Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread waldo kitty

On 6/1/2013 14:50, William Oliveira Ferreira wrote:

Internet Brasil we have a close one: shot on own foot


that is pretty much opposite meaning of "a shot in the arm" ;)

see Alexsander Rosa's post with definitions... #2 fits this thread...


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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread William Oliveira Ferreira
Internet Brazil we have a close one: shot on own foot

_
William de Oliveira Ferreira
Em 01/06/2013 15:08, "Vincent Snijders" 
escreveu:

>
>
>> FWIW I think Lazarus IDE development could do with a shot in the arm.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>
> Vincent
>
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread William Oliveira Ferreira
Internet Brasil we have a close one: shot on own foot

_
William de Oliveira Ferreira
Em 01/06/2013 15:08, "Vincent Snijders" 
escreveu:

>
>
>> FWIW I think Lazarus IDE development could do with a shot in the arm.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>
> Vincent
>
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Alexsander Rosa
2013/6/1 Vincent Snijders 

>
>
>> FWIW I think Lazarus IDE development could do with a shot in the arm.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>
> Vincent
>
>
I had the same doubt... then I found this:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/shot+in+the+arm

*shot in the arm *
> *1.* *Lit.* an injection of medicine. The doctor administered the
> antidote to the poison by a shot in the arm.
> *2.* *Fig.* a boost or act of encouragement. The pep talk was a real shot
> in the arm for all the guys. The good test grade was a shot in the arm for
> Gary.
> *3.* *Fig.* a drink of liquor. I could use a little shot in the arm. How
> about a little shot in the arm, bartender?
> See also: arm , 
> shot
>
> McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The
> McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.
>


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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Vincent Snijders
>
> FWIW I think Lazarus IDE development could do with a shot in the arm.
>
> What does that mean?

Vincent
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread vfclists .
On 1 June 2013 14:22, Miquel Bruns  wrote:

> Dear Juha,
>
> We've installed both Lazarus and CodeTyphon Studio here, reading this
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/wiki/84-wiki/codetyphon-studio/223-codetyphon-statusat
>  CodeTyphon Wiki, we see how much they work for us the community. (with
> sources)
>
> We can wait some time to see what's happening... ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Miquel Matas.
>
>
> Salut!
> Miquel Matas.
>
>
>

My advice is to document what you do as well as you can, so that others can
use the information to contribute it back to the main Lazarus project.

FWIW I think Lazarus IDE development could do with a shot in the arm.
---
Frank Church

===
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Miquel Bruns
Dear Juha,

We've installed both Lazarus and CodeTyphon Studio here, reading this
http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/wiki/84-wiki/codetyphon-studio/223-codetyphon-statusat
CodeTyphon Wiki, we see how much they work for us the community. (with
sources)

We can wait some time to see what's happening... ;)

Cheers,
Miquel Matas.


Salut!
Miquel Matas.


2013/6/1 Juha Manninen 

> On 6/1/13, Miquel Bruns  wrote:
> > Please, be informed before acuse PilotLogic.
>
> We would love to be informed, yes. Can you Miquel please explain the
> policy of CodeTyphon?
> Why they _always_ fork the other projects and never contribute back to
> the original project?
> Often it does not make sense even from their point of view.
> They even forked my first "alpha" version of the DeleD 3-D design app,
> although I explicitly asked for help from others and the admin Jeroen
> promised commit access to anybody who wants it.
> I added a new comment to DeleD forum :
>   http://www.delgine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38532
>
> I know forking makes sense sometimes. A project may not be interested
> in Lazarus / cross-platform support, or they otherwise don't accept
> changes easily.
> But, most often projects have lack of resources and they would be
> happy to get contributors, and after a "test period" they would get
> commit access.
> Then CodeTyphon would benefit from bug fixes and improvements made by
> others. A win-win situation.
>
> I appreciate the CodeTyphon team because they are clearly talented
> programmers, yet I am puzzled with the political side. What is going
> on, honestly? What is their ultimate goal?
>
>
> > Sternas is a great man.
>
> Some people create a "following" by their mere existence and
> appearance, and then people write this kind of comments. Sternas may
> be one of those people.
> ... I am speculating now, I have never met the person ...
>
>
> Regards,
> Juha
>
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Juha Manninen
On 6/1/13, Miquel Bruns  wrote:
> Please, be informed before acuse PilotLogic.

We would love to be informed, yes. Can you Miquel please explain the
policy of CodeTyphon?
Why they _always_ fork the other projects and never contribute back to
the original project?
Often it does not make sense even from their point of view.
They even forked my first "alpha" version of the DeleD 3-D design app,
although I explicitly asked for help from others and the admin Jeroen
promised commit access to anybody who wants it.
I added a new comment to DeleD forum :
  http://www.delgine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38532

I know forking makes sense sometimes. A project may not be interested
in Lazarus / cross-platform support, or they otherwise don't accept
changes easily.
But, most often projects have lack of resources and they would be
happy to get contributors, and after a "test period" they would get
commit access.
Then CodeTyphon would benefit from bug fixes and improvements made by
others. A win-win situation.

I appreciate the CodeTyphon team because they are clearly talented
programmers, yet I am puzzled with the political side. What is going
on, honestly? What is their ultimate goal?


> Sternas is a great man.

Some people create a "following" by their mere existence and
appearance, and then people write this kind of comments. Sternas may
be one of those people.
... I am speculating now, I have never met the person ...


Regards,
Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread brian

On 05/31/2013 06:01 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

On 2013-05-30 21:53, brian wrote:

Perhaps they'll add support for Debian 7.0 multiarch. Based on
someone's posting in here a while back (I *think* yours, Graeme, but
I'm not certain)



I've never installed or used Debian.



I didn't mean to imply that you were a Debian user, Graeme, just that 
you (I think, I'm not 100% certain) were the one who made favourable 
comments about CodeTyphon.



Brian.

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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd

Reinier Olislagers wrote:


the project is not even GPL or other open source licenses.
They don't do it for science, just for money:
http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/wiki/84-wiki/codetyphon-studio/72-codetyphon-about



From that page:

"This Project is licensed as: Freeware."
also, as mentioned before, the IDE is GPL so it doesn't matter what they
put on their site, it will remain GPL.


I'm not saying I don't trust them, but I noticed the "Freeware" 
designation and was slightly uneasy. Apart from anything else my own 
feeling is that while they might say that it's /distributed/ as freeware 
they should still say that the /license/ is GPL etc. since that 
propagates to derivatives.


On the other hand they do prominently say that it's a derivative of 
Lazarus. I suggest that somebody prints the page that does that and gets 
it notarised, don't rely on being able to get a copy in the future from 
archive.org since in some jurisdictions that's considered "hearsay" and 
isn't admissible evidence.


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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Miquel Bruns
Please, be informed before acuse PilotLogic.

Sternas is a great man.

Salut!
Miquel Matas.


2013/6/1 Zaher Dirkey 

> 1 - First i hate forking projects it wast the efforts, split the team,
> while other team can work together with first one (i am not mentioning who
> give the reason for that splitting)
>
> 2 - PilotLogic, just feeling, they have plan to make it commercial (i
> don't know if it can be), but from here i smell the money :P
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys <
> gra...@geldenhuys.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
>> project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
>> Here are some "early days" screenshots.
>>
>>
>> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg
>>
>>
>> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg
>>
>>
>> They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
>> 64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
>> with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
>> etc.
>>
>>
>> For the full thread, here is the link.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>   - Graeme -
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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>
> Best Regards
> Zaher Dirkey
>
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Reinier Olislagers
On 1-6-2013 11:06, Eric Kom wrote:
> On 01/06/2013 10:27, Zaher Dirkey wrote:
>> 1 - First i hate forking projects it wast the efforts, split the team,
>> while other team can work together with first one (i am not mentioning
>> who give the reason for that splitting)
>>
>> 2 - PilotLogic, just feeling, they have plan to make it commercial (i
>> don't know if it can be), but from here i smell the money :P
> the project is not even GPL or other open source licenses.
> They don't do it for science, just for money:
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/wiki/84-wiki/codetyphon-studio/72-codetyphon-about

>From that page:
"This Project is licensed as: Freeware."
also, as mentioned before, the IDE is GPL so it doesn't matter what they
put on their site, it will remain GPL.
I suspect they don't mention licenses because there are too many for the
IDE, FPC, LCL, the various components they use, and their own glue
code/installer code (GPL, modified LGPL, probably MPL etc).
Finally: nothing in the (L)GPL prohibits you from selling the product,
as long as you provide the source. In practice this mainly boils down to
subscription/maintenance payments.

Regarding the forking: Zaher, I'd agree in principle with you, however I
don't suspect the PilotLogic guy/(guys?) are currently Lazarus devs. If
they want to improve the IDE, we can all benefit due to the GPL.

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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Eric Kom

On 01/06/2013 10:27, Zaher Dirkey wrote:
1 - First i hate forking projects it wast the efforts, split the team, 
while other team can work together with first one (i am not mentioning 
who give the reason for that splitting)


2 - PilotLogic, just feeling, they have plan to make it commercial (i 
don't know if it can be), but from here i smell the money :P

the project is not even GPL or other open source licenses.
They don't do it for science, just for money:
http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/wiki/84-wiki/codetyphon-studio/72-codetyphon-about




On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys 
mailto:gra...@geldenhuys.co.uk>> wrote:


Hi,

I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the
CodeTyphoon
project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own
route.
Here are some "early days" screenshots.


http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg


http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg


They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more
platforms
etc.


For the full thread, here is the link.



http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24


Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Best Regards
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-06-01 Thread Zaher Dirkey
1 - First i hate forking projects it wast the efforts, split the team,
while other team can work together with first one (i am not mentioning who
give the reason for that splitting)

2 - PilotLogic, just feeling, they have plan to make it commercial (i don't
know if it can be), but from here i smell the money :P


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
> project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
> Here are some "early days" screenshots.
>
>
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg
>
>
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg
>
>
> They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
> 64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
> with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
> etc.
>
>
> For the full thread, here is the link.
>
>
>
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24
>
>
> Regards,
>   - Graeme -
>
>
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Best Regards
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-31 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2013-05-30 21:53, brian wrote:
> Perhaps they'll add support for Debian 7.0 multiarch. Based on 
> someone's posting in here a while back (I *think* yours, Graeme, but 
> I'm not certain)


I've never installed or used Debian.

G.


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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread brian

On 05/30/2013 06:58 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

Perhaps they'll add support for Debian 7.0 multiarch. Based on 
someone's posting in here a while back (I *think* yours, Graeme, but 
I'm not certain), I set up a VM and downloaded CodeTyphon. I forget 
exactly what the problem was now (the details are all in their forums, 
and I was far from the only person having trouble using Debian 7.0 
multiarch). Their response was that Debian 7.0 was "unstable" and that 
I would have to wait for CodeTyphon 4.0 for it to be supported. As I 
didn't feel able to change my distro for the differences between 
CodeTyphon and Lazarus, I just wiped the VM and forgot about it.


Brian.


Hi,

I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
Here are some "early days" screenshots.

http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg

http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg


They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit&
64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
etc.


For the full thread, here is the link.


http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24


Regards,
   - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 2013-05-30 12:54, Henry Vermaak wrote:
> 
> This thread doesn't have any information about why they're doing this or
> what the improvements are.  Is there any other discussion?

There was another thread (sorry don’t have the link) where they
mentioned some issues with Lazarus IDE. I think it was issues building
up over some time. The current plan and information is limited though.
At the moment it is a "lab" project, where they experiment with ideas
and features. More information is promised as soon as they themselves
know more.


Regards,
  - Graeme -



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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread Henry Vermaak
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 08:40:14AM -0300, William Oliveira Ferreira wrote:
> Seems to be in a good path. They're fork Will be open source?

No choice, the Lazarus IDE is GPL, so all derivative work needs to be
supplied.

Henry

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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread Henry Vermaak
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:58:29AM +0100, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
> project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
> Here are some "early days" screenshots.
> 
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg
> 
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg
> 
> 
> They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
> 64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
> with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
> etc.
> 
> 
> For the full thread, here is the link.
> 
> 
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24

This thread doesn't have any information about why they're doing this or
what the improvements are.  Is there any other discussion?

Henry

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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

Hi,

I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
Here are some "early days" screenshots.



They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
etc.


It's notable that the "About" box shows x86_64-Solaris. Let's hope that 
any competition is kept friendly.


--
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Re: [Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread William Oliveira Ferreira
Seems to be in a good path. They're fork Will be open source?

_
William de Oliveira Ferreira
Em 30/05/2013 07:59, "Graeme Geldenhuys"  escreveu:

> Hi,
>
> I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
> project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
> Here are some "early days" screenshots.
>
>
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg
>
>
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg
>
>
> They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
> 64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
> with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
> etc.
>
>
> For the full thread, here is the link.
>
>
>
> http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24
>
>
> Regards,
>   - Graeme -
>
>
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[Lazarus] New competition for Lazarus

2013-05-30 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
Hi,

I just saw this thread. The PilotLogic guys (creators of the CodeTyphoon
project) has finally decided to fork Lazarus IDE and go their own route.
Here are some "early days" screenshots.

http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/OpenIntiana64_2013-05-27.jpg

http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/media/kunena/attachments/63/Screenshot_2013-05-28.jpg


They plan to add multi-architecture / dual personalities (32-bit &
64-bit executables) on a single system, improved cross-compile support
with easy switching and indicator, C/C++ support, support more platforms
etc.


For the full thread, here is the link.


http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/ct-lab-news/2509-ct-4-30-lab-new-ide?limitstart=0&start=24


Regards,
  - Graeme -


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