RE: [LegacyUG] TNG and Sources [was: Testing Legacy Web Pages]
As this is a Legacy forum, I don’t wish to promote or discuss in detail, other software. All I wanted to do was respond for the benefit of all concerned as to the issue of old and unsupported software when PHPGedview was raised. Stuart From: John Lisle [mailto:leg...@johnlisle.com] Sent: Wednesday, 15 April 2015 1:56 PM To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] TNG and Sources [was: Testing Legacy Web Pages] Barton, Margaret, Stuart, et al, In many of my previous posts, I have talked about differences in the data models between various genealogy programs. When you look at sources, you see some of the widest range of variations in data model. As most folks know who do Gedcom exports, the data model of SourceWriter sources is such that no effective way was found to do a Gedcom export and retain the source as a SourceWriter source. So the source is exported as a Basic source and re-imported as a basic source. I believe this is may be the only major function is a Gedcom export of a Legacy style Gedcom that is not restored identically when re-imported. Given that, one data model discrepancy between Legacy and TNG (Stuart, you should tell us about webtrees) is that Legacy allows you to add Media to a Source Citation. TNG does not; TNG only adds media to a Master Source record. But the Media is not lost, it is just added to the Source record. To be fair, I believe that Legacy may be the only genealogy program that allows media to be attached to citations. However, you decide to publish your genealogy, either on paper or on the web, you need to understand how your tools work and then arrange your data so that you need to do the manual labor to effect the published result. Barton, I should point out that you can facilitate linking of media when you upload your Legacy Gedcom to TNG, but at least once, you will need to manually edit each of your media when you first upload them as another data model difference is how that TNG has important media controls that Legacy does not have. TNG will remember those settings from Gedcom upload to upload, but new media will be improved if you edit them each on the TNG side. I prefer to GeoCode with my Legacy file and upload the Lat/long coords with the Gedcom. john. At 04:54 PM 4/14/2015, Margaret Turner wrote: With regard to sources and tng. 1. If any event is sourced, then they have a footnote suffix, 2.These numbered sources are listed at the bottom of a person's page http://turnermob.com/getperson.php?personID=I245 http://turnermob.com/getperson.php?personID=I245tree=turner tree=turner (I use Legacy 7, basic sources and my reserach dates from late 1997 so I many sources are not in the Mills Evidence Explained http://news.legacyfamilytree.com/legacy_news/2013/07/legacy-family-tree-8-revealed-sources.html http://www.legacyfamilytreestore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EV2 PS I use Legacy as my database, upload gedcom to tng, and customised the tng-suppled templates. :) Margaret On 15 April 2015 at 06:04, BARTON LEWIS bartonle...@optonline.net mailto:bartonle...@optonline.net wrote: After looking over many pages at TNG, an objection I have is that Sources is a separate page that is unlinked to any other. If you upload your GEDCOM to TNG, what happens to all your sources? Do they become separated from the events they document, or are they transferred over at all? I envision using my website to document a line one at a time, uploading all the original source documentation or abstracts from published books, etc. I would like to combine a narrative with some descendant data, but probably not all. I liked Pat Hickin's tree at wikitree for this reason, and that the sources were all displayed as footnotes and so easily seen in context with the events they documented. Barton On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 02:33 PM, John Lisle wrote: Barton, Although WC and FS do not (easily) take media, they are worthwhile as places to archive your genealogy that also makes your research available to different audiences. One of my issues with using Cable company for web site (or email address) is that you might drop your cable company and then lose your site. If you are using TNG or webtrees or some other tool with collaborative ability, you could lose data and you might also lose the value of having a search engine document your site. In general, Comcast and that ilk does not support PHP and MySQL sites nor sites as large as you will probably want, as soon as you start adding media. :-) They may be restricted to various size or bandwidth limits. (As an aside, some folks have mentioned hosting services that offer unlimited space and bandwidth. Every one of them have other limits, usually CPU usage or the like and tend to be quite cruel in deciding to kick you off if you hit one of their hidden limits. Look for a reputable hosting service that has 24/7 support.
RE: [LegacyUG] Testing Legacy Web Pages
For Barton, John and others interested, The open source PHPGedview has not been actively supported for a number of years since the main developer and a lot of others moved to create webtrees. I would definitely not recommend using PHPGedview. Webtrees is open source and therefore free, unlike TNG (The Next Generation). I have been a user of Legacy and webtrees for many years and PHPGedview for several years prior to moving to webtrees. For many years my webtrees site has been my prime database and I occasionally export a Gedcom from my site and create a new Legacy .fdb file so as to create reports that aren't available using webtrees. Although I back up my MySQL database every night, creating a new Legacy .fdb is another form of backup. Stuart -Original Message- From: John Lisle [mailto:leg...@johnlisle.com] Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2015 1:39 PM To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Testing Legacy Web Pages Barton, Two basic types of family tree sites exist: static pages and dynamic pages. Static pages means you create all of the pages you wish to upload to whatever hosting service you wish to use. After you create the pages on your PC; you then have to upload all of the pages by FTP (or some similar tool) to your hosting service. You may wish to create some pages as home pages to tell your story. The disadvantage of this technique is that it does not scale well. As the size of your family file gets bigger, you have more and more pages. Further, many of them will be small and, as a result, consume large amounts of hosting space. In the late 1990s, a program was created called IGM by Randy Winch. The idea behind IGM was that you uploaded your Gedcom file to your hosting service along with the IGM software and had IGM process your Gedcom and allow you to have IGM create your web pages dynamically as visitors requested them. Randy enhanced IGM for RootsWeb and that is what RootsWeb's WorldConnect service is using. In the early 2000s, two software products were created to take the IGM experience to a higher level. They have the limitation that the hosting service has to support php scripting MySQL databases that not all free or cable company hosting provides. They also expect the user to have, or have access to, some basic webmastering skills. Both require a quality hosting service and for you to acquire a domain name for your site. One is the OpenSource product phpGedView. This has the advantage that it is free. It is also slow. The other is the commercial product TNG. License cost is minor, and based on personal experience, the visitor experience is far superior and the customization tools provided by the vendor are effective and fairly easy to use. Further, it is the closest in data model to Legacy. Not identical, but most of your Legacy data can be imported into TNG and used as you would expect, including media and mapping. In many respects, all of the cloud based genealogy programs, including Ancestry Trees, are derivative of these ideas. To understand any of these dynamic solutions, think of them like you think of importing a Gedcom into Legacy. You import the Gedcom and Legacy/TNG/WorldConnect/etc. load your data from the Gedcom, as best as they can, into the programs database so that you can explore, and in some cases like TNG, edit your data using the program as a genealogy program. -- I have at times edited my TNG family file directly when a visitor pointed out a problem that needed immediate correction; however, normally, for me, corrections come when I update a new Gedcom as Legacy files are always my master file. Last year, I was part of a team of members of the Guild of One Name Studies who looked at these solutions. The Guild has decided to pilot a program where members can get hosting space with the Guild for a web site that after paying for it while living will be retained after the member retires as a means of providing that members' research is not lost and continues to be available. The selected tool for dynamic web sites is TNG. BTW, one of the issues with any web site is how it plays with the various search bots. The Chicago company SimplyHosting is considered to be so TNG friendly that they have TNG specific hosting packages that cost under $5 a month, and they will even install the TNG software for you. (I have no financial interest in any of these vendors.) I use their services after having issues with other services. -- if you want easy places to preserve your data for no cost, I would suggest WorldConnect or FamilySearch (their community trees are based on limited version of TNG). Both have limitations on what can be displayed and what, if any, media items you can attach to your tree. Questions? john. At 12:01 AM 4/14/2015, Cathy Pinner wrote: Hi Barton, Thought I'd get your email out of an irrelevant thread. I can't help with your hosting and compatibility issues. However, Legacy Web
RE: [LegacyUG] Testing Legacy Web Pages
Hi Barton, John and other interested people Happy to provide the link but I would like to make a couple of comments. I am currently not using the latest version of webtrees. One of the reasons for this is that I have made some minor modifications to the underlying PHP code and for me to upgrade requires a little work on my part. I host the site on my own web server which is located under my desk in my home and apart from some minor problems (bugs) there is no pressure for me to upgrade. The link to my site is: http://stuart.scss.dyndns.info/FamilyTree/ If you are seriously considering making your Legacy data available on-line, you should look at webtrees more closely. A number of the developers of webtrees offer hosting services (for a fee), but they all provide good support. The software is open source and therefore free. I would recommend that you have a look at the webtrees site here: http://www.webtrees.net/index.php/en/ If you visit this site you will find links to various other sites using webtrees. There are different modules available, some of which radically change the look of the site, but the underlying software and data remains the same. That is, some of the developers have created their own CSS files to present the same information but in a different format. Some final comments. As has already been explained in an earlier post. Legacy creates static web pages and for me, this means thousands of files would need to be uploaded to the web server each time I need to update the web site. Webtrees allows me to enter data directly on my web site and that data is immediately available for everyone to see. Comments regarding the chance of losing data when using TNG or webtrees is a valid comment. But both of these products provide safeguards. One safeguard is for you to implement a setting so that you, as administrator of the site, are the only person who can approve changes or additions to the data. There is no loss of value of having a search engine document your site. In fact tools are provided to enhance the search engine function. Hope this is of value to you. Stuart -Original Message- From: BARTON LEWIS [mailto:bartonle...@optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, 15 April 2015 12:23 AM To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Testing Legacy Web Pages Stuart, is it possible to see a tree generated by wbtrees - yours, perhaps? Thanks, Barton On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 06:16 AM, Stuart Gregory wrote: For Barton, John and others interested, The open source PHPGedview has not been actively supported for a number of years since the main developer and a lot of others moved to create webtrees. I would definitely not recommend using PHPGedview. Webtrees is open source and therefore free, unlike TNG (The Next Generation). I have been a user of Legacy and webtrees for many years and PHPGedview for several years prior to moving to webtrees. For many years my webtrees site has been my prime database and I occasionally export a Gedcom from my site and create a new Legacy .fdb file so as to create reports that aren't available using webtrees. Although I back up my MySQL database every night, creating a new Legacy .fdb is another form of backup. Stuart -Original Message- From: John Lisle [mailto:leg...@johnlisle.com] Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2015 1:39 PM To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Testing Legacy Web Pages Barton, Two basic types of family tree sites exist: static pages and dynamic pages. Static pages means you create all of the pages you wish to upload to whatever hosting service you wish to use. After you create the pages on your PC; you then have to upload all of the pages by FTP (or some similar tool) to your hosting service. You may wish to create some pages as home pages to tell your story. The disadvantage of this technique is that it does not scale well. As the size of your family file gets bigger, you have more and more pages. Further, many of them will be small and, as a result, consume large amounts of hosting space. In the late 1990s, a program was created called IGM by Randy Winch. The idea behind IGM was that you uploaded your Gedcom file to your hosting service along with the IGM software and had IGM process your Gedcom and allow you to have IGM create your web pages dynamically as visitors requested them. Randy enhanced IGM for RootsWeb and that is what RootsWeb's WorldConnect service is using. In the early 2000s, two software products were created to take the IGM experience to a higher level. They have the limitation that the hosting service has to support php scripting MySQL databases that not all free or cable company hosting provides. They also expect the user to have, or have access to, some basic webmastering skills. Both require a quality hosting service and for you to acquire a domain name for your site. One is the OpenSource product
Re: [LegacyUG] PhpGedView and Legacy
Jens, I also use PGV for all of my data entry the same as you and, yes, Legacy has problems importing Gedcoms produced by PGV and others. I have worked on several occasions with Brian at Support working through the problems. The main problem appeared to be that Legacy was not parsing the Gedcom properly. It was making false assumptions from the order of the tags in the Gedcom and sometimes missing the next 0 tag record. Thus causing the missing links. I thought that most of the major problems had been fixed as I haven't had any major troubles, like yours, with my latest build (V7.4.0.6). Legacy still incorrectly parses tags level 2 OBJE tags when there are multiple 2 level OBJE tags, it recognises only the first 2 OBJE and not any others. Legacy skips the rest. It also does not properly parse within 0 level OBJE objects. For example, Legacy creates an error for any level 1 NOTE tag. For example, this portion of a Gedcom produces an error for the 1 NOTE tag within Legacy: 0 @M37@ OBJE 1 FILE media/Weddings/James-Absalom.jpg 2 FORM jpg 3 TYPE photo 2 TITL James-Absalom 1 NOTE Marriage of Richard JAMES x. As a trial, I would edit an instance of one of your errors within your Gedcom so that the 1 HUSB and 1 WIFE and any 1 CHIL tags immediately follow the 0 FAM tag. See if that makes any difference. Email me privately if you would like further assistance. Or let Brian at support know your problems. Stuart Gregory On 9 March 2010 14:25, Jens Kettwig j...@kettwig.org wrote: Hi Ron, probably you're right. It may have something to do with PhpGedView, but I'd be interested in sharing this with someone with similar problems. For me it's a pity not to be able to use Legacy in combination with PGV anymore. For many reasons I won't give up PGV though, since collaboration is far too important for me, especially since the major parts of the family are divided between the USA and Germany. Thanks for your repsonse though! Cheers, Jens 2010/3/9 Ron Ferguson ronfergy@tiscali.co.uk Jens, Just out of interest, as I have never used PHPGedView I don't know the answer, how do you know that it is Legacy which has changed? To the best of my knowledge there has not been any significant changes to the way the Legacy import works for years. Since it seems to have been rather a long time since you used Legacy's GEDCOM import might it not be that PHPGedView has added customised GEDCOM tags or similar? Have you looked at the GEDCOM file in Notepad to see what is going on? I do know that for years, importing a GEDCOM from FTM has been a pain - just see this list over the past year. Ron Ferguson _ Create your Website with Legacy, see Tutorials at: http://www.fergys.co.uk Includes the family tree for Alan J Grimshaw http://www.fergys.co.uk/Grimshaw/ For The Fergusons of N.W. England http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fergys/ - Original Message - From: Jens Kettwig To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Sent: 08 March 2010 18:47 Subject: [LegacyUG] PhpGedView and Legacy Hi there, I used to work with Legacy a lot a few years back. Then I completely stopped using it due to my switch to PhpGedView, which I have installed on my website and which I enjoy using, because it makes collaboration so simple. Legacy on the other hand, is far more convenient at entering data, checking problems, merging files, etc, etc. Earlier I had no problem at all reimporting GEDCOM produced by PhpGedView. This week I purchased Legacy and tried to import my latest GEDCOM and it does not seem to work at all. OK, I get a long list of errors (which did not surprise me, since Gedcom versions tend to vary quite a bit). Most disturbingly, family connections are broken. e.g. my parents don't show up as my parents anymore, some generations back also my wife has ancestors missig. Mind you, the people are still in the file, but don't show up as being connected. I then imported the same Gedcom into PAF 5 and surprise, surprise: no problem at all! Everything just shows up as it should. I could also import the data from the generated PAF-file into Legacy without a problem. My question: is this a known bug in Legacy or is there anything that can be done about it? I still want to use my online-database, but intend to switch back to Legacy every once in a while to do the more difficult jobs on my computer and would like to export the changes back into PhpGedView. I will definitely not take the additional step with PAF all the time. Any suggestions from someone in this list? Thanks, Jens Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr
