Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 64 bits and Firebird !
On 17 March 2012 23:16, Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 March 2012 08:27, Richard Mace wrote: It looks like the latest version of the tiOPF components is back in 2008, is that the case, or are there some more recent ones? Definitively not! You probably looked at the last released version available for download from SourceForge. That is very old - I actually need to delete all those files, because it just confuses everybody. Yes, that would be good. It certainly confused me (although that wouldn't be difficult) I'm a core tiOPF developer. We long ago stopped creating released versions of tiOPF. We have over 1800+ unit tests run every 3 hours using various platforms and compilers to make sure the Trunk branch is ALWAYS in a 100% working condition. I can count on one hand the amount of bugs that got past the unit tests in the last few years. And when they are detected, they are fixed before the next test run, and the unit tests are updated to prove that it was fixed. Wow, that's impressive. So to use tiOPF, simply grab the latest code directly from the source code repository. Use the tiOPF2 branch - that's the one working with FPC. This is all documented on the FPC / Lazarus wiki as well. I'll do that, as tiOPF sounds very interesting and I'd love to have a look at it. Thanks Graeme -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 0.90.34, scroll bars don't work, Ubuntu 11.04
On 18 March 2012 03:10, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 ./lazarus But why doesn't the LCL-GTK2 work with those new scrollbars? I thought those new scrollbars should just work with any native GTK2 application. OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc are exceptions, because they actually have there own custom widget sets built-in. They were never pure GTK2 applications under Linux. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 0.90.34, scroll bars don't work, Ubuntu 11.04
On Sunday 18 of March 2012 08:29:53 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 18 March 2012 03:10, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 ./lazarus But why doesn't the LCL-GTK2 work with those new scrollbars? I thought those new scrollbars should just work with any native GTK2 application. OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc are exceptions, because they actually have there own custom widget sets built-in. They were never pure GTK2 applications under Linux. Many gtk2 applications don't work with liboverlay, but it's hidden from you inside liboverlay (names of such applications are hardcoded inside library). zeljko -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?
On 17.03.2012 22:14, Ajeandro Gonzalo wrote: Oh, it's more than just annoying. It causes applications using Advantage Database components to crash, especially if you forget to add adsdata to the uses clause (no, I don't know why ADS doesn't add that automatically). Lazarus then doesn't allow you to enter the form again so you have to delete and start all over again - no fun! PLEASE REMOVE THIS UNNEEDED AND UNWELCOME FEATURE Also this is no feature, it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least). Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Updates to Synedit and 64 bit have linking problems
Hello, I tried to compile Lazarus today from svn (after two weeks of not updating it), and got the following error message: lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas(722,13) Error: Asm: [movsxd mem64,reg32] invalid combination of opcode and operands It happens at lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas Line 722 for the code of: Result := FoldBlockEndLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter) - FoldBlockMinLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter); I'm attaching patch to fix it. Ido synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas.patch.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Xubuntu, Lazarus and project stored and built on a pendrive with ntfs
2012/3/18 Gustavo Enrique Jimenez gejime...@gmail.com: hi all: Not executing programs from external file systems is a kernel option adopted by many linux distros, I think. You should copy the program to the local filesystem and change permissions to execute it. I see what you say. thx Salvatore 2012/3/17 Bernd Kreuss prof7...@googlemail.com: On 17.03.2012 23:08, Salvatore Coppola wrote: I'm low level user so can you take a look, is how you supposed? Somehow somewhere the default mount options can be changed in xubuntu. I assume you want it to have it mounted with exec bits set every time you plug it in, maybe you should consult the ubuntu forums where these default options for xubuntu's automounting daemon are hidden and where the correct place is to make these changes (its probably some gnome thingy running in the background and xubuntu with its minimal interface probably does not have an UI to configure it). The people on the ubuntu forums should be able to help, they know this system inside out. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Xubuntu, Lazarus and project stored and built on a pendrive with ntfs
2012/3/18 Bernd Kreuss prof7...@googlemail.com: On 17.03.2012 23:08, Salvatore Coppola wrote: I'm low level user so can you take a look, is how you supposed? Somehow somewhere the default mount options can be changed in xubuntu. I assume you want it to have it mounted with exec bits set every time you plug it in, maybe you should consult the ubuntu forums where these default options for xubuntu's automounting daemon are hidden and where the correct place is to make these changes (its probably some gnome thingy running in the background and xubuntu with its minimal interface probably does not have an UI to configure it). The people on the ubuntu forums should be able to help, they know this system inside out. Thx for the reply, i'll follow your hint. If I get a solution i'ill post here in this thread, otherwise I'll change distro Salvatore -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Updates to Synedit and 64 bit have linking problems
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 10:50:27 +0200 ik ido...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I tried to compile Lazarus today from svn (after two weeks of not updating it), and got the following error message: lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas(722,13) Error: Asm: [movsxd mem64,reg32] invalid combination of opcode and operands It happens at lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas Line 722 for the code of: Result := FoldBlockEndLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter) - FoldBlockMinLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter); It compiles here. What compiler version has problems with it? I'm attaching patch to fix it. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Updates to Synedit and 64 bit have linking problems
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 12:08, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 10:50:27 +0200 ik ido...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I tried to compile Lazarus today from svn (after two weeks of not updating it), and got the following error message: lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas(722,13) Error: Asm: [movsxd mem64,reg32] invalid combination of opcode and operands It happens at lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas Line 722 for the code of: Result := FoldBlockEndLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter) - FoldBlockMinLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter); It compiles here. What compiler version has problems with it? 2.6.0 x86_64 I'm attaching patch to fix it. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Updates to Synedit and 64 bit have linking problems
18.03.2012 14:08, Mattias Gaertner пишет: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 10:50:27 +0200 ikido...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I tried to compile Lazarus today from svn (after two weeks of not updating it), and got the following error message: lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas(722,13) Error: Asm: [movsxd mem64,reg32] invalid combination of opcode and operands It happens at lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas Line 722 for the code of: Result := FoldBlockEndLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter) - FoldBlockMinLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter); It compiles here. What compiler version has problems with it? This bug (Mantis #20850) has been fixed in FPC revision 19848. IIRC you also need to compile with -O2 to trigger it. Regards, Sergei -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Dockable IDE
Martin schrieb: On that part, I wondered why the old layout stuff was totally abandoned. ? The classes in ideintf\idewindowintf.pas Really? This would explain why the EasyDockMaster will fail now, using the old stuff. No no no you miss understand They are not abandoned, they work well in none docked IDE (*and they store the column widths for debug windows) I couldn't verify that column widths are stored in the undocked IDE. I only could verify that the IDE may not close any more, depending on unknown conditions :-( Only AnchorDocking does not use them (EasyDock I have not checked, do not know) Mattias provided the RegisterEasyDockMgr unit, it's up to him to adopt it to new conventions, or to document the interface in a way that somebody else can implement or use it. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [fpc-devel] Re: How to iterate through a TAvgLvlTree
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:20 AM, Mattias Gaertner nc-gaert...@netcologne.de wrote: I implemented a TIndexedAVLTree. Great! thanks a lot =) -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Lazarus crashing reproducibly on startup (64-bit Linux)
I've recently switched distros to Mint Debian 12 64-bit XFCE. This is on an AMD Phenom *4, 4 GB of RAM. When I was reinstalling stuff I noticed that the latest version of Lazarus that they have in the repo is 0.9.28, a bit old I know, but it works for what I do. So I installed 0.9.28, which also brought in FPC 2.4.0-2. When I try to run Lazarus from the menus, I get the splash screen and then nothing, the IDE never comes up. So, I switched to a terminal, ran startlazarus and got the following output. [WARNING] Out of OEM specific VK codes, changing to unassigned [WARNING] Out of unassigned VK codes, assigning $FF TLazarusManager.Run starting /usr/lib/lazarus/0.9.28.2/lazarus ... Runtime error 203 at $00736A16 $00736A16 $00720991 OK, maybe it's an old version. I downloaded the latest .DEBs from SourceForge, and installed those. No change in the symptoms (well, OK, I can't say the addresses were exactly the same, but the bit about the VK codes was, and it was still a runtime error 203). I cleaned out everything to do with Lazarus and FPC that I could find (using KFind to make sure I got everything) and had one more try with 0.9.28. As expected, still the same error. I know that 0.9.28 used to run on Mint 9 64-bit, but that was the Ubuntu-based version, not the Debian-based one. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this, please? Brian. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Updates to Synedit and 64 bit have linking problems
On 18/03/2012 08:50, ik wrote: Hello, I tried to compile Lazarus today from svn (after two weeks of not updating it), and got the following error message: lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas(722,13) Error: Asm: [movsxd mem64,reg32] invalid combination of opcode and operands It happens at lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas Line 722 for the code of: Result := FoldBlockEndLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter) - FoldBlockMinLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter); I'm attaching patch to fix it. Which FPC version? Have you created an FPC bug report? This is clearly an FPC bug. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Updates to Synedit and 64 bit have linking problems
On 18/03/2012 08:50, ik wrote: Hello, I tried to compile Lazarus today from svn (after two weeks of not updating it), and got the following error message: lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas(722,13) Error: Asm: [movsxd mem64,reg32] invalid combination of opcode and operands It happens at lazarus/components/synedit/synedithighlighterfoldbase.pas Line 722 for the code of: Result := FoldBlockEndLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter) - FoldBlockMinLevel(ALineIndex, AFilter); I'm attaching patch to fix it. Seen the responses. Since it seems to affect the current release, I am willing ta apply a workaround patch, but: - the workaround should be IFDEF to the affected Target CPU - must have a comment: Todo: workaround for bug x. Remove when 2.6.2 is released -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?
Sven Barth schrieb: Also this is no feature, it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least). Although I have arranged with it now it annoyed me too. No other program (including Free Pascal text mode IDE) forces the user to have a file/project open all the time. It's a bit weird that it was designed like this. What was the reason for doing this? What advantage does it have? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?
On 18/03/2012 14:29, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Sven Barth schrieb: Also this is no feature, it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least). Although I have arranged with it now it annoyed me too. No other program (including Free Pascal text mode IDE) forces the user to have a file/project open all the time. It's a bit weird that it was designed like this. What was the reason for doing this? What advantage does it have? Currently the IDE simply needs the project structure. E.g. If you open a file in the editor, info about it is added to your session (CaretXY, Topline, Tab, ...), which is part of the project. This is simply how things have gone over time. I doubt someone will remember, why some decision was taken 5 or more years ago. There is no rule that says it can not be changed. But to do so (and to do so in a way that is compatible: e.g. can read and use old config, session, projects...) is a major task. So the reason it isn't changed now, is lack of time / other priorities. Of course, there would be a quick fix: Instead of showing the modal dialog, disable ALL menus and ALL keyboard, except new/open project. (Must include installed packages, as they also may (may or may not) rely on an open project) That is not really useful at all either. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?
On 18.03.2012 15:29, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Sven Barth schrieb: Also this is no feature, it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least). Although I have arranged with it now it annoyed me too. No other program (including Free Pascal text mode IDE) forces the user to have a file/project open all the time. It's a bit weird that it was designed like this. What was the reason for doing this? What advantage does it have? I believe most users are annoyed by this at the beginning (me included ;) ). In my previous mail I also didn't defend the concept, but merely stated the facts (core concept and not going to be changed in the nearest future). Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus crashing reproducibly on startup (64-bit Linux)
brian wrote: I've recently switched distros to Mint Debian 12 64-bit XFCE. This is on an AMD Phenom *4, 4 GB of RAM. When I was reinstalling stuff I noticed that the latest version of Lazarus that they have in the repo is 0.9.28, a bit old I know, but it works for what I do. So I installed 0.9.28, which also brought in FPC 2.4.0-2. When I try to run Lazarus from the menus, I get the splash screen and then nothing, the IDE never comes up. So, I switched to a terminal, ran startlazarus and got the following output. [WARNING] Out of OEM specific VK codes, changing to unassigned [WARNING] Out of unassigned VK codes, assigning $FF TLazarusManager.Run starting /usr/lib/lazarus/0.9.28.2/lazarus ... Runtime error 203 at $00736A16 $00736A16 $00720991 OK, maybe it's an old version. I downloaded the latest .DEBs from SourceForge, and installed those. No change in the symptoms (well, OK, I can't say the addresses were exactly the same, but the bit about the VK codes was, and it was still a runtime error 203). I cleaned out everything to do with Lazarus and FPC that I could find (using KFind to make sure I got everything) and had one more try with 0.9.28. As expected, still the same error. I know that 0.9.28 used to run on Mint 9 64-bit, but that was the Ubuntu-based version, not the Debian-based one. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this, please? Starting at a shell prompt, if you load Lazarus in gdb, run it, wait for the crash and then use GDB's bt command to get a backtrace, do the first few lines say anything useful? -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus crashing reproducibly on startup (64-bit Linux)
On 03/18/2012 11:45 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: brian wrote: I've recently switched distros to Mint Debian 12 64-bit XFCE. This is on an AMD Phenom *4, 4 GB of RAM. When I was reinstalling stuff I noticed that the latest version of Lazarus that they have in the repo is 0.9.28, a bit old I know, but it works for what I do. So I installed 0.9.28, which also brought in FPC 2.4.0-2. When I try to run Lazarus from the menus, I get the splash screen and then nothing, the IDE never comes up. So, I switched to a terminal, ran startlazarus and got the following output. [WARNING] Out of OEM specific VK codes, changing to unassigned [WARNING] Out of unassigned VK codes, assigning $FF TLazarusManager.Run starting /usr/lib/lazarus/0.9.28.2/lazarus ... Runtime error 203 at $00736A16 $00736A16 $00720991 OK, maybe it's an old version. I downloaded the latest .DEBs from SourceForge, and installed those. No change in the symptoms (well, OK, I can't say the addresses were exactly the same, but the bit about the VK codes was, and it was still a runtime error 203). I cleaned out everything to do with Lazarus and FPC that I could find (using KFind to make sure I got everything) and had one more try with 0.9.28. As expected, still the same error. I know that 0.9.28 used to run on Mint 9 64-bit, but that was the Ubuntu-based version, not the Debian-based one. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this, please? Starting at a shell prompt, if you load Lazarus in gdb, run it, wait for the crash and then use GDB's bt command to get a backtrace, do the first few lines say anything useful? Probably not, but this is what was produced using V0.9.28 paste run Starting program: /usr/bin/startlazarus [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x005a2879 in ?? () (gdb) bt #0 0x005a2879 in ?? () #1 0x7fffe1c0 in ?? () #2 0x77de902c in ?? () from /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 #3 0x00502b31 in ?? () #4 0x7577dead in __libc_start_main () from /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 #5 0x in ?? () (gdb) /paste Brian. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?
I just can't see any problem, I like it the way it is. Jether Fernandes Reis -Mensagem Original- De: Jürgen Hestermann juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de Para: Lazarus mailing list lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org Enviada em: domingo, 18 de março de 2012 11:29 Assunto: Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open? Sven Barth schrieb: Also this is no feature, it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least). Although I have arranged with it now it annoyed me too. No other program (including Free Pascal text mode IDE) forces the user to have a file/project open all the time. It's a bit weird that it was designed like this. What was the reason for doing this? What advantage does it have? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?
When you do a New Project, it is virtual until it is saved. It means the project structure is initially only in memory. The GUI could as well hide the project interface and let the user open files and whatever. They would still be saved in a default project's session info but the user would not notice it until he saves the project or opens another one. I think New Project should then be removed completely from the GUI. All actions would go to a default new project anyway if no saved project is selected. The benefit of this approach would be that no memory structures need changes. Still, this is not a big problem. It only bothers new users while they learn the IDE. It does not slow down the actual programming or any other activity you do in Lazarus. It surely should not delay 1.0. If someone wants to make a patch for the GUI changes I suggested, I promise to help with it. Then it could make its way to 1.0 release. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] simple transfer of text data over tcp/ip
I need to make simple transfer of text data over tcp/ip, which socket class the list recomends? (Must run in mac also) Regards, Everton -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Dockable IDE
18.03.12 11:11, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: These are only different implementations of the same (TDockManager) interface. I found LDockTree unusable, failing already on slightly nested layouts. It also lacks layout streaming, required in applications like the IDE. Dunno about the current state, though... I'm still waiting for a justification of: Dodi has implemented an own vision of docking while delphi like docking still works. Alpthough you descend from TDockManager you don't descend from TDockTree which was a trial to implement delphi like dock manager. I never implemented anything Delphi-incompatible, in contrast to anchor docking. I did not mean that you made something incompatible, just that you made an own implementation which Michael probably does not use. Best regards, Paul Ishenin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
