Re: [L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
En relación a Re: [L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British , el 4 Oct 00, a las 15:35, Louis Proyect dijo: > >> Was this about "iconography"? Or was something more substantial > >> involved? In fact, the government of Juan Perón was one of the most > >> progressive in Latin American history in the 20th century. Here is > >> a list of its accomplishments: > > > > Write a similar essay in support of Roosevelt? > > > > Owen > > Argentina was the victim of the United States. The "Good Neighbor" > policy was an extension of the Monroe Doctrine. From a class > standpoint, it makes much more sense to see Peron in terms of a long > line of progressive, but non-revolutionary, Latin American leaders who > were overthrown through a combination of CIA subversion, outright > military intervention and economic pressure. I include: Arbenz, > Cardenas Sr. in Mexico, Allende, Alan Garcia (to a lesser extent), > Cheddi Jagan, Hugo Chavez et al. Carrol has reminded you of Bosch (a great one, indeed!), and I must include Vargas in Brazil, as well as Balmaceda in Chile, Villarroel in Bolivia, Zelaya in Nicaragua (decades before Sandino, who took up part of his work and gave it a new turn), and many others. Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
To be able to achieve these things in a Third World country is an entirely different affair. A first world country can do this without much trouble, save from the worst sectors of the Imperialist bourgeoisie (who denounced Roosevelt as a Communist, yes). In a place such as Argentina, one has to deal with resistance from the local bourgeoisie, Imperialist governments, and the Imperialist bourgeoisie, not to mention the apprehension of neighbouring countries that do not appreciate the threat of an alternative model. There is no comparison, ultimately. Such a path in a Third World country is almost a betrayal of the entire Imperialist system, even if it is not even close to a revolutionary government. Macdonald - Original Message - From: "Owen Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Write a similar essay in support of Roosevelt? > ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
Louis Proyect wrote: > I include: Arbenz, Cardenas Sr. in Mexico, Allende, Alan Garcia > (to a lesser extent), Cheddi Jagan, Hugo Chavez et al. You leave out a very important figure, Lou, Juan Bosch Gaviño, of the Dominican Republic. I mark my own path to marxism by the Domincan Intervention of 1965 and a quote from Bosch, which I don't remember exactly, but was to the effect that "Every patriotic Latin American leader who trusted the United States ended up dead or in exile." I did a brief Web search on Dominican history but came up with only a few fairly superficial accounts. Carrol ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
>> Was this about "iconography"? Or was something more substantial involved? >> In fact, the government of Juan Perón was one of the most progressive in >> Latin American history in the 20th century. Here is a list of its >> accomplishments: > > Write a similar essay in support of Roosevelt? > > Owen Argentina was the victim of the United States. The "Good Neighbor" policy was an extension of the Monroe Doctrine. From a class standpoint, it makes much more sense to see Peron in terms of a long line of progressive, but non-revolutionary, Latin American leaders who were overthrown through a combination of CIA subversion, outright military intervention and economic pressure. I include: Arbenz, Cardenas Sr. in Mexico, Allende, Alan Garcia (to a lesser extent), Cheddi Jagan, Hugo Chavez et al. Sometimes they are traditional figures of the left, like Allende, but most often they are populists in the left-Bolivarist tradition. In any case, there is no mistaking their determination to resist imperialism. Unfortunately what has been lacking is a determination to go the whole route and arm the masses. Louis Proyect The Marxism mailing-list: http://www.marxmail.org ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
[L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
Reply to Louis Proyect, at [EMAIL PROTECTED], who wrote on the 3/10/2000 20:53: > Was this about "iconography"? Or was something more substantial involved? > In fact, the government of Juan Perón was one of the most progressive in > Latin American history in the 20th century. Here is a list of its > accomplishments: Write a similar essay in support of Roosevelt? Owen ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
Re: [L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
Owen wrote: > > Firstly I do not think that Peronism was a fascist movement. A fascist >movement cannot rest on the organised working class like Peronism. Peronism >was a form of Bonapartism, hence the fact it mixed the imagery, phraseology >and iconography of the far-Right with the far-Left. Was this about "iconography"? Or was something more substantial involved? In fact, the government of Juan Perón was one of the most progressive in Latin American history in the 20th century. Here is a list of its accomplishments: 1. Taking advantage of government leniency if not outright support, trade unions were formed in every industry. 2. Social security was made universal. 3. Education was made free to all who qualified. 4. Vast low-income housing projects were created. 5. Paid vacations became standard. 6. A working student was given one paid week before every major examination. 7. All workers (including white-collar employees like bank tellers, etc.) were guaranteed free medical care and half of their vacation-trip expenses. 8. A mother-to-be received 3 paid months off prior to and after giving birth. 9. Workers recreation centers were constructed all over Argentina, including a vast resort in the lower Sierras that included 8 hotels, scores of cabins, movies, swimming pools and riding stables. This resort was available to workers for 15 days a year, at the cost of 15 cents per day, all services included. In order to strengthen Argentina's economy, Perón created the Argentina Institute for Promotion of Exchange (AIPE), a monopoly that handled all commodity exports. Cattle, wheat, etc. were sold at a high price overseas. While not socialism, this measure was consistent with the traditional Marxist demand for a monopoly on foreign trade. Perón also bought out the local IT&T operation and the railroad and trolley system from Great Britain. He paid off Argentina's foreign debt and launched a 5-year plan in 1946 that covered everything from the woman's right to vote to shipbuilding. By 1954 Perón had initiated more than 45 major hydroelectric projects designed to produce 2 billion kilowatt-hours of energy, 20 times the amount that was available in 1936. While in hindsight we can say that these projects had ecological drawbacks, they still represented an audacious step in the direction of making every citizen's life more fulfilling. By 1947, Argentina had launched its own iron and steel industry. It was also moving forward in coal extraction and other raw materials using the most advanced technology available at the time. It began to make farm machinery, planes and cars in modest numbers. Ship-building had expanded by 500 percent under Perón's regime. But Perón failed to sustain these progressive changes over the long haul. All of the gains of the Perón era have disappeared as workers' lives and fortunes have gone downhill. What happened? Basically Perón failed because his reforms were not radical enough. For example, although he raised rural wages and forced landlords to sell cheap to the AIPE, he refused to take the next step when they balked. He did not nationalize the land. Thus, the amount of land under cultivation dropped from nearly 22 million hectares in 1934-38 to just over 17 million in 1955. What you had was a producer's strike, not that much different from the kind Allende was confronted by. His philosophy was not fascist at all, but a 'third way' called "Justicialismo" that tried to steer clear between capitalism and socialism. Although I have not made a systematic study of the ideological roots of Perónism, it appears closely related to the APRA movement launched by Haya de la Torre in Peru. Progressives associated with this movement, including Alan Garcia, have a record of caving in to imperialism. The one thing that they can do to keep imperialism at bay is impermissible: to arm the workers and expropriate the expropriators. After Perón was overthrown by the military in 1955, the ruling class took steps almost immediately to foster the development of democracy, which in reality was a fig leaf for their brutality and greed. Arturo Frondizi was groomed to take over as the first 'democratic' President. In this venture he was backed by a millionaire ex-Communist named Rogelio Frigerio, who defined democracy as "that system where money speaks louder than principles." It was no accident that an ex-Communist would lend his energy and resources to such a project. As a Communist, Frigerio--following the party line--was for the overthrow of Perón. Now as a capitalist, he could have his cake and eat it too. Using funds from Frigerio, Frondizi launched a magazine titled "Qué" that recruited both rightist and leftist talent. All you needed to get a job was a facile pen and hatred for the Perónist legacy. Meanwhile, Frigerio had no trouble making pals with the military, even though his magazine was promoting 'democracy'. Paying heed to Mexico's revolutionary President Alvaro Obregón, who once said, "
[L-I] Re: Owen's unconscious and the British Fleet
Firstly I do not think that Peronism was a fascist movement. A fascist movement cannot rest on the organised working class like Peronism. Peronism was a form of Bonapartism, hence the fact it mixed the imagery, phraseology and iconography of the far-Right with the far-Left. Will you deny that Peronism provided a refuge for Nazis? That Argentina became the biggest refuge for Nazis on the planet? Shall I start to name some of the prominent Nazis who were granted jobs and extravagant lifestyles by the regime of Peron? Perhaps this should be stated without confidence. Like - er, well, Peronism, kind of Bonapartist, I think, not really sure, perhaps it was but then on the other hand, well, I'm confused, but it provided a refuge for Nazis, so I read, I think I read, or maybe I hallucinated reading it, or maybe I was dreaming or something... Ah right. So if British imperialist propaganda had one position I must automatically, de facto, have the opposite opinion, or else I am one of them. If they say the earth circles the sun then I must dispute it. Maybe I should write tracts defending the Austrian Freedom Party since it was attacked by imperialism. Anyway, I, High Spokesman of the British Imperialist Propaganda Council, yesterday attended a Committee for Peace in the Balkans, an anti-war group dedicated to opposing imperialism in Yugoslavia with united-front tactics. There were a few members of Manchester's Serbian community attending, who combated some of our ignorance on the question, right down to the pronunciation of Kostunica's name. They tried to get us to realise WHY people supported the opposition. I myself contributed and denounced the opposition. Shit, I am a pretty piss-poor apologist of imperialist propaganda. And in my opinion, the best Marxist is one that can spit on their flag without regrets, no? Cheers Owen ___ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
