Re: Install and use Leointeg with Anaconda python

[Edward K. Ream]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 2:38 PM Félix  wrote:

> So...Either configure a python command line setting in leo Integs
settings, and use the 'run extension' only in the run/debugger dropdown. OR
, don't start server automatically, and use the "start both server and
extension" in the run/debuger dropdown instead. (ok to connect
automatically though, doesnt matter how the server was started to connect
to it automatically)

Thanks for this summary.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS0xPsEPP1zhqyyYajWHGS_hWjkcdcaeQkPcCVU2PXt-zQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: Install and use Leointeg with Anaconda python

[Félix]

Just copy/pasting here from the leoInteg issues in calse people are lloking 
here for details about this : another description of the possible ways to 
start a server for leoInteg in this developnment version and environment 
that people are currently using it. 

(finished product will not have all those possibilities which will remove 
the possible confusion) 

Leointeg's Python Command configuration set to python and Running the 
extension with the Server and Extension option are mutually exclusive: I 
have not explained those concepts clearly - and as I wanted to give more 
options for tester than less, it seems people are mix and matching those 
methods of starting the server in erroneous ways.


So to clarify: if you're running the extension with the "Server and 
Extension", then, the python command could be set to 'potato' it wouldn't 
matter because it's not used then. That would be using the debug profile in 
the .vscode/launch.json file. which I encourage you to open and see for 
youself what those 3 debugging profiles are,. those will not exist at all 
when the extension is compiled and distributed as a real extension.


So this is important to distinguish: to simulate a real, finished 
extension, select 'run extension' only in the run/debug menu. this will 
force you to either :
1- set leoInteg option to start server automatically with the provided python 
command, both being in the leoInteg settings.
2- start a server by typing leobridgeserver.py in a terminal.

If you instead select "server AND extension" in the run/debug panel, then, 
vscode will run and debug the server by itself, as if vscode itself was 
considering the server program as it's main project. and will use whichever 
python debug setting vscode's debugger is set to. Not the leoInteg options!


So...Either configure a python command line setting in leo Integs settings, 
and use the 'run extension' only in the run/debugger dropdown. OR , don't 
start server automatically, and use the "start both server and extension" 
in the run/debuger dropdown instead. (ok to connect automatically though, 
doesnt matter how the server was started to connect to it automatically)


Again, sorry English is not my native language. (i guess i should capture 
myself as a screencast while explaining this)

--

Félix

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 5:56:12 PM UTC-4, Félix wrote:
>
> Hi Matt, 
>
> In this Thread, Ar-jan tells me the command 'start server' works form 
> leoInteg.
>  https://github.com/boltex/leointeg/issues/10#issuecomment-654152125 
> 
>
> That's the same command that is launched as when the 'start server 
> automatically' is set.
>
> So unless i'm mistaken he seems to have found a good procedure or command 
> line entry to set in the leointeg's options, in order to start the server 
> via the leoInteg extension, as would someone who uses a 'compiled' version 
> of the extension from the vscode 'online market'.
>
> Just to clarify, theres 3 (even 4 or 5) ways to start the 
> leobridgeserver.py server, 
> 1- through vscode's debugger (*F5* with the "*server and extension"* profile 
> selected) (that requires installing python extensions and all that, which 
> should not be required for someone using the extension for non-python stuff 
> and not wanting to debug it while it runs, such as a casual leo user 
> writing html, text, or non-python code)
> 2-through vscodes (original window - not the extension host) 's terminal.
> 3- through your OS'es generic console terminal like you would any other 
> utility. 
> 4- through leoIntegs's 'start server' command which is just a 'launch 
> process', (same as setting the 'start server automatically' in the options, 
> as stated above) 
> 5- through vscode (the extension host this time) 's terminal window.
>
> (With the goal being of ultimately finding a way for #4 in this list )
>
> People pressing F5 (start debuging) need to check which debug profile 
> they're on first! otherwise they might have started a server and then get 
> another 'port in use' error when actually also having leoInteg itself try 
> to start a server instance on your machine.
>
> So please take the time to go through the thread mentionned in leoIntegs 
> issues (#10 ) if you 
> haven't already, (or if you have, maybe new info was added.)
>
> Anyways i'm just throwing all that info here in case it brings something 
> to light that may have been overlooked and I'm very grateful for the time 
> and effort you've placed in trying to make a guide for conda/anaconda 
> users. (i'm very much ignorant about those)
>
> I intend to address the documentation and provide better support for 
> conda/anaconda users so any help is appreciated!
>
> Thanks Again Matt! 
> --
> Félix
>
>
> On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-4, Matt Wilkie wrote:
>>
>>
>> I just noticed you ran "npm audit fix" after running "npm install" so 

Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Félix]

This is interesting to me because I just got aware of the (relative) importance 
of seeing the print output as much as the g.es output, which I'm trying to 
implement in an elegant way, ...among other things the acme editor does. 

Thanks for exposing me to this. I realize its importance now.

Felix

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/886a7c4a-1c62-427d-80c8-6adfd0a73459o%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New features in leoInteg

[Félix]

Humm.. I turned the 'load plugins' flag back on... this seems to trip a plugin 
that cant deal with the null GUI... I'll wait for more details about this and 
see if people report crashes with plugins bugging at startup.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/f4872f00-7349-49b5-bf4f-8893cbd650dao%40googlegroups.com.

Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> wow. the linked Acme paper by Rob Pike is one for the permanent library, 
> to be read and re-read. haven't watched the video yet, but now I *have* 
> to! Published 1994 and I feel like I'm reading something from 2014 or 2024 
> (willfully stepping over some of the more obvious era-specific references).
>
> Surprised?  I mean, it sure seems like recent generations of developers 
> just keep making the same old mistakes, and then ultimately reinventing the 
> same stuff that folks did back in the day.  Not a profession that learns 
> from the past.
>

Surprised? Well yes, as evidenced by the 'wow's, and no, as this is one 
more in  a number of historic things still not evident in today's world. 
Today being a moving lens, some things in focus and most others not. I 
started my computing experience circa 1992. There are things from then 
absent now that I still miss regularly. But back to the why 'wow' here: 
it's some of the interaction concepts which are completely new to me.

Edward said *"I may have missed something truly interesting in this video. 
If so, please tell me exactly what it is."*

For me the video was rewarding after reading the acme paper 
[https://research.swtch.com/acme.pdf]. (Generally I find watching videos of 
other people driving a computer painful.) I think the two are best together 
and not in isolation.

Specific things that made me sit up and pay attention:

Middle click: whatever is selected are the command(s) to execute. It's akin 
to Leo's Ctrl-B execute script command but powered up so that it works 
everywhere, not just the body pane.

Right click is search for 'selected text', but how the search happens is 
context aware. If it's a path and the file exists, open it. If selection is 
a filename and a line number, open to that line. If  selection doesn't 
exist search for it generally. (Presumably across all open documents. Or 
something. There's more here that I didn't catch.)

Acme as a file system command object: `path/to/acme` is the program. 
`path/to/acme/copy ...` is conceptually akin to running `acme --copy 
{parameters}`. I imagine clones-find-all-flattened being called like 
`/bin/leo/cff {search pattern}`. The caller could be just an interactive 
command shell prompt or a program like vscode.

Output of commands/programs get their own panels in Acme automatically. 
(Flipping between Leo's log pane and shell console to catch messages is a 
constant low grade friction. Foreseeing ahead of time I need to declare 
print() or g.es() for process x  instead of just "gimme everything that 
happens" is mental work I consistently fail at.)

There's something about how the Undo/Redo stack is implemented that seems 
ingenious and stable. Admittedly this part is outside my ken; I'm a user 
and not much of a developer.

The constrained yet flexible window layout is intriguing. It appears very 
easy to arrange and manipulate dynamically as one works.

There are many more subtleties I can sense just beyond my grasp. There's 
only so far one can go in understanding without trying it, obviously. Like 
Leo and tree organization, external files, and clones.

-matt

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/54d785aa-ee95-4915-af59-6334684fa5e0o%40googlegroups.com.

Re: Discuss: compare zettlekasten, bookmarks, google

[Edward K. Ream]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 1:01 PM Thomas Passin  wrote:

Thanks, Thomas, for your lengthy comments.

> The subject of searching for browser bookmarks is challenging because you
only know two things from the bookmark itself: the URL and the page title.
Neither of them have much semantic content.  Most of the semantics has to
come from the terms you use to file the bookmark.  But those terms aren't
always stable over time.

Are any links/categories stable over time? I'm constantly adding/deleting
bookmarks. That doesn't bother me much.

Also, it's possible to add some extra notes to bookmarks in the "tag" or
"keywords" fields. I don't use those fields for searching or filtering,
just for storing a bit of extra data.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS2dN7YUQEhW7j--A2yq0GcJGjkKRu83DvN_B9XPj%3DMweQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Edward K. Ream]

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 12:35:42 PM UTC-5, SegundoBob wrote:

https://research.swtch.com/acme
>
>
I may have missed something truly interesting in this video. If so, please 
tell me exactly what it is.

Edward

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/144e760e-6bd2-4a44-9844-fb9e782e6013o%40googlegroups.com.

Re: New features in leoInteg

[Brad]

I am using the extension by Alessandro Fragnani.

Kind regards,
Brad
 

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 2:00:58 PM UTC-6, Félix wrote:
>
> Thank for your update Brad, 
>
> I see what you mean and am currently working on solutions on that matter: 
> https://github.com/boltex/leointeg/issues/72
>
> I feel the need to point out that if your settings are set correctly, 
> leoInteg *will* start everything automatically if your current workspace 
> includes a .Leo file. (short of actually opening the Leo file itself, for 
> which the command has to be initiated by the user)
>
> 3 options are necessary for this. (in the "leo settings" webview) "start 
> server" and "connect to server" and optionally the 'python command' 
> launch string... This should leave you in the state where the 'open file' 
> button is shown in the Leo panel.
>
> The fact that you're using a 'Project Manager' extension may come and play 
> a role in the auto-activation of leoInteg as described above. Also, there 
> are more than one extension named exactly "Project Manager" so i'm 
> wondering which one you're using... (the one by Alessandro Fragnani or 
> the one by Michael Škrášek?)
>
> I'm working on adding more features to all this to support suggestions 
> that you, and Edward made. 
>
> So far, a realistic and easy thing to implement that I can think of 
> (without too much thinking) is something like: ... it would be that Leo 
> files would have a context menu option available in the regular file 
> explorer to 'open with LeoInteg'. I dont think its possible to override the 
> fact that if you ask vscode to 'Open' a Leo file, that it would simply show 
> you the XML content as it would have done if clicked on a regular XML file. 
> but I could be wrong. 
>
> That would be in the short term,. taking more time to explorer those 
> avenues would lead to even better integration in the long run I'm sure. 
>
> And please, don't hesitate to popup with more detailed ideas ! Greatly 
> appreciated!
> --
> Félix
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 3:32:53 PM UTC-4, Brad wrote:
>>
>> Hello Félix,
>>
>> I appreciate your hard work on this project!
>>
>> My workflow in VSCode is normally as follows:
>>
>> - Store directories as projects using the Project Manager extension.
>> Directories can contain a variety of file types (Python, Jupyter, 
>> markdown, Leo, ...)
>>
>> - Open a project and click on various files in the VSCode Explorer to 
>> open them in tabs and make edits.
>> For Leo files, it would be nice if opening a Leo file from the Explorer 
>> would start all of the necessary 'machinery' (e.g., server) if it is not 
>> started already so that I can immediately see the outline and work on it.
>>
>> I suppose the idea is that, if someone has python and the leointeg 
>> extension installed, operating on leo outlines will take no more setup than 
>> editing a text file. If the procedure requires command line operations or 
>> creating special shortcuts, I am guessing that the uptake of the extension 
>> may be limited to 'experts'. 
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Brad
>>  
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 3:14:42 PM UTC-6, Félix wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Brad!
>>>
>>> Glad you like it!
>>>
>>> Knowing that other people understand and use what i'm doing is a great 
>>> motivator and a pleasant experience! So thank you for taking the time to 
>>> report your usage of leoInteg!
>>>
>>> Not knowing much about VSCode extensions, do you imagine that further 
 down the road a user of VSCode will just be able to open a .leo file and 
 have the various components start up so that manipulating Leo outlines 
 will 
 be seamless?

>>>
>>> Well for some, (I think Ar-jan made it work seamlessly under 
>>> conda/anaconda, see 
>>> https://github.com/boltex/leointeg/issues/10#issuecomment-654665776 ) 
>>> it feels 'seamless' if you've configured the python command line option to 
>>> start the server and connect automatically... I guess I could start the 
>>> leoInteg extension all the time even if there's no .leo file in the current 
>>> workspace... (there's many little details that could be fined tuned to 
>>> offer a more pleasant experience) 
>>>
>>> But I guess actually it depends what you mean exactly by 'seamless' and 
>>> 'open a leo file'. 
>>>
>>> And with that, I'm inviting you to describe what the user experience 
>>> would be in your mind, the best or nicest way to more fully integrate the 
>>> 'open a leo file' and seamless concepts, in a detailed and precise way. 
>>>
>>> People who take the time to describe very precisely how a feature could 
>>> (or should) be experienced and implemented sometimes make a project move 
>>> along faster than people who submit actual code!
>>>
>>> Thanks again and don't hesitate to address any issues at all :)
>>> --
>>> Félix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 3:52:07 PM UTC-4, Brad wrote:

 Hello Félix,

 As a regular user of Leo and VSCode, this is awesome!

 

Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Miles Fidelman]

On 7/10/20 2:34 AM, Matt Wilkie wrote:

wow. the linked Acme paper by Rob Pike is one for the permanent 
library, to be read and re-read. haven't watched the video yet, but 
now I /have/ to! Published 1994 and I feel like I'm reading something 
from 2014 or 2024 (willfully stepping over some of the more obvious 
era-specific references).


Surprised?  I mean, it sure seems like recent generations of developers 
just keep making the same old mistakes, and then ultimately reinventing 
the same stuff that folks did back in the day.  Not a profession that 
learns from the past.


Miles Fidelman



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/779c9a4a-d46a-9901-1512-4fd2d613f199%40meetinghouse.net.

Re: New features in leoInteg

[Edward K. Ream]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 3:14 AM Félix  wrote:

added some cool 'test' stuff on branch "boltex/issue75"
>

Félix and I chatted on zoom yesterday for several hours. What follows are
some items we discussed.

A preview unknown attributes, i.e. *p.v.u*, basic usage: So use a .leo file
> that maybe has some 'todo' tasks added to some nodes,  or other attributes
> added by other plugins and what not! open them with leoInteg and behold!
>

Note to others: outline nodes with uAs have greyed paper clips with (1)
after them.

also you can hover over [the nodes] too, to see objects content for now,
> obviously other UI rendering of this will come later.
>

The read only interface is fine for now.

@buttons coming soon too, goodnight for now :)
>

Great to hear!

Edward

P.S. When I load ekr.leo in the "boltex/issue75" branch I see this in the
output window:

Leo 6.3-devel, devel branch, build 06dcc4a054
2020-07-09 12:10:56 -0500
Python 3.7.6, LeoGui: dummy version
Windows 10 AMD64 (build 10.0.18362) SP0
read outline in 0.07 seconds
Plugin leo.plugins.nodetags not loaded.
Plugin leo.plugins.python_terminal not loaded.
Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\leo.repo\leo-editor\leo\core\leoPlugins.py", line 515, in
loadOnePluginHelper
__import__(moduleName)

  File "C:\leo.repo\leo-editor\leo\plugins\viewrendered3.py", line
396, in 
import leo.plugins.qt_text as qt_text

  File "C:\leo.repo\leo-editor\leo\plugins\qt_text.py", line 414, in 
class LeoLineTextWidget(QtWidgets.QFrame):

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'QFrame'
This doesn't look like a leoInteg problem. I'll look into it.

EKR

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS0yo6U-bEvQfznOXsAVnWe_%3DY8A9GxF9TiZr8UthUpe1Q%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: New features in leoInteg

[Félix]

added some cool 'test' stuff on branch "boltex/issue75" 

A preview unknown attributes, i.e. *p.v.u*, basic usage: So use a .leo file 
that maybe has some 'todo' tasks added to some nodes,  or other attributes 
added by other plugins and what not! open them with leoInteg and behold! 

also you can hover over them too, to see objects content for now, obviously 
other UI rendering of this will come later.

@buttons coming soon too, goodnight for now :)
--
Félix

On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 4:00:58 PM UTC-4, Félix wrote:
>
> Thank for your update Brad, 
>
> I see what you mean and am currently working on solutions on that matter: 
> https://github.com/boltex/leointeg/issues/72
>
> I feel the need to point out that if your settings are set correctly, 
> leoInteg *will* start everything automatically if your current workspace 
> includes a .Leo file. (short of actually opening the Leo file itself, for 
> which the command has to be initiated by the user)
>
> 3 options are necessary for this. (in the "leo settings" webview) "start 
> server" and "connect to server" and optionally the 'python command' 
> launch string... This should leave you in the state where the 'open file' 
> button is shown in the Leo panel.
>
> The fact that you're using a 'Project Manager' extension may come and play 
> a role in the auto-activation of leoInteg as described above. Also, there 
> are more than one extension named exactly "Project Manager" so i'm 
> wondering which one you're using... (the one by Alessandro Fragnani or 
> the one by Michael Škrášek?)
>
> I'm working on adding more features to all this to support suggestions 
> that you, and Edward made. 
>
> So far, a realistic and easy thing to implement that I can think of 
> (without too much thinking) is something like: ... it would be that Leo 
> files would have a context menu option available in the regular file 
> explorer to 'open with LeoInteg'. I dont think its possible to override the 
> fact that if you ask vscode to 'Open' a Leo file, that it would simply show 
> you the XML content as it would have done if clicked on a regular XML file. 
> but I could be wrong. 
>
> That would be in the short term,. taking more time to explorer those 
> avenues would lead to even better integration in the long run I'm sure. 
>
> And please, don't hesitate to popup with more detailed ideas ! Greatly 
> appreciated!
> --
> Félix
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2020 at 3:32:53 PM UTC-4, Brad wrote:
>>
>> Hello Félix,
>>
>> I appreciate your hard work on this project!
>>
>> My workflow in VSCode is normally as follows:
>>
>> - Store directories as projects using the Project Manager extension.
>> Directories can contain a variety of file types (Python, Jupyter, 
>> markdown, Leo, ...)
>>
>> - Open a project and click on various files in the VSCode Explorer to 
>> open them in tabs and make edits.
>> For Leo files, it would be nice if opening a Leo file from the Explorer 
>> would start all of the necessary 'machinery' (e.g., server) if it is not 
>> started already so that I can immediately see the outline and work on it.
>>
>> I suppose the idea is that, if someone has python and the leointeg 
>> extension installed, operating on leo outlines will take no more setup than 
>> editing a text file. If the procedure requires command line operations or 
>> creating special shortcuts, I am guessing that the uptake of the extension 
>> may be limited to 'experts'. 
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Brad
>>  
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 3:14:42 PM UTC-6, Félix wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Brad!
>>>
>>> Glad you like it!
>>>
>>> Knowing that other people understand and use what i'm doing is a great 
>>> motivator and a pleasant experience! So thank you for taking the time to 
>>> report your usage of leoInteg!
>>>
>>> Not knowing much about VSCode extensions, do you imagine that further 
 down the road a user of VSCode will just be able to open a .leo file and 
 have the various components start up so that manipulating Leo outlines 
 will 
 be seamless?

>>>
>>> Well for some, (I think Ar-jan made it work seamlessly under 
>>> conda/anaconda, see 
>>> https://github.com/boltex/leointeg/issues/10#issuecomment-654665776 ) 
>>> it feels 'seamless' if you've configured the python command line option to 
>>> start the server and connect automatically... I guess I could start the 
>>> leoInteg extension all the time even if there's no .leo file in the current 
>>> workspace... (there's many little details that could be fined tuned to 
>>> offer a more pleasant experience) 
>>>
>>> But I guess actually it depends what you mean exactly by 'seamless' and 
>>> 'open a leo file'. 
>>>
>>> And with that, I'm inviting you to describe what the user experience 
>>> would be in your mind, the best or nicest way to more fully integrate the 
>>> 'open a leo file' and seamless concepts, in a detailed and precise way. 
>>>
>>> People who take the time to describe very precisely how a feature could 
>>> (or 

Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Matt Wilkie]

wow. the linked Acme paper by Rob Pike is one for the permanent library, to 
be read and re-read. haven't watched the video yet, but now I *have* to! 
Published 1994 and I feel like I'm reading something from 2014 or 2024 
(willfully stepping over some of the more obvious era-specific references).

wow.

-matt

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"leo-editor" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/5402d8f2-300d-4f59-92ce-9fc9b8801c84o%40googlegroups.com.