RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Alex MacPhee]

Michelle,
>if they make use of modern fertility options, there is going to be a 
>continuation of one or even both of those lines - though connected to each 
>other only legally.
This time last year, I had not expected to need to record such a family 
relationship. I had an entry for a cousin, herself childless, and who was one 
of the first batch of relatives to be entered into my genealogy database.
By the most unexpected fluke, I discovered that she was an adopted child, not 
the natural child of her parents.  It turns out that late in life she had put 
her adoption papers on a dedicated internet web site where these things can be 
sold. It was my own sister who found the web site with adoption papers listed, 
and sent it to me as the family historian. Double-take hardly describes my 
reaction. I now have it confirmed, and Legacy is able to cope with adoptions. I 
discovered, too, that her sister is also adopted, but the sister is also 
otherwise related to the adoptive parents. So, adoptions with family 
connexions, adoptions with none ; and again just recently, I now find I have to 
record same sex relationships where at least one of the pair already has 
natural children by a previous relationship, and adoptive by a new.
I can imagine that this is going to be a technically tricky thing to implement 
in any genealogy database system. At present, it's getting quite 
string-and-sealing-wax to record some of the information I've uncovered.


Alex




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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Michelle F]

Hi All,

A first-time poster to the list, and this caught my attention.
It seems to me there is genealogy in same-sex couples, at least up to the two 
participants. And if they make use of modern fertility options, there is going 
to be a continuation of one or even both of those lines - though connected to 
each other only legally. Still, I wouldn't want to lose those connections in my 
recording for future research leads.

Cheers,
Michelle


"Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?"



>
> From: Brian L. Lightfoot 
>To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 2:10 PM
>Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages
>
>
>There is no genealogy in same-sex marriages thus there are no same-sex 
>marriages in genealogy.
>
>If you want something for recording people, their lives and their 
>relationships, it's called a diary.
>
>
>Brian in CA
>
>
>
>
>


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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Alex MacPhee]

 >From the studies that I have seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs 
 >that I have known, same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".
I'm not sure I understand this point. I want Legacy to record relationships as 
they are. Since heterosexual marriages are not lifelong either, I can't see why 
this should be an issue for same-sex relationships. I require Legacy, or any 
similar application program, to record genealogical data and relationships 
accurately, without value judgements.


Alex

From: mai_l...@aapt.net.au
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 13:17:26 +1000

And you finish with God Bless !!! God Blesses us all. From: Ellen 
[mailto:kramer...@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, 26 December 2013 12:43 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages I do not record 
relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do not record all know "best 
friends" or "pets" or anything else except for Church recognized marriages.  If 
you want that, that is your option.  From the studies that I have seen and from 
all of the rare same-sex pairs that I have known, same-sex relationships 
typically are not "life-long".  Not everyone wants Legacy to make this 
possible, but it sounds like they might have with the below info.  I support 
them in not adding this as a feature.  Legacy hears from the few who want it 
far more often than those of us who are grateful for it not being there. God 
bless,Ellen


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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Eliz Hanebury]

Brian, how then do you treat adoptions?

Eliz
Not Today and Not without a Fight
(Anon)

For all that has been, thanks.
For all that will be, yes.
(Dag Hammarskjold)


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Brian L. Lightfoot <
br...@the-lightfoots.com> wrote:

> There is no genealogy in same-sex marriages thus there are no same-sex
> marriages in genealogy.
>
> If you want something for recording people, their lives and their
> relationships, it's called a diary.
>
>
> Brian in CA
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: singhals [mailto:singh...@erols.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 10:16 AM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages
>
> Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either, though.
>
> My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships doesn't mean
> someone else won't need it, and I can always not-use it if it's there.
>
> If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice option" vote.
>
> Cheryl
>
> Ellen wrote:
> > I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry. I also do
> > not record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except
> > for Church recognized marriages. If you want that, that is your
> > option. From the studies that I have seen and from all of the rare
> > same-sex pairs that I have known, same-sex relationships typically are
> > not "life-long".
> > Not everyone wants Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like
> > they might have with the below info. I support them in not adding this
> > as a feature. Legacy hears from the few who want it far more often
> > than those of us who are grateful for it not being there.
> >
> > God bless,
> > Ellen
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
> >> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program
> >> loads as well.
> >>
> >> Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the
> >> legality of gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without
> >> gay marriage being legal, we should respect and record the life-long
> >> partnerships that two people had - we do it for men and women who
> >> don't marry, we should be able to do it for same-sex relationships as
> >> well
> >>
> >> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents
> >> forward that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in
> >> recording people, their lives and their relationships.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support
> >> mailto:she...@legacyfamilytree.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're
> >> comfortable with using Access. It's in the KB on our
> >> website
> >>
> >> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-
> >> Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Sherry
> >> Technical Support
> >> Legacy Family Tree
>
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
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> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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>
>
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Kathy Meyer]

I've been following this thread with some interest, although I have none of
those relationships in my personal records.  I think Bill states an obvious
and simple solution to this.  I've been pondering the ramifications of such
a change in the database from a totally non-programming knowledge basis.
 Even charting where the color coding can be based on sex. I feel that the
simple solutions without restructuring everything in the programs, would be
the best for everyone. Every time you make a major change, something else
suffers as we've seen during the recent update of Legacy Family Tree.  Any
time we can make a simple work around, it will be best.  I would be
interested in hearing other 'work arounds'

We need to stop this thread though because it is going to become
'political' pretty soon. And this is not just a Legacy Family Tree issue so
no pointing fingers at them either.  We all share an interest in tracing
our family history and discovering our ancestry; this is no place for
current event discussions.

I'm quite happy to have the holidays over, and be happily unemployed for a
little while, so I can get back into MY family history work and finally
learn the ins and outs of our new Legacy 8 upgrade!  I will be posting
frequently I'm sure so thank you in advance to all of you who are so kind
to give advise.

Kathy


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:15 PM, William Boswell wrote:

> I think the easiest solution is to just add the same-sex partner as either
> a wife or husband whether their sex matches that position or not.  The
> marriage options allow adding whatever you want under "Master Marriage
> Status List" and you can also put a note that both individuals are either
> male or female.
>
> Bill Boswell
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sherry/Support [mailto:she...@legacyfamilytree.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 1:22 PM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages
>
> We are "keeping count" somewhat, but as Leonard wrote quoting Ken, it's a
> major ripping apart of the basic design of Legacy and would be very time
> consuming for the programmers. Not only would they have to restructure
> Legacy, they would also have to re-code all the other options based on the
> restructuring - not to mention the trickle-down for all the add-on programs.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Sherry
> Technical Support
> Legacy Family Tree
>
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
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> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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>
>
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Sherry/Support]

THIS THREAD MUST BE STOPPED NOW!

Please, no more posts about same-sex marriages. I see that it's going
to start getting "hotter"

It doesn't matter what you think about the relationships and we're
getting *away* from Legacy topics now.

PLEASE STOP.

Thank you.


Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Brian L. Lightfoot
 wrote:
> There is no genealogy in same-sex marriages thus there are no same-sex 
> marriages in genealogy.
>
> If you want something for recording people, their lives and their 
> relationships, it's called a diary.
>
>
> Brian in CA
>



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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[C.G. Ouimet]

One more thing to keep in mind ... If Legacy were to go the Family History 
route (vs the genealogy route), is the GEDCOM Standard up to the task of being 
the vehicle to transfer that data to other applications?


C.G. Ouimet
Kingston ON


-Original Message-
From: C.G. Ouimet [mailto:c.g.oui...@outlook.com]
Sent: December 26, 2013 02:44 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

Genealogy and Family History are not always the same ...


C.G. Ouimet
Kingston ON


-Original Message-
From: Brian L. Lightfoot [mailto:br...@the-lightfoots.com]
Sent: December 26, 2013 02:11 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

There is no genealogy in same-sex marriages thus there are no same-sex 
marriages in genealogy.

If you want something for recording people, their lives and their 
relationships, it's called a diary.


Brian in CA



-Original Message-
From: singhals [mailto:singh...@erols.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 10:16 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either, though.

My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships doesn't mean someone 
else won't need it, and I can always not-use it if it's there.

If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice option" vote.

Cheryl

Ellen wrote:
> I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry. I also do
> not record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except
> for Church recognized marriages. If you want that, that is your
> option. From the studies that I have seen and from all of the rare
> same-sex pairs that I have known, same-sex relationships typically are
> not "life-long".
> Not everyone wants Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like
> they might have with the below info. I support them in not adding this
> as a feature. Legacy hears from the few who want it far more often
> than those of us who are grateful for it not being there.
>
> God bless,
> Ellen
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:
>
>> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
>> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program
>> loads as well.
>>
>> Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the
>> legality of gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without
>> gay marriage being legal, we should respect and record the life-long
>> partnerships that two people had - we do it for men and women who
>> don't marry, we should be able to do it for same-sex relationships as
>> well
>>
>> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents
>> forward that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in
>> recording people, their lives and their relationships.
>>
>>
>> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support
>> mailto:she...@legacyfamilytree.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're
>> comfortable with using Access. It's in the KB on our
>> website
>>
>> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-
>> Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sherry
>> Technical Support
>> Legacy Family Tree





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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[C.G. Ouimet]

Genealogy and Family History are not always the same ...


C.G. Ouimet
Kingston ON


-Original Message-
From: Brian L. Lightfoot [mailto:br...@the-lightfoots.com]
Sent: December 26, 2013 02:11 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

There is no genealogy in same-sex marriages thus there are no same-sex 
marriages in genealogy.

If you want something for recording people, their lives and their 
relationships, it's called a diary.


Brian in CA



-Original Message-
From: singhals [mailto:singh...@erols.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 10:16 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either, though.

My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships doesn't mean someone 
else won't need it, and I can always not-use it if it's there.

If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice option" vote.

Cheryl

Ellen wrote:
> I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry. I also do
> not record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except
> for Church recognized marriages. If you want that, that is your
> option. From the studies that I have seen and from all of the rare
> same-sex pairs that I have known, same-sex relationships typically are
> not "life-long".
> Not everyone wants Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like
> they might have with the below info. I support them in not adding this
> as a feature. Legacy hears from the few who want it far more often
> than those of us who are grateful for it not being there.
>
> God bless,
> Ellen
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:
>
>> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
>> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program
>> loads as well.
>>
>> Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the
>> legality of gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without
>> gay marriage being legal, we should respect and record the life-long
>> partnerships that two people had - we do it for men and women who
>> don't marry, we should be able to do it for same-sex relationships as
>> well
>>
>> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents
>> forward that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in
>> recording people, their lives and their relationships.
>>
>>
>> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support
>> mailto:she...@legacyfamilytree.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're
>> comfortable with using Access. It's in the KB on our
>> website
>>
>> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-
>> Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sherry
>> Technical Support
>> Legacy Family Tree





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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Brian L. Lightfoot]

There is no genealogy in same-sex marriages thus there are no same-sex 
marriages in genealogy.

If you want something for recording people, their lives and their 
relationships, it's called a diary.


Brian in CA



-Original Message-
From: singhals [mailto:singh...@erols.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 10:16 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either, though.

My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships doesn't mean someone 
else won't need it, and I can always not-use it if it's there.

If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice option" vote.

Cheryl

Ellen wrote:
> I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry. I also do
> not record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except
> for Church recognized marriages. If you want that, that is your
> option. From the studies that I have seen and from all of the rare
> same-sex pairs that I have known, same-sex relationships typically are
> not "life-long".
> Not everyone wants Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like
> they might have with the below info. I support them in not adding this
> as a feature. Legacy hears from the few who want it far more often
> than those of us who are grateful for it not being there.
>
> God bless,
> Ellen
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:
>
>> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
>> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program
>> loads as well.
>>
>> Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the
>> legality of gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without
>> gay marriage being legal, we should respect and record the life-long
>> partnerships that two people had - we do it for men and women who
>> don't marry, we should be able to do it for same-sex relationships as
>> well
>>
>> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents
>> forward that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in
>> recording people, their lives and their relationships.
>>
>>
>> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support
>> mailto:she...@legacyfamilytree.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're
>> comfortable with using Access. It's in the KB on our
>> website
>>
>> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-
>> Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sherry
>> Technical Support
>> Legacy Family Tree





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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[C.G. Ouimet]

That is one upgrade I won’t be subscribing to very quickly – just imagine all 
the bugs and data integrity issues …



C.G. Ouimet

Kingston ON



From: Orinda Spence [mailto:crazypie...@gmail.com]
Sent: December 26, 2013 02:10 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages



I would vote for the same sex, relationship provision.   Just to include 
everyone in one's family tree.



On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:01 PM, grayscot2  wrote:


I'd like to up the count for including provisions for same sex 
marriage, "significant others", poly-amorous, etc.

But also, switching to a different underlying database program.  
Anything so fragile as to need constant check/repairs is far too fragile.  I've 
used Dbase3, Visual Fox Pro and a number of free-form databases that never 
required this.  Zoot for instance is a free-form database PIM that is arguably 
just as complex or moreso than Legacy, but I've never had to check or repair 
its many separate smart databases, and in 20 years, through disk failures, 
crashes, and power failures/surges that burnt out everything else, cloud sync 
failures, have never lost an item.

So if you have to re-do the program anyway--and with Utah going 
same-sex marriage, you will surely have to--get a stabler database/file system.

Pres
--
Prescott Smith   graysc...@gmail.com

From: Sherry/Support [she...@legacyfamilytree.com]
Sent: Thursday, 26 December, 2013 12:22 PM
To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

We are "keeping count" somewhat, but as Leonard wrote quoting Ken,
it's a major ripping apart of the basic design of Legacy and would be
very time consuming for the programmers. Not only would they have to
restructure Legacy, they would also have to re-code all the other
options based on the restructuring - not to mention the trickle-down
for all the add-on programs.

Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree

On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 10:16 AM, singhals  wrote:
> Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either,
> though.
>
> My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships
> doesn't mean someone else won't need it, and I can always
> not-use it if it's there.
>
> If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice
> option" vote.
>
> Cheryl

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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[William Boswell]

I think the easiest solution is to just add the same-sex partner as either a 
wife or husband whether their sex matches that position or not.  The marriage 
options allow adding whatever you want under "Master Marriage Status List" and 
you can also put a note that both individuals are either male or female.

Bill Boswell

-Original Message-
From: Sherry/Support [mailto:she...@legacyfamilytree.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 1:22 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

We are "keeping count" somewhat, but as Leonard wrote quoting Ken, it's a major 
ripping apart of the basic design of Legacy and would be very time consuming 
for the programmers. Not only would they have to restructure Legacy, they would 
also have to re-code all the other options based on the restructuring - not to 
mention the trickle-down for all the add-on programs.


Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree





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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Orinda Spence]

I would vote for the same sex, relationship provision.   Just to include
everyone in one's family tree.


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:01 PM, grayscot2  wrote:

>
> I'd like to up the count for including provisions for same sex
> marriage, "significant others", poly-amorous, etc.
>
> But also, switching to a different underlying database program.
>  Anything so fragile as to need constant check/repairs is far too fragile.
>  I've used Dbase3, Visual Fox Pro and a number of free-form databases that
> never required this.  Zoot for instance is a free-form database PIM that is
> arguably just as complex or moreso than Legacy, but I've never had to check
> or repair its many separate smart databases, and in 20 years, through disk
> failures, crashes, and power failures/surges that burnt out everything
> else, cloud sync failures, have never lost an item.
>
> So if you have to re-do the program anyway--and with Utah going
> same-sex marriage, you will surely have to--get a stabler database/file
> system.
>
> Pres
> --
> Prescott Smith   graysc...@gmail.com
>
> 
> From: Sherry/Support [she...@legacyfamilytree.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 26 December, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages
>
> We are "keeping count" somewhat, but as Leonard wrote quoting Ken,
> it's a major ripping apart of the basic design of Legacy and would be
> very time consuming for the programmers. Not only would they have to
> restructure Legacy, they would also have to re-code all the other
> options based on the restructuring - not to mention the trickle-down
> for all the add-on programs.
>
> Sincerely,
> Sherry
> Technical Support
> Legacy Family Tree
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 10:16 AM, singhals  wrote:
> > Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either,
> > though.
> >
> > My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships
> > doesn't mean someone else won't need it, and I can always
> > not-use it if it's there.
> >
> > If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice
> > option" vote.
> >
> > Cheryl
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
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> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
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>
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>
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>
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[grayscot2]

I'd like to up the count for including provisions for same sex 
marriage, "significant others", poly-amorous, etc.

But also, switching to a different underlying database program.  
Anything so fragile as to need constant check/repairs is far too fragile.  I've 
used Dbase3, Visual Fox Pro and a number of free-form databases that never 
required this.  Zoot for instance is a free-form database PIM that is arguably 
just as complex or moreso than Legacy, but I've never had to check or repair 
its many separate smart databases, and in 20 years, through disk failures, 
crashes, and power failures/surges that burnt out everything else, cloud sync 
failures, have never lost an item.

So if you have to re-do the program anyway--and with Utah going 
same-sex marriage, you will surely have to--get a stabler database/file system.

Pres
--
Prescott Smith   graysc...@gmail.com

From: Sherry/Support [she...@legacyfamilytree.com]
Sent: Thursday, 26 December, 2013 12:22 PM
To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

We are "keeping count" somewhat, but as Leonard wrote quoting Ken,
it's a major ripping apart of the basic design of Legacy and would be
very time consuming for the programmers. Not only would they have to
restructure Legacy, they would also have to re-code all the other
options based on the restructuring - not to mention the trickle-down
for all the add-on programs.

Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree

On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 10:16 AM, singhals  wrote:
> Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either,
> though.
>
> My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships
> doesn't mean someone else won't need it, and I can always
> not-use it if it's there.
>
> If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice
> option" vote.
>
> Cheryl

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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Sherry/Support]

We are "keeping count" somewhat, but as Leonard wrote quoting Ken,
it's a major ripping apart of the basic design of Legacy and would be
very time consuming for the programmers. Not only would they have to
restructure Legacy, they would also have to re-code all the other
options based on the restructuring - not to mention the trickle-down
for all the add-on programs.


Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree


On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 10:16 AM, singhals  wrote:
> Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either,
> though.
>
> My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships
> doesn't mean someone else won't need it, and I can always
> not-use it if it's there.
>
> If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice
> option" vote.
>
> Cheryl



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[singhals]

Most two-sex marriages these days aren't "life-long" either,
though.

My not needing the ability to add same-sex relationships
doesn't mean someone else won't need it, and I can always
not-use it if it's there.

If someone's keeping count, here's a "it might be a nice
option" vote.

Cheryl

Ellen wrote:
> I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry. I
> also do not record all know "best friends" or "pets" or
> anything else except for Church recognized marriages. If you
> want that, that is your option. From the studies that I have
> seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs that I have
> known, same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".
> Not everyone wants Legacy to make this possible, but it
> sounds like they might have with the below info. I support
> them in not adding this as a feature. Legacy hears from the
> few who want it far more often than those of us who are
> grateful for it not being there.
>
> God bless,
> Ellen
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:
>
>> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
>> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear
>> between program loads as well.
>>
>> Need something more permanent in light of today's society
>> and the legality of gay marriage in many countries today -
>> heck even without gay marriage being legal, we should
>> respect and record the life-long partnerships that two
>> people had - we do it for men and women who don't marry,
>> we should be able to do it for same-sex relationships as well
>>
>> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my
>> two cents forward that this feature is something that is
>> needed for accuracy in recording people, their lives and
>> their relationships.
>>
>>
>> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're
>> comfortable with using Access. It's in the KB on our
>> website
>> 
>> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sherry
>> Technical Support
>> Legacy Family Tree




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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Leonard Johnson]

Let me start by quoting from Legacy 8 Help File where it is stated: ” Legacy
is a family history computer program that makes it extremely easy to store
your genealogical information.”  I have same sex relationships in my family.
I wish to record all of their relationships whether married or not or in
same sex relationships.  Legacy 8 does not provide the means whereby I can
record those relationships at this time.  This is, I think, a large deficiency
in the software, which is an excellent software in all other respects.  I
have family in the United States as well as Sweden.  I am therefore able to
produce reports on my family in both English and Swedish, as far as I know,
it is the only genealogical software that makes this possible.  Ken
McGinnis, Millennia’s Vice President and one of its programmers wrote this
on October 18, 2006:

“It wasn't a moral issue. It was simply over looked in the early stages of
Legacy design. Currently there are all kinds of queries when collecting
spouses for a person. We look at the main person we want and get his
gender. That then tells us how to do the queries. If we had to look on
both sides of the marriage record (we have a Husband ID and a Wife ID
as we call them) things would be a lot more complicated and would slow
things
down quite a bit. This would hit all kinds of areas in Legacy and with
our current database design wouldn't be very efficient. We know this
issue has been important for many and will continue to grow in importance.
To implement it correctly would take quite a bit of work and would not
only affect Legacy but all of the current add-on programs. I guess
because of the complexity of a change at this point we have held off. At
some point the presure of things will force us to dive in and make the
changes required.

Thanks

Ken McGinnis
Millennia Corporation
kenmcgin...@legacyfamilytree.com

We changing the world of genealogy!”

I know that there is a work around that isn’t perfect, but it is the only
way to get same sex relationships recorded in Legacy 8 at present.  Information
on this work around is available at:
*http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
*

As I recall, the last time this subject was up for discussion someone from
Millennia stopped the thread, which, I think was a mistake.  We should be
able to discuss this deficiency in an open way, without the discussion
being stopped by Millennia.

I am 75 years young and a retired Minister of the Gospel and I have no
desire to impose my moral values on anyone else.  I simply want to be able
to enter the same sex relationships that exist in my family.  I can say, as
did Ellen, God bless, however her conclusion that she is thankful for
Legacy not giving us, who wish to record these relationships, the ability
to do so is something with which I can not agree.  On March 31, 2008 I
started a discussion on this subject on the Translation and Test lists.  It
is obvious that Millennia has not felt “the pressure of things” so that
they will feel forced “to dive in and make the changes required”.  Just my
2 cents worth.


--
Leonard Johnson
Swedish Translation Team
legacy8.swed...@gmail.com
We are helping change the world of genealogy !



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Bryan Pratt]

And at the risk of being totally off-topic - and a gay man to wit, what a 
wonderful Christian response, Ellen, to recording ALL your family history. So 
who will you omit next?

And re-iterating June’s response: God bless!

I think someone in history, echoing his founder,  said something about 
acknowledging faith, hope and charity - and the greatest……?


Bryan

Christchurch

New Zealand






Sent from Windows Mail





From: Ellen
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎42‎ ‎PM
To: Legacy




I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do not 
record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except for Church 
recognized marriages.  If you want that, that is your option.  From the studies 
that I have seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs that I have known, 
same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".  Not everyone wants 
Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like they might have with the below 
info.  I support them in not adding this as a feature.  Legacy hears from the 
few who want it far more often than those of us who are grateful for it not 
being there.



God bless,

Ellen




On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:




Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".


It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program loads as 
well.



Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the legality of 
gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without gay marriage being 
legal, we should respect and record the life-long partnerships that two people 
had - we do it for men and women who don't marry, we should be able to do it 
for same-sex relationships as well



Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents forward that 
this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in recording people, 
their lives and their relationships.





On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support  wrote:



No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're comfortable with using 
Access.  It's in the KB on our website  
http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html





Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree






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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[June Chan]

And you finish with God Bless !!! God Blesses us all.



From: Ellen [mailto:kramer...@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, 26 December 2013 12:43 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages



I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do not 
record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except for Church 
recognized marriages.  If you want that, that is your option.  From the studies 
that I have seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs that I have known, 
same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".  Not everyone wants 
Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like they might have with the below 
info.  I support them in not adding this as a feature.  Legacy hears from the 
few who want it far more often than those of us who are grateful for it not 
being there.



God bless,

Ellen






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RE: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Charles Apple]

It is my understanding that the purpose of genealogy is to reconstruct the 
lives of our ancestors as best as possible, and not how we would have preferred 
it to have been. To that end, Legacy does an excellent job. Just my two cents 
worth.



Charles



From: Kathy Thompson [mailto:kmthoms...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 10:15 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages



I don't record best friends or pets either Ellen, they are a completely 
different kettle of fish.
If I was to include those, I'd potentially look like a crazy cat lady to anyone 
who looked at my tree in future.

I do however have an albeit small number of people in my tree who have been in 
a same sex relationship for at least twice as long as a number of marriages.
If I am going to record a 3 year marriage, or a 5 year de-facto 
not-married-but-had-kids relationship, I should at least honour the 10+ year 
committed same sex relationship in the same way.
I am not going to deny the child one of their parents just because their 
parents didn't marry, so why should I deny someone their life partner because 
the law denies them the same rights to marriage as everyone else?



If Legacy brings in the ability for same-sex relationships to be recorded - 
it's going to be an optional thing, just the same as using the Research 
Guidance, or the Surety Levels, or adding images and sources are optional.

(Although I would hope that sources are being recorded somehow, even if the 
Basic Sources or Source Writer features aren't being used)

God Bless You too Ellen, hope you had a Merry Christmas.





On 26 December 2013 12:42, Ellen  wrote:

I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do not 
record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except for Church 
recognized marriages.  If you want that, that is your option.  From the studies 
that I have seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs that I have known, 
same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".  Not everyone wants 
Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like they might have with the below 
info.  I support them in not adding this as a feature.  Legacy hears from the 
few who want it far more often than those of us who are grateful for it not 
being there.



God bless,

Ellen




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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Marnie Oakes]

I have Church-recognized same sex marriages and civil same sex marriages
that I would like to be able to record as easily as I do opposite sex
marriages.  I understand that not everyone feels this way.
Unfortunately, that is not currently MY option with Legacy. That being
said, I accept that the owners/developers of Legacy will probably not
provide an easy path no matter how many requests there are.

I will continue to use Legacy because it fits most of my needs.

---Marnie

On 12/25/2013 9:42 PM, Ellen wrote:
> I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do
> not record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except
> for Church recognized marriages.  If you want that, that is /your/
> option.   [Italics mine]






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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Kathy Thompson]

I don't record best friends or pets either Ellen, they are a completely
different kettle of fish.
If I was to include those, I'd potentially look like a crazy cat lady to
anyone who looked at my tree in future.

I do however have an albeit small number of people in my tree who have been
in a same sex relationship for at least twice as long as a number of
marriages.
If I am going to record a 3 year marriage, or a 5 year de-facto
not-married-but-had-kids relationship, I should at least honour the 10+
year committed same sex relationship in the same way.
I am not going to deny the child one of their parents just because their
parents didn't marry, so why should I deny someone their life partner
because the law denies them the same rights to marriage as everyone else?

If Legacy brings in the ability for same-sex relationships to be recorded -
it's going to be an optional thing, just the same as using the Research
Guidance, or the Surety Levels, or adding images and sources are optional.
(Although I would hope that sources are being recorded somehow, even if the
Basic Sources or Source Writer features aren't being used)

God Bless You too Ellen, hope you had a Merry Christmas.



On 26 December 2013 12:42, Ellen  wrote:

> I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do not
> record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except for Church
> recognized marriages.  If you want that, that is your option.  From the
> studies that I have seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs that I
> have known, same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".  Not
> everyone wants Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like they might
> have with the below info.  I support them in not adding this as a feature.
>  Legacy hears from the few who want it far more often than those of us who
> are grateful for it not being there.
>
> God bless,
> Ellen
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:
>
> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program
> loads as well.
>
> Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the legality
> of gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without gay marriage
> being legal, we should respect and record the life-long partnerships that
> two people had - we do it for men and women who don't marry, we should be
> able to do it for same-sex relationships as well
>
> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents forward
> that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in recording
> people, their lives and their relationships.
>
>
> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support wrote:
>
>> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're comfortable with
>> using Access.  It's in the KB on our website
>> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sherry
>> Technical Support
>> Legacy Family Tree
>>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
> Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp
> Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and
> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Ellen]

I do not record relationships of couples who do not marry.  I also do not 
record all know "best friends" or "pets" or anything else except for Church 
recognized marriages.  If you want that, that is your option.  From the studies 
that I have seen and from all of the rare same-sex pairs that I have known, 
same-sex relationships typically are not "life-long".  Not everyone wants 
Legacy to make this possible, but it sounds like they might have with the below 
info.  I support them in not adding this as a feature.  Legacy hears from the 
few who want it far more often than those of us who are grateful for it not 
being there.

God bless,
Ellen

On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:03 AM, Kathy Thompson wrote:

> Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
> It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program loads 
> as well.
>
> Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the legality of 
> gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without gay marriage being 
> legal, we should respect and record the life-long partnerships that two 
> people had - we do it for men and women who don't marry, we should be able to 
> do it for same-sex relationships as well
>
> Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents forward 
> that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in recording 
> people, their lives and their relationships.
>
>
> On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support  wrote:
> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're comfortable with using 
> Access.  It's in the KB on our website  
> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Sherry
> Technical Support
> Legacy Family Tree




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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Kathy Thompson]

Only problem is, this work-around doesn't "stick".
It dissappears with updates and it seems to disappear between program loads
as well.

Need something more permanent in light of today's society and the legality
of gay marriage in many countries today - heck even without gay marriage
being legal, we should respect and record the life-long partnerships that
two people had - we do it for men and women who don't marry, we should be
able to do it for same-sex relationships as well

Please don't start on gay rights - I'm mearly putting my two cents forward
that this feature is something that is needed for accuracy in recording
people, their lives and their relationships.


On 20 December 2013 07:00, Sherry/Support wrote:

> No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're comfortable with
> using Access.  It's in the KB on our website
> http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Sherry
> Technical Support
> Legacy Family Tree
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Martyn Ward wrote:
>
>> This is my first post to this user group, so please forgive me if this
>> topic has been covered before.
>>
>> Could anyone tell me if Legacy v8 accommodates same Sex
>> Partnerships/Marriages?
>> I have entered several of these relationships into my tree but Legacy
>> does not allow you to enter 2 people of the same sex into a marriage or
>> partnership.
>> It still treats them as a male & female.  Is there any way that you can
>> get round this so that both the people in the partnership have their
>> correct gender?
>>
>>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
> Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp
> Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and
> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Same Sex Partnerships/Marriages

[Sherry/Support]

No - but there is an extensive work-around if you're comfortable with using
Access.  It's in the KB on our website
http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00549/14/Tips-and-How-Tos/Same-sex-couples.html


Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Martyn Ward  wrote:

> This is my first post to this user group, so please forgive me if this
> topic has been covered before.
>
> Could anyone tell me if Legacy v8 accommodates same Sex
> Partnerships/Marriages?
> I have entered several of these relationships into my tree but Legacy does
> not allow you to enter 2 people of the same sex into a marriage or
> partnership.
> It still treats them as a male & female.  Is there any way that you can
> get round this so that both the people in the partnership have their
> correct gender?
>
>



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