Re: 848fca9 & 18f08bf: A rewrite of qt_gui.getImageFinder

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 18:56:35 -0700 (PDT)
Chris George  wrote:

> I would say the ability to point to these images lies somewhere else
> in Leo's code.

Can't imagine that it hasn't been encountered in the recent work, but I
know there's some code that caches icons, for cases where there's
multiple icons, like the box icon and maybe a todo icon and some other
icon the user added - IIRC these are made into a single wide icon
that's cached so that op. doesn't need to be repeated.

But I'm sure the cache is memory session transient, so can't see how it
would interact with path issues - maybe it's not relevant.

Cheers -Terry

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Re: 848fca9 & 18f08bf: A rewrite of qt_gui.getImageFinder

[Chris George]

I just replaced the box icons found in ../leo-editor/leo/Icons (they were 
white background) with the transparent icons. Now I can load the "dark" 
boxes. And people running light themes will load the "light" boxes.

So if you move the box00.png...box15.png (take the .bmp too, just to be 
sure) to a different folder and copy the box icons from "dark", you should 
get box icons that work.

Unfortunately if you remove the box icons from the leo-editor/leo/Icons 
directory, the image load fails and you get no icons at all. So the white 
icons were always coming from ../leo-editor/leo/Icons, while the occasional 
teases of transparent icons came from somewhere else.

I would say the ability to point to these images lies somewhere else in 
Leo's code.


Chris

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 5:39:11 PM UTC-7, Terry Brown wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:33:59 -0700 (PDT) 
> "Edward K. Ream" > wrote: 
>
> > On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote: 
> > 
> > Imo, this should find images in all the reasonable places, in the 
> > most 
> > > reasonable order. 
> > >   
> > 
> > Rev ece92f9 adds the x/themes/icons to both tables for all paths x. 
> > The principle behind the search order is that the most specific 
> > directory is searched first, except that ~ is preferred to ~/.leo. 
> > 
> > The new table-driven scheme should find all images.  The only 
> > question is whether they will find them in exactly the same order as 
> > before... 
>
> ece92f94e3 still white boxes in a dark theme, but like you say, could be 
> ordering. 
>
> Cheers -Terry 
>
> > 
> > Edward 
> > ece92f94e310 
>

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Re: 848fca9 & 18f08bf: A rewrite of qt_gui.getImageFinder

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
"Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> 
> Imo, this should find images in all the reasonable places, in the
> most 
> > reasonable order.
> >  
> 
> Rev ece92f9 adds the x/themes/icons to both tables for all paths x.
> The principle behind the search order is that the most specific
> directory is searched first, except that ~ is preferred to ~/.leo.
> 
> The new table-driven scheme should find all images.  The only
> question is whether they will find them in exactly the same order as
> before...

ece92f94e3 still white boxes in a dark theme, but like you say, could be 
ordering.

Cheers -Terry

> 
> Edward
> ece92f94e310

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Re: tree icons

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
"Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:04:54 PM UTC-5, Terry Brown wrote:
> >
> > Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree
> > icons are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that? 
> >  
> 
> Please do a git bisect to discover the exact rev that causes the
> problems. Thanks.

852d8e40

Cheers -Terry

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Re: 848fca9 & 18f08bf: A rewrite of qt_gui.getImageFinder

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

Imo, this should find images in all the reasonable places, in the most 
> reasonable order.
>

Rev ece92f9 adds the x/themes/icons to both tables for all paths x.  The 
principle behind the search order is that the most specific directory is 
searched first, except that ~ is preferred to ~/.leo.

The new table-driven scheme should find all images.  The only question is 
whether they will find them in exactly the same order as before...

Edward

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848fca9 & 18f08bf: A rewrite of qt_gui.getImageFinder

[Edward K. Ream]

848fca9 comments out old code. 18f08bf removes the old code.

The new code is a complete rewrite:

1. It relies on g.os_path_finalize_join to do all the heavy lifting.  There 
is something seriously wrong if this doesn't work.

2. It uses tables to define the search order of directories.  There are two 
versions of the tables, depending on whether g.app.theme_color exists.The 
tables define more places to look, and make clear what the search order 
is.  Here is the synopsis of the code:

color = g.app.theme_color
join = g.os_path_finalize_join
# Normalizes slashes, etc.
home = g.os_path_normslashes(g.app.homeLeoDir)
leo = join(g.app.loadDir, '..')
if color:
table = [
join(home, 'themes', color, 'Icons'),
join(home, 'themes', color),
join(home, 'themes'),
join(home, '.leo', 'themes', color, 'Icons'),
join(home, '.leo', 'themes', color),
join(home, '.leo', 'themes'),
join(leo, 'themes', color, 'Icons'),
join(leo, 'themes', color),
join(leo, 'themes'),
join(leo, 'Icons', color),
join(leo, 'Icons'),
]
else:
table = [
join(home, 'themes'),
join(home, '.leo', 'themes'),
join(leo, 'themes'),
join(leo, 'Icons'),
]
for base_dir in table:
path = join(base_dir, name)
if g.os_path_exists(path):
if trace: g.trace('found %s -> %s' % (color, path))
return path
g.trace('not found', color or '', name)
return None

Imo, this should find images in all the reasonable places, in the most 
reasonable order.

Let me know if you disagree, or find other problems.

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:04:54 PM UTC-5, Terry Brown wrote:
>
> Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons 
> are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that? 
>

Please do a git bisect to discover the exact rev that causes the problems.  
Thanks.

Edward

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Re: Chris, with your permission I'd like to edit #808

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:50:27 PM UTC-5, Chris George wrote:

I tend to be wordy in hoping to convey the meaning.
>

Sure, we want to be as concise as possible.  In this case, though, I just 
didn't understand what you wrote until much later.

In general, I think it's good to remove back and forth as long as the 
*conclusion* is clear, which it is, I think, in this case.

And suppose further problems do arise.  We have to ask ourselves whether 
old discussions will really help.  It's kinda like housecleaning.  I tend 
to err on the side of giving/throwing away too much.  Once in awhile I make 
a mistake, but I think those kinds of mistakes are worth the risk.  And my 
house is really neat ;-)

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

Clearly, something *did* break your theme, and that's a bug.
>

​Rev 7f44cb4 enables tracing in ssm.resolve_urls. That should tell you a
lot.  ​


​As I suggested to Chris, you might also want to enable tracing in
qt_gui.getImageFinder.​


> I'll reopen the appropriate issue if I can't find the culprit soon.
>

​Done. Breaking themes is way not ok.

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

I always had @string color_theme set.  It might be partly not searching
> ~/.leo/themes, possibly dropping an implicit Icons somewhere - haven't
> really diagnosed.  Not opposed to changing my theme if that's easy.
>

​It's not you I'm really worried about ;-) I don't want to break anyone
else's theme.

Clearly, something *did* break your theme, and that's a bug.  I'll reopen
the appropriate issue if I can't find the culprit soon.

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:30:50 -0500
"Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Terry Brown 
> wrote:
> >
> > Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree
> > icons  
> >> are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that?
> >
> > Try
> > ​​
> > @string color_theme = name, where leo/themes/name or leo/Icons/name
> > contains the desired icons.
> 
> ​This might work, but it's not great.  I hardly want to tell everyone
> to change their stylesheets.
> 
> Hmm.  One would think that it would be possible to have everything
> work *exactly* as before if the
> ​
> @string color_theme setting does not exist.  I'll see if I can make
> that happen.

I always had @string color_theme set.  It might be partly not searching
~/.leo/themes, possibly dropping an implicit Icons somewhere - haven't
really diagnosed.  Not opposed to changing my theme if that's easy.

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Re: Chris, with your permission I'd like to edit #808

[Chris George]

I tend to be wordy in hoping to convey the meaning.

As Mark Twain quipped: "I am sorry for writing such a long letter, I didn't 
have time to write a short one."

Chris


> ​I agree that this is the wise course in general, but the "less said the 
> better" principle *may* also apply.
>
> Edward
>

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Re: tree icons

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:16:30 -0500
"Edward K. Ream"  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Terry Brown 
> wrote:
> 
> Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons
> > are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that?
> 
> Try @string color_theme = name, where leo/themes/name or
> leo/Icons/name contains the desired icons.

that's set (leo_dark_0) , but doesn't seem to be in the path:

can not load image: 
/home/tbrown/local/leo-editor/leo/Icons/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png

not

/home/tbrown/local/leo-editor/leo/Icons/leo_dark_0/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png

It used to find them in

~/.leo/themes/leo_dark_0/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png

with @string color_theme = leo_dark_0 and target icon name
"file_icons/folder-saved-search.png".

Cheers -Terry

> > Also seeing  
> 
> > can not load image: /home/tbrown/local/leo-editor/  
> leo/Icons/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png
> 
> Probably the same cause.
> 
> Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:
>
> Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons
>> are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that?
>>
>
> Try
> ​​
> @string color_theme = name, where leo/themes/name or leo/Icons/name
> contains the desired icons.
>

​This might work, but it's not great.  I hardly want to tell everyone to
change their stylesheets.

Hmm.  One would think that it would be possible to have everything work
*exactly* as before if the
​
@string color_theme setting does not exist.  I'll see if I can make that
happen.

Edward

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Re: Chris, with your permission I'd like to edit #808

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

I think editing conclusions and summaries in the first / top comment is
> good, but I don't know about deleting comments, seeing the msg. "Edward
> Ream deleted a comment by Chris George..." is just jarring


​Yeah.  There is a problem here.  Responses from emails can't have full
markdown markup.

In the past my solution was to copy/paste responses into a *new* comment,
but as you say this can be jarring because we have no idea what has been
deleted or why. Whenever I have done this I have explained why in the "new"
comment, but still...

I have been careful to follow your advice about never deleting other
people's comments, which is why I asked permission this time.

There are always lots of subtleties et
> ​​
> c. in discussions
> ​ ​
> people might want to be reminded of.


​In general, yes.  In this case, I am fairly confident that the summary is
best and that it's safe to delete everything else.  Apparently Chris agrees.

So I guess I vote for free
> editing of the top comment, but not bothering to delete other comments.
>

​I agree that this is the wise course in general, but the "less said the
better" principle *may* also apply.

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Chris George]

I believe the light icons are the Qt defaults. I may be wrong, but I tested 
to rule out interference while troubleshooting this. 

At one point I tested ../leo-editor/leo/themes/dark as the location (theme 
name being dark). Without that folder, I restarted Leo into white icons. 
With it, dark ones. Did it twice.

Now I can't display the dark boxes (they are actually transparent) to save 
my life.

As for the images, a url(theme name/image.name); does the trick in the 
stylesheet. No need for full local pathnames anymore.

Chris

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 11:06:13 AM UTC-7, Terry Brown wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:04:51 -0500 
> Terry Brown > wrote: 
>
> > Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons 
> > are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that? 
>
> Also seeing 
>
> can not load image: 
> /home/tbrown/local/leo-editor/leo/Icons/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png 
>
> for the first time. 
>

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Re: Basic Layout of the Leo GUI

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 12:48 PM, rengel 
wrote:

>
> As far as flaunting convention, Leo isn't really like any other program.
>> I am not sure if the tyranny of the marketplace should apply to it.
>>
>
> Yeah, that's great, isn't is? This is a free world. In an open source
> world, nobody is forced to follow any conventions or standards or customs.
> But then don't wonder, why the market isn't embracing Leo.
>

​Enough.  This is not a constructive conversation.

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Terry Brown  wrote:

Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons
> are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that?
>

Try @string color_theme = name, where leo/themes/name or leo/Icons/name
contains the desired icons.

> Also seeing

> can not load image: /home/tbrown/local/leo-editor/
leo/Icons/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png

Probably the same cause.

Edward

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Re: tree icons

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:04:51 -0500
Terry Brown  wrote:

> Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons
> are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that?

Also seeing

can not load image: 
/home/tbrown/local/leo-editor/leo/Icons/file_icons/folder-saved-search.png

for the first time.

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tree icons

[Terry Brown]

Doh, my theme had survived unscathed until just now, now my tree icons
are light in a dark theme.  How do I fix that?

Thanks, Terry

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Re: Basic Layout of the Leo GUI

[rengel]

> As far as flaunting convention, Leo isn't really like any other program.  
> I am not sure if the tyranny of the marketplace should apply to it.
>

Yeah, that's great, isn't is? This is a free world. In an open source 
world, nobody is forced to follow any conventions or standards or customs. 
But then don't wonder, why the market isn't embracing Leo. I'm not saying: 
Leo should be so and so. I'm saying: If Leo wants more of the people 
suffering from the 'tyranny of the market', then it might possibly 
advisable to look at what the market is doing...
But then, this is only my personal opinion (and may be of some others who 
've been into marketing...). I mean, who care ss for potential customers or 
users?

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Re: Chris, with your permission I'd like to edit #808

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 09:58:47 -0700
Chris George  wrote:

> Absolutely. Summarizing the conversation and leaving it around for
> future reference is smart.

I think editing conclusions and summaries in the first / top comment is
good, but I don't know about deleting comments, seeing the msg. "Edward
Ream deleted a comment by Chris George..." is just jarring, even
knowing that the content of the comment probably got moved into top
comment.  There are always lots of subtleties etc. in discussions
people might want to be reminded of.  So I guess I vote for free
editing of the top comment, but not bothering to delete other comments.

Cheers -Terry

> Chris
> 
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:18 AM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
> > I'd like to fold the last comment into the first, and eliminate
> > almost everything else.
> >
> > Imo, doing so would help in case further problems remain.  What do
> > you think?
> >
> > Edward
> >
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Re: Chris, with your permission I'd like to edit #808

[Chris George]

Absolutely. Summarizing the conversation and leaving it around for
future reference is smart.

Chris

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:18 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:
> I'd like to fold the last comment into the first, and eliminate almost
> everything else.
>
> Imo, doing so would help in case further problems remain.  What do you
> think?
>
> Edward
>
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Chris, with your permission I'd like to edit #808

[Edward K. Ream]

I'd like to fold the last comment into the first, and eliminate almost 
everything else.

Imo, doing so would help in case further problems remain.  What do you 
think?

Edward

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Re: OT: A better way to code, by Mike Bostock

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Of course, the advantage of Joe Orr's Leo Vue demo is that it provides a
single link to follow, which is what happens with most of the web native
apps, with nothing to install, just a link and you're done (provided
that you have good connectivity, which doesn't happen in a lot of places
of the world, for example just two hours away of here or even in some
parts of capital cities in the Global South).

But neither Leo or Grafoscopio can provide a single link experience.
Demos are just full of text, instructions to follow and software to
install and update, as happens with most of desktop apps, that works
well without connectivity. Fortunately not having a single link to
experience Leo (without reading, downloading, installing, executing and
going to the community for more learning) was not a prerequisite for
current users to experience Leo. We would never know about it, with such
prerequisite.

Cheers,

Offray


On 20/03/18 10:30, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> On 20/03/18 04:02, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> Comparing the fluency and momentum I get with Pharo with Python
>> or Javascript or similar file based and indirect techs, is
>> difficult to invest time in learning them deeply
>>
>>
>> ​I'm glad you are exploring the Pharo world.  The world doesn't
>> especially need more Python or Javascript programmers ;-)
>> ​
>
> I totally agree :-).
>
>>  
>>
>> I really like the idea of live coding and making code talk being
>> explored in different technologies. I think there is a lot to
>> learn from cross
>> ​ ​
>> pollination of ideas and communities.
>>
>> At least, that's what I'm trying with Grafoscopio, mixing ideas
>> from Leo, IPython, Smalltalk and some of my own harvest.
>>
>>
>> ​Please continue to keep us informed. What I would like to see from
>> you is a demo as thrilling as Joe Orr's LeoVue demo
>> .  Make that only link you
>> send us, so we will be sure to follow it ;-)
>>
>
> I don't have such demo, at least not easily consumable as just
> pointing to a web page, like in Joe's case, because web is not my
> primary focus now (I think that web kind of sucks as a programming
> platform and is really convoluted as a publishing one, but has the big
> advantage of ubiquity). But we have some demos.
>
>   * A short video[1] of what is possible mixing live coding and
> outlining for the case of the Panama Papers[2]
>
> [1]
> 
> http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/wiki/grafoscopio/video.html
> [2] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/panama-papers-1
>
>   * Complete books/manuals done or opened with Grafoscopio, like the
> Grafoscopio Manual[3], The Data Journalism Manual[4][5]
>
> [3]
> 
> http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/Books/Manual/manual.pdf
> [4] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/mapeda/uv/mapeda.pdf
> [5] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/mapeda/doc/tip/intro.md
>
>   * Customized agile data visualization for a comparative study on
> released medicine information on 16 countries[6].
> [6] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/sdv-infomed
>
> And this semester we are preparing some Twitter Data Selfies
> project... so yes, I will keep you informed. At least with some ideas
> I can give back to a community that has been so welcoming and
> inspiring like this one.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
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Re: Basic Layout of the Leo GUI

[Chris George]

Heh.

I lived my entire life in one file for almost a decade. That file created 
and controlled over a thousand others in the file system, but only one Leo 
file.

I like context as an organizing principle. I learned to stop thinking in a 
file centric way when it comes to Leo. Now I have five or six different 
files, one for each of the different contexts I work in: Programming, 
Fiction, Non-Fiction, Websites, Meta (for stuff about Leo like the recent 
theming work), etc.

As far as flaunting convention, Leo isn't really like any other program.  I 
am not sure if the tyranny of the marketplace should apply to it.

Chris

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 8:40:36 AM UTC-7, rengel wrote:
>
> ... Leo doesn't use tabs to switch files...
>
>  
> Well, I do. 'workbook' in one tab, 'Settings' in a second tab, 
> and some application-specific Leo file in a third tab. 
> That way I might work on three or four Leo files in parallel.
> But thanks, for trying to explain.
>
> Reinhard
>
>
>
>

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Summary of themes-related work

[Edward K. Ream]

Here is the summary of recent themes work. This will be pre-writing for new 
themes documentation.

1. [Today] Rev 168d79c0 converts all relative url's in stylesheets to 
absolute paths.  This may fix #808 
. I have just close 
it. Please reopen if necessary. The new code is in ssm.resolve_urls. If 
problems remain in the stylesheet, you can enable tracing in resolve_urls 
to see exactly what is happening.

2. [Yesterday] Leo now loads theme files *early* in the load process. This 
is the only way to hand syntax-coloring settings properly.

The @theme-name setting is now roughly equivalent to the --theme=name 
command-line option.  Both cause the named file to be loaded *as a settings 
file*.

3. [Ongoing] The leo/themes folders now contains three themes and three 
helper test files, for optional use by theme devs. I have been making small 
tweaks to Chris George's theme to keep track with infrastructure work.

Imo, it's useful to use stand-alone settings files, especially when 
developing themes.  Otoh, defining themes in myLeoSettings.leo works as 
before and will never be deprecated.  Defining themes in myLeoSettings.leo 
will be just a tad faster than using an external theme file, but that 
should not be of great concern.

4. The Themes menu contains a single menu item: Open Theme File. This will 
soon be renamed to something like "View Theme".  It doesn't deserve a menu 
all to itself, so it will move to the Settings menu.

*Change*: Open Theme File now opens the selected file in a separate 
process.  This should suffice to demo the theme. The command no longer 
makes "live" changes to Leo's appearance.  Such changes were always bogus.

*Change*: The Open Theme File command executes "leo , which 
means that "leo" must be an executable script.  Not sure how to eliminate 
this dependency.

*Summary*

Leo now supports the --theme command-line argument and the @string 
theme-name setting.  Both load the named theme file early in Leo's startup 
process. Defining themes in myLeoSettings.leo will continue to work as 
before. Doing so will never be deprecated.

The leo/themes folder contains three themes.  I plan to add no further 
theme files, but I encourage others to do so.

The Open Theme File menu item merely demos themes.  It will be renamed and 
move to the Settings menu.

Theme-related code is difficult, but it is now about as clean as can be 
expected. Problems may remain. All questions, comments and bug reports are 
welcome.

Edward

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Re: Basic Layout of the Leo GUI

[rengel]

... Leo doesn't use tabs to switch files...

 
Well, I do. 'workbook' in one tab, 'Settings' in a second tab, 
and some application-specific Leo file in a third tab.
But thanks, for trying to explain.

Reinhard

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Re: OT: A better way to code, by Mike Bostock

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,


On 20/03/18 04:02, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> Comparing the fluency and momentum I get with Pharo with Python or
> Javascript or similar file based and indirect techs, is difficult
> to invest time in learning them deeply
>
>
> ​I'm glad you are exploring the Pharo world.  The world doesn't
> especially need more Python or Javascript programmers ;-)
> ​

I totally agree :-).

>  
>
> I really like the idea of live coding and making code talk being
> explored in different technologies. I think there is a lot to
> learn from cross
> ​ ​
> pollination of ideas and communities.
>
> At least, that's what I'm trying with Grafoscopio, mixing ideas
> from Leo, IPython, Smalltalk and some of my own harvest.
>
>
> ​Please continue to keep us informed. What I would like to see from
> you is a demo as thrilling as Joe Orr's LeoVue demo
> .  Make that only link you
> send us, so we will be sure to follow it ;-)
>

I don't have such demo, at least not easily consumable as just pointing
to a web page, like in Joe's case, because web is not my primary focus
now (I think that web kind of sucks as a programming platform and is
really convoluted as a publishing one, but has the big advantage of
ubiquity). But we have some demos.

  * A short video[1] of what is possible mixing live coding and
outlining for the case of the Panama Papers[2]

[1]
http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/dataweek/doc/tip/wiki/grafoscopio/video.html
[2] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/panama-papers-1

  * Complete books/manuals done or opened with Grafoscopio, like the
Grafoscopio Manual[3], The Data Journalism Manual[4][5]

[3]

http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/Books/Manual/manual.pdf
[4] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/mapeda/uv/mapeda.pdf
[5] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/mapeda/doc/tip/intro.md

  * Customized agile data visualization for a comparative study on
released medicine information on 16 countries[6].
[6] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/sdv-infomed

And this semester we are preparing some Twitter Data Selfies project...
so yes, I will keep you informed. At least with some ideas I can give
back to a community that has been so welcoming and inspiring like this one.

Cheers,

Offray


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Re: Basic Layout of the Leo GUI

[Terry Brown]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 02:18:56 -0700 (PDT)
rengel  wrote:

> On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 3:23:40 PM UTC+1, Terry Brown wrote:
> >
> > Firefox / Chrome / and I think at least one of the MS browsers have
> > tabs on top. Admittedly they don't really have menu bars, but they
> > have similarly critical elements under the tabs.  In both cases
> > (Leo and browsers) the tabs represent a complete change of context,
> > so I don't really see the tab positioning as surprising.  In Leo,
> > perhaps more than other apps., changing tabs can change the menus
> > and tools available. 
> 
> You might be missing my point.
> As I understood, Leo is not up against Firefox, Chrome, or Gimp, but 
> against full-fledged development environments for programmers like
> PyCharm, Eric, Eclipse, and I might add Atom or VSCode. They all
> follow the paradigm that I described in my original post. 
> 
> You only have a couple of minutes to make a first impression. The 
> impression Leo makes is: Doesn't honor/follow established standards. 
> Period. No time, to check out just another homegrown editor.
> 
> Reinhard

I think the examples you give (and Gimp is in that category too) are
using tabs to switch files.  Leo uses tabs to switch contexts, and in
that case browsers are the widespread familiar example.  Leo doesn't
use tabs to switch files.  You can use the bookmarks plugin to achieve
the same thing, and put the bookmarks in the position used by the file
switching tabs in your examples.  Leo also has other ways of collecting
"the subset of things I'm working on now", like clones.

Attempting to use Leo's context tabs to switch files the way PyCharm
etc. do would be very inefficient, requiring one .leo file per source
file.

Cheers -Terry

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Re: Basic Layout of the Leo GUI

[rengel]

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 3:23:40 PM UTC+1, Terry Brown wrote:
>
> Firefox / Chrome / and I think at least one of the MS browsers have tabs 
> on top. Admittedly they don't really have menu bars, but they have 
> similarly critical elements under the tabs.  In both cases (Leo and 
> browsers) the tabs represent a complete change of context, so I don't 
> really see the tab positioning as surprising.  In Leo, perhaps more 
> than other apps., changing tabs can change the menus and tools 
> available. 
>

You might be missing my point.
As I understood, Leo is not up against Firefox, Chrome, or Gimp, but 
against full-fledged development environments for programmers like PyCharm, 
Eric, Eclipse, and I might add Atom or VSCode. They all follow the paradigm 
that I described in my original post. 

You only have a couple of minutes to make a first impression. The 
impression Leo makes is: Doesn't honor/follow established standards. 
Period. No time, to check out just another homegrown editor.

Reinhard

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Re: OT: A better way to code, by Mike Bostock

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:50 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
off...@riseup.net> wrote:

I still remember the day when, just three months after using Pharo and its
> ecosystem, I was able to prototype an outliner with live coding [8] nodes,
> something I was proposing/trying with Leo + IPython without much
> advancements for years
>

​Excellent. Such memories extremely rare.  There are really only three or
four similar memories in Leo's entire history.​


Comparing the fluency and momentum I get with Pharo with Python or
> Javascript or similar file based and indirect techs, is difficult to invest
> time in learning them deeply
>

​I'm glad you are exploring the Pharo world.  The world doesn't especially
need more Python or Javascript programmers ;-)
​


> I really like the idea of live coding and making code talk being explored
> in different technologies. I think there is a lot to learn from cross
> ​ ​
> pollination of ideas and communities.
>
At least, that's what I'm trying with Grafoscopio, mixing ideas from Leo,
> IPython, Smalltalk and some of my own harvest.
>

​Please continue to keep us informed. What I would like to see from you is
a demo as thrilling as Joe Orr's LeoVue demo
.  Make that only link you send
us, so we will be sure to follow it ;-)

Edward

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