Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015, Tony Whyman wrote: This is a very good idea and IMHO something that should be given a high priority. However, rather than chat about solutions, I'd like to propose some user requirements: 1. The Package Distribution Model should be similar to if not based on the approach used for the Debian and RPM Package Managers. For example, I have my own Debian repository on an intranet that supplements the Ubuntu and Mint repositories and from which I can distribute company applications and backports where the standard package is not sufficiently up-to-date. I would like to be able to do the same with Lazarus/FPC packages. Supported by fppkg. 2. Packages should be similar to deb/rpm packages comprising a standard archive with the files given in their installation layout, plus a list of dependent packages and version information. Supported. Unlike deb/rpm packages, the installation layout should be relative rather than absolute as the target directory should be under the user's account e.g. (/home/tony/.lazarus/packages for Linux). A different location may be preferred for examples - which could be in separate packages. Supported. 3. Locally installed packages (i.e. under the user account) should override and replace packages with the same name installed at the system level. Should be doable. 4. All packages in the repository should be signed (e.g. using a GPG user key). Only packages signed using a known key should be allowed to install. I don't see the point in that. 5. Access to the repository should use http/https allowing the client to GET an individual package or download a list of packages and direct dependencies. Works. 6. The package manager client should have both command line and GUI (part of Lazarus IDE) versions. Can be done with fppkg and fpmake. 7. The client should be configurable with an ordered list of known repositories. Can be done with fppkg and fpmake. 8. The client should allow available packages to be browsed/searched. Can be done. 9. The client should manage a list of known (and trusted) signing (public) keys and validate the signature on any downloaded package. See 4. 10. Selecting a package to be installed should automatically select all required dependencies, installing any that are not currently installed. Supported by fppkg and fpmake. 11. When a runtime package is installed, the package is registered with the IDE and added to the list of known packages. Needs to be implemented. 12. When a design time package is installed, the package manager should offer to rebuild the IDE. Needs to be implemented. 13. When a package is removed, the package manager should offer to remove all otherwise unused dependencies. Needs to be implemented. 14. The package manager should support a check for updates and package upgrade. Partially supported by fppkg. 15. The IDE should be configurable to support an automatic check for updated packages each time it starts. offering to upgrade any out-of-date packages. Needs to be implemented. 16. Implementing the repository as a RESTful service could be interesting, allowing packages to be added and removed using (authenticated) PUT and DELETE methods in true cloud storage fashion. Needs to be implemented, but is an interesting option in combination with the keys. As you see, our requirements when designing fppkg are quite similar to yours. There are only so many ways in which a useful package system can be made. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] What lines of a project run
Is there any way to find out what lines of a project run in all units like a log? For example : unit1 line 345 unit1 line 346 unit1 line 347 unit1 line 348 unit2 line 123 unit2 line 256 unit3 line 1252 unit3 line 1253 Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
This is a very good idea and IMHO something that should be given a high priority. However, rather than chat about solutions, I'd like to propose some user requirements: 1. The Package Distribution Model should be similar to if not based on the approach used for the Debian and RPM Package Managers. For example, I have my own Debian repository on an intranet that supplements the Ubuntu and Mint repositories and from which I can distribute company applications and backports where the standard package is not sufficiently up-to-date. I would like to be able to do the same with Lazarus/FPC packages. 2. Packages should be similar to deb/rpm packages comprising a standard archive with the files given in their installation layout, plus a list of dependent packages and version information. Unlike deb/rpm packages, the installation layout should be relative rather than absolute as the target directory should be under the user's account e.g. (/home/tony/.lazarus/packages for Linux). A different location may be preferred for examples - which could be in separate packages. 3. Locally installed packages (i.e. under the user account) should override and replace packages with the same name installed at the system level. 4. All packages in the repository should be signed (e.g. using a GPG user key). Only packages signed using a known key should be allowed to install. 5. Access to the repository should use http/https allowing the client to GET an individual package or download a list of packages and direct dependencies. 6. The package manager client should have both command line and GUI (part of Lazarus IDE) versions. 7. The client should be configurable with an ordered list of known repositories. 8. The client should allow available packages to be browsed/searched. 9. The client should manage a list of known (and trusted) signing (public) keys and validate the signature on any downloaded package. 10. Selecting a package to be installed should automatically select all required dependencies, installing any that are not currently installed. 11. When a runtime package is installed, the package is registered with the IDE and added to the list of known packages. 12. When a design time package is installed, the package manager should offer to rebuild the IDE. 13. When a package is removed, the package manager should offer to remove all otherwise unused dependencies. 14. The package manager should support a check for updates and package upgrade. 15. The IDE should be configurable to support an automatic check for updated packages each time it starts. offering to upgrade any out-of-date packages. 16. Implementing the repository as a RESTful service could be interesting, allowing packages to be added and removed using (authenticated) PUT and DELETE methods in true cloud storage fashion. Tony Whyman MWA -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015, Juha Manninen wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org wrote: Why not ? fppkg just needs a zip file, and expects a fpmake.pp. The fpmake.pp is easily translatable to lazarus package and vice versa. Now I have a gap in my knowledge. I thought that fpmake is a replacement for make, not for Lazarus packages. I want to understand this topic better. It is both. Sources are divided in packages. A package is defined as a set of units that are built together. fpmake does 2 things: - It enumerates the units that make up the package. - It has some metadata: author, version, description. - It provides exact build instructions for the units. - As part of the build instructions, dependencies between packages but also between units can (and must) be specified. As you can see, this is the equivalent of a lazarus package, and even a little better since lazarus (currently) does not manage dependencies between units. fpmake can also - Compile the units/programs - Create a manifest file (this is the equivalent of a package file, it's also XML) - Create a source zip - Onstall the units where the compiler can find them (this would not be needed for lazarus packages) - Create the documentation. - I have an extension (uncommitted) where it also can compile and run a testsuite. This is currently the domain of the lazarus IDE or lazbuild. So, one possible working scheme that was originally though of: - use fpmake/fppkg as package format - Inside lazarus, let fpmake generate a lazarus package (should be a no-brainer) - Lazarus loads/compiles the generated package Another possible working scheme is: - use fpmake/fppkg as package format - Lazarus packager detects fpmake and calls it to compile everything as well as generate a lazarus package. - Lazarus loads the generated package A third (but very improbable, I suspect ;) ) possibility is that lazarus switches building of packages to fppkg. It was designed to make this possible. Probably there are some variations possible. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
On 10/08/2015 18:35, Aradeonas wrote: So there isnt any option or implement in debugger that it log what lines it go and it compile? You are looking for complied or executed lines? Compiled lines: just look for the blue dots, while the debugger runs Executed lines: No current plan. For executed lines this needs a specially optimized debugger. If you do that with gdb in the IDE, your app would run really slow. Even in valgrind, an app can slow down by a factor of 30 to 50. (values estimated from memory). The IDE+gdb based debugger is not fit for that. If someone wants to do that based on the new fpdebug, that may be possible. But that needs a volunteer. I dont know much about compilers but when it know what lines it run and debug so it can write it some where. You can single step the app in the IDE (of course you need to keep pressing F7), the IDE will record the last 20 lines in the Debug-history window. But this kind of single stepping is very very slow. valgrind also uses single stepping. but because it is not doing all the tasks other debuggers would do, it ends up with a slowdown that makes it still possible (though sometimes painful) to run an app. Without single stepping, your app would need to log the info from within. But the complier does not do that. There is fpprofiler. It does not do what you want, but it can probably be modified to do it. It takes your source before compilation, and inserts extra statements (preprocessing). So all you need is to insert (automatically) one log-statement on each line. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
On 10/08/2015 19:10, Aradeonas wrote: Thank you. But its interesting also how we can find out what is debugger doing. Depends on what you want to know. You can see the interaction between the IDE and GDB in Menu: View Debug Window Debug output. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
On 2015-08-10 18:35, Aradeonas wrote: I dont know much about compilers but when it know what lines it run and debug so it can write it some where. You could accomplish what you want (I think) with a minor tweak to fpprofiler [https://github.com/graemeg/fpprofiler]. fpprofiler is a poor mans profiler written in Object Pascal. It inserts profiling lines in your source code. You then compiler and run it, which generates profile output which you could process later. It shouldn't be hard to tweak the profile output to instead output the execution order. Because it inserts profiling lines in your code, it adjusts the line numbers, but for profiling [and I think want you want], that shouldn't matter much. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
So there isnt any option or implement in debugger that it log what lines it go and it compile? I dont know much about compilers but when it know what lines it run and debug so it can write it some where. Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
Thank you. But its interesting also how we can find out what is debugger doing. Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - A fast, anti-spam email service. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
On 10/08/2015 15:34, Aradeonas wrote: Is there any way to find out what lines of a project run in all units like a log? For example : unit1 line 345 unit1 line 346 unit1 line 347 As in code coverage? The best I can think of is valgrind (linux only), with kcachegrind. It doesn't give you a log, but you can view all code, and it tells you which lines were run, which function was called from which others, ... The cost is, that your app will run much,much slower during the test. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
I want to know executed lines,I dont care about debugging in the mean time but I want to know what lines will executed,debugger know that so there should be a way to get this from it. From the time I start programming years ago I like to know the lines will executed,its sometimes useful and also interesting. Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org wrote: - As part of the build instructions, dependencies between packages but also between units can (and must) be specified. Why is that? Unit dependencies are already specified in uses sections of the units themselves. I will study the fpmake / fppkg stuff more soon ... Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On 2015-08-10 16:15, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: 3. Locally installed packages (i.e. under the user account) should override and replace packages with the same name installed at the system level. Should be doable. Already possible/supported. I've been doing something similar for years. I have a unit path specified in my ~/.fpc.cfg. If I copy say my custom version of the fpcunit.pp in there, whenever I compile the Lazarus GUI Test Runner (or console runner), FPC uses my version, and not the one included in FCL. eg: Add the following at the beginning of your ~/.fpc.cfg file. # apply custom fixes -Fu/data/devel/myfixes/ I learned this tick from my years with Delphi 7 and Kylix 3. 4. All packages in the repository should be signed (e.g. using a GPG user key). Only packages signed using a known key should be allowed to install. I don't see the point in that. +1 Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On 10/08/15 16:15, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: 4. All packages in the repository should be signed (e.g. using a GPG user key). Only packages signed using a known key should be allowed to install. I don't see the point in that. An online repository is potentially vulnerable to: - DoS Attacks - Man in the middle attacks - Unauthorised modification of repository data DoS is probably out of scope and man in the middle could be countered by demanding https only. However, I don't think I would like to claim that any website is invulnerable to unauthorised modification. Hence why I propose that a digital signature is available for each file in the repository. The basic idea is that the signing key is only available to an authorised user (probably 3DES encrypted) and thus even if an attacker succeeds in uploading a malicious file, the attack is not unsuccessful unless the attacker can persuade the site administrator to sign the file. This extra level of security should be sufficient to counter such an attack. Tony -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015, Juha Manninen wrote: On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org wrote: - As part of the build instructions, dependencies between packages but also between units can (and must) be specified. Why is that? Unit dependencies are already specified in uses sections of the units themselves. Because then you can optimize the compilation process. If units are specified in the wrong order, they can be processed twice. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Stats
On So, 2015-08-09 at 20:08 +0100, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2015-08-09 16:50, mic...@gmail.com wrote: the sourceforge stats are pretty impressive I would be interested to know what the unknown list of Top OSes contain. Which OSes would register such a large group? Count FreeBSD in. I'm using it and have never installed the ports, always downloads via the web sites of fpc and lazarus. The Android download count, also in Top OSes, is also surprising. What, do people download FPC from their mobile phones? Maybe some Raspberry Pi or the like, those can be running Android. -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On 2015-08-10 20:22, Juha Manninen wrote: Unit dependencies are already specified in uses sections of the units themselves. In the case of fpGUI I couldn't create a single fpgui_toolkit.lpk package that fully supports fpGUI, because depending on the platform, it has different unit paths, and in some of those paths there are units with the same name (which acts as a bridge between the backend and front-end). A similar thing for include files used in the implementation section of some units. So due to the limitations of Lazarus Packages, I had to create two sets of fpgui_toolkit.lpk packages - one in the x11 directory, and one in the gdi directory. A real pain in my side. If I start supporting other backends, then the package count would increase even more. With fpmake, it has sufficient flexibility so I only need a single fpmake.pp no matter the platform or graphics backend. Incidently, due to the above mentioned limitations (and a few other gripes), I'm moving more and more away from Lazarus Packages and rather to a Macro based setup. Unfortunately none of the IDE's I use currently support fpmake, so I haven't used it much. But for console based compiling, it works very well. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
On 2015-08-10 21:25, Martin Frb wrote: Again it can be added to the new fpdebug. Does fpdebug still have a (human) interactive interface, like duby used to have? Or does it only do app-to-app communications now? Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] What lines of a project run
On 10/08/2015 19:46, Aradeonas wrote: I want to know executed lines,I dont care about debugging in the mean time but I want to know what lines will executed,debugger know that so there should be a way to get this from it. Actually the debugger does not always know what lines were executed. (But feel free to read the gdb docs) It only: - has a list of *all* liens that are in the exe, and that may or may not be executed. - it knows when a line with a breakpoint is hit - it knows when and which lines are single stepped. If you use run (instead of step) between breakpoints, then which of the lines in between were executed is not known. Now of course you can single step the entire app (or set breakpoints on al lines). Then you will get this list. But as I said, with the current gdb based debugger, that will be incredible slow. (valgrind does the single stepping, but it does not have the overhead of interprocess communication between IDE and gdb) Well newer gdb actually have a record mode, but not on all platforms. And I do not know if they allow to query the executed lines. The data is used for reverse execution. Anyway that is not available inside the IDE. You can probably get a standalone gdb to do the singlestepping. Not sure but I guess it will still be slower than valgrind. Again it can be added to the new fpdebug. But someone needs to do that. In fact it would be nice. Coverage is an important factor of testcases for example. From the time I start programming years ago I like to know the lines will executed,its sometimes useful and also interesting. Well you can always start the app in the debugger, and single step (set a breakpoint at the start, press F9 to run, then F7 and continue with f7, F7, F7, ) It will take forever, but you see every line that is executed . Just make sure (in the options) that the project, and all packages of interest have debug info enabled. However single stepping does not create a logfile of all lines. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Aradeonas aradeo...@operamail.com wrote: The most important part is it make easy to use packages and sharing them so increase the power of community and get more attention on each other work and attract new users to this brilliant space ;) Yes but let's leave the spirit elevation speeches and do some code. :) Well, I can promise to do code myself only after a month or so. I have other activities and the weather is good etc. I will hopefully get a new computer within a month, too. Now using a mini-laptop. Yet I promise to read and write mails. I'm researching about all same services ,next make plan and structure after reading exist codes and then invite every people that want work on some part of this if they want. I can see you are new to open source. Inviting every people to work does not work. You must create some working code first yourself and then others _may_ join but it is not sure even then. If you study the existing package manager systems too much, you will be very confused. The tools may have advanced server SW, Python, JS, web user interfaces etc. KISS. For now I'm interested in community opinions so keep them in mind while the researching and planning. Don't count on community opinions too much either. Everybody has lots of opinions but very few people are willing to implement them. It is so easy to suggest something advanced as long as somebody else implements it. The person who actually implements things has more voting power. That's how it must be. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
Yes but let's leave the spirit elevation speeches and do some code. Im working on it before making topic but as many others here Im also busy with some projects but the difference is I like it and Im working on it no matter what ;) Well, I can promise to do code myself only after a month or so. I have other activities and the weather is good etc. You want to work on this?if yes what parts do you like so I save it for you.I have problem with IDE ingerations becuase I dont know much about it. I can see you are new to open source. Yes but what Im saying is just a testing and I know from past I should make it my self. invite every people that want work on some part of this if they want I said if they want and probably no one want but it worth to know ;) Don't count on community opinions too much either. Everybody has lots of opinions but very few people are willing to implement them. It is so easy to suggest something advanced as long as somebody else implements it. The person who actually implements things has more voting power. That's how it must be. As I said I know from past I should make it my self but I always like hearing others opinion, and if any one want to help so make a tam on that. Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:52 AM, Aradeonas aradeo...@operamail.com wrote: Im agree with Luiz,Its better to have them in a server as a pack, No, Luiz suggested the opposite, to download from SCM directly without any packs. I don't know why people are obsessed with SCM tools for a feature that does not need them and certainly should not depend on them. because as you (Juha) said we dont want do any force dependency on anything like Git or Github so we can cache the packages in a server as a zip [...] Dependency on Github web site / service is OK. Dependency on Git tool for all Lazarus users in a no-go. In fact I like the FreeBSD ports system. Does it depend on SCM tools or does it download some ready made Zip packages from GitHub and other sites? Both ways have a problem : It is easy to get only the latest version of a package. Projects can depend on old versions, too. Anyway we should add support for different download sites for the Lazarus packages, in the spirit of FreeBSD ports. Maybe like this : Phase 1 : Support zipped meta-packages but allow to download them from any URL (HTTP or FTP). The difference to Kostas' minimal design is that the Lazarus .lpk files are not needed separately. The client can extract them and check dependencies. Having dependency info in other places would be duplicate info. A list of available packages must be in one file. Doing a FTP directory listing eats resources. Note: no server side SW is needed. Phase 2 : Support also downloading from sites hosting code (SF, GitHub etc.) when they provide direct download. Using the SCM tools directly cannot be supported because we cannot impose such a dependency for the cross-platform Lazarus. Still no server side SW is needed. Phase 3 : Support user rating and comments for packages. Support using the SCM tools from server. When a download URL refers to a SCM repo, the server SW loads the sources and zips a meta-package. Clients can use that package directly. Server side SW is needed obviously. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
I read it wrongly,No I dont like getting directly because of many reasons like their services limit and the soul of no force dependency on others of FPC and Lazarus. I think we are the same page. Its good to have a server that get around packages together from supported sources and so on. There is one tiny problem that keep packages uptodate, we can sync as package maintainer update it in a client tools or we can sync it in a cycle . not decided yet. Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - Does exactly what it says on the tin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On 2015-08-09 23:30, luiz americo pereira camara wrote: I would download from the SCM ( git/svn) directly, like bower does. The data necessary to register the package would be name, description, dependencies, the SCM type, and the repository URL. I would suggest the same idea. Take a look at how the FreeBSD ports system works. Much can be learned from that. For those that don't know FreeBSD ports system, here is a short explanation: * The ports information lives in a directory hierarchy. The first level defines the group in which each packages belongs: eg: devel, editors, games, audio etc. Then inside those you have a directory for each package. * Each package directory contains a couple of files and one files directory: - distinfo: lists the source archive name, its size and SHA256 checksum value - Makefile: describes the version number of the package, category the package belongs too, where the port can be downloaded from (straight from SF.net, Github etc), package maintainer's email address, dependencies and compiler options (user configurable at build time). - pkg-descr: full multi-line description of the package - pkg-plist: full list of installed files (including path information) - files/ any small patches that get applied to the unpacked source archive before it gets compiled. The whole ports directory hierarchy lives in a code repository. The end-user (developer in this case) can update their local copy from time to time. Package source code (release archives) get downloaded directly from each projects original location on SF.net, Github, etc. Unpacking the source archive for compilation happens in a temp directory inside each package directory in the ports tree. Packages can also be marked as Broken or Suspended for various reasons (eg: original source archive is not available for download any more) For Lazarus, the ports repository is the only bandwidth the Lazarus server will use. A gui front-end can be written to update and search the local ports tree. A star rating system (optional) would probably need to be implemented at the GUI front-end level, and could submit a rating via some web service. Login could be made optional, but a simple registration will most likely reduce spam and allow to keep track of who made ratings against what packages. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
Thank you for the explanation Graeme. I think its better to archive each version in Lazarus host or a central is better way but get them when updated from the source so prevent problems like availability , think as as a sync central, because as I saw always be here and stable is a major points of Lazarus and one of the reason I like it so much,it always there for you ;) . About users probably we can use forum users info but let see what happen. The most important part is it make easy to use packages and sharing them so increase the power of community and get more attention on each other work and attract new users to this brilliant space ;) I'm researching about all same services ,next make plan and structure after reading exist codes and then invite every people that want work on some part of this if they want. For now I'm interested in community opinions so keep them in mind while the researching and planning. Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Aradeonas aradeo...@operamail.com wrote: There is one tiny problem that keep packages uptodate, we can sync as package maintainer update it in a client tools or we can sync it in a cycle . not decided yet. Supporting package update from the client tools would require user authentication and server side SW etc. At least initially it must be done by admins who have direct access to the server. It means that authors can host their packages somewhere else and then provide patches for the package list in our server, listing the URL for their server. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
Em 10/08/2015 06:30, Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com escreveu: On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:52 AM, Aradeonas aradeo...@operamail.com wrote: Im agree with Luiz,Its better to have them in a server as a pack, In fact I like the FreeBSD ports system. Does it depend on SCM tools or does it download some ready made Zip packages from GitHub and other sites? Both ways have a problem : It is easy to get only the latest version of a package. The SCM allows to retrieve older versions like tags or even specific revisions. In fact, allows to have multiplex versions without the burden of havê to upload every time a new version is released. About using SCM to something that does not need: really it does not need but would make the feature more flexible and easier to maintain (think of the server maintanance and how a shutdown would affect the Lazarus users). Luiz Anyway we should add support for different download sites for the Lazarus packages, in the spirit of FreeBSD ports. Maybe like this : Phase 1 : Support zipped meta-packages but allow to download them from any URL (HTTP or FTP). The difference to Kostas' minimal design is that the Lazarus .lpk files are not needed separately. The client can extract them and check dependencies. Having dependency info in other places would be duplicate info. A list of available packages must be in one file. Doing a FTP directory listing eats resources. Note: no server side SW is needed. Phase 2 : Support also downloading from sites hosting code (SF, GitHub etc.) when they provide direct download. Using the SCM tools directly cannot be supported because we cannot impose such a dependency for the cross-platform Lazarus. Still no server side SW is needed. Phase 3 : Support user rating and comments for packages. Support using the SCM tools from server. When a download URL refers to a SCM repo, the server SW loads the sources and zips a meta-package. Clients can use that package directly. Server side SW is needed obviously. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
If someone needs an explanation of how this is done, I can provide whatever is needed. Ok,I really want to hear from you about this. The only thing I ask is that if a web-interface is made, and it needs a database, it depends only on postgres or firebird. No mysql. Preferably the backend of the web interface is made with FPC, but any other technology is fine (PHP being at the bottom of the list because I consider it a security leak). Firebird can be good choice although it been years I didnt work with it but No problem,happy to work with it again. About backend I will insist on a FPC backend ,when our language work well why use another? ;) Regards, Ara -- http://www.fastmail.com - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015, Juha Manninen wrote: It may be rather easy using HTTP or FTP download like fppkg is doing. Some of its code can be used. The package list must be one file (just like fppkg uses) to minimize server load. The package format cannot be shared with fppkg though. Why not ? fppkg just needs a zip file, and expects a fpmake.pp. The fpmake.pp is easily translatable to lazarus package and vice versa. If additional functionalities are needed, we can add whatever is necessary. I don't think the server load will be a problem. The packages contain only textual source files and are compressed. They will be small enough. Allowing users to comment and rate the packages may be the most difficult part but it is not needed initially. It will require authentication and dealing with malicious attacks and whatever. Read-only is easy. Aradeonas, if you start to implement this, you should reuse the fppkg code as much as possible. The design looks good. I hope so :) The fpmake related stuff and the package format cannot be reused. See above, why not ? Also the client must be a Lazarus IDE package with a nice GUI instead of a cmd line program. fpmake was designed to have a GUI from day 1. It was thought through, you know :) All that fpmake does is register some units and then start the builder/installer. A descendent of the builder/installer can be created to start a GUI. If someone needs an explanation of how this is done, I can provide whatever is needed. As for repositories: I have no problem letting the initial/master repositories be hosted on the FPC server. Any package can be uploaded, dependencies are not an issue. The only thing I ask is that if a web-interface is made, and it needs a database, it depends only on postgres or firebird. No mysql. Preferably the backend of the web interface is made with FPC, but any other technology is fine (PHP being at the bottom of the list because I consider it a security leak). Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Aradeonas aradeo...@operamail.com wrote: [Cross posted on forum so if you want answer there :http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,29284.0.html http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,29007.0.html] Hi, I saw Embarcadero's Getit http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/XE8/en/GetIt that introduced in Delphi XE8 and I think it can help Lazarus and it's community very well. As you know these days more IDE's make this systems and its good,collecting all packages and make it easy to use like a store. Is there any work on this subject until now or any one like to work on this subject? If yes I want to help. Regards, Ara Very nice idea! I use something like this in other languages and it is very useful (NPM, Gradle, Maven, APT, Yum etc). The NPM project uses a nice approach: keep your project in your repository (Github, Bitbucket etc) that we will publish it as-is, see an example: https://www.npmjs.com/package/express (although you found Express in NPM, this package is hosted in Github https://github.com/strongloop/express). So you can install a new package localy in your project just performing npm install some-packe (even a new project, npm install new-project, and you can start it too, npm start), or global, performing npm install some-package -g, and to init a new packages.json, just perform npm init. In Lazarus, the local installation could be in the project's folder, and the global installations could be done in the lazarus/components folder, eg: lpm install -g synapse, or lpm install some-project-or-package-hosted-in-github --save (--save saves all sources of you package). =) Some times ago I saw a online package in CodeTyphon project too, but I don't remember how it does that, but you can take a look on it. =) -- Silvio Clécio -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Michael Van Canneyt mich...@freepascal.org wrote: Why not ? fppkg just needs a zip file, and expects a fpmake.pp. The fpmake.pp is easily translatable to lazarus package and vice versa. Now I have a gap in my knowledge. I thought that fpmake is a replacement for make, not for Lazarus packages. I want to understand this topic better. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On 2015-08-10 14:42, Juha Manninen wrote: I want to understand this topic better. fppkg and fpmake works together. fpmake can generate a zip archive and a manifest file for use with fppkg server. Take a look at fpGUI's fpmake.pas unit. $ cd fpgui/src/ $ fpc fpmake.pas $ fpmake --help Usage: ./fpmake command [options] Where command is one of the following: compile Compile all units in the package(s). buildBuild all units in the package(s). install Install all units in the package(s). cleanClean (remove) all units in the package(s). archive Create archive (zip) with all units in the package(s). manifest Create a manifest suitable for import in repository. ...snip... $ ./fpmake archive --prefix=fpgui/ (you now have a fpgui-1.5.zip archive created $ ./fpmake manifest (you now have a manifest.xml file created - ready to submit to fppkg) The only problem I have seen thus far is fpmake is hard-coded to look for fpmake.pp, and my file is name fpmake.pas - I get this error because of it. Simply rename it to .pp and the above works fine. $ ./fpmake archive --prefix=fpgui/ The installer encountered the following error: File fpmake.pp does not exist. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] An online package manager
On 2015-08-10 10:17, Juha Manninen wrote: Phase 3 : Support user rating and comments for packages. Phase 4: Build a online store where ISV's can sell their packages, and accept Google Wallet, PayPal or BitCoin payments. ;-) Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
