Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 05/01/2012 12:54 AM, Bernd wrote:
There are build modes.
In fact I do understand that I can create build mode variables (macros)
that can be checked with {$if in the source code, but I don't know how
to use those to select different compile options (such as smart linking,
optimizing or debug info creation).
-Michael
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Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 2012-05-02 11:31, Michael Schnell wrote:
On 05/01/2012 12:54 AM, Bernd wrote:
There are build modes.
In fact I do understand that I can create build mode variables
(macros) that can be checked with {$if in the source code, but I
don't know how to use those to select different compile options (such
as smart linking, optimizing or debug info creation).
-Michael
Build modes are not macros.
You can read here to know more about build modes:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Compiler_Options#Build_modes
Regards,
Žilvinas
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Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Am 30.04.2012 07:30 schrieb Richard Mace rich...@shrinkyourbills.co.uk: On 30 April 2012 04:49, Alexander Klenin kle...@gmail.com wrote: While I am personally ambivalent about the default state of -Xg switch, I'd like to point out another use case where it matters: compiling on Windows on slow machine with antivirus installed. When I tried to persuade my students to switch to Lazarus from Delphi, I've got many complaints about Lazarus being too slow. About a third of these complaints were fixed by either excluding Lazarus directory from AV's monitoring list, or turning -Xg on. Sorry, I might have missed this, but what would be the main disadvantage for a newbie of having the -Xg switch on at default. I don't really understand about the difference between having the debug info internal to the .exe or external, and I am guessing that the majority of people coming to Lazarus won't either. I just think the more people will be complaining about the default size of the .exe as apposed to having the debug info stored externally, unless I am really missing the point (quite possibly). The main disadvantage is that -Xg is rather untested (especially considering the things that Martin wrote about the IDE) so in the end it might be less newb friendly than the debug info included in the executable (co.Audrey questions like why can't I debug anymore?). Also AFAIK FPC's lineinfo units (for both Stabs and Dwarf) don't work with external debug info (I don't remember exactly so this needs to be tested). Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Alexander Klenin schrieb: While I am personally ambivalent about the default state of -Xg switch, I'd like to point out another use case where it matters: compiling on Windows on slow machine with antivirus installed. When I tried to persuade my students to switch to Lazarus from Delphi, I've got many complaints about Lazarus being too slow. About a third of these complaints were fixed by either excluding Lazarus directory from AV's monitoring list, or turning -Xg on. AV software tends to affect Delphi and its compiled projects, too. It's not a good idea to use AV software on a Windows development machine. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 16:56, Hans-Peter Diettrich drdiettri...@aol.com wrote: AV software tends to affect Delphi and its compiled projects, too. Yes, but in recent years Delphi was included in safe lists of most AV products. It's not a good idea to use AV software on a Windows development machine. It is also not a good idea to use Windows on a development machine :) However, we live in imperfect world. -- Alexander S. Klenin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 04/29/2012 12:09 PM, Martin wrote: Then you have an outdated debug info file, The release build could just delete this file (provided it's there where a corresponding debug build would create it). -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 04/30/2012 05:49 AM, Alexander Klenin wrote: When I tried to persuade my students to switch to Lazarus from Delphi, I've got many complaints about Lazarus being too slow. About a third of these complaints were fixed by either excluding Lazarus directory from AV's monitoring list, or turning -Xg on. Dud you not try to persuade them to use Linux (where Viruses are no big problem) . :-) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On Monday, April 30, 2012 09:37 Michael Schnell wrote: On 04/29/2012 12:09 PM, Martin wrote: Then you have an outdated debug info file, The release build could just delete this file (provided it's there where a corresponding debug build would create it). -Michael Please don't oversimplify a release build. At least one other difference is smart linking. You shouldn't smart link for debug purposes, but it would be a good idea to smart link for release. Also optimizations should be turned of for debug while they should (or at least could) be enabled for release. It helps to have several checks (overflow, range, etc.) on during debug too, but not for release. It is (or should) not simply (be) a matter of debug info. In that light I find the big exe even good as it gets users to find out why and think about debug/release builds. If they simply ship a debug exe (without actual debug info) they might still find bad things like slow performance etc, which might be caused by enabled checks and/or missing optimizations. I think you have to understand the full package to properly build release ready software. And a far too huge size might be the best indicator that something isn't right yet :-) -- Best Regards, Andreas pgpHENAoV3vac.pgp Description: PGP signature -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Well, the problem is the size of the exe file. ;-) When I am working on a project I usually want to generate debug information for debugging. But when I give the generated file to someone else I surely do not need this information in the exe file anymore. So why should I be forced to search for ways to delete this information from the exe if there could be a way to avoid this hassle? There is no need to search for ways to delete this information, you need only a proper workflow: exes compiled for distribution shall be compiled with release settings which means: - no debug info - symbols fully stripped - full optimization (which would make debugging harder) - asserts ignored - custom debug code ignored - ... Using debug and release settings is something very basic when working on software being deployed to others. This is interesting, I'd had never actually thought of a work flow like this. So, would you have 2x different projects? 1 with as dubug and the 2nd as release, or is there a better way of doing it? Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
2012/4/30 Richard Mace rich...@shrinkyourbills.co.uk: This is interesting, I'd had never actually thought of a work flow like this. So, would you have 2x different projects? 1 with as dubug and the 2nd as release, or is there a better way of doing it? There are build modes. There is a page in the project options dialog where you can set up different build modes and each can have different settings. There is also a toolbar button in the IDE main window to change the currently active build mode. The UI to configure the build modes is not yet as intuitive as it could ideally be but it works. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Richard Mace schrieb: ... you can either not generated debug info at all or generate external debug info (.dbg)... Is there any reason why the -Xg flag is not on at default? What's the disadvantage of using this flag? The reason I say is because there is a massive reduction in .exe size? Yes, that's what I wondered about too. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Am 28.04.2012 21:19, schrieb Richard Mace: On 28 April 2012 08:21, Reinier Olislagers reinierolislag...@gmail.com mailto:reinierolislag...@gmail.com wrote: On 28-4-2012 8:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Perhaps this will give you some ideas? http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Size_Matters#Incorrect_compiler_configuration ... you can either not generated debug info at all or generate external debug info (.dbg)... Is there any reason why the -Xg flag is not on at default? What's the disadvantage of using this flag? The reason I say is because there is a massive reduction in .exe size? What's the problem with the .exe size when compiling with debug info? If one compiles with debug settings, one usually wants to have the debug info? If not, don't use debug settings. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Florian Klämpfl schrieb: What's the problem with the .exe size when compiling with debug info? If one compiles with debug settings, one usually wants to have the debug info? If not, don't use debug settings. Well, the problem is the size of the exe file. ;-) When I am working on a project I usually want to generate debug information for debugging. But when I give the generated file to someone else I surely do not need this information in the exe file anymore. So why should I be forced to search for ways to delete this information from the exe if there could be a way to avoid this hassle? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Am 29.04.2012 11:12, schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: Florian Klämpfl schrieb: What's the problem with the .exe size when compiling with debug info? If one compiles with debug settings, one usually wants to have the debug info? If not, don't use debug settings. Well, the problem is the size of the exe file. ;-) When I am working on a project I usually want to generate debug information for debugging. But when I give the generated file to someone else I surely do not need this information in the exe file anymore. So why should I be forced to search for ways to delete this information from the exe if there could be a way to avoid this hassle? There is no need to search for ways to delete this information, you need only a proper workflow: exes compiled for distribution shall be compiled with release settings which means: - no debug info - symbols fully stripped - full optimization (which would make debugging harder) - asserts ignored - custom debug code ignored - ... Using debug and release settings is something very basic when working on software being deployed to others. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 29 April 2012 11:21, Florian Klämpfl flor...@freepascal.org wrote: Using debug and release settings is something very basic when working on software being deployed to others. I fully agree. MSEide has project setting groups where you can define debug and release settings. Lazarus IDE I believe now has such functionality too in Trunk. This is even possible from the command line using something like: fpc @debug.cfg myproject.pas fpc @release.cfg myproject.pas The 'debug.cfg' and 'release.cfg' are simply text files with compiler settings (one per line). -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 29/04/2012 09:56, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Richard Mace schrieb: ... you can either not generated debug info at all or generate external debug info (.dbg)... Is there any reason why the -Xg flag is not on at default? What's the disadvantage of using this flag? The reason I say is because there is a massive reduction in .exe size? Yes, that's what I wondered about too. Probably it is simple less tested, and therefore it is unknown if in works in all situations. Also, I guess it is more error prone. Compile with external debug, then make changes, recompile but with release settings. Then you have an outdated debug info file, and if you happen to run that in the debugger, you get a lot of strange things -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 29/04/2012 10:12, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Florian Klämpfl schrieb: What's the problem with the .exe size when compiling with debug info? If one compiles with debug settings, one usually wants to have the debug info? If not, don't use debug settings. Well, the problem is the size of the exe file. ;-) When I am working on a project I usually want to generate debug information for debugging. But when I give the generated file to someone else I surely do not need this information in the exe file anymore. So why should I be forced to search for ways to delete this information from the exe if there could be a way to avoid this hassle? Well, most people need 2 build profiles anyway. For when I debug I have -Crio -O1, heap trc and other flags. On release I have -O2, and no -C, no heaptrc... -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Martin schrieb: On 29/04/2012 09:56, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Also, I guess it is more error prone. Compile with external debug, then make changes, recompile but with release settings. Then you have an outdated debug info file, and if you happen to run that in the debugger, you get a lot of strange things Give the executable different names. When debugging, the exe name is irrelevant since the application will be started by F9. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 29/04/2012 13:00, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Martin schrieb: On 29/04/2012 09:56, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Also, I guess it is more error prone. Compile with external debug, then make changes, recompile but with release settings. Then you have an outdated debug info file, and if you happen to run that in the debugger, you get a lot of strange things Give the executable different names. When debugging, the exe name is irrelevant since the application will be started by F9. Then you can always generate 2 exe too. One with and one without dbg info... If you generate, the 2 exe individually, people may debug their latest changes, and then ship the release exe, from the day before I am not saying, that external debug info could not be made default. And neither do I say, that the current solution has no problems (it obviously has) In fact I think it would be great if it could be changed to use external dbg info (assuming it is done right). Just pointing out, it is probably not as easy, as just a new default for that checkbox. - Test it on various platforms, cross compile, remote debug, (ideally add to the debugger test suit) - Test it for projects with starter/host application (debug libraries with external info) - different gdb versions (at least 7.0 to 7.4 / 6.3.50 on Mac) - implement checks in the IDE so no old file will be used accidental (different name; or remove/rename old dbg info file) Maybe other things I haven't thought of. In any case, while nice to have, it is nothing I am going to bother about. There is plenty other, that I find more important. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
Martin schrieb: Is there any reason why the -Xg flag is not on at default? What's the disadvantage of using this flag? The reason I say is because there is a massive reduction in .exe size? Yes, that's what I wondered about too. Also, I guess it is more error prone. Compile with external debug, then make changes, recompile but with release settings. Then you have an outdated debug info file, and if you happen to run that in the debugger, you get a lot of strange things Realy? If you compile without (external) debug info can you still run the debugger from the IDE? If yes, this has to be disabled of course. If not, then there is no danger that an outdated debug info file can be used. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 29/04/2012 16:54, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Martin schrieb: Is there any reason why the -Xg flag is not on at default? What's the disadvantage of using this flag? The reason I say is because there is a massive reduction in .exe size? Yes, that's what I wondered about too. Also, I guess it is more error prone. Compile with external debug, then make changes, recompile but with release settings. Then you have an outdated debug info file, and if you happen to run that in the debugger, you get a lot of strange things Realy? If you compile without (external) debug info can you still run the debugger from the IDE? If yes, this has to be disabled of course. If not, then there is no danger that an outdated debug info file can be used. Again, not that simple. Currently, I can start the app (without debug info) by pressing F9. Just as a way to run it. Not to debug it. So if that was no longer possible, then alternate means need to be created, to just run (there is a feature request for that already) But *IF* such a check would be added. the appropriate way for the IDE to check is not to see, if the last compile did have dbg info. It is to check, if the debug info is available. Example: I often use the Run Param Host App to debug a different version of the executable. It works perfect. Of course that still works, even if the last compiled exe has no debug info. And one can also compile the project outside the IDE, and debug it in the IDE . And, of course that makes it even more complicated: because if I debug a dll, I might have a project loaded that does uses the dll. I would have to test, if the debugger can use the dll's debug info, if the host app has no debug info (I do not know) --- Again, yes the situation can (and need/should) be improved. But again: not that simple. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
While I am personally ambivalent about the default state of -Xg switch, I'd like to point out another use case where it matters: compiling on Windows on slow machine with antivirus installed. When I tried to persuade my students to switch to Lazarus from Delphi, I've got many complaints about Lazarus being too slow. About a third of these complaints were fixed by either excluding Lazarus directory from AV's monitoring list, or turning -Xg on. -- Alexander S. Klenin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 30 April 2012 04:49, Alexander Klenin kle...@gmail.com wrote: While I am personally ambivalent about the default state of -Xg switch, I'd like to point out another use case where it matters: compiling on Windows on slow machine with antivirus installed. When I tried to persuade my students to switch to Lazarus from Delphi, I've got many complaints about Lazarus being too slow. About a third of these complaints were fixed by either excluding Lazarus directory from AV's monitoring list, or turning -Xg on. Sorry, I might have missed this, but what would be the main disadvantage for a newbie of having the -Xg switch on at default. I don't really understand about the difference between having the debug info internal to the .exe or external, and I am guessing that the majority of people coming to Lazarus won't either. I just think the more people will be complaining about the default size of the .exe as apposed to having the debug info stored externally, unless I am really missing the point (quite possibly). Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 28-4-2012 8:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Perhaps this will give you some ideas? http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Size_Matters#Incorrect_compiler_configuration ... you can either not generated debug info at all or generate external debug info (.dbg)... Regards, Reinier -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 28 April 2012 08:21, Reinier Olislagers reinierolislag...@gmail.comwrote: On 28-4-2012 8:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Perhaps this will give you some ideas? http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Size_Matters#Incorrect_compiler_configuration ... you can either not generated debug info at all or generate external debug info (.dbg)... Regards, Reinier Thanks, I'll try with the -Xg switch Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 28.04.2012 08:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Thanks in advance Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus my DAU method is in terminal on linux strip --strip-all ./MyApplication -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 28.04.2012 08:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Thanks in advance Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus my DAU method is in terminal on linux strip --strip-all ./MyApplication strip.exe for Win is part of your fpc bin directory: /lazarus/fpc/2.5.1/bin/i386-win32/strip.exe -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 28 April 2012 11:03, John Landmesser joh...@online.de wrote: On 28.04.2012 08:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Thanks in advance Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing listLazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.orghttp://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus my DAU method is in terminal on linux strip --strip-all ./MyApplication strip.exe for Win is part of your fpc bin directory: /lazarus/fpc/2.5.1/bin/i386-win32/strip.exe Would this be instead of the -Xg switch or as well as? Or does it do the same thing? Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Strip debug info
On 28 April 2012 08:21, Reinier Olislagers reinierolislag...@gmail.comwrote: On 28-4-2012 8:57, Richard Mace wrote: Hi, What's the safest way of making the .exe smaller than default? Is it just to strip debug info? How would I do this? Perhaps this will give you some ideas? http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Size_Matters#Incorrect_compiler_configuration ... you can either not generated debug info at all or generate external debug info (.dbg)... Is there any reason why the -Xg flag is not on at default? What's the disadvantage of using this flag? The reason I say is because there is a massive reduction in .exe size? Richard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
