Re: How does --unrealized work?
Dear Richar,
Thanks for this very useful example.
I don't use ledger's commodity conversion methods ({}, @, etc.). I instead
use the "trading accounts
"
method of recording commodity conversions. I wanted to test how that
method would perform with this example.
2018/12/31 Opening Balances
Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL
Trading:Stocks:USD -2 AAPL
Trading:USD:Stocks $1000.00
Equity:Opening Balances$-1000.00
P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540.00
2019/02/02 Sell share
Assets:Stocks-1 AAPL
Trading:Stocks:USD1 AAPL
Trading:USD:Stocks $-500.00
Income:Capital Gain $-40.00
Assets:Checking $540.00
P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540.00
2019/02/10 Buy share
Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL
Trading:Stocks:USD -1 AAPL
Trading:USD:Stocks $490.00
Assets:Checking $-490.00
P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525
I query unrealized gains+losses using
$ ledger -f temp.ledg bal Trading -X '$'
$-60.00 Trading
$-1050.00Stocks:USD
$990.00USD:Stocks
$-60.00
This shows the unrealized gains correctly at $-60.00 (it's unrealized
income, so the sign is negative). Similarly, if you record the lot price
as '@ 500.00', you can get similar results with your example:
2018/12/31 Opening Balances
Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500.00
Equity:Opening Balances
P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540.00
2019/02/02 Broker
Assets:Stocks-1 AAPL @ $500.00
Income:Capital Gains $-40.00
Assets:Checking $540.00
P 2019/02/10 AAPL $490.00
2019/02/10 Broker
Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $490.00
Assets:Checking $-490.00
P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525.00
if you query for the unrealized gain now, you get:
$ ledger -f temp.ldg bal -X '$' --unrealized
$1100.00 Assets
$50.00Checking
$1050.00Stocks
$-1060.00 Equity
$-1000.00Opening Balances
$-70.00Unrealized Gains
$10.00Unrealized Losses
$-40.00 Income:Capital Gains
0
That shows the correct figure. However, if you follow the ledger syntax of
recording sales as "1 AAPL {$500.00} @ $540.00", it doesn't work.
Now for the additional bug:
As per the ledger manual
, "1
AAPL {$500.00}" and "1 AAPL @ $500.00" are equivalent. However, I get
different results depending on how I record the initial transaction.
2018/12/31 Opening Balances
Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL {$500}
Equity:Opening Balances
P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540
2019/02/02 Broker
Assets:Stocks -1 AAPL @ $500 ;@ $540.00
Income:Capital Gains-$40.00
Assets:Checking $540.00
P 2019/02/10 AAPL $490
2019/02/10 Broker
Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $490
Assets:Checking$-490.00
P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525
---
$ ledger -f temp.ldg bal -X '$' --unrealized
$1100.00 Assets
$50.00Checking
$1050.00Stocks
$-1060.00 Equity
$-1050.00Opening Balances
$-10.00Unrealized Gains
$-40.00 Income:Capital Gains
0
Instead of "Unrealized Gains" being "$-70.00" and "Unrealized Losses" being
"$10.00", I get "Unrealized Gains" of "$-10.00", and "Opening Balances" of
"$-1050.00" (rather than "$-1000.00"). If I use the {} syntax instead of
the @ syntax, "Opening Balances" seems to use "AAPL" as its commodity,
rather than "$". Go figure.
Regards,
Pranesh
On Saturday, 9 March 2019 02:40:49 UTC+5:30, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> In trying to answer Chary's question, I have realized I do not have a
> very good grip on how to think about "unrealized" gains and losses, and
> how ledger calculates them. So I wrote a few test cases to help explain
> it to myself. (Can you tell I'm procrastinating a little bit? ;) I am
> not sure, but I *may* have discovered a bug: see Example 3. Can someone
> explain this to me?
>
> Example 1: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the
> entire period, during which its value fluctuates. Say you hold 2
> shares of AAPL. At the beginning of the
Re: Possible bug: Re: How does --unrealized work?
Hello,
I think, the question of where ledger gets it is answered by this:
$ ledger reg -f list.ldg --revalued -X '$' -w
18-Dec-31 Opening Balances Assets:Stocks
$1000$1000
Equity:Opening Balances
$-10000
19-Feb-01 Commodities revalued
$80 $80
19-Feb-02 Broker Assets:Stocks
$-540$-460
Assets:Checking
$540 $80
19-Feb-10 Commodities revalued
$-50 $30
19-Feb-10 Broker Assets:Stocks
$490 $520
Assets:Checking
$-490 $30
19-Mar-01 Commodities revalued
$70 $100
It seems to me it is the gains are the sum of the positive, while the
losses the negative revaluations.
What I couldn't wrap my head around is this:
MAC-0073934:Private f7745312$ ledger reg -f list.ldg --lot-prices -w
18-Dec-31 Opening Balances Assets:Stocks
2 AAPL {$500}2 AAPL {$500}
Equity:Opening Balances
$-1000 $-1000
2 AAPL {$500}
19-Feb-02 Broker Assets:Stocks
-1 AAPL {$540} $-1000
2 AAPL {$500}
-1 AAPL {$540}
Assets:Checking
$540$-460
2 AAPL {$500}
-1 AAPL {$540}
19-Feb-10 Broker Assets:Stocks
1 AAPL {$490}$-460
1 AAPL {$490}
2 AAPL {$500}
-1 AAPL {$540}
Assets:Checking
$-490$-950
1 AAPL {$490}
2 AAPL {$500}
-1 AAPL {$540}
Does that mean, ledger is unable to decide which one I really sold? Or am I
missing the point of the whole lot-pricing system?
Regards,
Dan
On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 at 06:28, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> * Richard Lawrence [2019-03-22 13:10]:
> > I never got a reply, so since it's possible there's a bug here, I
> > thought I would bump this message. Does anyone have any insights about
> > my Example 3?
>
> I think we need John to comment on this. It certainly looks incorrect
> to me.
> --
> Martin Michlmayr
> https://www.cyrius.com/
>
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>
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Re: Possible bug: Re: How does --unrealized work?
* Richard Lawrence [2019-03-22 13:10]: > I never got a reply, so since it's possible there's a bug here, I > thought I would bump this message. Does anyone have any insights about > my Example 3? I think we need John to comment on this. It certainly looks incorrect to me. -- Martin Michlmayr https://www.cyrius.com/ -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Possible bug: Re: How does --unrealized work?
Hi all, I never got a reply, so since it's possible there's a bug here, I thought I would bump this message. Does anyone have any insights about my Example 3? Best, Richard Richard Lawrence writes: > Hi everyone, > > In trying to answer Chary's question, I have realized I do not have a > very good grip on how to think about "unrealized" gains and losses, and > how ledger calculates them. So I wrote a few test cases to help explain > it to myself. (Can you tell I'm procrastinating a little bit? ;) I am > not sure, but I *may* have discovered a bug: see Example 3. Can someone > explain this to me? > > Example 1: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the > entire period, during which its value fluctuates. Say you hold 2 > shares of AAPL. At the beginning of the period, each is worth $500. > At the end, each is worth $525. > > 2018/12/31 Opening Balances > Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 > Equity:Opening Balances > > P 2019/01/01 AAPL $500 > P 2019/02/01 AAPL $515 > P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 > > The unrealized gain is then: > (2 AAPL * $525) - (2 AAPL * $500) = $1050 - $1000 = $50 > i.e., > (end quantity * end price) - (beginning quantity * beginning price) > > That is exactly what ledger reports, with --unrealized: > > ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized > >$1050 Assets:Stocks > $-50 Equity:Unrealized Gains > >$1000 > > == > Example 2: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the > entire period, but you also acquire more at some point in the > middle. Say you hold 2 AAPL at the beginning of the period, each > worth $500. At some later point, when AAPL is up to $510, you buy > one more share. At the end of the period, all three shares are > worth $525. > > 2018/12/31 Opening Balances > Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 > Assets:Checking $1000.00 > Equity:Opening Balances > > P 2019/01/01 AAPL $500 > > P 2019/02/01 AAPL $510 > > 2019/02/02 Broker > Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $510.00 > Assets:Checking > > P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 > > I would then expect the unrealized gain to be: > (3 AAPL * $525) - (2 AAPL * $500 + 1 AAPL * $510) = $65 > > Again, this is just what ledger says: > > ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized > $1575.00 Assets:Stocks > $-65.00 Equity:Unrealized Gains > > $1510.00 > > == > Now for the problematic example: > > Example 3: you sell some stock at one point when the price > rises, and reacquire it when the price drops. Say you start holding > 2 shares of AAPL, each worth $500. Then, when the price is up to > $540, you sell one share, resulting in a realized gain of $40. > Later, the price drops to $490 and you buy another share. At the > end of the period, the price is $525, and you also have $50 in the bank. > > 2018/12/31 Opening Balances > Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 > Equity:Opening Balances > > P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540 > > 2019/02/02 Broker > Assets:Stocks -1 AAPL @ $540.00 > Assets:Checking > > P 2019/02/10 AAPL $490 > > 2019/02/10 Broker > Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $490 > Assets:Checking > > P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 > > Now, what is the unrealized gain here? First of all, it's not clear how > this should be calculated. I thought of two reasonable ways to > calculate it, which give different results. From one perspective, this > example is the same as Example 1: you started and ended the period with > 2 shares of AAPL, worth $500 each at the beginning and $525 at the end, > for an unrealized gain of $50. But following the logic of Example 2, > counting unrealized gains only from the first time the share is > acquired, we'd get: > $525 - $500 = $25 unrealized gain for Share #1 (held the whole period) > $525 - $490 = $35 unrealized gain for Share #3 (bought on 2019/02/10) > leading to a total of $60 of unrealized gain. > > Ledger actually does it differently. It says we have $150 in > unrealized gains, and $50 in unrealized losses: > > ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized > $1050.00 Assets:Stocks > $-100.00 Equity > $-150.00Unrealized Gains > $50.00Unrealized Losses > > $950.00 > > Huh? Here's what I think is going on: > > Consider Share #1, held for the whole period. > It first gained $40 in value, lost $50, and then gained $35. > So, $75 in unrealized gains, $50 in unrealized losses. > > Share #3 was bought at $490 and then moved to $525 at the end of
Re: How does --unrealized work?
Richard, I have read your investigation, did the same testing and I agree with you. It is not logical for me either, how ledger shows unrealized gains in your example. But this is actually another reason I was looking for a such single "total income statement-like report", because one could use it for verification. A delta between Net Worth of 2 balance sheets reports shall always be equal to total Net Income over the time period between these 2 Balance Sheet reports. This shall be true for any period and when expressed in any currency (-X option) Regards. On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 10:10:49 PM UTC+1, Richard Lawrence wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > In trying to answer Chary's question, I have realized I do not have a > very good grip on how to think about "unrealized" gains and losses, and > how ledger calculates them. So I wrote a few test cases to help explain > it to myself. (Can you tell I'm procrastinating a little bit? ;) I am > not sure, but I *may* have discovered a bug: see Example 3. Can someone > explain this to me? > > Example 1: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the > entire period, during which its value fluctuates. Say you hold 2 > shares of AAPL. At the beginning of the period, each is worth $500. > At the end, each is worth $525. > > 2018/12/31 Opening Balances > Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 > Equity:Opening Balances > > P 2019/01/01 AAPL $500 > P 2019/02/01 AAPL $515 > P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 > > The unrealized gain is then: > (2 AAPL * $525) - (2 AAPL * $500) = $1050 - $1000 = $50 > i.e., > (end quantity * end price) - (beginning quantity * beginning price) > > That is exactly what ledger reports, with --unrealized: > > ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized > >$1050 Assets:Stocks > $-50 Equity:Unrealized Gains > >$1000 > > == > Example 2: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the > entire period, but you also acquire more at some point in the > middle. Say you hold 2 AAPL at the beginning of the period, each > worth $500. At some later point, when AAPL is up to $510, you buy > one more share. At the end of the period, all three shares are > worth $525. > > 2018/12/31 Opening Balances > Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 > Assets:Checking $1000.00 > Equity:Opening Balances > > P 2019/01/01 AAPL $500 > > P 2019/02/01 AAPL $510 > > 2019/02/02 Broker > Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $510.00 > Assets:Checking > > P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 > > I would then expect the unrealized gain to be: > (3 AAPL * $525) - (2 AAPL * $500 + 1 AAPL * $510) = $65 > > Again, this is just what ledger says: > > ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized > $1575.00 Assets:Stocks > $-65.00 Equity:Unrealized Gains > > $1510.00 > > == > Now for the problematic example: > > Example 3: you sell some stock at one point when the price > rises, and reacquire it when the price drops. Say you start holding > 2 shares of AAPL, each worth $500. Then, when the price is up to > $540, you sell one share, resulting in a realized gain of $40. > Later, the price drops to $490 and you buy another share. At the > end of the period, the price is $525, and you also have $50 in the bank. > > 2018/12/31 Opening Balances > Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 > Equity:Opening Balances > > P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540 > > 2019/02/02 Broker > Assets:Stocks -1 AAPL @ $540.00 > Assets:Checking > > P 2019/02/10 AAPL $490 > > 2019/02/10 Broker > Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $490 > Assets:Checking > > P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 > > Now, what is the unrealized gain here? First of all, it's not clear how > this should be calculated. I thought of two reasonable ways to > calculate it, which give different results. From one perspective, this > example is the same as Example 1: you started and ended the period with > 2 shares of AAPL, worth $500 each at the beginning and $525 at the end, > for an unrealized gain of $50. But following the logic of Example 2, > counting unrealized gains only from the first time the share is > acquired, we'd get: > $525 - $500 = $25 unrealized gain for Share #1 (held the whole period) > $525 - $490 = $35 unrealized gain for Share #3 (bought on 2019/02/10) > leading to a total of $60 of unrealized gain. > > Ledger actually does it differently. It says we have $150 in > unrealized gains, and $50 in unrealized losses: > > ledger -f
How does --unrealized work?
Hi everyone, In trying to answer Chary's question, I have realized I do not have a very good grip on how to think about "unrealized" gains and losses, and how ledger calculates them. So I wrote a few test cases to help explain it to myself. (Can you tell I'm procrastinating a little bit? ;) I am not sure, but I *may* have discovered a bug: see Example 3. Can someone explain this to me? Example 1: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the entire period, during which its value fluctuates. Say you hold 2 shares of AAPL. At the beginning of the period, each is worth $500. At the end, each is worth $525. 2018/12/31 Opening Balances Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 Equity:Opening Balances P 2019/01/01 AAPL $500 P 2019/02/01 AAPL $515 P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 The unrealized gain is then: (2 AAPL * $525) - (2 AAPL * $500) = $1050 - $1000 = $50 i.e., (end quantity * end price) - (beginning quantity * beginning price) That is exactly what ledger reports, with --unrealized: ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized $1050 Assets:Stocks $-50 Equity:Unrealized Gains $1000 == Example 2: you hold a certain quantity of stock throughout the entire period, but you also acquire more at some point in the middle. Say you hold 2 AAPL at the beginning of the period, each worth $500. At some later point, when AAPL is up to $510, you buy one more share. At the end of the period, all three shares are worth $525. 2018/12/31 Opening Balances Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 Assets:Checking $1000.00 Equity:Opening Balances P 2019/01/01 AAPL $500 P 2019/02/01 AAPL $510 2019/02/02 Broker Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $510.00 Assets:Checking P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 I would then expect the unrealized gain to be: (3 AAPL * $525) - (2 AAPL * $500 + 1 AAPL * $510) = $65 Again, this is just what ledger says: ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized $1575.00 Assets:Stocks $-65.00 Equity:Unrealized Gains $1510.00 == Now for the problematic example: Example 3: you sell some stock at one point when the price rises, and reacquire it when the price drops. Say you start holding 2 shares of AAPL, each worth $500. Then, when the price is up to $540, you sell one share, resulting in a realized gain of $40. Later, the price drops to $490 and you buy another share. At the end of the period, the price is $525, and you also have $50 in the bank. 2018/12/31 Opening Balances Assets:Stocks 2 AAPL @ $500 Equity:Opening Balances P 2019/02/01 AAPL $540 2019/02/02 Broker Assets:Stocks -1 AAPL @ $540.00 Assets:Checking P 2019/02/10 AAPL $490 2019/02/10 Broker Assets:Stocks 1 AAPL @ $490 Assets:Checking P 2019/03/01 AAPL $525 Now, what is the unrealized gain here? First of all, it's not clear how this should be calculated. I thought of two reasonable ways to calculate it, which give different results. From one perspective, this example is the same as Example 1: you started and ended the period with 2 shares of AAPL, worth $500 each at the beginning and $525 at the end, for an unrealized gain of $50. But following the logic of Example 2, counting unrealized gains only from the first time the share is acquired, we'd get: $525 - $500 = $25 unrealized gain for Share #1 (held the whole period) $525 - $490 = $35 unrealized gain for Share #3 (bought on 2019/02/10) leading to a total of $60 of unrealized gain. Ledger actually does it differently. It says we have $150 in unrealized gains, and $50 in unrealized losses: ledger -f test.journal bal Assets:Stocks -X '$' --unrealized $1050.00 Assets:Stocks $-100.00 Equity $-150.00Unrealized Gains $50.00Unrealized Losses $950.00 Huh? Here's what I think is going on: Consider Share #1, held for the whole period. It first gained $40 in value, lost $50, and then gained $35. So, $75 in unrealized gains, $50 in unrealized losses. Share #3 was bought at $490 and then moved to $525 at the end of the period. So, that's another $35 in unrealized gains. Together with Share #1's unrealized gains, that's a total of $110. Share #2 was sold at the first price move, on 2019/02/02. As far as I can see, it should have *no* unrealized gains or losses. (It has, instead, a *realized* gain of $40.) Ledger reports $150 in unrealized gains rather than $110, so it must be including that $40 from Share #2 as unrealized gains. That
