Re: Wording for configuring perl in ch6

2005-04-01 Thread Joel Miller
Andrew Benton wrote:
snip
I agree, but people tell me it's wrong to start sentences with however 
and but because they're linking words
It's a perfectly legal sentence. In school, we used to call sentences 
that started like this spoilers. I don't remember school a lot, but I 
do remember working on these sentences in English. We wouldn't have done 
exercises with them if it wasn't acceptable to use them.

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Re: 64-bit LFS

2005-04-01 Thread Ken Moffat
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Bruce Dubbs wrote:

 I just got a new system for testing LFS builds.  It is a Intel 3.2GHz P4
 system with EM64T technology.  It came with RH Enterprise 3.0 for
 AMD64 and EM64T preinstalled.

8-D


 I'm not really sure what the EM64T technology does, except Googling
 around seems to indicate that there is something about allowing more
 than 4G memory (32 address bits?).  uname -a gives:


 Linux lfs5 2.4.21-15.EL #1 SMP Thu Apr 22 00:09:47 EDT 2004 x86_64
 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


 I believe there may be internal kernel differences in _how_ things
work, particularly for addressing high memory, but with any recent 2.6
kernel it should just work.  Linuxhardware did a comparison back in
February:

http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/24/1747228

Ken
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Re: Managed hotplug events

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
When the modified udev bootscript sets /sbin/udevsend as a
handler, everything is ready.
I thought the necessary changes had already got into the bootscripts 
repository.  If not, please submit a bug report to bugzilla, preferably 
with a patch too.

Thanks,
Matt.
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Re: Wording for configuring perl in ch6

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Joel Miller wrote:
We wouldn't have done 
exercises with them if it wasn't acceptable to use them.
So are you telling me that all those Visual Basic exercises I did means 
it's actually acceptable to use in the real world? :)
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LFS News Server

2005-04-01 Thread Jeremy Huntwork
Hi all:
Posting this to the main lists so that all can see. As you're likely 
aware, there has been some trouble lately with our news server here. As 
of Wednesday, we had the server back online and the mail  news gateway 
was working effectively. However, the news  mail gateway was still not 
functioning properly for all lists. In order that as few postings as 
possible are lost, at least for the time being, the news lists have been 
made read only.  If you want to post to a list, you can still do so via 
email at the corresponding list address.

Apologies for any trouble this may cause, but hopefully you'll agree 
that this is better than having lost posts that show up on the 
newslists, but are not reflected in the mailman archives or to 
email-only subscribers.

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Re: Wording for configuring perl in ch6

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
TheOldFellow wrote:
However, even in American
these are just guidelines.  But real English uses rule-breaking quite
regularly for emphasis and contrast.
LOL, thanks Richard :)  I was also taught that conjunctions shouldn't be 
used at the start of sentences.  Often, it seems the most natural way of 
 writing, as anything else often forces a break in the flow of 
sentences, or leads to overly long sentences.

Matt.
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Re: 6.1 release?

2005-04-01 Thread Jeremy Huntwork
On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 03:43:44PM -0700, Archaic wrote:
 With the exception of the kernel changing every week, this book seems
 rock solid. Add to that the 5 months since lfs-6 was release and it
 seems it might be time to cut a testing branch?
 
 Opinions?


I think it's ready to go as well. It would nicely bring it all up-to-date
and fix a few bugs, notably, the strip bug and the 2.6.8.1 cd-writing bug.
I'd like to see a release happen now.

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Re: 6.1 release?

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 04:55:18PM -0600, Randy McMurchy wrote:
I mentioned this same thing at the beginning of this month. I
have several systems running current SVN versions of LFS without
any issues I can think of.
Sorry for not replying to the OP - it got lost in the recent news-server 
 outage.  Right, let's do a 6.1.  If nothing else it'll prove to be a 
solid base off of which to base our more ambitious plans of mulit-arch 
and cross-lfs work.

I'll set up the branch tonight and call for testers and build reports 
once it's available.

Regards,
Matt.
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Re: 6.1 release?

2005-04-01 Thread Randy McMurchy
Jeremy Huntwork wrote these words on 04/01/05 11:12 CST:

 I think it's ready to go as well. It would nicely bring it all up-to-date
 and fix a few bugs, notably, the strip bug and the 2.6.8.1 cd-writing bug.
 I'd like to see a release happen now.

Probably best to delay it for a while, as a brand new release of
the bootscripts was introduced to LFS a couple of days ago. These
bootscripts probably should be tested out before releasing a
version which includes them.

Opinions?

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Re: 6.1 release?

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Randy McMurchy wrote:
Probably best to delay it for a while, as a brand new release of
the bootscripts was introduced to LFS a couple of days ago. These
bootscripts probably should be tested out before releasing a
version which includes them.
Opinions?
That's what the branch is for :)  I'm thinking of a two-week 'soak' 
period, to see if there are any issues people haven't run in to yet 
(bootscripts) or simply haven't reported.

Regards,
Matt.
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Re: 6.1 release?

2005-04-01 Thread Jeremy Huntwork
Randy McMurchy wrote:
Probably best to delay it for a while, as a brand new release of
the bootscripts was introduced to LFS a couple of days ago. These
bootscripts probably should be tested out before releasing a
version which includes them.
Opinions?
The changes to the bootscripts seemed minimal, (the new release was 
mostly just to get sysklogd back in) and as Matt just posted as well, 
likely a testing phase before release would go through. I think that 
should prove enough time to test the latest version of the scripts.

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Banned file: .exe in mail from you

2005-04-01 Thread MAILER DAEMON
BANNED FILENAME ALERT

Your message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
was blocked by our Spam Firewall. The email you sent with the following subject 
has NOT BEEN DELIVERED:

Subject: Re: Its me

An attachment in that mail was of a file type that the Spam Firewall is set to 
block.


Reporting-MTA: dns; barracuda.timesgroup.com
Received-From-MTA: smtp; barracuda.timesgroup.com ([127.0.0.1])
Arrival-Date: Fri,  1 Apr 2005 23:35:23 +0530 (IST)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; magicresume@timesgroup.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.1
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	550 5.7.1 Message content rejected, id=05659-01-11 - BANNED:
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From: lfs-dev@linuxfromscratch.org
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Subject: Re: Its me
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Iptables/Firewall

2005-04-01 Thread Andrew Benton
In response to a post on BLFS support I looked at the pages in my current version of 
BLFS (svn-20050331) and I can't see where it says to install the iptables bootscript. 
Is it just me, or is this a bug in the book?
Whilst I'm here on iptables business, in the personal firewall script it sets the rule

iptables -A OUTPUT -j ACCEPT
which as the comment says, is the same as setting the output policy to ACCEPT, but in 
the same script it also explicitly sets

iptables -P OUTPUT DROP
which sets the output policy to DROP. Is that not a contradiction? Either the policy 
is accept or it is drop. As the script is for a standalone machine, it's hard to see 
how the output policy can be set to drop. How can you filter packets coming from the 
machine? Either you trust the situations good and allow packets out, or...well I 
dread to think. Would it not make more sense to just set the one rule

iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
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6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Folks,
I've just created the 6.1 release branch.  For the incredibly impatient 
you can pull it from svn.linuxfromscratch.org/LFS/branches/6.1.  Until 
then, you'll have to wait until I render the book and post a link to it :)

The idea is that in roughly 2 weeks we'll release 6.1.  So, can everyone 
please hammer this one to death and report all problems to this list and 
preferably also to bugzilla so we can keep track of them.

Editors: Please *do not* commit to this branch unless:
a) It's an obvious typo/spelling mistake
b) It fixes a problem reported against the 6.1 branch either on the 
mailing lists or bugzilla
c) The fix has already been applied to trunk/, and therefore the fix is 
just an 'svn merge' of the exact same change back onto this branch.

Regards,
Matt.
PS: SBUs, disk usage and package tarball size reports would be most 
welcome, from anyone with the necessary scripts to record them.  I think 
the upgraded packages should be pretty accurate, but I've not done a 
full system build with them yet, so I don't think all stats are up-to-date.
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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Jeremy Huntwork
Matthew Burgess wrote:
Folks,
I've just created the 6.1 release branch.  For the incredibly impatient 
you can pull it from svn.linuxfromscratch.org/LFS/branches/6.1.  Until 
then, you'll have to wait until I render the book and post a link to it :)

The idea is that in roughly 2 weeks we'll release 6.1.  So, can everyone 
please hammer this one to death and report all problems to this list and 
preferably also to bugzilla so we can keep track of them.

Editors: Please *do not* commit to this branch unless:
a) It's an obvious typo/spelling mistake
b) It fixes a problem reported against the 6.1 branch either on the 
mailing lists or bugzilla
c) The fix has already been applied to trunk/, and therefore the fix is 
just an 'svn merge' of the exact same change back onto this branch.
Cool. Now, can we get a overview of where we're headed next?  Just would 
like to see it listed somewhere for reference. ;)

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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread M.Canales.es
Matthew Burgess escribió en lfs.dev el Viernes, 1 de Abril de 2005 20:22:

 
 Editors: Please *do not* commit to this branch unless:
 
 a) It's an obvious typo/spelling mistake
 b) It fixes a problem reported against the 6.1 branch either on the
 mailing lists or bugzilla
 c) The fix has already been applied to trunk/, and therefore the fix is
 just an 'svn merge' of the exact same change back onto this branch.

d) Is a PDF look fix ;-)

I will start that work the day 9 (I'm very busy at this moment doing the
BLFS-6.0 translation).


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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
M.Canales.es wrote:
d) Is a PDF look fix ;-)
Of course.  I will trust anything from anyone (as long as their name is 
Manuel :)) that touches stuff in the stylesheets/ directory as there is 
some serious black-magic juju going on in there :)  However, rule c) 
still applies - i.e. if the fix is common to both trunk and the 6.1 
branch, then trunk gets the fix first and it gets merged to the branch 
afterwards.

Regards,
Matt.
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[OT]Re: LFS News Server

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Jeremy Huntwork wrote:
If you want to post to a list, you can still do so via 
email at the corresponding list address.
Is there a way to configure Thunderbird to set the recipient 
automatically for me?  I prefer to use the news server, but can accept 
that keeping it read-only is probably the best way forward (at least for 
now).  If I respond to a post it wants to send to the news server 
though, and I can't see an intuitive option for overriding that.

Thanks,
Matt.
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Re: Wording for configuring perl in ch6

2005-04-01 Thread Joel Miller
Matthew Burgess wrote:
Joel Miller wrote:
We wouldn't have done exercises with them if it wasn't acceptable to 
use them.

So are you telling me that all those Visual Basic exercises I did means 
it's actually acceptable to use in the real world? :)
toucher
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Post-6.1 plans/roadmap

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Folks,
Now that the 6.1 cycle has started, here's what's on the cards for 
future LFS releases.  Whether these make it all into the same release, 
or whether they're staggered over multiple releases depends on how 
quickly they can stabilise and the amount of development and testing 
resources available.  Anyway, here's the list:

* Multi-arch support, i.e. officially supporting more than just x86.  We 
currently have a branch underway for this, masterfully headed by Jim 
Gifford.  IIRC, it's pretty stable already, so a merge could happen soon.

* Cross-build support, i.e. being able to build from non-Linux hosts, 
and building from one architecture to run on a different architecture. 
There's some notes on the Wiki for this, and Ryan Oliver's cross-lfs 
scripts act as a good starting point.  I've been promising to set up a 
branch for this stuff too...soon...honest :)

* GCC-4.0 - 4.0.0 is currently scheduled for April 15th.  There's some 
interesting changes for us (like they went and removed our beloved spec 
file!) as well as compile and execution time speedups and the usual 
bunch of bug fixes.  There's also currently issues with glibc, and in 
all likelihood BLFS will be affected by this quite a lot, as the 
compiler has once again got a bit stricter in what code it'll accept. 
Bug #1062 suggests a branch for this work, and though I'd tend to agree, 
it'll in all likelihood be a pretty short-lived one.

* Slimming down of the /etc/passwd and /etc/group files and related 
changes to the LFS book (mainly udev) and BLFS book.

If I've missed anything off this list, or you have an idea that you've 
been keeping to yourself, then now's the time to hit us with it :)

Cheers,
Matt.
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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Justin R. Knierim
Matthew Burgess wrote:
I've just created the 6.1 release branch.  For the incredibly 
impatient you can pull it from 
For testers, I just put together a 6.1-20050401 package tarball.  It 
will be available on the mirrors shortly, as soon as they all sync.

--
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Re: 64-bit LFS

2005-04-01 Thread Andy Neebel
On Mar 31, 2005 10:25 PM, Bruce Dubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I just got a new system for testing LFS builds.  It is a Intel 3.2GHz P4
 system with EM64T technology.  It came with RH Enterprise 3.0 for
 AMD64 and EM64T preinstalled.
 
 I'm not really sure what the EM64T technology does, except Googling
 around seems to indicate that there is something about allowing more
 than 4G memory (32 address bits?).  uname -a gives:
 
 Linux lfs5 2.4.21-15.EL #1 SMP Thu Apr 22 00:09:47 EDT 2004 x86_64
 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
 
 Has anyone looked at this type of system for LFS?  Since the RH version
 has a 2.4.21 kernel, I intend to use the LFS CD which does boot just fine.
 
 Any suggestions or comments will be appreciated.
 
-- Bruce
 
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EM64T is Intel's version of AMD's AMD64/x86_64 system.  They are
compatible with each other (for the most part at least).  I think that
the Intel chips don't have as much of a 64 bit instruction set, but
mostly just have the ability to handle more memory.  I may be wrong
though.  Anyways, for LFS you can either use x86, which should run
fine, or the x86_64/AMD64 info that has been popping up should work as
well if you want to build a 64bit system.

As far as kernel goes, I think there are some improvements for this
chip in 2.6 kernels over what 2.4 contains.  Again, I'm mostly
guessing off of what I recall from a long time ago.

Andy
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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Matthew Burgess wrote:
Until then, you'll have to wait until I render the book and post a link to it :)
OK, it's now rendered and available at 
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/testing/.

Regards,
Matt.
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Re: Wording for configuring perl in ch6

2005-04-01 Thread Bruce Dubbs
Matthew Burgess wrote:
I was also taught that conjunctions shouldn't be 
used at the start of sentences.  
But you can.  :)
  -- Bruce
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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Bryan Kadzban
Matthew Burgess wrote:
The idea is that in roughly 2 weeks we'll release 6.1.  So, can
everyone please hammer this one to death and report all problems to
this list and preferably also to bugzilla so we can keep track of
them.
Two issues I've seen so far:
1) The URL for less may not be right.  Less-382 is not available at
http://www.greenwoodsoftware.com/less/download.html -- I Googled and
found it at ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/less/ instead.
Less-381 was available at greenwoodsoftware.com, just not 382.
2) The note in section 5.1 about patches may be correct, but it doesn't
match what I usually do.  The sentences in question:
Warning messages about /offset/ or /fuzz/ may also be encountered
when applying a patch. Do not worry about these warnings, as the
patch was still successfully applied.
I usually ignore warnings about offsets (offsets just mean the patch's
context has moved), but I try to fix warnings about fuzz (which means
patch had to actually *discard* some lines of context to find a match).
I had one bad experience with a kernel patch that applied with fuzz a
long time ago -- the patched kernel failed to compile.  Maybe I'm the
only one, but I thought I'd mention it.
If I run into other issues, I'll post them then.  I've just finished
compiling binutils pass 1 (yes, by hand, I have a whole weekend ;-) ).


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Re: Post-6.1 plans/roadmap

2005-04-01 Thread Greg Schafer
Matthew Burgess wrote:

 * GCC-4.0 - 4.0.0 is currently scheduled for April 15th.  There's some 
 interesting changes for us (like they went and removed our beloved spec 
 file!) as well as compile and execution time speedups and the usual 
 bunch of bug fixes.  There's also currently issues with glibc, and in 
 all likelihood BLFS will be affected by this quite a lot, as the 
 compiler has once again got a bit stricter in what code it'll accept. 
 Bug #1062 suggests a branch for this work, and though I'd tend to agree, 
 it'll in all likelihood be a pretty short-lived one.

In case anyone is interested, I have a GCC4 based build working really
well. There are still a few rough edges and the GCC devs are still fixing
bugs even as we speak (GCC4 would crash while compiling Psmisc - the fix
only went into GCC CVS a few hours ago). Anyhoo, here are the details:

  http://www.diy-linux.org/pipermail/diy-linux-dev/2005-March/000491.html

Regards
Greg
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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Jeremy Huntwork
Bryan Kadzban wrote:
Matthew Burgess wrote:
The idea is that in roughly 2 weeks we'll release 6.1.  So, can
everyone please hammer this one to death and report all problems to
this list and preferably also to bugzilla so we can keep track of
them.

Two issues I've seen so far:
1) The URL for less may not be right.  Less-382 is not available at
http://www.greenwoodsoftware.com/less/download.html -- I Googled and
found it at ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/less/ instead.
Archaic pointed out to me on IRC that less-382 *is* actually on the 
greenwoodsoftware.com site, it's just not listed on the download page. 
This link should work:

http://www.greenwoodsoftware.com/less/less-382.tar.gz
But it does raise the question in my mind at least, about which link 
should be included.  Gnu.org in my experience is easy to navigate, 
consistent, fast and reliable.

What do you all think?  I've got the book ready to change if it's deemed 
that gnu.org is the better link.

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Re: 6.1 release branch

2005-04-01 Thread Archaic
On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 09:04:21PM -0500, Jeremy Huntwork wrote:
 
 http://www.greenwoodsoftware.com/less/less-382.tar.gz

The book doesn't use explicit links to packages. GNU should be used,
IMO.

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This is LFS

2005-04-01 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 diy-linux.org/pipermail/
 
 Regards
 Greg
 -- 

Excuse me, but this is the Linux From Scratch project development list.

sash

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Re: Post-6.1 plans/roadmap

2005-04-01 Thread Robert Connolly
gcc4 segfaults fairly easily still. I don't see how they're going to stabilize 
it in the next two weeks. Using -O3/-finline-functions on glibc causes a 
segfault from gcc4, its fixed in the rhl branch weeks ago but the 4.0 branch 
has yet to include the fix. Passing -funroll-loops to vim63 causes another 
segfault, this one isn't fixed yet but is related to several other bug 
reports. I'm sure there are plenty more bugs I don't know about yet.

robert
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Re: Managed hotplug events

2005-04-01 Thread Alexander E. Patrakov
(sorry, something is wrong again with the news server, thus the private CC:)

Matthew Burgess wrote:

 Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
 When the modified udev bootscript sets /sbin/udevsend as a
 handler, everything is ready.
 
 I thought the necessary changes had already got into the bootscripts
 repository.  If not, please submit a bug report to bugzilla, preferably
 with a patch too.

You are right, most of changes are already done. What remains is reported at:

http://bugs.linuxfromscratch.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1068

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Alexander E. Patrakov
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Re: Managed hotplug events

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
What remains is reported at:
http://bugs.linuxfromscratch.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1068
Many thanks Alexander.  Those don't seem too risky to get into 6.1, or 
are they?  They certainly seem much closer to bug fixes than introducing 
new functionality.

Cheers,
Matt.
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Re: Post-6.1 plans/roadmap

2005-04-01 Thread Matthew Burgess
Greg Schafer wrote:
In case anyone is interested, I have a GCC4 based build working really
well.
Did they get the fixincludes in there to allow building from a host with 
a stock glibc-2.3.4 install on it - i.e. they fix the invalid C in 
pthread.h?  If not, then we'll have to wait until at least after we have 
a suitably fixed glibc install (either via us patching it ourselves, or 
using an upstream release with the fix in it).

Cheers,
Matt.
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