be possible.


It he person is not sure, about it being misleading or not, but believes 
it might be. Then better ask first before  adding a note


- incomplete (falls under 2, unless it makes in misleading, then falls 
under 3)

Does not change by adding a note.
Again, if the person knows what is missing, then he can immediately add 
it. Even if after adding in might still be missing some more.


- inconsistent (falls under 2, unless it makes in misleading, then falls 
under 3)

Same either fix, delete or ask



We have 3 cases

1) correct and good documentation. No note was ever attached, or if it 
was, then it was in error and removal is appropriate


2) empty or meaningless. (can be seen of a kind of wrong, but not 
"incorrect" or "untrue").

We do not need a note to tell the end user "This is meaningless/empty"

3) incorrect , untrue
Does not need a note. Does need immediate removal.




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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:

Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the intended 
usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for a 
long time.


Sorry, I cannot establish any connection from a website to the  syntax 
and usage in FPC documentation :-(


Do you mean kind of a separate section, like  or , or tags 
embeddable into other text?




And now you have the incredible nerve to complain that
...your descriptions have not been very helpful so far, I'm still waiting for 
at least one practical example - XML, not usage :-(


Well.

Your reply shows you have not actually read the fpdoc docs (it contains 
at least 2 example XML snippets in the tag reference) or checked out the 
testunit1.xml file that is checked in with fpdoc itself 
(it contains notes at various levels).


You should have noticed it was updated when you did an update. 
So, looking at either would have answered your question.


Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Martin schrieb:

4 ff) incomplete, misleading, inconsistent...
This is the right place for notes, telling the *experts* to let their 
experience shine here.

Notes that appear in the end user output are inappropriate.
Why that? Better let the end user run into the open knife? I would 
prefer to see such hints if someone already found that something is 
incorrect or misleading. Of course, the best would be a consistent and 
error free documentation but as long as this is not achieved such hints 
are the second best IMO.



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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 15:53, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Martin schrieb:

They are *intended* to make it *so* worse, that the gurus (Lazarus 
team) finally decide to contribute the required documentation, 
instead of only inventing new features :-]


That assumes the person who knows the answer is actually looking at 
that doc-entry. Not necessarily the case.


That's why I choose a solution that produces such a lot of noise, at 
least in the mailing list, that chances become better for reaching the 
intended goal and audience. Without some pressure on the entire 
Lazarus team the obvious answers will be "not me!" :-(


Yes the "drawing attention" is the only good think that came of it.
But that only worked, because your notes were dropped, and you could 
complain.


Had they gone in, they would have silently disappeared. Maybe in a few 
month a user read them and asked... So the discussion might still have 
started...


So good thing they were dropped.

"Pressure" like that doesn't work. I guess you meant: Without that kind 
of attention, it would be ignored by most.



Any way problem remains:

I have no easy reachable list off topics that need attention[1]. So I 
can not check if I know the answer.


That would still be the same, if the notes had gone in. I am not about 
to open every help topic, to see if there is a note.
I would also not stumble upon any, since I do not use the help (but if I 
did, I would only stumble on those that I do not know the answer)



So no that we have the attention, we need to move from inline notes, to 
a system that allows people to contribute the info.




[1]
Entire SynEdit... Yes I an aware off

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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 17:19:25 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> Sven Barth schrieb:
> >> for non-Windows ? Are you saying that under lclwin32 Form.Width <>
> >> Form.ClientWidth ?
> > 
> > Quick test on Win32 using 0.9.31 (around two weeks old) using event
> > handlers for OnShow and OnResize: No, it's not the case.
> 
> This is one of the biggest and most annoying differences between Lazarus
>   and Delphi: Delphi handles the difference between Width/Height and
> ClientWidth/ClientHeight properly, while Lazarus makes no such
> distinction :-(

Such change is planned for post 1.0 because it can easy postpone 1.0 for one 
year. Feel free to provide patch which will fix that in next 2-3 weeks so we 
can test before branching.

zeljko
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Re: [Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Ludo Brands wrote:
When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error 
messages in 

the console?

That was misleading, see the response :-(

Of interest are eventual error messages occuring when the 
application is 
started in the IDE (F9).




Put an non-existing component property into a lfm and watch the console when
you load the form ;) 
You get also messages in the IDE but it wasn't clear from the original

message what and if something was visible in the IDE. The console is also
more verbose. 


Reading between the lines, it sounds as though I'd be best going through 
all projects and making sure that they build and run properly with 
0.9.30 before doing anything else. Thank heavens I set up svn here a few 
months ago.


If that is the route to follow and knowing that 0.9.30 warns about 
unknown properties, would I be better working from my most recent 
revision of each project and manually removing properties (from which 
files- .lfm?) or would I be better going to an older revision to get 
safe forms and then integrating more recent code?


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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 17:14:40 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

> If I fill in the database login form execution appears to continue,
> despite the "Execution stopped" dialog(ue), with a form displayed which
> should display data derived from a database on a server. However nothing
> useful is displayed, and a diagnostic (coloured asterisk) suggests that
> the background thread that talks to the database has done what's
> necessary but then things have ground to a halt.
> 
> So in short, I think there are (at least) two separate problems here:
> the first is an IDE problem affecting GTK2, and the second is a possible
> thread/sync problem which affects both GTK2 and Qt.

hm...very strange. Can you post:
1.X11 version.
2.Gtk2 lib version
3.Qt lib version
4.kernel and libc version.

zeljko
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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Martin schrieb:

They are *intended* to make it *so* worse, that the gurus (Lazarus 
team) finally decide to contribute the required documentation, instead 
of only inventing new features :-]


That assumes the person who knows the answer is actually looking at that 
doc-entry. Not necessarily the case.


That's why I choose a solution that produces such a lot of noise, at 
least in the mailing list, that chances become better for reaching the 
intended goal and audience. Without some pressure on the entire Lazarus 
team the obvious answers will be "not me!" :-(


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Sven Barth schrieb:


for non-Windows ? Are you saying that under lclwin32 Form.Width <>
Form.ClientWidth ?


Quick test on Win32 using 0.9.31 (around two weeks old) using event 
handlers for OnShow and OnResize: No, it's not the case.


This is one of the biggest and most annoying differences between Lazarus 
 and Delphi: Delphi handles the difference between Width/Height and 
ClientWidth/ClientHeight properly, while Lazarus makes no such 
distinction :-(


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:

Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the 
intended usage of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. This website has been in the pipeline for 
a long time.


Sorry, I cannot establish any connection from a website to the  
syntax and usage in FPC documentation :-(


Do you mean kind of a separate section, like  or , or 
tags embeddable into other text?




And now you have the incredible nerve to complain that
...your descriptions have not been very helpful so far, I'm still 
waiting for at least one practical example - XML, not usage :-(


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Sven Barth schrieb:

On 11.02.2012 15:02, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

What about a less structured solution, e.g.

for an alternative use of the just introduced tag?
(exact syntax to be specified)


That example would be a violation of the XML specification.


For this stands the (...) postscript ;-)

I also could have written
  
or
  
with the only requirement that FPDoc does not stop or AV on an unknown tag.

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 14:43, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Martin schrieb:


We have 3 cases

1) correct and good documentation. No note was ever attached, or if 
it was, then it was in error and removal is appropriate


2) empty or meaningless. (can be seen of a kind of wrong, but not 
"incorrect" or "untrue").

We do not need a note to tell the end user "This is meaningless/empty"


The notes are for the authors, not for the end user.


3) incorrect , untrue
Does not need a note. Does need immediate removal.


4 ff) incomplete, misleading, inconsistent...
This is the right place for notes, telling the *experts* to let their 
experience shine here.



Notes that appear in the end user output are inappropriate.

Notes (off this kind) are communication between developers.
They can and should be accessible by those users, who want to see them.
But they are not content of the help.

Besides, the help system is a bad place. They are not very likely to be 
seen by all the developers. After all the person who knows, does not 
need to read the help




IMO you are miles away from practical documentation. Readers and 
writers are not kind of compilers, which throw hints, warnings or 
fatal errors on every word or phrase in a documentation. Most 
developers think that their identifiers or implementations are self 
explanatory. Users can have a very different experience with the same 
items :-(


Which of your classes is applicable to a misspelled (or renamed) 
reference? Including the right suggested action?


This is a different topic. I have not read any disagreement about the 
idea to improve help.


Maybe about the "need" for individual items. But even if someone does 
think an item does not "need" it, that does not mean, that an improved 
text would be rejected. It only means that the person who does not feel 
the need, will not do the work.


Such perception might be changed by discussion. But again notes are not 
the place for a discussion.


---
If I think the menu entry "Jump back" (history) should be renamed, but I 
do not have a better name, should I rename it do "Jump back [note: need 
better name]" ? So every user who drops open the menu will see my note?

That might sound exaggerated , but is it not the same logic?


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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Ludo Brands schrieb:
Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't 
display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds 
suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite 
frankly I don't know where to start.



When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error messages in the
console?


That was misleading, see the response :-(

Of interest are eventual error messages occuring when the application is 
started in the IDE (F9).


This could be misleading, since one of the first things the program does 
is hide the main form (i.e. the one that's malformed in the IDE) and 
display a database login form in its place.


When I compile the program for GTK2 and start it (F9), I get what looks 
like a konsole window appear with


Xlib:  extension "RANDR" missing on display "localhost:11.0".

While I believe the message is benign, I don't know what's opening the 
konsole session- I've not seen it in the past.


I also get an "Execution stopped" dialog(ue), plus an active database 
login window (a custom form, not a built-in).


On the konsole session used to start the IDE,

..
Compiling resource HeavyWethers.or
Linking HeavyWethers-i386-linux-gtk2
/usr/bin/ld: warning: link.res contains output sections; did you forget -T?
8281 lines compiled, 5.6 sec
23 warning(s) issued
43 hint(s) issued
12 note(s) issued
[TCompiler.Compile] end
[TMainIDE.DoRunProject] A
TMainIDE.DoInitProjectRun A True 0
TMainIDE.DoInitProjectRun B
TMainIDE.DoInitProjectRun 
ProgramFilename=/usr/local/src/heavywethers/trunk/HeavyWethers-i386-linux-gtk2
[TDebugger.SetFileName] 
"/usr/local/src/heavywethers/trunk/HeavyWethers-i386-linux-gtk2"

[TMainIDE.DoRunProject] B
[TMainIDE.DoRunProject] END
PR: /usr/local/src/heavywethers/trunk/HeavyWethers-i386-linux-gtk2 --debug
konsole(28994)/kdeui (kdelibs): Attempt to use QAction "change-profile" 
with KXMLGUIFactory!

[TDebugger.SetFileName] ""

If I fill in the database login form execution appears to continue, 
despite the "Execution stopped" dialog(ue), with a form displayed which 
should display data derived from a database on a server. However nothing 
useful is displayed, and a diagnostic (coloured asterisk) suggests that 
the background thread that talks to the database has done what's 
necessary but then things have ground to a halt.


So in short, I think there are (at least) two separate problems here: 
the first is an IDE problem affecting GTK2, and the second is a possible 
thread/sync problem which affects both GTK2 and Qt.


I know it's unwise to say this sort of thing, but I have no reason to 
believe that the application code is faulty: it's been running fine for 
more than a year.


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Samuel Herzog]

Hi Luiz,

you are right. Almost everything can be configured/customized in lazarus IDE.

But this is really important, because "first impressions count".
Recently I convinced a colleage to install lazarus.
On the first start, the Lazarus IDE really looks uggly and not so professional. 
(on windows plattform)


Sam





 Von: Luiz Americo Pereira Camara 
An: lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org 
Gesendet: 16:33 Samstag, 11.Februar 2012
Betreff: Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize 
(Linux/GTK2)
 
On 10/2/2012 15:48, Samuel Herzog wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> sorry, but this issue was brought up by me.
> 
> I tried to solve http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=1020 which is almost 
> 7 years old. (reported in 2005)
> 
> And I must say, on windows plattform the  Lazarus IDE MainBar really looks 
> uggly.
> The MainBar Height was set to 110. On windows 75pixel looks perfect. So we 
> had 35pixels of just gray colored nothing.
> 
> So we need a flexibel, OS-dependent patch for this issue. Otherwise it might 
> look uggly for another 7 years ;-)

I dont see why all this fuzz.

In my copy of Lazarus (win32) the IDE remember the position of the window.

So, if the user does not like the default height just resize to his desire and 
next time open will show the "correct" height

Luiz

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[Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Ludo Brands]

> > When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error 
> messages in 
> > the console?
> 
> That was misleading, see the response :-(
> 
> Of interest are eventual error messages occuring when the 
> application is 
> started in the IDE (F9).
> 

Put an non-existing component property into a lfm and watch the console when
you load the form ;) 
You get also messages in the IDE but it wasn't clear from the original
message what and if something was visible in the IDE. The console is also
more verbose. 

Ludo


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Luiz Americo Pereira Camara]

On 10/2/2012 15:48, Samuel Herzog wrote:

Hi all,

sorry, but this issue was brought up by me.

I tried to solve http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=1020 which is 
almost 7 years old. (reported in 2005)


And I must say, on windows plattform the  Lazarus IDE MainBar really 
looks uggly.
The MainBar Height was set to 110. On windows 75pixel looks perfect. 
So we had 35pixels of just gray colored nothing.


So we need a flexibel, OS-dependent patch for this issue. Otherwise it 
might look uggly for another 7 years ;-)


I dont see why all this fuzz.

In my copy of Lazarus (win32) the IDE remember the position of the window.

So, if the user does not like the default height just resize to his 
desire and next time open will show the "correct" height


Luiz

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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Ludo Brands schrieb:
Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't 
display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds 
suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite 
frankly I don't know where to start.



When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error messages in the
console?


That was misleading, see the response :-(

Of interest are eventual error messages occuring when the application is 
started in the IDE (F9).


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Martin schrieb:


We have 3 cases

1) correct and good documentation. No note was ever attached, or if it 
was, then it was in error and removal is appropriate


2) empty or meaningless. (can be seen of a kind of wrong, but not 
"incorrect" or "untrue").

We do not need a note to tell the end user "This is meaningless/empty"


The notes are for the authors, not for the end user.


3) incorrect , untrue
Does not need a note. Does need immediate removal.


4 ff) incomplete, misleading, inconsistent...
This is the right place for notes, telling the *experts* to let their 
experience shine here.



IMO you are miles away from practical documentation. Readers and writers 
are not kind of compilers, which throw hints, warnings or fatal errors 
on every word or phrase in a documentation. Most developers think that 
their identifiers or implementations are self explanatory. Users can 
have a very different experience with the same items :-(


Which of your classes is applicable to a misspelled (or renamed) 
reference? Including the right suggested action?


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] TDBLookupComboBox listing from TMemDataSet

[Luiz Americo Pereira Camara]

On 10/2/2012 17:03, Everton Vieira wrote:

Sorry, they are not able to insert or modify, they make nothing when 
LookupCache is False.



What Lazarus version are using?

Versions from trunk have no difference when LookupCache is True or False

Can you post a simple example?

Luiz


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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:

Seeing the discussions about annotating the documentation created by FPDoc, 
I added support for notes.

(revision 20304)


Thanks :-)


In short:

At the level of the ,  and  tags, you can now 
include a  tag.


Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the intended usage 
of this feature?


Yes. User notes on a website. 
This website has been in the pipeline for a long time.




They are typeset as an unordered list, which means that it can basically 
contain the same things as a  element.

(so no tables, code blocks and what not).

By default, the  tag is ignored.

Only if you give fpdoc the --emit-notes option, then the notes will be 
included in the output.

(at least in HTML and all linear output).


It looks to me as if you only implemented only half of a possibly much more 
powerful feature. Provided that your intention is about *conditional* parts, 
which are formatted for inclusion into the final docs, I'm missing more 
detailed condition handling. Then it would be possible to e.g. provide 
documention specific to a platform or widgetset, wherever different 
implementations or behaviour suggest such separate documentation.


Apart from that, author/editor notes deserve no special structure or 
formatting, and should be easier to insert (what about LazDE?).


What about a less structured solution, e.g.
 
for an alternative use of the just introduced tag?


You must be joking ?

Let me recapitulate.

1. You were complaining that you cannot enter notes.

2. You make do with [note whatever] in current lazarus docs.

3. People seem to agree some kind of note functionality is in order.

4. Noting all this, I can see the use of author's notes, and decide to add
   a feature for notes, which is extensible if need be, and can be added to
   any editor with a minimum of effort, making them easy to manage.
   As a bonus, they come in handy for a  long-standing idea, namely,
   a collaborative website for creating docs.

And now you have the incredible nerve to complain that

a) it is "too complicated"

b) "notes deserve no structure or formatting"

c) it "misses features for conditionals" in a "more powerful solution"

Disregarding the fact that I think your complaints are simply contradicting 
each other I am simply *apalled* at the fact you have the guts to complain.


Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

zeljko wrote:

> On Saturday 11 of February 2012 15:00:35 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> If I use the trunk IDE built for Qt rather than GTK2 then the form
>> displays (some colours might be off), the project will compile but
>> won't run reliably (thread issues?). To emphasise this, this is with
>> all project files identical.

> What thread issues you expect with Qt ?

I don't expect any problems at all: this code was working until a few 
weeks ago. However I note Henry's "Blank window" thread starting on the 
26th January.


> Maybe Qt lib have some problems under sparc.

> Ok, there might be some change which isn't good for sparc. Can you
> find revision which broken things ?

This is not SPARC: it's bog-standard x86 on Linux (Debian "Squeeze").

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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 15:02, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

What about a less structured solution, e.g.

for an alternative use of the just introduced tag?
(exact syntax to be specified)


That example would be a violation of the XML specification. The 
following would have been sufficient:


XYZ deserves a clarification

Though I suspect that Michael had his reasons to implement it in the way 
that is implemented now.


Rgeards,
Sve

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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 15:10, zeljko wrote:

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 12:46:48 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

 > zeljko schrieb:

 > > Have you tried with LCLIntf.GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENUSIZE) ?

 > >

 > > I guess it'll return something under win32, but it's not
implemented for

 > > others yet (I guess it shouldn't be too hard to implement it)

 >

 > Ah, that nasty difference between outer (form bounds) and inner (client

 > area) sizes, which was never solved for non-Windows platforms :-(


for non-Windows ? Are you saying that under lclwin32 Form.Width <>
Form.ClientWidth ?


Quick test on Win32 using 0.9.31 (around two weeks old) using event 
handlers for OnShow and OnResize: No, it's not the case.


Regards,
Sven


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Mattias Gaertner]

Martin  hat am 11. Februar 2012 um 14:59 geschrieben:

>[...]



> We have 3 cases>
> 1) correct and good documentation. No note was ever attached, or if it
> was, then it was in error and removal is appropriate
>
> 2) empty or meaningless. (can be seen of a kind of wrong, but not
> "incorrect" or "untrue").
> We do not need a note to tell the end user "This is meaningless/empty"


"Empty" is clear.
But it is not always clear if something is "meaningless".
For example a description "loads a file" for a method LoadFromFile is like
stating the obvious. But when this term is translated it becomes helpful.



> > 3) incorrect , untrue
> Does not need a note. Does need immediate removal.


+1



> > >
> >
> > >> Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what*
> > should be
> > >> implemented at all.
> >
> > That's the problem: If someone knows that it cannot be as documented
> > it does not automatically mean that he knows how it would be correct.
> > Still I would prefer to be informed about a documentation error
> > instead of letting me believe wrong things.
> So we need a place to list those things.
>
> The final doc (or anything that will be in it) is not the place.


See the new fpdoc feature.


>
> Then (as long as we have nothing better) use the bug-tracker.  (I do not
> favour that, but it is the better place)


I doubt that this is practical. Creating one bug report per item would
create too much overhead. Creating bug reports with multiple entries does
not work well.



> > Or ask on the mailing list and fix, once you got an answer
>
> >
> > > It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it
worse.
> >
> > I don't think so. It may be not very elegant. But you made it worse
> > again. Why didn't you take the hint and correct the documenation? That
> > would have been a real improvement.
>
> Maybe he didn't know either



Mattias
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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 11:26, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
 wrote:
Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what* 
should be
implemented at all. If you can't see that yourself, then you better 
keep

your hands off the documentation.


It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it worse.


They are *intended* to make it *so* worse, that the gurus (Lazarus 
team) finally decide to contribute the required documentation, instead 
of only inventing new features :-]


That assumes the person who knows the answer is actually looking at that 
doc-entry. Not necessarily the case.


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[zeljko]

On Friday 10 of February 2012 18:48:44 Samuel Herzog wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> sorry, but this issue was brought up by me.
> 
> I tried to solve http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=1020 which is
> almost 7 years old. (reported in 2005)
> 
> 
> And I must say, on windows plattform the  Lazarus IDE MainBar really looks
> uggly.
> 
> The MainBar Height was set to 110. On windows 75pixel looks perfect. So we
> had 35pixels of just gray colored nothing.
> 
> 
> So we need a flexibel, OS-dependent patch for this issue. Otherwise it
> might look uggly for another 7 years ;-)
> 
> I tried yesterday to make a new dynamic patch, but I was not able to determ
> the height of the mainmenu. Will continue tonight.

@Samuel, I've implemented SM_CYMENU for qt and gtk2 today (under win32 it 
already works), so you can finish your implementation and attach patch 
somewhere  LCLIntf.GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENU) returns complete menubar 
height.

zeljko
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Re: [Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 15:00:35 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> 
> If I use the trunk IDE built for Qt rather than GTK2 then the form
> displays (some colours might be off), the project will compile but won't
> run reliably (thread issues?). To emphasise this, this is with all
> project files identical.

What thread issues you expect with Qt ? Maybe Qt lib have some problems under 
sparc.

> 
> If I stop the trunk IDE, delete ~/.lazarus and start fixed (0.9.30.3)
> instead then the form is fully visible near the middle of the screen.
> Again, this is with identical files.
> 
> There are issues related to building the project using fixed, but I can
> probably revert to an earlier version of the code from my local svn i.e.
> back out of any UI "pollution" caused by trunk.

Ok, there might be some change which isn't good for sparc. Can you find 
revision which broken things ?

zeljko
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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 11:26, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
 wrote:



Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what* 
should be
implemented at all. If you can't see that yourself, then you better 
keep

your hands off the documentation.


It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it worse.


They are *intended* to make it *so* worse, that the gurus (Lazarus 
team) finally decide to contribute the required documentation, instead 
of only inventing new features

blackmail?

:-]

(apply that emoticon, to my answer too)




As a doctor would say: cure the disease, not only the symptoms.

You want the right thing, that was never doubted. And that needs no defense.

The discussion is about the way you choose


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 12:46:48 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> zeljko schrieb:
> > Have you tried with LCLIntf.GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENUSIZE) ?
> > 
> > I guess it'll return something under win32, but it's not implemented for
> > others yet (I guess it shouldn't be too hard to implement it)
> 
> Ah, that nasty difference between outer (form bounds) and inner (client
> area) sizes, which was never solved for non-Windows platforms :-(

for non-Windows ? Are you saying that under lclwin32 Form.Width <> 
Form.ClientWidth ?


> It's hard to believe that there exist reasonable widgetsets *without* a
> feature to map a fixed client size into the according window size.

Believe or not under X11 such results are unpredictible while created window 
isn't visible (mapped) yet. Event freedesktop standards give warnings about it 
- since WM handles frame extents (borders, title bar) and it's up to wm when 
we will get it - so you are NEVER 100% sure that eg. QWidget_frameGeometry() 
includes decorations from WM (title and borders) ...

zeljko


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 10:10, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Anders E. Andersen schrieb:

I just want to say I tend to agree with Martin here. I'd much rather 
have something like a discussion page like on a wiki for comments 
like that. It doesn't look good as part of the main documentation in 
my opinion.


That's a perfectly acceptable opinion. But which solution do you prefer:
- the documentation flaws should be fixed,
- or all the notes should be hidden in the final docs?


You make it sound like answering yes to one of the question, does force 
a no to the other. That is not the case.


- I want the flaws fixed
- I do not want the notes

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Re: [Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:

Seeing the discussions about annotating the documentation created by 
FPDoc, I added support for notes.

(revision 20304)


Thanks :-)


In short:

At the level of the ,  and  tags, you can now 
include a  tag.


Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.


Why so complicated? Can you give a *reasonable* example of the intended 
usage of this feature?


They are typeset as an unordered list, which means that it can basically 
contain the same things as a  element.

(so no tables, code blocks and what not).

By default, the  tag is ignored.

Only if you give fpdoc the --emit-notes option, then the notes will be 
included in the output.

(at least in HTML and all linear output).


It looks to me as if you only implemented only half of a possibly much 
more powerful feature. Provided that your intention is about 
*conditional* parts, which are formatted for inclusion into the final 
docs, I'm missing more detailed condition handling. Then it would be 
possible to e.g. provide documention specific to a platform or 
widgetset, wherever different implementations or behaviour suggest such 
separate documentation.


Apart from that, author/editor notes deserve no special structure or 
formatting, and should be easier to insert (what about LazDE?).


What about a less structured solution, e.g.
  
for an alternative use of the just introduced tag?
(exact syntax to be specified)

In contrast to:
  XYZ deserves a clarification.
or

  On Win32 ...
  On Linux ...




The fpdoc XML project file also supports the emit-notes option.

I have documented all this it in the official fpdoc reference guide. 
(rev. 890)


Available how/where? 
 still is 
from 2008.


Okay, found it - but it should be accessible easier, without rebuilding 
all the FPC docs. Above questions/annotations still apply, examples welcome.


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Ludo Brands wrote:
When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error 
messages in 

the console?

Nothing unexpected :-(

0 1>markMLl@pye-dev-07:/usr/local/share/lazarus-trunk$ ./*gtk2
Xlib:  extension "RANDR" missing on display "localhost:11.0".
TMainIDE.ParseCmdLineOptions:
   PrimaryConfigPath="/home/markMLl/.lazarus"
   SecondaryConfigPath="/etc/lazarus"
NOTE: codetools config file not found - using defaults
NOTE: help options config file not found - using defaults 
TMainIDE.DoOpenProjectFile select form in designer: 
HeavyWethersForm:THeavyWethersForm TDesigner




So there is no problem with components not being created because of
properties not understood, etc.
 
Could you take a look at the main form's lfm to check if the form

coordinates (top, left, width, height) are well inside the screen. I don't
remember the exact circumstances but there was in the past a problem with
coordinates moving out every time the form was saved. Your form could simply
be off screen or 1 pixel heigh.


I think I've been ambiguous again. Running trunk the form displays near 
the top-left of the screen but only postage stamp size. Portions of the 
internal visible controls are visible, but again they're smaller than 
the form and are displayed near its top left (i.e. the top left of the 
form doesn't look too bad, but most of it is empty).


If I use the trunk IDE built for Qt rather than GTK2 then the form 
displays (some colours might be off), the project will compile but won't 
run reliably (thread issues?). To emphasise this, this is with all 
project files identical.


If I stop the trunk IDE, delete ~/.lazarus and start fixed (0.9.30.3) 
instead then the form is fully visible near the middle of the screen. 
Again, this is with identical files.


There are issues related to building the project using fixed, but I can 
probably revert to an earlier version of the code from my local svn i.e. 
back out of any UI "pollution" caused by trunk.


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Martin]

On 11/02/2012 10:59, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:
> It is not about liking, I think it is just plainly obvious that if
> someone downloads our software and builds our docs, presses F1 and
> reads [really?] it makes us look ridiculous so it is not acceptable to
> have that in our documentation.

Well, my opinion is: I would prefer to have a hint that something is 
wrong in the documentation instead of letting me believe it is correct 
if it's not. It's a kind of "watch out" which lets me have a closer 
look when things do not work as expected. If you don't want this in 
the documentation then *correct* it instead of reverting back to 
faulty documentation.

We have 3 cases

1) correct and good documentation. No note was ever attached, or if it 
was, then it was in error and removal is appropriate


2) empty or meaningless. (can be seen of a kind of wrong, but not 
"incorrect" or "untrue").

We do not need a note to tell the end user "This is meaningless/empty"

3) incorrect , untrue
Does not need a note. Does need immediate removal.




>> Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what* 
should be

>> implemented at all.

That's the problem: If someone knows that it cannot be as documented 
it does not automatically mean that he knows how it would be correct. 
Still I would prefer to be informed about a documentation error 
instead of letting me believe wrong things.

So we need a place to list those things.

The final doc (or anything that will be in it) is not the place.

Then (as long as we have nothing better) use the bug-tracker.  (I do not 
favour that, but it is the better place)


Or ask on the mailing list and fix, once you got an answer



> It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it worse.

I don't think so. It may be not very elegant. But you made it worse 
again. Why didn't you take the hint and correct the documenation? That 
would have been a real improvement.


Maybe he didn't know either


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Re: [Lazarus] Fast drawing to canvas

[Reimar Grabowski]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:48:19 +0100
Sven Barth  wrote:

> How would one set matrices then? (<= this is a question out of curiosity)
Passing them as uniforms to the shader program for example.

R.

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[Lazarus] RE : RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Ludo Brands]

> > When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error 
> messages in 
> > the console?
> 
> Nothing unexpected :-(
> 
> 0 1>markMLl@pye-dev-07:/usr/local/share/lazarus-trunk$ ./*gtk2
> Xlib:  extension "RANDR" missing on display "localhost:11.0".
> TMainIDE.ParseCmdLineOptions:
>PrimaryConfigPath="/home/markMLl/.lazarus"
>SecondaryConfigPath="/etc/lazarus"
> NOTE: codetools config file not found - using defaults
> NOTE: help options config file not found - using defaults 
> TMainIDE.DoOpenProjectFile select form in designer: 
> HeavyWethersForm:THeavyWethersForm TDesigner
> 

So there is no problem with components not being created because of
properties not understood, etc.
 
Could you take a look at the main form's lfm to check if the form
coordinates (top, left, width, height) are well inside the screen. I don't
remember the exact circumstances but there was in the past a problem with
coordinates moving out every time the form was saved. Your form could simply
be off screen or 1 pixel heigh.

Ludo


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Re: [Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Ludo Brands wrote:
Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't 
display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds 
suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite 
frankly I don't know where to start.



When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error messages in the
console? 


Nothing unexpected :-(

0 1>markMLl@pye-dev-07:/usr/local/share/lazarus-trunk$ ./*gtk2
Xlib:  extension "RANDR" missing on display "localhost:11.0".
TMainIDE.ParseCmdLineOptions:
  PrimaryConfigPath="/home/markMLl/.lazarus"
  SecondaryConfigPath="/etc/lazarus"
NOTE: codetools config file not found - using defaults
NOTE: help options config file not found - using defaults
TMainIDE.DoOpenProjectFile select form in designer: 
HeavyWethersForm:THeavyWethersForm TDesigner


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Re: [Lazarus] Fast drawing to canvas

[Sven Barth]

On 11.02.2012 12:12, Reimar Grabowski wrote:

   glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW);
   glLoadIdentity();

These are all deprecated but still available since OpenGL 3 (2008) and removed 
in 3.1 (if you create an OpenGL 3 and up only context - 2009), as they belong 
to the fixed function pipeline. They were run on the CPU anyway so if you 
really need this kind of matrix manipulations you can just implement them 
yourself (as most people using OpenGL have done anyway since you need to know 
your matrices for many tasks and OpenGL had no fast way to retrieve them).


How would one set matrices then? (<= this is a question out of curiosity)


lol! But just read any OpenGL tutorial which you can imagine. It
always starts with glBegin, glEnd and boom ... doesnt work in OpenGL
ES. And, read the code here:

glBegin and friends (called immediate mode) was unefficient since 1997 and a 
bad idea to be used in production code. Normal mesh sizes start around 1000 
vertices nowadays most are much larger. You do not want to specify such 
structures with glBegin/glEnd. You must layout your data in special ways to get 
the most from your hardware. This is just not possible with glBegin/glEnd.
Yes, it was used a lot in tutorials but that doesn't change the above.


The deprecation of glBegin/glEnd I knew already :)

Regards,
Sven

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[Lazarus] RE : Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Ludo Brands]

> Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't 
> display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds 
> suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite 
> frankly I don't know where to start.
> 
When starting lazarus from console, do you get any error messages in the
console? 

Ludo


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Re: [Lazarus] Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Mark Morgan Lloyd schrieb:
I'm in an uncomfortable situation where the last few weeks' worth of 
trunk won't display a project's main form (populated only with 
standard controls) and won't compile it to anything reliable (noting 
other discussion, it's got a background thread). I got here because of 
fixes to the SPARC code generation which propelled me onto FPC 2.7.1, 
and fixes to Lazarus's gdb interface. After investigation yesterday 
I'm fairly confident that this problem is not CPU-specific, the first 
part (form display) appears to be something to do with GTK2.


Can you insert debug code, to write the form coordinates, Visible etc. 
information into the console (or log file)?


Sorry, I think I might have been ambiguous. It's the IDE which won't 
display the form when it tries to load the project, so it sounds 
suspiciously as though I might have to instrument IDE code- and quite 
frankly I don't know where to start.


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Re: [Lazarus] Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Mark Morgan Lloyd schrieb:
I'm in an uncomfortable situation where the last few weeks' worth of 
trunk won't display a project's main form (populated only with standard 
controls) and won't compile it to anything reliable (noting other 
discussion, it's got a background thread). I got here because of fixes 
to the SPARC code generation which propelled me onto FPC 2.7.1, and 
fixes to Lazarus's gdb interface. After investigation yesterday I'm 
fairly confident that this problem is not CPU-specific, the first part 
(form display) appears to be something to do with GTK2.


Can you insert debug code, to write the form coordinates, Visible etc. 
information into the console (or log file)?


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

zeljko schrieb:


Have you tried with LCLIntf.GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENUSIZE) ?

I guess it'll return something under win32, but it's not implemented for 
others yet (I guess it shouldn't be too hard to implement it)


Ah, that nasty difference between outer (form bounds) and inner (client 
area) sizes, which was never solved for non-Windows platforms :-(


It's hard to believe that there exist reasonable widgetsets *without* a 
feature to map a fixed client size into the according window size.


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
 wrote:

I only remember that you stated that you don't like such notes.


It is not about liking, I think it is just plainly obvious that if
someone downloads our software and builds our docs, presses F1 and
reads [really?] it makes us look ridiculous so it is not acceptable to
have that in our documentation.


You seem to prefer the Delphi way, where no reasonable help has been 
provided in the last decade, while the help system was changed from 
WinHelp to HtmlHelp?


That's a reasonable decision, but at least Delphi/RadStudio offered to 
download and use the fine D7 help even for the new versions.


My viewpoint is different, I would never start using a product where I 
found the documenation incomplete or wrong. That's why I started to fill 
the gaps in the existing documentation, and to point to all those places 
where I could not find out the truth myself.




Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what* should be
implemented at all. If you can't see that yourself, then you better keep
your hands off the documentation.


It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it worse.


They are *intended* to make it *so* worse, that the gurus (Lazarus team) 
finally decide to contribute the required documentation, instead of only 
inventing new features :-]


As a doctor would say: cure the disease, not only the symptoms.


Just another idea: Can't we delay a solution to the next release?
Then we can have the annotated documentation in the trunk, and a 
finalized version in the release branch.



I didn't want to go into details now, but the following is a good 
example of essential differences between Lazarus versions:



function Arc(DC: HDC; Left,Top,Right,Bottom,Angle16Deg,
Angle16DegLength: Integer): Boolean; {$IFDEF
IF_BASE_MEMBER}virtual;{$ENDIF}

Then just change it to Angle16Deg and Angle16DegLength.


In this case it might be sufficient to only rename the parameters. Other 
drawing functions have changed from/between angles (as above) and arc 
coordinates, with both versions available in TCanvas.Arc (unit Graphics).



From reading
"looks outdated" how am I supposed to know that you mean that the
parameter name is slightlt wrong?


I spent much time in updating the docs to the current LCL code, removing 
old and inserting new parameters. When I came across such changes, I 
considered it a reason for a review of these procedures, to exclude or 
mention possibly more changes.


If I had found the description more than only *possibly* outdated, I had 
replaced it immediately, without adding a revision note.



Ah, another idea: can we leave revision notes in the docs, as invisible 
comments, to indicate when an issue has been revised?


This would require to edit the XML sources directly, what was impossible 
when I revised the documentation for the first time, using LazDE or 
FPDoc Editor. It also would require to verify that no tool removes XML 
comments - here I'm not so sure about LazDE, which heavily reformats the 
raw (unindented) XML files.




As far as I remember I wrote this
documentation, and it is not outdated, I just made a copy+paste error
in the parameter name because the function is nearly identical to its
twin sister from TCanvas and I was documenting both at the same time.


I'm normally very careful when touching other people's texts, that's why 
in this particular case I left the original content in the file, and 
only turned the suspect part in an comment. Aren't we *both* right in 
our assumptions, that the Arc description was (slightly) outdated, but 
was still valid except for the changed parameter names?

Peace? ;-)

In other (more obvious) cases I removed real crap immediately, and 
replaced it by more up-to-date descriptions, as far this was possible 
from the source code. In the case of *abstract* methods it is impossible 
to find out anything about the purpose and inteded implementation of a 
method, due to inexistent source code. I agree that [what?] is not 
always easily understandable, but it should be considered a *strong* 
invitation to the inventors of that method, to supply the missing and 
required information.


Next time I'll try to be more precise, using something like
  [what should the method do in derived classes?]
And I would be happy if such notes are not simply removed. When somebody 
had a look at a note, he may turn it into an XML comment, telling other 
contributors that the content was revised accordingly, and now is in 
more correct or complete state. These comments find their way into the 
repository, at least, even if later on some tool or the author of the 
note may decide to remove them entirely (as resolved).


What do you think about this idea, and those mentioned above?

DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Juha Manninen schrieb:

2012/2/10, Bart :

There is a screenshot aatached to my original post here.


Right, somehow I missed it. Now the problem is clear. You have a
bigger font and its effect is doubled because both main menu and the
component palette tabs have text.


Isn't this a reason for a redesign of (at least) this form, using those 
fine Lazarus layout features?


And reason for a revision of the IDEIntf, to cure the observed problems 
once-for-ever?


IMO it's not a good argument for using Lazarus, when just the IDE 
demonstrates layout problems. Every user will notice such problems 
immediately, and may trash Lazarus consequently, without any closer look 
at the rest :-(


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Hans-Peter Diettrich]

Anders E. Andersen schrieb:

Den 10-02-2012 22:08, Hans-Peter Diettrich skrev:



It is useless, even irritating to the help seeking user

But, any doc to the end user must not contain this.

To me it's more irritating and confusing, when documentation has 
already been found wrong, without any according indication.


Hi, just a regular end-user here.


Hello :-)

I just want to say I tend to agree 
with Martin here. I'd much rather have something like a discussion page 
like on a wiki for comments like that. It doesn't look good as part of 
the main documentation in my opinion.


That's a perfectly acceptable opinion. But which solution do you prefer:
- the documentation flaws should be fixed,
- or all the notes should be hidden in the final docs?

And what chances do *you* see, that the documenation flaws will *ever* 
be fixed, when nobody complains about those nasty notes?


Are you happy with an incomplete and partially outdated documentation, 
as provided by Lazarus in the past decades?


DoDi


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Re: [Lazarus] Fast drawing to canvas

[Reimar Grabowski]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 09:56:21 +0100
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Reimar Grabowski  wrote:
> > 2D projection functions have never been part of OpenGL AFAIK, mind telling 
> > me which functions you talk about?
> 
>   glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION);
>   glLoadIdentity;
>   glOrtho(0, OpenGLControl1.Width, OpenGLControl1.Height, 0, 0, 1);
You are right, I forgot this one.

>   glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW);
>   glLoadIdentity();
These are all deprecated but still available since OpenGL 3 (2008) and removed 
in 3.1 (if you create an OpenGL 3 and up only context - 2009), as they belong 
to the fixed function pipeline. They were run on the CPU anyway so if you 
really need this kind of matrix manipulations you can just implement them 
yourself (as most people using OpenGL have done anyway since you need to know 
your matrices for many tasks and OpenGL had no fast way to retrieve them).

>   glDisable(GL_DEPTH_TEST);
>   glViewport(0, 0, OpenGLControl1.Width, OpenGLControl1.Height);
>   glGenTextures(1, @TextureId);
Still available.

>   glTexEnvf(GL_TEXTURE_ENV, GL_TEXTURE_ENV_MODE, GL_MODULATE);
Not needed anymore due to GLSL.
 
> > And nobody forces you to use ES 2 just use 1.x if you like it more.
> 
> Since it is version 2 I suppose people will start dropping support for
> version 1 in the future.
That's not how it normally works in OpenGL. You could use OpenGL without the 
fixed function pipeline since 2.0 (2004). Support was removed in 2009 and only 
if you ask for a special context. If you use a 'standard' context OpenGL 1.0 
code (1992) works on current gen graphics hardware unchanged (unlike old 
DirectX code).
Perhaps on phones they are a little bit faster to deprecate old stuff but I 
don't think vendors will drop support soon.
 
> lol! But just read any OpenGL tutorial which you can imagine. It
> always starts with glBegin, glEnd and boom ... doesnt work in OpenGL
> ES. And, read the code here:
glBegin and friends (called immediate mode) was unefficient since 1997 and a 
bad idea to be used in production code. Normal mesh sizes start around 1000 
vertices nowadays most are much larger. You do not want to specify such 
structures with glBegin/glEnd. You must layout your data in special ways to get 
the most from your hardware. This is just not possible with glBegin/glEnd.
Yes, it was used a lot in tutorials but that doesn't change the above.

> http://svn.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/trunk/components/fpvectorial/examples/fpv3d_mainform.pas?root=lazarus&revision=35186&content-type=text%2Fplain
> Which part of this code works in OpenGL ES 2? And it isnt even 2D, it
> is 3D triangles. Anything from it works at all?
This still works:

glClearColor(1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0);
glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT or GL_DEPTH_BUFFER_BIT);
glEnable(GL_DEPTH_TEST);

:)

The rest no, as it is either immediate mode or fixed function matrix stuff.
You need to learn GLSL (a C like language that runs on the GPU) to do anything 
in modern OpenGL or OpenGL ES 2.x.

> But my real question is: how can you have 1 code for all those OpenGL
> versions to draw 2D bitmaps? Seriously, Id like to know.
Of course you can't. On modern hardware (later than 2004) you should use the 
programmable pipeline for best performance (not available on old cards) and 
even if you use the old fixed function pipeline it is emulated with GLSL 
programs and slower than doing it yourself since too much legacy stuff is 
supported. OpenGL is a low level API and it's design reflects the rapid 
advances in graphics hardware.
OpenGL is suitable for doing 2D stuff but it's main purpose was always 3D 
rendering.

> If it is
> impossible then how can one say they are very similar?
To quote wikipedia:
OpenGL ES 1.0 is drawn up against the OpenGL 1.3 specification,
OpenGL ES 1.1 is defined relative to the OpenGL 1.5 specification and
OpenGL ES 2.0 is defined relative to the OpenGL 2.0 specification.

So OpenGL ES is very similar to OpenGL.

> For me, not beginner friendly is a very strong indicator of a bad design.
OpenGL is a low level graphics lib, as bare to the metal as you can get with 
regard to graphics cards, so it reflects the state of the hardware. Ease of use 
is only a second thought, performance is the important metric. It is meant for 
graphic programmers that are familiar with the concepts.
If you need something simpler you should not use it directly but a graphics lib 
that builds on top of OpenGL optimized for your use case (there are some GUI 
libs out there).
Graphics programming is a complicated topic. Your use case is simple in your 
eyes (because you never had to worry about how the gfx card actually does its 
job, coming from software rendering/drawing), but it is not so common for 
interactive 3D graphics, where some simple quads are good enough for a GUI 
(like in any current game) and most of your time is spent pushing millions of 
vertices to the graphics card animating them and doing advanced lighting 

Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho schrieb:
> It is not about liking, I think it is just plainly obvious that if
> someone downloads our software and builds our docs, presses F1 and
> reads [really?] it makes us look ridiculous so it is not acceptable to
> have that in our documentation.

Well, my opinion is: I would prefer to have a hint that something is 
wrong in the documentation instead of letting me believe it is correct 
if it's not. It's a kind of "watch out" which lets me have a closer look 
when things do not work as expected. If you don't want this in the 
documentation then *correct* it instead of reverting back to faulty 
documentation.



>> Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what* 
should be

>> implemented at all.

That's the problem: If someone knows that it cannot be as documented it 
does not automatically mean that he knows how it would be correct. Still 
I would prefer to be informed about a documentation error instead of 
letting me believe wrong things.



> It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it worse.

I don't think so. It may be not very elegant. But you made it worse 
again. Why didn't you take the hint and correct the documenation? That 
would have been a real improvement.




> Then just change it to Angle16Deg and Angle16DegLength. From reading
> "looks outdated" how am I supposed to know that you mean that the
> parameter name is slightlt wrong?

If you don't know this how should others know it?


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[Lazarus] Adding Notes in FPDoc

[Michael Van Canneyt]

Hi,

Seeing the discussions about annotating the documentation created by FPDoc, I 
added support for notes.
(revision 20304)

In short:

At the level of the ,  and  tags, you can now include a 
 tag.

Within the  tag, you can include one or more  tags.

They are typeset as an unordered list, which means that it can basically contain the 
same things as a  element.
(so no tables, code blocks and what not).

By default, the  tag is ignored.

Only if you give fpdoc the --emit-notes option, then the notes will be included 
in the output.
(at least in HTML and all linear output).

The fpdoc XML project file also supports the emit-notes option.

I have documented all this it in the official fpdoc reference guide. (rev. 890)

As a side note: 
The official FPC documentation will not contain notes in the output. 
I consider them for private use only, so it is useless to submit notes.

But I can understand other people want such a feature, therefor I added it to 
fpdoc.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 09:10:49 Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> I'm in an uncomfortable situation where the last few weeks' worth of
> trunk won't display a project's main form (populated only with standard
> controls) and won't compile it to anything reliable (noting other
> discussion, it's got a background thread). I got here because of fixes
> to the SPARC code generation which propelled me onto FPC 2.7.1, and
> fixes to Lazarus's gdb interface. After investigation yesterday I'm
> fairly confident that this problem is not CPU-specific, the first part
> (form display) appears to be something to do with GTK2.

What lazarus svn revision did you use ?
You are talking about gtk2 under X11 + sparc processor ?
zeljko
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Re: [Lazarus] Fast drawing to canvas

[Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Reimar Grabowski  wrote:
> 2D projection functions have never been part of OpenGL AFAIK, mind telling me 
> which functions you talk about?

  glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION);
  glLoadIdentity;
  glOrtho(0, OpenGLControl1.Width, OpenGLControl1.Height, 0, 0, 1);
  glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW);
  glLoadIdentity();
  glDisable(GL_DEPTH_TEST);
  glViewport(0, 0, OpenGLControl1.Width, OpenGLControl1.Height);
  glGenTextures(1, @TextureId);
  glTexEnvf(GL_TEXTURE_ENV, GL_TEXTURE_ENV_MODE, GL_MODULATE);

> OpenGL ES 2.0 did not change everything. It just removed the fixed function 
> pipeline (as OpenGL 3 did) in favor of the programmable one, which is a Good 
> Thing(tm).

Not good for people drawing 2D bitmaps

> And nobody forces you to use ES 2 just use 1.x if you like it more.

Since it is version 2 I suppose people will start dropping support for
version 1 in the future.

> It is not, the two are very, very similar.

lol! But just read any OpenGL tutorial which you can imagine. It
always starts with glBegin, glEnd and boom ... doesnt work in OpenGL
ES. And, read the code here:

http://svn.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/trunk/components/fpvectorial/examples/fpv3d_mainform.pas?root=lazarus&revision=35186&content-type=text%2Fplain

Which part of this code works in OpenGL ES 2? And it isnt even 2D, it
is 3D triangles. Anything from it works at all?

But my real question is: how can you have 1 code for all those OpenGL
versions to draw 2D bitmaps? Seriously, Id like to know. If it is
impossible then how can one say they are very similar?

> This is what it may look like for a beginner.

For me, not beginner friendly is a very strong indicator of a bad design.

-- 
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
 wrote:
> I only remember that you stated that you don't like such notes.

It is not about liking, I think it is just plainly obvious that if
someone downloads our software and builds our docs, presses F1 and
reads [really?] it makes us look ridiculous so it is not acceptable to
have that in our documentation.

> Such an entry is absolutely useless without instructions *what* should be
> implemented at all. If you can't see that yourself, then you better keep
> your hands off the documentation.

It doesn't matter if it wasnt good before. Your [?] tags make it worse.

>> [this looks outdated?]
>> It is not outdated.
> Thanks for confirming your ignorance :-(
...
> If you had taken a look at Arc(), you certainly had noticed that the
> parameters "angle1" and "angle2" do not exist any more. Do you need better
> glasses?

function Arc(DC: HDC; Left,Top,Right,Bottom,Angle16Deg,
Angle16DegLength: Integer): Boolean; {$IFDEF
IF_BASE_MEMBER}virtual;{$ENDIF}

Then just change it to Angle16Deg and Angle16DegLength. From reading
"looks outdated" how am I supposed to know that you mean that the
parameter name is slightlt wrong? As far as I remember I wrote this
documentation, and it is not outdated, I just made a copy+paste error
in the parameter name because the function is nearly identical to its
twin sister from TCanvas and I was documenting both at the same time.

-- 
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

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Re: [Lazarus] Documentation contribution

[Anders E. Andersen]

Den 10-02-2012 22:08, Hans-Peter Diettrich skrev:



It is useless, even irritating to the help seeking user

But, any doc to the end user must not contain this.

To me it's more irritating and confusing, when documentation has 
already been found wrong, without any according indication.


Hi, just a regular end-user here. I just want to say I tend to agree 
with Martin here. I'd much rather have something like a discussion page 
like on a wiki for comments like that. It doesn't look good as part of 
the main documentation in my opinion.


Anders

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[Lazarus] Trunk IDE won't display project's main form

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

I'm in an uncomfortable situation where the last few weeks' worth of 
trunk won't display a project's main form (populated only with standard 
controls) and won't compile it to anything reliable (noting other 
discussion, it's got a background thread). I got here because of fixes 
to the SPARC code generation which propelled me onto FPC 2.7.1, and 
fixes to Lazarus's gdb interface. After investigation yesterday I'm 
fairly confident that this problem is not CPU-specific, the first part 
(form display) appears to be something to do with GTK2.


I've got two questions:

i)  If anybody thinks this is worth raising as a bug, what is the 
maximum amount of the project that I can attach as an example? I'm not 
confident that I can remove stuff from it using any Lazarus that can 
read and display it properly, but I presume that nobody'd want a project 
containing a dozen or so files.


ii) Allowing that the GUI-oriented stuff hasn't changed significantly in 
the program since it was on 0.9.30, how can I take the project and force 
it to be saved without any recently-introduced properties which now make 
reading unreliable on anything older than trunk?


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] IDE Main Window: height is too small and cannot resize (Linux/GTK2)

[zeljko]

On Saturday 11 of February 2012 08:47:42 zeljko wrote:
> On Friday 10 of February 2012 18:48:44 Samuel Herzog wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > sorry, but this issue was brought up by me.
> > 
> > I tried to solve http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=1020 which is
> > almost 7 years old. (reported in 2005)
> > 
> > 
> > And I must say, on windows plattform the  Lazarus IDE MainBar really
> > looks uggly.
> > 
> > The MainBar Height was set to 110. On windows 75pixel looks perfect. So
> > we had 35pixels of just gray colored nothing.
> > 
> > 
> > So we need a flexibel, OS-dependent patch for this issue. Otherwise it
> > might look uggly for another 7 years ;-)
> > 
> > I tried yesterday to make a new dynamic patch, but I was not able to
> > determ the height of the mainmenu. Will continue tonight.
> 
> Have you tried with LCLIntf.GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENUSIZE) ?
> I guess it'll return something under win32, but it's not implemented for
> others yet (I guess it shouldn't be too hard to implement it)

Sorry, it should be LCLIntf.GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENU)

zeljko
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