Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Marc Santhoff]

On Do, 2016-01-07 at 18:14 -0500, Anthony Walter wrote:
> > Napoleon conquered the world some 200 years ago. That is long enough as
> nobody seems to have strong negative association with his actions
> 
> Follow this link if you want to see why WW2, and by extension the people
> who created it and the symbols they used, is such a big deal:
> 
> http://www.fallen.io/ww2/
> 
> In short, WW2 resulted in more deaths than any event in human history
> including the Black Death, the Napoleonic wars, the great Flu Pandemic of
> 1918, and Pol Pot anti intellectualism cleansing or chairman Mao's program
> of cultural cleansing.

You at least forget about Thirty Years' War.

>  I have five uncles, on both my mother's and father's
> side, who fought and died in WW2. When I've visited their graves in France
> and Hawaii everyone I met seemed to a good understanding of the war's cost
> in human life on both sides, and also the new connotations symbols like the
> Swastika had taken, for better or worse.

That very sad. But to boil down all this on one Symbol is much to
simple. And ignoring all other uses of a symbol is intolerant.

> Even if you like the shape of the Nazi style Swastika, and have
> appreciation of its history in Finland, most everyone in the developed
> Western world now recognizes it as a symbol of Nazism, and by extension a
> symbol of prejudicial racism and hate.

All of that has nothing to do with an internationally used programming
project.

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[Lazarus] Reducing output when building bigide?

[Bo Berglund]

Whenever I build Lazarus 1.6RC1 bigide, using the terminal command
make bigide, there is a lot of seemingly unneeded screen output in the
form of hints regarding "Sender" not being used and such.
Is there any way to block this from being printed to screen? A
parameter for make or something similar.
Especially when I use a script to install fpc and lazarus it seems
like overkill to print all of that info.

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Anthony Walter  wrote:
> I have five uncles, on both my mother's and father's
> side, who fought and died in WW2. When I've visited their graves in France
> and Hawaii everyone I met seemed to a good understanding of the war's cost
> in human life on both sides, and also the new connotations symbols like the
> Swastika had taken, for better or worse.

My relatives, including my would-be-uncle was killed by Russians, yet
I don't feel like I should advertise it in a programming mailing list.
Of course people in France and Hawaii know the symbol of the evil
Nazis because it has been repeated again and again in books,
TV-documentaries and Hollywood movies. It has been kind of
brain-washing. Even if the facts are correct, many other facts are
left out.
Think for example the victims of Stalin's genocide in eastern Europe.
They were called traitors and "enemies of Soviet Union" in the
propaganda. Their relatives had to live in shame. Nobody felt sympathy
for them. No Hollywood movies were made of their fate. Yet they were
good people just like your uncles.
To get more perspective, please read also other parts of the history,
not only the Nazi part.

I have seen similar attitude from English and US people before. Strong
feeling of being right, at the same time ignorance of many facts. I
can confess it irritates me.


> Even if you like the shape of the Nazi style Swastika, and have appreciation
> of its history in Finland, most everyone in the developed Western world now
> recognizes it as a symbol of Nazism, and by extension a symbol of
> prejudicial racism and hate.

Yes, because it has been repeated again and again. It must change! It
has been 3 - 4 generations already. It is time to see things in
historical perspective and stop punishing a graphical symbol.


@Mattias:
> The historic relativism in some mails are shocking and shows horrific lack of 
> historic knowledge.
> There was nothing good about the Nazis and it was their ideology and
> symbolism that got them to power and still attracts people to their twisted 
> beliefs.

Nobody here was pro-Nazi.
Your view of history is also strongly biased. You were taught that
your country-men did wrong. You learned your lesson, good.
However there are other horrible things done in the world but the
guilty parties did not got punished and didn't even feel guilty. It
means the world is very unjust. Nazis got what they deserved but most
other bad guys didn't.

Hence I stick with my plan and will put up a graph routine library
after consulting from Seppo.
It can contain any important symbol from human history without any
bias. It certainly must contain the Hammer-and-Sickle symbol, too,
although it has been for many eastern European people like the
swastika was for Jewish people. Any old religious symbol can be added
equally well.

Censoring graphs does not belong to the domain of an international
programming project!
We can show good example here by being completely neutral politically.
Besides it may be important for the future. When the project is pulled
into politics, it can escalate rapidly.

Political correctness is not desired if it means that a subset of bad
things can be criticised and everybody must agree with it, but other
bad things must be ignored.
No, this project must be politically NEUTRAL instead.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Gustavo Enrique Jimenez]

Now this is strange: a "FREE SOFTWARE" project discussing whether they
should or should not discuss political/historical/cultural views.

2016-01-08 13:43 GMT-03:00 Shaun O'Connor :
> I concur completely,  Just because a particular  graphic is included in the
> distribution densest oblige one to make use of it.
>
> If we all got nit picky about the meaning of various symbols we would never
> get anywhere, , I say let the matter rest and concentrate on continuing the
> good work of a fine open source project.
>
>
> On 08/01/2016 15:34, Donald Ziesig wrote:
>>
>> My two cents.
>>
>> This has gotten completely out of hand.  When an item has multiple
>> meanings (e.g., artistic, religious or offensive political history) we
>> should give it the benefit of the doubt and LEAVE IT IN.
>>
>> This is Lazarus (an international programming organization), not a
>> totalitarian regime.  As was exemplified before, should we paint a Hindu who
>> is printing a religious symbol with the same brush as a Neo-Nazi?  I say NO.
>> Most people who are technically competent enough to install and use Lazarus
>> have the ability to draw anything they want anyway.
>>
>> PLEASE, LET'S TERMINATE THIS THREAD, NOW!
>>
>> Don Ziesig
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[wkitty42]

On 01/08/2016 10:44 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:05:56 -0500
wkitt...@windstream.net wrote:


[...]

There is a difference between forbidding a flag and promoting it.


having built-in procedures to paint flags and symbols is not promoting those
symbols and flags...


I'm glad that you agree that removing a helper function is not
"forbidding".


hahaha... yes, removing it is not "forbidding" it... but having (unknowingly) 
had it, knowing that it has been removed leaves an empty hole :?



I'm not a native English speaker so maybe "promoting" is the wrong
word. Maybe a better word is support, boost, encourage or help on.


i was thinking of "promoting" as in commercials where a product is promoted...


Although after this long mail thread the function is pretty much promoted.


true dat...

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Giuliano Colla]

Il 08/01/2016 18:47, Juha Manninen ha scritto:

No, this project must be politically NEUTRAL instead.


I perfectly agree with this statement of yours, but this is not the case.

I would never object to a collection of religious and political symbols, 
where swastika could have its place together with hammer-and sickle, 
crosses of different style, muslim crescent, star of David, etc.


But if you take a small collection where the only one politically 
relevant is the swastika, then you have a collection which is 
politically BIASED, not politically NEUTRAL.


The problem doesn't arise from the swastika being included, it arises 
from all the rest which isn't, and which makes the swastika stand out.


Most likely in an unintended way, but this is what appears to a casual 
observer, and which gave rise to this thread.


Just my 2 cents.

Giuliano


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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 08.01.2016 11:35, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

The unit provides example functions for some common symbols, especially
drawing flags (e.g. PaintBarbadosTrident, PaintCanadianMaple).
It does not support a big amount of flags and symbols. It only supports
a few selected flags and one of them was the flag of the Nazis.
In that sense it was political and not the intention of Lazarus.


In this case please remove PaintCanadianMaple and PaintPentagon as well 
because of the genocide on native Americans by the U.S. and Canadian 
government. PaintFivePointStar has to be removed as well because (among 
others) it is used in the U.S. flag and in the former Soviet Union flag.


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Ondrej Pokorny wrote:

On 08.01.2016 11:35, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

The unit provides example functions for some common symbols, especially
drawing flags (e.g. PaintBarbadosTrident, PaintCanadianMaple).
It does not support a big amount of flags and symbols. It only supports
a few selected flags and one of them was the flag of the Nazis.
In that sense it was political and not the intention of Lazarus.


In this case please remove PaintCanadianMaple and PaintPentagon as well 
because of the genocide on native Americans by the U.S. and Canadian 
government. PaintFivePointStar has to be removed as well because (among 
others) it is used in the U.S. flag and in the former Soviet Union flag.


And there's a long-running campaign against Trident in the UK ;-)

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:19:09 +0100
Zeljko  wrote:

>[...]
> Shall we ask hollywood producers to stop making 
> movies/documentaries which shows german nazi flag ? Shall we ask video 
> games makers to stop produce games which shows nazi symbols (eg. 
> wolfenstein) ? C'mon ppl what drugs do you use ?
> Again, this is completely wrong. We are not political or religion 
> organization, we are talking about paint procedure which paints symbol.

There is a difference between forbidding a flag and promoting it.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Reducing output when building bigide?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:51:39 +0100
Bo Berglund  wrote:

> Whenever I build Lazarus 1.6RC1 bigide, using the terminal command
> make bigide, there is a lot of seemingly unneeded screen output in the
> form of hints regarding "Sender" not being used and such.
> Is there any way to block this from being printed to screen? A
> parameter for make or something similar.
> Especially when I use a script to install fpc and lazarus it seems
> like overkill to print all of that info.

The hints are needed for the Lazarus developers.
If you only want to compile and install Lazarus you can safely
ignore this particular hint using -vm5024 or hide all hints using -vh-.

make all OPT=-vh-

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Tony Whyman]

Juha,

Well said. This clearly came from the heart. It is not important as to 
whether or not I agree with what you have said. What is important is 
that you have and have exercised the right of free speech and that is 
what this is all about. Free speech may not include the "right to shout 
fire in a crowded theatre", but it does and should include the right to 
offend.


Totalitarian regimes whether they be Fascist or Communist fear free 
speech more than anything else and it is our strongest weapon against 
them. It should never be compromised.


If anyone has any doubts about whether or not the whole precept of this 
thread is wrong then they need only to take a look at  "The Stoning" 
sketch from Monty Python's Life of Brian. Here we have a man being 
stoned to death for simply saying that "that Halibut was fit for 
Jehovah". The context was irrelevant. The mere fact that he said 
"Jehovah" was enough to condemn him. There then follows sketch of total 
farce whether anyone who makes the mistake of referring to the fact that 
he said "Jehovah" is themselves stoned.


That sketch is almost a modern parable because it is telling us that 
it's not the word or symbol that is important. It is the context in 
which it is used.


If a Hindu uses a PaintSwastika procedure to print out a religious tract 
then what is the problem? On the other hand if some silly kid uses it to 
print out a offensive poster, etc. etc. then they only make themselves 
look stupid and ignorant and, in the worst case, there are laws to 
handle this. Either way, blaming Lazarus for the allowing the second 
case is denying the right of the first to pursue their lawful business 
and is just basically wrong.


And worse: you are on the slippery slope to proposing that English is 
replaced by a language called Newspeak where it is impossible to utter 
or think an heretical thought.


Let's end this double plus ungood quackspeak.

Good day

Tony Whyman

On 07/01/16 19:29, Juha Manninen wrote:

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Terry A. Haimann  wrote:

As someone of Jewish heritage I say get rid of it.

Mattias actually removed the function, obeying like a good German boy
when somebody with "Jewish heritage" tells him. Uhhh, I can't believe
he did so!

I planned to write "let's stop this nonsense before this project is
pulled into politics", but now it is too late.
Removing an ancient graph which is part of human heritage only for
political reasons has a strong symbolic meaning.
This project had no political or religious connections before this
thread, at least that I knew of.
The symbols drawn by the lib were not presented in any political
context. Nobody saw a problem during the years.
Anthony, I am surprised by your attitude and lack of perspective. Your
thread practically turned this project into politics. Damn!

Swastika is used in far East in Hinduism, Jainism, Buddism and others.
It is not only history, it is used currently today.
Its meanings are prosperity, security, glory, "good luck", "God's energy" etc.
Anybody from India reading this? This mail thread must appear rather
weird. Many Indian people don't know what Judaism or Nazism are
exactly, or at least don't have strong emotions about them.

More perspective: I would welcome a PaintHammerAndSickle procedure to
the lib from Dmitry, although it carries negative association in my
country and in other ex-Soviet neighbours, and for a reason.
Still, it is just a graph. The purpose of this project is not to judge
any graph symbol. They happen to exist for whatever reason.

Historical fact is that Stalin's governance killed MORE people than
Hitler's. He was MORE evil by any measurement.
He just killed a minority after another without any plan by pure evilness.
If you read what happened in countries occupied by Soviet Union, it
matches the Holocaust. However those people could not complain to
anybody, the propaganda made them look guilty instead.
Why was Stalin not convicted as a war criminal and hung? Well, because
he happened to win the war!
The history is always written by winners. I think it was politically
incorrect to write critically about him now.
However it is politically correct to criticise Nazis. When somebody
with "Jewish heritage" tells to remove an ancient symbol only because
Nazis happened to use it some 75 years ago, everybody must obey and
nod their heads in acceptance.
Uhhh, this sucks badly!

What about USA? They have attacked countries around the world during
decades, sometimes secretly, sometimes openly, killing people only
because they didn't happen to like the government. That is evil, too.
Should we ban all symbols associated with USA?

No, censoring graph symbols would be a never-ending swamp. This is an
international project but the world is unjust.
Always there is some group who is treated bad by some other group and
want to ban their symbols.
This project must be outside of politics! If there is a graph library,
it must be allowed to draw 

Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Zeljko]

On 01/08/2016 10:48 AM, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:

Juha Manninen wrote:

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Terry A. Haimann 
wrote:

As someone of Jewish heritage I say get rid of it.


Mattias actually removed the function, obeying like a good German boy
when somebody with "Jewish heritage" tells him. Uhhh, I can't believe
he did so!


I read what he said as meaning that he had removed it before Terry
objected. English tenses can be vague, but let's give them the benefit
of the doubt just this once.

As somebody who (I believe) lost family, rather than just claiming a
certain heritage, could we please drop this.


I completely disagree with removing paintswastika procedure.
I've lost big part of my family during ww2, they were killed by italian 
faschists and german nazis, also some of them were killed by comunists 
after WW2, also some of them are missing and nobody knows where their 
bones are.
All I can say that I fully agree with Juha. IMO, we went in completely 
wrong direction with this theme.
Shall we remove PaintStar() because comunism kill many ppl around world 
(and some members of my family too), PaintCross() because christians 
killed many natives in south america, forbid painting of French flag 
because of Napoleon ? Shall we ask hollywood producers to stop making 
movies/documentaries which shows german nazi flag ? Shall we ask video 
games makers to stop produce games which shows nazi symbols (eg. 
wolfenstein) ? C'mon ppl what drugs do you use ?
Again, this is completely wrong. We are not political or religion 
organization, we are talking about paint procedure which paints symbol.


zeljko


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Re: [Lazarus] Reducing output when building bigide?

[Bo Berglund]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:06:48 +, Mark Morgan Lloyd
 wrote:

>Bo Berglund wrote:
>> Whenever I build Lazarus 1.6RC1 bigide, using the terminal command
>> make bigide, there is a lot of seemingly unneeded screen output in the
>> form of hints regarding "Sender" not being used and such.
...
>
>I'd suggest that it would be very bad practice to suppress warning 
>messages from trunk or an RC build. 
...
>
>One thing which would be useful at the Lazarus level would be 
>suppression of blank lines emitted by the linker. The FPC team insists 
>that this is not their problem, even when the linker has been invoked 
>automatically by the compiler.
>
OK, thanks.
It is really just an annoyance seeing these repeated warnings about
unused variables flutter through on the screen while waiting for the
make to finish. Since it is a make command with repeated executions
there is really nothing one can do about it and due to the speed and
limited size of the terminal buffer you are unlikely to ever be able
to check them afterwards in any case...

And those blank lines you mention, which just create black screens now
and then seem totally superfluous.
Anyway, no functional problem, just an annoyance.
Wanted to check if there was a switch like "quiet" or similar to make.


-- 
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden


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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 01:27:20 +0100
"Roberto P."  wrote:

> My 2 cents:
> 
> 1) a program routine is just a program routine, like pencils or a
> paintbrush; neither of them is symbol.
> If you are not comfortable with that symbol (any symbol that can be
> offensive to anyone), you just have not to paint it and not to call the
> routine.
> Think about the difference!
> (Example to help: I know at least a way to commit a homicide, but I don't
> call that routine of mine, therefore I am not guitly of homicide)
 
The unit provides example functions for some common symbols, especially
drawing flags (e.g. PaintBarbadosTrident, PaintCanadianMaple). 
It does not support a big amount of flags and symbols. It only supports
a few selected flags and one of them was the flag of the Nazis.
In that sense it was political and not the intention of Lazarus.


> 2) please, revert the change, just to remember to anyone what the project
> is, what the free software is.

You can still draw the symbol with a few lines of code.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Juha Manninen wrote:

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Terry A. Haimann  wrote:

As someone of Jewish heritage I say get rid of it.


Mattias actually removed the function, obeying like a good German boy
when somebody with "Jewish heritage" tells him. Uhhh, I can't believe
he did so!


I read what he said as meaning that he had removed it before Terry 
objected. English tenses can be vague, but let's give them the benefit 
of the doubt just this once.


As somebody who (I believe) lost family, rather than just claiming a 
certain heritage, could we please drop this.


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Re: [Lazarus] Reducing output when building bigide?

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

Bo Berglund wrote:

Whenever I build Lazarus 1.6RC1 bigide, using the terminal command
make bigide, there is a lot of seemingly unneeded screen output in the
form of hints regarding "Sender" not being used and such.
Is there any way to block this from being printed to screen? A
parameter for make or something similar.
Especially when I use a script to install fpc and lazarus it seems
like overkill to print all of that info.


I'd suggest that it would be very bad practice to suppress warning 
messages from trunk or an RC build. Apart from that you might be able to 
do something by by putting one of the -v variants into the OPT shell 
variable when running the make... I've not tried it.


One thing which would be useful at the Lazarus level would be 
suppression of blank lines emitted by the linker. The FPC team insists 
that this is not their problem, even when the linker has been invoked 
automatically by the compiler.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 23:27:50 +0200
Juha Manninen  wrote:

>[...]
> Unfortunately popular symbols get negative associations sometimes. How
> long it takes to get rid of them?

As long as it takes to get rid of Neo-Nazis.

How long does it take to find out that this thread is going off-topic?

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Dmitry Boyarintsev]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:48 AM, Marc Santhoff  wrote:

> It is. I'm living in Germany, and the law forbids the use of Nazi
> symbols. I don't know exactly, what it looks like, but there actually is
> a clear definition how it looks like. Probably the circle around the
> swastika and the color scheme play a role.
>

This is some sort of odd coincidence:
http://news.sky.com/story/1618909/hitlers-mein-kampf-on-sale-again-in-germany
But bans are expiring.

thanks,
Dmitry
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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Marc Santhoff]

On Fr, 2016-01-08 at 08:16 -0500, Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Marc Santhoff  wrote:
> 
> > People see something and are driven by feelings. I watched a case like
> > this already regarding FreeBSD. Some users insisted of changing the
> > deamon logo because they are afraif of the devil. Rather  ridiculous, it
> > actually was a cuddly toy or comic like figure, but in the end the logo
> > got changed.
> >
> 
> Was it changed? I can still see it on their official site.
> https://www.freebsd.org/
> 
> Btw, this is bsd thread (
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2010-July/219173.html)
> seems to be identical to PaintSwastika.

I did not follow it completely, bailed out early.

IIRC the startup screen having an ASCII-art was changed at least, even
better it was made switchable.

You're right, the old one is still or again visible, but it is the
mascot now. The official logo, seen above besides the FreeBSD-Name, is
only a sphere with two cone peaks.

It is used there, too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD

and the page has a paragraph about the logo, linking there:
http://www.osnews.com/story/9660/FreeBSD-logo-design-competition

So it were not only technical reasons reagarding graphics printing but
complaints motivated by religion that made it happen later on. Robert
Watson is one of the project leaders.

-- 
Marc Santhoff 


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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[ListMember]

Mattias,

This sudden eruption of political correctness inspired me; and, as a 
person of proper upbringing, it led me to realize just how offended I 
have been all through these years of the profanity and vulgar language 
sprinkled in and among Lazarus sourcecode.


A quick search reveals 69 occurrences of 'cunt' and 499 occurrences of 
'shit' (either as whole word or part of one) [see below for details].


Knowing that you're at least as sensitive as I am, I trust you will take 
immediate action to remove these offending words from the source code in 
order to keep it all pristine and immune to misinterpretation.


Thank you for your diligance.

== OCCURENCES OF 'cunt'==

Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\fpcunitlazideintf.pas
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 10890 bytes
Line  93 -   sFP*CUnT*estApp = 'FPCUnit Test Application';
Line  94 -   sFP*CUnT*estAppDesc = 'FPCUnit Test Application%sAn 
application to run '

Line  97 -   sFP*CUnT*estCase = 'FPCUnit Test Case';
Line  98 -   sFP*CUnT*estCaseDesc = 'FPCUnit Test Case%sA unit 
containing a FPCUnit Test '

Line 126 -   Result:=sFP*CUnT*estApp;
Line 134 -   Result:=Format(sFP*CUnT*estAppDesc,[le+le,le]);
Line 249 -   Result:=sFP*CUnT*estCase;
Line 254 -   Result:=Format(sFP*CUnT*estCaseDesc,[#13]);
Found 8 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.cs.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1625 bytes
Line  21 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  25 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  29 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  33 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.fr.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1787 bytes
Line  22 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  26 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  30 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  34 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.hu.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1654 bytes
Line  22 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  26 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  30 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  34 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.it.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1753 bytes
Line  22 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  26 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  30 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  34 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.lt.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1787 bytes
Line  22 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  26 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  30 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  34 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 908 bytes
Line  12 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  16 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  20 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  24 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : 
components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.pt_BR.po

2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1945 bytes
Line  21 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  25 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  30 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  34 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.ru.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 2146 bytes
Line  21 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  25 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  30 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  34 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\fpcunit\ide\languages\fpcunitlazideintf.uk.po
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 1809 bytes
Line  20 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estapp
Line  24 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estappdesc
Line  28 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcase
Line  32 - #: fpcunitlazideintf.sfp*cunt*estcasedesc
Found 4 occurrences.
Processing file : components\lazdebuggergdbmi\gdbmidebugger.pp
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 417263 bytes
Line 5925 - ProcessRunError; // will set dsPause / unless 
Can*Cunt*inue
Line 5931 - ProcessException; // will set dsPause / unless 
Can*Cunt*inue

Found 2 occurrences.
Processing file : components\pochecker\graphstat.pp
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 10531 bytes
Line 116 - AStat.NrUnTranslated, AStat.Per*cUnT*ranslated,
Line 229 - UnTranslated16Angle   := Round(AStat.Fra*cUnt*ranslated * 
FullCircle);

Found 2 occurrences.
Processing file : components\pochecker\pocheckerconsts.pas
2016-01-07 14:19:08, 8376 bytes
Line  97 -   sPer*cUnt*ranslated = '%s: %4.1f%% untranslated strings.';

Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[wkitty42]

On 01/08/2016 06:16 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:19:09 +0100
Zeljko  wrote:


[...]
Shall we ask hollywood producers to stop making
movies/documentaries which shows german nazi flag ? Shall we ask video
games makers to stop produce games which shows nazi symbols (eg.
wolfenstein) ? C'mon ppl what drugs do you use ?
Again, this is completely wrong. We are not political or religion
organization, we are talking about paint procedure which paints symbol.


There is a difference between forbidding a flag and promoting it.


having built-in procedures to paint flags and symbols is not promoting those 
symbols and flags...


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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Lukasz Sokol]

Hello Matthias,

On 08/01/16 10:40, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 23:27:50 +0200
> Juha Manninen  wrote:
> 
>> [...]
>> Unfortunately popular symbols get negative associations sometimes. How
>> long it takes to get rid of them?
> 
> As long as it takes to get rid of Neo-Nazis.

Writing as someone, who came from a place that was stuck long enough
between the 2 totalitarisms most vocally mentioned in this thread,

and had been taught about either of them, either from school or from books, or 
movies etc.
and from first-hand account of experience of either military presence,

( though I am too young to have seen them myself,
 my grandmother lived through evac from the nazi front of 1939; lived nearly 5 
years in nazi-occupied country;
 and then was 'liberated' by the soviets some years later, however unscathed, 
there were things happening, one can't unsee/ignore;
 and then my parents lived in a country quasi-remote-controlled from the east, 
half their adult lives;
 (yeah, Poland; speaking for myself only here tho)),

(I only include the above so you know where I'm coming from),

I only wish to say 2 things, in my own opinion:

- history when mistaught or not taught at all, tends to repeat itself (as we 
see all over the place, in this century)
Eradicating knowledge about what their ideologies were actually about, 
is a straight way to undo the efforts to get rid of them.

See how usage of the nazi symbols in most of countries is banned from public 
space, but allowed for educational purposes,
and that is IMO right.

- over-eagerness/zealotism is about /the/ only thing in the world worse than 
fascism.
That also applies to over-reaction to Political Correctness requests.

> 
> How long does it take to find out that this thread is going off-topic?
> 
It's long past. Now we exercise our Freedom of Speech rights ;J

> Mattias
> 
Lukasz


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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Dmitry Boyarintsev]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Marc Santhoff  wrote:

> People see something and are driven by feelings. I watched a case like
> this already regarding FreeBSD. Some users insisted of changing the
> deamon logo because they are afraif of the devil. Rather  ridiculous, it
> actually was a cuddly toy or comic like figure, but in the end the logo
> got changed.
>

Was it changed? I can still see it on their official site.
https://www.freebsd.org/

Btw, this is bsd thread (
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2010-July/219173.html)
seems to be identical to PaintSwastika.

thanks,
Dmitry
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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Marc Santhoff]

On Fr, 2016-01-08 at 08:25 -0500, Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 2:48 AM, Marc Santhoff  wrote:
> 
> > It is. I'm living in Germany, and the law forbids the use of Nazi
> > symbols. I don't know exactly, what it looks like, but there actually is
> > a clear definition how it looks like. Probably the circle around the
> > swastika and the color scheme play a role.
> >
> 
> This is some sort of odd coincidence:
> http://news.sky.com/story/1618909/hitlers-mein-kampf-on-sale-again-in-germany
> But bans are expiring.

It's in the news all day ...

The bavarian government, who owned the publishing rights, did not want
to allow re-printing. Now these rights are invalidated by german
copyright law.

The new release is a commented version, it shall be usable for teaching
because of the comments. A commission of scientists has taken three year
to make it.

OTOH the raw text is said to be downloadable from the internet very easy
ever sinc (the net exists).

But we're even further off topic now.

-- 
Marc Santhoff 


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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mattias Gaertner]

The historic relativism in some mails are shocking and shows
horrific lack of historic knowledge.
There was nothing good about the Nazis and it was their ideology and
symbolism that got them to power and still attracts people to their
twisted beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with a PaintSwastika or even a CrookedCross in
a library for flags and symbols. But extgraphics is merely a bunch of
example functions to draw some common flags.

Normally when someone proposes to remove a function there is a small
discussion what code is affected. As far as I see no one actually uses
the function. Instead it creates political discussions. This function
has failed its purpose.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Shaun O'Connor]

I concur completely,  Just because a particular  graphic is included in 
the distribution densest oblige one to make use of it.


If we all got nit picky about the meaning of various symbols we would 
never get anywhere, , I say let the matter rest and concentrate on 
continuing the good work of a fine open source project.


On 08/01/2016 15:34, Donald Ziesig wrote:

My two cents.

This has gotten completely out of hand.  When an item has multiple 
meanings (e.g., artistic, religious or offensive political history) we 
should give it the benefit of the doubt and LEAVE IT IN.


This is Lazarus (an international programming organization), not a 
totalitarian regime.  As was exemplified before, should we paint a 
Hindu who is printing a religious symbol with the same brush as a 
Neo-Nazi?  I say NO.  Most people who are technically competent enough 
to install and use Lazarus have the ability to draw anything they want 
anyway.


PLEASE, LET'S TERMINATE THIS THREAD, NOW!

Don Ziesig

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[markbass72]

my 2 cents

in a development environment there should be no room for any kind of 
symbolism, only primitives

any symbolism can safely stand in an external/extra/optional library

nomorelogic

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Donald Ziesig]

My two cents.

This has gotten completely out of hand.  When an item has multiple 
meanings (e.g., artistic, religious or offensive political history) we 
should give it the benefit of the doubt and LEAVE IT IN.


This is Lazarus (an international programming organization), not a 
totalitarian regime.  As was exemplified before, should we paint a Hindu 
who is printing a religious symbol with the same brush as a Neo-Nazi?  I 
say NO.  Most people who are technically competent enough to install and 
use Lazarus have the ability to draw anything they want anyway.


PLEASE, LET'S TERMINATE THIS THREAD, NOW!

Don Ziesig

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:05:56 -0500
wkitt...@windstream.net wrote:

>[...]
> > There is a difference between forbidding a flag and promoting it.
> 
> having built-in procedures to paint flags and symbols is not promoting those 
> symbols and flags...

I'm glad that you agree that removing a helper function is not
"forbidding".
I'm not a native English speaker so maybe "promoting" is the wrong
word. Maybe a better word is support, boost, encourage or help on.
Although after this long mail thread the function is
pretty much promoted.

Mattias

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