Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
I am not asking for the source writer to be removed or any of that, but even the basic sourcing in Legacy is not intuative. I had to buy the training videos to understand how it all worked(now I do!). I have used Legacy for a long time now and before that FTM, PAF Brothers Keeper. Each of those had simpler sourcing methods IIRC. My opening post on this subject asked for a simple source option. An option with just two fields, one for master source name and the other for detail. clip board buttons photo option could be added. Many of my sourcing requirements would be fine with just that. Those who wish to fully exploit every part of 'correct' sourcing has the ability to do so and good luck to them if that is what they want to do. I don't believe that anyone way in the future would not have access to 'supergoogle' or some such facility to find that this strange reference 'Ancestry.com' was an archaic online genealogy resource that still has records archived at megadatabase online, for a fee of course! big grin Maybe next Christmas! Regards and good wishes to all. Norman Weston Expat Lanky, Spain 2010/1/19 John S. Adams oldbr...@hotmail.com: There is no official Legacy way of recording sources. Legacy provides tools which you may use as suggested by their (admittedly USA-centric) tutorials, or modify to suit your preferences, or ignore. Concerning relatives retracing your steps: what if the relative is a great grandchild who doesn't know what happened to your files and has no idea what www.ancestry.co.uk and www.freebmd.org.uk are? Just a couple of thoughts. John S. Adams Hermosa Beach, CA -- From: carogene carog...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 7:09 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing I also find the official Lecacy way of recording sources a bit over the top, so I have recorded mine under the Research Notes tab as follows: Birth: He was born before registration commenced in Scotland (1855), therefore his baptism details have been used to establish his date and place of birth. Baptism: LDS film number 1041957, items 1 and 2. Parish records of St Ninians, SCT. (I have a copy) Marriage 1: Not found in England or Scotland. Marriage 2: www.freebmd.org.uk 1853 December quarter, registered at Islington. 1b/318 (I have a copy of certificate) Marriage 3: www.freebmd.org.uk 1867 September quarter, registered at Kensington. 1a/339 (I have a copy of certificate) Death: not found. Census: www.ancestry.co.uk Birth and Marriage details of his children: www.freebmd.org.uk Baptisms of his children: www.ancestry.co.uk, the London Parish Records Collection. Asylum Records and London Directory entries: Personal visit to London Metropolitan Archives 2008. I include this in any reports that I am sending to relatives, so that they can both see that I have done my homework, and retrace my steps if they want to. It's also a good way for me to check what is missing. Cheers Carolyn Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp -- Regards Norman Weston Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
Norman: No, we're not all professionals or authors, and sourcing doesn't have to be overly complicated. Fortunately Legacy gives us the option to create pretty simple sources in the old basic format. Those are perfectly adequate for many users and they're quick and easy to do. The new templates for citing data from published books, online census images and databases, etc., are also very easy to use. At the same time there's a new format developing (based on Mills' work) that tries to address some of the more obscure items and artifacts that we sometimes want to cite as sources (such as great-granny's old wedding quilt) and those tend to get more complicated, especially if the quilt is owned by your cousin Jane. Even then, the basic format can be adequate. What we're going through now with complicated sourcing reminds me of learning to do the bibliographies that were required with term papers in school. That was a headache until we got the hang of it. I suspect that genealogical source formats are still in the developmental stages and will settle down to a rather more simple standard and, at the same time, we'll learn to be more comfortable with the formats. But isn't it convenient to know, for example, that italics indicate published books and that data in parentheses describes the publication details? Some standard rules like those are very handy. Kirsten -Original Message- From: Norman Weston [mailto:normd...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 10:38 AM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing Is everyone here a professional genealogist or want to write a book or something? I suspect the vast majority of Legacy users are rather like me. They want to cite their sources adequately but not necessarilly with the complexity that seems to keep being touted here! What are the main reasons for sources? To know where the information came from so that it can be looked at again or quoted to someone else and to know the level of surety of the source. That's all I need. Birth certificate held in filing cabinet, 99% surety. Birthdate from Ancestry with reference to someone's tree -marginal evidence. Why does it have to be so flippin complicated Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
I agree with Lionel. Ruth A. (Sconza Testa) Nerud baber...@worldnet.att.net - Original Message - From: Lionel Carter lionelcar...@freezone.co.uk ToSubject: Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing I'm inclined to agree. The degree of detail should be based on one's objectives, not a preordained set of procedures. The 'efficiency' of finding information in a database is a trade off between time spent inputting info and time spent retrieving. Why spend hours putting in detail so that you can trace it in seconds when you are likely to only want to trace less than 0.1% of it? E.G. rather than spend 500 hours detailing everything 'just in case' it is more 'efficient' to spend an hour tracing, if needed the one item sought. For family history as long as you know which database contains the info then leave it to the search and organisation of that database to find it again. To do otherwise is reinventing the wheel. Ancestry for example will always return the same specifics for a particular search, all you need to know is to look in Ancestry. Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
But Ron, don't your book and periodical publishers have style manuals to be followed? And don't British legal, medical, and scientific journals each have their own formal citation styles? So I would argue (very respectfully, of course) that you *do* have specified citation styles but they're just not always easily adapted to genealogy. All that's happening here is that a formal citation style is developing for genealogy as well. Isn't the difference in whether an author wants to document on a casual level or on a professional level rather than in where you live? Kirsten -Original Message- From: Ron Ferguson [mailto:ronfergy@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing Lionel and Norman, Basically, I agree with both of you but with some caveats. Sources are not only for oneself but for others who may have access to your data via a report, webpage etc.. In such circumstances In a filing cabinet in my garage would not be very helpful, but a basic reference to a certificate, GRO, Southport, Lancashire, England with a date and reference number would. I agree that all the other bells and whistles are not necessary unless one is intending to obtain certification of some sorts. The main point is that a stanger to one's data should be able to trace the data reasonably easily. BTW. I am not too happy with your assumption the Ancestry for example will remain unchanged for ever and for aye. Fortunately, we (England) do not have specified standards, and I guess most are like me where the criteria, is that the sourcing be clear, accurate and reproducable by anyone. I tend to use a mixture of Basic and SW sourcing, but rarely (probably never) fill in all the fields. Ron Ferguson _ Create your Website with Legacy, see Tutorials at: http://www.fergys.co.uk Includes the family tree for Alan J Grimshaw http://www.fergys.co.uk/Grimshaw/ For The Fergusons of N.W. England http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fergys/ Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/ronfergy Lionel Carter wrote: I'm inclined to agree. The degree of detail should be based on one's objectives, not a preordained set of procedures. The 'efficiency' of finding information in a database is a trade off between time spent inputting info and time spent retrieving. Why spend hours putting in detail so that you can trace it in seconds when you are likely to only want to trace less than 0.1% of it? E.G. rather than spend 500 hours detailing everything 'just in case' it is more 'efficient' to spend an hour tracing, if needed the one item sought. For family history as long as you know which database contains the info then leave it to the search and organisation of that database to find it again. To do otherwise is reinventing the wheel. Ancestry for example will always return the same specifics for a particular search, all you need to know is to look in Ancestry. Norman Weston wrote: Is everyone here a professional genealogist or want to write a book or something? I suspect the vast majority of Legacy users are rather like me. They want to cite their sources adequately but not necessarilly with the complexity that seems to keep being touted here! What are the main reasons for sources? To know where the information came from so that it can be looked at again or quoted to someone else and to know the level of surety of the source. That's all I need. Birth certificate held in filing cabinet, 99% surety. Birthdate from Ancestry with reference to someone's tree -marginal evidence. Why does it have to be so flippin complicated Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
Kirsten, Firstly, may I dispose of books (not literally, of course), should I ever write a book which requires genealogy sourcing then I will decide on the format of the sources. Sometimes the format may be decided by the publisher, but this is probably unusual. Certainly scientific periodicals, which are the ones I have experience of, do tend to specify the format for sources, but this is dependent of the periodical and varies from one to another. I would not call this a set standard, which I regard as being one which is unversal. It is my belief that it is this attempt to devise universally applicable standards which leads to confusion, excessive sourcing and as Jenny would say the over egging of the cake. Good heavens, would the average reader know what all the commas, abbreviations, italics etc. which I see in many Sources actually mean, I doubt it - and what do they add to the Source? I do not agree that the difference lies between what is casual and what is professional, in my view the difference is between recording only that which is necessary, and giving a load of detail which most readers will never look at. If the Source enables one to find the record, then that is all that is required. Sorry, but respecfully I disagree. Ron Ferguson _ Create your Website with Legacy, see Tutorials at: http://www.fergys.co.uk Includes the family tree for Alan J Grimshaw http://www.fergys.co.uk/Grimshaw/ For The Fergusons of N.W. England http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fergys/ Kirsten Bowman wrote: But Ron, don't your book and periodical publishers have style manuals to be followed? And don't British legal, medical, and scientific journals each have their own formal citation styles? So I would argue (very respectfully, of course) that you *do* have specified citation styles but they're just not always easily adapted to genealogy. All that's happening here is that a formal citation style is developing for genealogy as well. Isn't the difference in whether an author wants to document on a casual level or on a professional level rather than in where you live? Kirsten -Original Message- From: Ron Ferguson [mailto:ronfergy@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:27 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing Lionel and Norman, Basically, I agree with both of you but with some caveats. Sources are not only for oneself but for others who may have access to your data via a report, webpage etc.. In such circumstances In a filing cabinet in my garage would not be very helpful, but a basic reference to a certificate, GRO, Southport, Lancashire, England with a date and reference number would. I agree that all the other bells and whistles are not necessary unless one is intending to obtain certification of some sorts. The main point is that a stanger to one's data should be able to trace the data reasonably easily. BTW. I am not too happy with your assumption the Ancestry for example will remain unchanged for ever and for aye. Fortunately, we (England) do not have specified standards, and I guess most are like me where the criteria, is that the sourcing be clear, accurate and reproducable by anyone. I tend to use a mixture of Basic and SW sourcing, but rarely (probably never) fill in all the fields. Ron Ferguson _ Create your Website with Legacy, see Tutorials at: http://www.fergys.co.uk Includes the family tree for Alan J Grimshaw http://www.fergys.co.uk/Grimshaw/ For The Fergusons of N.W. England http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fergys/ Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/ronfergy Lionel Carter wrote: I'm inclined to agree. The degree of detail should be based on one's objectives, not a preordained set of procedures. The 'efficiency' of finding information in a database is a trade off between time spent inputting info and time spent retrieving. Why spend hours putting in detail so that you can trace it in seconds when you are likely to only want to trace less than 0.1% of it? E.G. rather than spend 500 hours detailing everything 'just in case' it is more 'efficient' to spend an hour tracing, if needed the one item sought. For family history as long as you know which database contains the info then leave it to the search and organisation of that database to find it again. To do otherwise is reinventing the wheel. Ancestry for example will always return the same specifics for a particular search, all you need to know is to look in Ancestry. Norman Weston wrote: Is everyone here a professional genealogist or want to write a book or something? I suspect the vast majority of Legacy users are rather like me. They want to cite their sources adequately but not necessarilly
Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
I also find the official Lecacy way of recording sources a bit over the top, so I have recorded mine under the Research Notes tab as follows: Birth: He was born before registration commenced in Scotland (1855), therefore his baptism details have been used to establish his date and place of birth. Baptism: LDS film number 1041957, items 1 and 2. Parish records of St Ninians, SCT. (I have a copy) Marriage 1: Not found in England or Scotland. Marriage 2: www.freebmd.org.uk 1853 December quarter, registered at Islington. 1b/318 (I have a copy of certificate) Marriage 3: www.freebmd.org.uk 1867 September quarter, registered at Kensington. 1a/339 (I have a copy of certificate) Death: not found. Census: www.ancestry.co.uk Birth and Marriage details of his children: www.freebmd.org.uk Baptisms of his children: www.ancestry.co.uk, the London Parish Records Collection. Asylum Records and London Directory entries: Personal visit to London Metropolitan Archives 2008. I include this in any reports that I am sending to relatives, so that they can both see that I have done my homework, and retrace my steps if they want to. It's also a good way for me to check what is missing. Cheers Carolyn Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
Try BASIC SOURCING -- I still do not use the new type myself. Keith -- Find-A-Grave County Keeper for Schuylkill County, PA Keith A. McKain McCain-McKane-O'Kane DNA Group 1 - # Mc17936 Website: http://home.comcast.net/~geosci64 Email: geosc...@comcast.net On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Norman Weston normd...@gmail.com wrote: My biggest wish for forthcoming options in future versions of Legacy is a simple source option. I want to keep the complexity that is already there but to add an option for a quick, simple and easy source citation. For example, if I find something that I want to put in my data, perhaps on Ancestry, I want to be able to click an icon marked 'Simple Source' or something, and get a single window come up with only two fields in it. One field to put in the Master Source name and the second text field where I could copy or type the detail. Not everyone wants to write a book and in my opinion the primary reason for sources is to be able to see where the information came from and hence it's veracity. I spend far too much time wading through the complex soucing procedure in Legacy. I sometimes want to source with that complexity but more often not! -- Regards Norman Weston Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
Norman Weston wrote My biggest wish for forthcoming options in future versions of Legacy is a simple source option. I want to keep the complexity that is already there but to add an option for a quick, simple and easy source citation. For example, if I find something that I want to put in my data, perhaps on Ancestry, I want to be able to click an icon marked 'Simple Source' or something, and get a single window come up with only two fields in it. One field to put in the Master Source name and the second text field where I could copy or type the detail. Not everyone wants to write a book and in my opinion the primary reason for sources is to be able to see where the information came from and hence it's veracity. I spend far too much time wading through the complex soucing procedure in Legacy. I sometimes want to source with that complexity but more often not! You already have that option! Just use Basic Source when you want the simple option and SourceWriter when you are happy to go the more complex route. -- Jenny M Benson Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Simple Sourcing
Thank you Keith and Jenny, I know about basic sourcing in Legacy. I am a long time user and have the training CD's which I needed to study, even to use the basic sourcing! It is not what I asked for, I want a SINGLE window with just TWO fields. I know it could be done and would work very well for a simple source. Start typing in the name of the Master source and it should come up with a drop down list which matches what you type. Select from the list, if it does not exist, it will automatically add a new Master source. Paste or type in your detail and your done! How simple is that! I can live in hope grin Regards Norman Weston 2010/1/9 GeoSci geosc...@gmail.com: Try BASIC SOURCING -- I still do not use the new type myself. 2010/1/9 Jenny M Benson ge...@cedarbank.me.uk: You already have that option! Just use Basic Source when you want the simple option and SourceWriter when you are happy to go the more complex route. Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergr...@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
