Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Fri, 2010-07-02 at 11:14 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote: OTOH, my version (with X and GNOME) seems to switch to 80x25 very easily when I press CTRL-ALT-F1 through CTRL-ALT-F6, so the kernel must support _something_ along those lines. You're using the Nouveau driver? The X-only drivers like NVIDIA behave that way, but my understanding is that newer open drivers like Nouveau are a different story. Something to do with the kernel modesetting work that's been going on, I guess... Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Thu, 2010-07-01 at 17:59 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote: Apparently, it's the stated non-goal to support switching back by the authors (or at least owners) of the driver. So, unless he's willing to get the source for the driver, and rewrite portions of it himself, there's not going to be a way to go back. I don't think it's a matter of Nouveau specifically, as the kernel graphics infrastructure in general. Having any such driver loaded means using the graphics-mode console. That's the impression I got from Stephane's comments to Alex, and it makes sense to me that things work that way. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Simon Geard wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-01 at 17:59 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Apparently, it's the stated non-goal to support switching back
by the authors (or at least owners) of the driver.
So, unless he's willing to get the source for the driver, and
rewrite portions of it himself, there's not going to be a way
to go back.
I don't think it's a matter of Nouveau specifically, as the kernel
graphics infrastructure in general. Having any such driver loaded means
using the graphics-mode console. That's the impression I got from
Stephane's comments to Alex, and it makes sense to me that things work
that way.
If the driver supports changing modes, and there is an app which
can make an ioctl() call, then the change can be made. The kernel
probably won't notice the change, and it may get confused if,
while the mode is selected, some other app (like the window manager)
tries to make a call to display something. OTOH, my version (with
X and GNOME) seems to switch to 80x25 very easily when I press
CTRL-ALT-F1 through CTRL-ALT-F6, so the kernel must support
_something_ along those lines.
I'm not an expert in what the kernel does to manage the display.
Mike
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Friday 02 July 2010 12:14:51 Mike McCarty wrote: Simon Geard wrote: On Thu, 2010-07-01 at 17:59 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote: Apparently, it's the stated non-goal to support switching back by the authors (or at least owners) of the driver. So, unless he's willing to get the source for the driver, and rewrite portions of it himself, there's not going to be a way to go back. I don't think it's a matter of Nouveau specifically, as the kernel graphics infrastructure in general. Having any such driver loaded means using the graphics-mode console. That's the impression I got from Stephane's comments to Alex, and it makes sense to me that things work that way. If the driver supports changing modes, and there is an app which can make an ioctl() call, then the change can be made. The kernel probably won't notice the change, and it may get confused if, while the mode is selected, some other app (like the window manager) tries to make a call to display something. OTOH, my version (with X and GNOME) seems to switch to 80x25 very easily when I press CTRL-ALT-F1 through CTRL-ALT-F6, so the kernel must support _something_ along those lines. Hmmm. OP's problem is that his consoles are *not* 80x25; rather, they are closer to 64x250 (on his wide aspect ratio monitor). I believe he wants to change the resolution of the consoles, not X, to restore 'normal' 80x25 text mode. I have my 1280x1024 monitor 'set' to 64x160 (using an 8x16 or 9x16 font) because I want more information on the consoles. That's the mode of the console, which is independent of X. IIUC, the mode of the consoles cannot be changed after boot, though I could be wrong on this point. There *is* a parameter (vga=) that can be specified at boot or in LILO/grub that sets the console video mode during startup. But I can't recall how I did it. If he can find this parameter and set it, he may be able to set his console to display larger text. He might also be able to use 'vidmode' to set the default video mode in his linux image. There's a small chance he set the default mode when he configured his kernel. If he cannot find and set this parameter, he will be stuck with finding a larger font (perhaps 18x32) and using consolechars to set it on each of his consoles. References: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/vga-boot-modes-to-set-screen-resolution/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/lilo-vga-modes-152575/ /usr/src/linux/Documentation/svga.txt -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Simon Geard wrote:
On Wed, 2010-06-30 at 13:25 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Simon Geard wrote:
On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 10:25 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote:
You were ok up to here...
A combination of trying to simplify, and trying to remember stuff I last
played with in college, back when accelerated graphics add-on cards were
a rarity... :)
Yes, it's been a while, hasn't it :-)
That font is implemented in ROM inside the graphics controller, not
the BIOS. To get access to it, one simply has to command the controller
to use it. If one does that, the boot screen content usually magically
reappears, unless one also switches to a different RAM page for display,
or if some frame buffer mode was used during boot.
Ok, so that stuff is on the video card, not the motherboard?
It's inside the video processor itself, usually. Whether that be mounted
on the MB or on a separate card it's not part of the BIOS (EE)ROM.
Nevertheless, the point was more to do with the two ways of talking to
that controller - either by treating it as an modern NVidia card (as
Nouveau does), or as an antique VGA chip (as the BIOS does). And the
latter isn't consistent with Nouveau's purpose in providing the former.
Apparently, it's the stated non-goal to support switching back
by the authors (or at least owners) of the driver.
So, unless he's willing to get the source for the driver, and
rewrite portions of it himself, there's not going to be a way
to go back.
The kinds of technique of installing special fonts is the only
reasonably easy way forward toward his goal. Even then, the
boot messages aren't going to come back, unless he writes some
special driver code to read the RAM for the text page(s) which
contain them, and then issue commands to redraw the active
graphics page that content using the appropriate font.
None of this seems worth the effort, to me. However, it's not
my system nor my time.
Mike
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 10:25 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote: With nouveau, my boot-up goes through these basic steps: 1. The original/regular console sequence (80x25) At this point, the display is under BIOS control, running in the default text mode - the same as for GRUB, and (depending on your hardware), the BIOS setup screen. Emphasis on the BIOS bit - no video driver involved, this is entirely between the BIOS chip on the motherboard, and a counterpart on the video card. 2. Nouveau is loaded by UDEV 3. At this point, the console goes blank for a sec or so. The preceding messages are wiped out. At this point, Nouveau takes over the video card from the BIOS - think of it as rebooting the GPU. Nouveau can make far more effective use of the card, but it does so very differently. 4. The remainder of the boot-up sequence proceeds and stays in 240x67 all the way to the prompt (and beyond). 5. I can never change the 240x67 resolution of the console text mode. The key thing is that there's no such thing as a 240x67 resolution. What you have is a combination of 1920x1080 pixels, and a font size that just happens to fit 240 columns and 67 lines of text - no different from running a full-screen terminal window under X. So if you want 80x25 under Nouveau (or any other framebuffer driver), you need the kernel to use the right fonts to achieve that. The 80x25 mode you boot in is special in that regard, because that combination of pixels and fonts is implemented in the BIOS itself, as a standard feature going back 20 years. And being provided by the BIOS, it's not available if something else is driving the hardware. An aside: One thing you might have noticed under the NVIDIA binaries. If you switch from X to a console, it switches back to 80x25, since those drivers are X only. When you switch back to X, they take over again, and have to work out what state the hardware is in - occasionally you see corruption (usually in OpenGL apps), where the drivers haven't gotten it right. I've once seen black and white patterns reminiscent of a text console appearing in textures, for example, as if the BIOS had put something into video memory, and NVIDIA hadn't cleared it out again. It's a driver bug when it happens, of course, but I mention it to illustrate the conflict between BIOS and OS driving the hardware. BTW, the _exact_ steps of how to set a font in kernel which would take effect after nouveau is up, will be highly appreciated. I've not tried it myself, but take a look in menuconfig under Device Drivers - Graphics Support - Console display driver support - Select compiled-in fonts. I think that if you pick something like VGA 8x16, you'll get something like what you want. But like I said, I've not tried it. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Simon Geard wrote:
On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 10:25 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote:
You were ok up to here...
The 80x25 mode you boot in is special in that regard, because that
combination of pixels and fonts is implemented in the BIOS itself, as a
standard feature going back 20 years. And being provided by the BIOS,
it's not available if something else is driving the hardware.
That font is implemented in ROM inside the graphics controller, not
the BIOS. To get access to it, one simply has to command the controller
to use it. If one does that, the boot screen content usually magically
reappears, unless one also switches to a different RAM page for display,
or if some frame buffer mode was used during boot.
An aside: One thing you might have noticed under the NVIDIA binaries. If
you switch from X to a console, it switches back to 80x25, since those
drivers are X only. When you switch back to X, they take over again, and
have to work out what state the hardware is in - occasionally you see
Actually, they need to remember what state the controller was in.
corruption (usually in OpenGL apps), where the drivers haven't gotten it
right. I've once seen black and white patterns reminiscent of a text
console appearing in textures, for example, as if the BIOS had put
something into video memory, and NVIDIA hadn't cleared it out again.
That's certainly possible, and can be caused by the video processor
being in the right mode, but using the wrong RAM page.
It's a driver bug when it happens, of course, but I mention it to
illustrate the conflict between BIOS and OS driving the hardware.
Yep.
Mike
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Simon, Trent, Mike: Thank you very much for the rich, detailed, interesting theories and explanations about video drivers, booting, X, fonts, pixels, my boot-up component steps, etc. All this knowledge and experience is obviously worth a thread of its own, something I'd be following keenly. BUT here, as I said very clearly (hopefully) in my last post, ALL I'm interested in - for the moment - is someone who HAS nouveau active on the machine and has a boot-up experience different than mine (or even identical - the point is to compare notes and for me to steal a few ideas :): Alex (on Jun 29 at 11:26:13 AM) With nouveau, my boot-up goes through these basic steps: 1. The original/regular console sequence (80x25) 2. Nouveau is loaded by UDEV 3. At this point, the console goes blank for a sec or so. The preceding messages are wiped out. 4. The remainder of the boot-up sequence proceeds and stays in 240x67 all the way to the prompt (and beyond). 5. I can never change the 240x67 resolution of the console text mode. QUESTION Does anybody have/see a different behavior? I also appended a Note, not for people to start a dissertation on X (educational as it may be), etc., but maybe to deconfuse some nouveau people who might feel they differ with me on 4 and 5 above, just because they by-pass the text console on their way to graphics bliss. --- THAT'S ALL -- As a reminder, to me the overriding element in this debate is the last two-line E-mail from Stephane (Alex on Jun 28 02:39:05 PM): Alex: Is it possible at all? Stephane: No. --- If you exit X (i.e. graphics mode) to console, you're back to where you'd have started in the first place, still trapped in nouveau text mode, in my case 240x67. Note: I'm obviously not privy to the inner working of nouveau, but I can suspect some people may be trapped in a different text resolution, probably depending on their monitor. However, one of my basic principle in life has always been to adhere, like many others, to the well known dictum, Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them. I tend to believe Stephane, for no other reason than the fact that _he_ wrote nouveau. Thus IMHO (and experience), his No also implies that you can run (into X and use any resolution you want) but when you exit you can't hide (you're still mine, in 240x67). So this is why, hope against hope, maybe, somehow, someday I'd come across somebody who managed to escape Stephane's seemingly impenetrable enclosure in the _real_, nouveau life! Again, NOT in theory. And I understend, say, 80x25 can be (surprize, surprize) in monitor _pixels_. Thanks --- In what follows, just a few loose ends I'd like to tie, Jun 30, 2010 05:28:36 AM Simon wrote Alex said: BTW, the _exact_ steps of how to set a font in kernel which would take effect after nouveau is up, will be highly appreciated. Simon: I've not tried it myself, but take a look in menuconfig under Device Drivers - Graphics Support - Console display driver support - Select compiled-in fonts. I think that if you pick something like VGA 8x16, you'll get something like what you want. But like I said, I've not tried it. Alex: Thank you but if you take another look at one of my configs, # Console display driver support CONFIG_FONT_8x8=y CONFIG_FONT_8x16=y CONFIG_FONT_7x14=y CONFIG_FONT_10x18=y Another guiding principle of mine (to have them there - the day might come where you need them). However, I don't see it having any effect on this case (what with ... kernel vga= ..., or not) once nouveau takes over. --- Something I forgot. I did have the presence of mind once to postpone the inevitable and blacklist the nouveau. I enjoyed the 80x25 for hours on end. Disappointingly, once I went to X and back, I was dropped in 240x67 forever. (on its way to graphics, nouveau loads itseld up.) Just to repeat(?). I'm NOT against 240x67 (or even 241x66). It's just that: 1. I like 80x25, especially for (B)LFS work and in decades of use. 2. I don't like the government to tell me what's good for me. I like freedom and choice. Change scares me, no matter how obviously good it is for me (and my family). So I elect 80x25, idiotic as it might be at this day and age. 3. I used the word trap. I understand for some people it can be a tender trap. People are different. So be it. Note: This is to avoid silly comments like what's wrong with 240x67? and NOT (I emphasize NOT) for us to get sidetracked from answering MY main question above. Flames and explanations are for another thread. Just stick to my original question, to the letter, here. Thanks again, -- Alex -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Mon, 2010-06-28 at 13:28 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote: Whether I have fbcon in the kernel or as a module (with its convenient font, 80x25 full wide-screen) I cannot (or I don't know how to) change the 240x67 resolution back to what I have always used and preferred, 80x25 full wide-screen. The original NVIDIA driver does not touch my text screen so this switch to 240x67 has caught me by surprise. Right, because the NVIDIA driver is an X driver only - it has no effect when the X server isn't running. The piece of Nouveau included in the kernel isn't an X driver - it's a kernel framebuffer driver, meaning that it's not limited to X. The issue with the modes is because text resolutions like your favoured 80x25 are provided by the BIOS, the lowest-common-denominator interface that goes back to the stone age. Once Nouveau loads, it's talking to the video card natively, and those BIOS modes just aren't applicable anymore - all that matters is pixels, 1920x1080 of them in your case. The right fonts can emulate that 80x25, but nothing will actually put you in that mode until the BIOS is driving the video card again. What exactly is your problem with running in the high-res mode? If it's just that the font size is too small, I'd have to repeat Stephane's suggestion of selecting a different console font (somewhere in the kernel config, I think). Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Jun 29, 07:40:18 AM, Simon wrote: What exactly is your problem with running in the high-res mode? If it's just that the font size is too small, I'd have to repeat Stephane's suggestion of selecting a different console font (somewhere in the kernel config, I think). I'm confused. So before we go to the _exact_ steps of how to set a font in kernel which would take effect after nouveau is up, I want to establish a common ground. With nouveau, my boot-up goes through these basic steps: 1. The original/regular console sequence (80x25) 2. Nouveau is loaded by UDEV 3. At this point, the console goes blank for a sec or so. The preceding messages are wiped out. 4. The remainder of the boot-up sequence proceeds and stays in 240x67 all the way to the prompt (and beyond). 5. I can never change the 240x67 resolution of the console text mode. QUESTION Does anybody have/see a different behavior? NOTE I can imagine people going directly to X (graphics mode). In that case, to stay with me on step 4 above, just come down in console text mode for a moment or so (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace or whatever) and check the ensuing text resolution. BTW, I'm interesting in the answer to my question above more than in comments to this note :) BTW, the _exact_ steps of how to set a font in kernel which would take effect after nouveau is up, will be highly appreciated. Thanks, -- Alex -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
With nouveau, my boot-up goes through these basic steps: My setup is KMS with intel hardware. 1. The original/regular console sequence (80x25) 2. Nouveau is loaded by UDEV 3. At this point, the console goes blank for a sec or so. The preceding messages are wiped out. 4. The remainder of the boot-up sequence proceeds and stays in 240x67 all the way to the prompt (and beyond). 5. I can never change the 240x67 resolution of the console text mode. QUESTION Does anybody have/see a different behavior? This is pretty much what I see, but I had to add fbcon to /etc/sysconfig/modules [...] BTW, the _exact_ steps of how to set a font in kernel which would take effect after nouveau is up, will be highly appreciated. I have not played with this since the initial setup, but here goes. cat /etc/sysconfig/console # Begin /etc/sysconfig/console KEYMAP=us FONT=default8x16 LOGLEVEL=1 UNICODE=true #End /etc/sysconfig/console and to change the fonts you can use setfont on any of the fonts in /lib/kbd/consolefonts As was already mentioned, I believe there are kernel config options, too, but I'm afraid I have not found time to play around with them; it's pretty rare I find myself on a VT other than 7. -- Regards, Trent. -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
al...@verizon.net wrote:
On Jun 29, 07:40:18 AM, Simon wrote:
I'm confused. So before we go to the _exact_ steps of
Yes. You are conflating almost unrelated things.
I'm not a specialist on that particular video processor,
so take what I write here with a little grain of salt
here and there. However, I've written video drivers for
MSDOS which handled many of the same kinds of modes
for (no longer produced) video boards.
how to set a font in kernel which would take effect after
nouveau is up, I want to establish a common ground.
With nouveau, my boot-up goes through these basic steps:
1. The original/regular console sequence (80x25)
Yes, if that's what you have selected. Some BIOS used to
allow boot in different modes. I haven't seen that in modern
ones, however.
2. Nouveau is loaded by UDEV
This I don't know about, but it makes sense.
3. At this point, the console goes blank for a sec or so.
The preceding messages are wiped out.
Not quite. The video processor has been commanded to switch
to a graphics mode, and is now using different RAM. Usually,
the previous messages are still held in the character mode RAM.
If you issue a command to the video processor to switch back
to character mode, then the original text will probably reappear.
4. The remainder of the boot-up sequence proceeds and stays
in 240x67 all the way to the prompt (and beyond).
5. I can never change the 240x67 resolution of the console
text mode.
That's a very strong statement. If your driver permits it,
then there's nothing I can think of about the hardware
which wouldn't do exactly what you seem to want. Temper my
statement, because I'm not expert in that exact hardware.
As a test, try booting up KNOPPIX, and then shutting down.
I trow you'll see the original text boot stuff reappear
on your screen after X shuts down.
QUESTION
Does anybody have/see a different behavior?
NOTE
I can imagine people going directly to X (graphics mode).
X and graphics mode have nothing to do with each other,
except that X expects the video driver to be able to
execute graphics commands. IOW, one can have graphics
mode without X, but not the other way 'round. The BIOS
is capable of displaying text on the screen, even when
the display is in (certain) graphics modes.
One could presumably boot to MSDOS, select a graphics mode,
and then use loadlin to boot Linux with an initial graphics
mode. X requires a boatload of other stuff to be loaded
and running before it can go. That's why you don't see
X used during boot. It sits on top of the kernel, so the
kernel can't use it during bootstrap. X also wants a video
driver installed. So, X can't be loaded until boot is
actually over, and init is running, I think. Someone may
want to correct me on that; I'm not an expert in Linux
boot sequence. Howver, believe I've not seen X started until after
init was running, and boot is, technically, over, and all
we're doing is loading applications. Some may want to
niggle about precisely when boot is over, but in my mind,
once the kernel is running, and we could now produce a
login prompt, then boot is over, and we're just loading
apps and initializing optional peripherals used by them.
This is somewhat happens when one uses a frame buffer mode
during boot. There is an initial graphics mode selected
for the display, which is then used pretty much just to
display text (though some use a little splash at the
start with a graphic in it, which then gets scrolled
off).
In that case, to stay with me on step 4 above, just come
down in console text mode for a moment or so
(Ctrl-Alt-Backspace or whatever) and check the ensuing
text resolution.
Again, you seem to be conflating X with graphics mode.
Graphics mode is a hardware setting. X is a software
package. The driver sits under X and on top of the
hardware. When X wants to issue a command to the hardware,
it does so by making calls to the driver, via an API.
The driver interprets the request, and issues actual
hardware commands to the video processor. The exact commands
to the hardware are hardware specific, which is why
you need different drivers for different video processors.
BTW, I'm interesting in the answer to my question above
more than in comments to this note :)
I don't understand that statement. I've tried to address
misconceptions on your part in this reply.
BTW, the _exact_ steps of how to set a font in kernel which
would take effect after nouveau is up, will be highly
appreciated.
Thanks,
-- Alex
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Hi Aleksandar, Andy, Neil, Simon and all the other great participants in this thread: Jun 22, 11:54:28 AM, Alex wrote: At that point (nouveau Udev load? ), the screen goes blank for a split second then continues OK all the way to the console prompt. Note: The screen resolution switches from 80x25 (i.e. VGA Text, as they say), to something like 240x67 (1920x1080? ) - full widescreen - after the momentary blank. I'm not worried too much though (I prefer 80x25 in text mode). I think I can fix that somehow with local means. Maybe even the quick blank in the process. then on Jun 23, 09:42:48 AM, Alex added: I have until the autumnal equinox to try to fix the annoyance of nouveau's boot-up switching to HiDef on me. --- Boy, was I wrong! (or, as they say concisely, I misspoke). I wrote to Stephane Marchesin, the author of the nouveau driver, directly (his profile: icps.u-strasbg.fr/~marchesin/). Stephane is a very nice guy; he responded promptly to my two E-mails. In short, the exchange consisted of four E-mails: 1. Alex --- Stephane 2. Stephane --- Alex 3. Alex --- Stephane 4. Stephane --- Alex In the following, the gory details. I separated the four contents by a N. ==...== line. For accuracy, I left everything intact; only the salutations are gone. 1. == Jun 25, 01:02:46 PM, Alex wrote: I have a problem, maybe you can help me. My boot-up proceeds in the regular VESA (VGA) text, 80x25 to the point where nouveau is loaded by Udev. At that point the screen goes blank for a split second and then continues OK all the way to the console prompt. Unfortunately for me, the resolution switches to a HiDef 240x67, full wide-screen. I'd rather have stayed in 80x25; I don't know of a way to switch my text console back to it. DETAILS Screen display after the blank, all the way to the prompt: [drm] nouveau :01:00.0: 0xB30A: parsing output script 1 [drm] nouveau :01:00.0: 0x849D: parsing clock script 0 Console: switching to colour frame buffer device 240x67 fb0: nouveaufb frame buffer device registered panic notifier [drm] Initialized nouveau 0.0.16 20090420 for :01:00.0 on minor 0 SYSTEM i686-pc-linux-gnu, 2.6.34, udev-156, (B)LFS NVIDIA GeForce 8300GS, 128MB, GDDR2, PCIe-2.0x16 Samsung SyncMaster 2494 LCD, 60Hz, DVI-DVI connection. ASUS P5E-VM HDMI, intel Core2Duo e8...@3.0ghz. G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000). 2. == Jun 25, 04:38:24 PM, Stephane wrote: On Jun 25, 10:02, Alex wrote: I have a problem, maybe you can help me. My boot-up proceeds in the regular VESA (VGA) text, 80x25 to the point where nouveau is loaded by Udev. At that point the screen goes blank for a split second and then continues OK all the way to the console prompt. Unfortunately for me, the resolution switches to a HiDef 240x67, full wide-screen. I'd rather have stayed in 80x25; I don't know of a way to switch my text console back to it. It's not possible with nouveau (or any other KMS driver for that matter). Settting the VGA text mode would stomp over the card state in a way that we don't handle. Depending on what your goal is, you may want to use a different resolution for your vgacon, or a different fbcon font. 3. == Jun 26, 01:45:41 PM, Alex wrote: On Jun 25, 04:38:24 PM, Stephane wrote: Depending on what your goal is, you may want to use a different resolution for your vgacon, or a different fbcon font. As I said in my original E-mail (On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:02): Unfortunately for me, the resolution switches to a HiDef 240x67, full wide-screen [on nouveau load]. I'd rather have stayed in 80x25; I don't know of a way to switch my text console back to it. So, to repeat, my goal is to go back to 80x25 full wide-screen once nouveau is active (loaded). Is it possible at all? Whether I have fbcon in the kernel or as a module (with its convenient font, 80x25 full wide-screen) I cannot (or I don't know how to) change the 240x67 resolution back to what I have always used and preferred, 80x25 full wide-screen. The original NVIDIA driver does not touch my text screen so this switch to 240x67 has caught me by surprise. I don't know what vgacon could do for me in this respect. I've always used it to read the whole boot-up screen text. Now the boot-up text is wiped out at the point nouveau loads and switches the console screen to a different resolution (i.e., from 80x25 to 240x67). 4. == Jun 26, 04:38:03 PM, Stephane wrote: On Jun 26, 10:45, Alex wrote: Jun 25, 04:38:24 PM, Stephane wrote: Depending on what your goal is, you may want to use a different resolution for your vgacon, or a different fbcon font. As I said in my original E-mail (On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 10:49 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote: How come the original NVIDIA driver, after all these ugly and hostile parameter settings I threw at it, it was left still standing at the end of the day? The one thing the nVidia driver is supposedly intolerant of is framebuffer drivers - I'd guess it won't mix well with using Nouveau to get a high-res console. Barring that, it uses so little of the standard graphics stack that as long as nothing actively interferes, it's hard to misconfigure. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Hi
I played some more with the parameters you suggested be
changed in order to finally reach a config that would work with
nouveau and GeForce 8300GS on my system.
In the final analysis it seems that only two (2) are CRITICAL:
DD Graphics support Console display driver support
{*} Framebuffer Console support (was {M} originally)
NEEDS TO STAY SET ({*})
DD Graphics support
[*] Laptop Hybrid Grapics (sic) - GPU switching support (was [ ] originally)
NEEDS TO STAY SET ([*])
Many thanks Aleksandar.
I always felt that my midtower with its USB keyboard mouse
and the 24in display had a laptop flavor to it.
Like I said, we're in Staging. And 2.6.34.1 has by far the
relatively longest gestation time in recent memory.
All the other crazy parameters that have accumulated on my
machine over the years can be anything in this context.
As proof, I'm attaching the latest working config for perusal.
It was created by starting with the most recent, non-nouveau,
non-8300GS config and changing only the two params above
(and, of course, the setting of nouveau in Staging).
I'm at peace with myself now. I have until the autumnal equinox
to try to fix the annoyance of nouveau's boot-up switching to HiDef on me.
I'll probably be back with details then.
Thanks and Best wishes,
-- Alex
BTW, Simon, thanks for your thoughts on my existential question.
config.bz2
Description: Binary data
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Re: Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Mon, 2010-06-21 at 11:21 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote: I'm attaching the compressed copy of the new 'config'. I notice CONFIG_DRM_I915 is set, as a module. Shouldn't matter in theory since you presumably don't have Intel graphics hardware as well as NVidia, but probably worth disabling it anyway. Also, you have CONFIG_FIRMWARE_EDID=y, which isn't set on my system. Might be relevant, since while the docs say it should be safe to enable, they note: If you experience extremely long delays while booting before you get something on your display, try setting this to N. So, probably worth turning it off, see if that makes a difference. From the docs, it sounds like it's an option you enable to work around problem hardware, isn't needed by the majority, and might potentially be causing problems. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Jun 21, 2010 06:11:14 PM, Andrew Benton wrote.
Jun 21, 2010 08:54:20 PM, Aleksandar Kuktin wrote.
Jun 22, 2010 04:25:40 AM, Simon Geard wrote.
Hi guys,
The nouveau now works !! Boot-up, KDE, Fluxbox.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Details:
The boot-up proceeds to the point it would go blank permanently before.
At that point (nouveau Udev load? ), the screen goes
blank for a split second then continues OK all the way to the console prompt.
Note: The screen resolution switches from 80x25
(i.e. VGA Text, as they say), to something like
240x67 (1920x1080? ) - full widescreen - after the momentary blank.
I'm not worried too much though (I prefer 80x25 in text mode).
I think I can fix that somehow with local means.
Maybe even the quick blank in the process.
Thoughts:
It'll take a while for me to sort this all out.
I want to see which parameter(s) was the clincher (for
the advancement of science).
I'm doubly glad it worked finally. Another set or two
of new parameters to disable, I'd've been left with
an empty 'config' file! :).
I'll come back in a day or two with my final conclusions.
In the meantime, IF _you_ guys are still thinking about this
episode at all, maybe you could reserve a minute or so
to the existential question:
How come the original NVIDIA driver, after all these ugly
and hostile parameter settings I threw at it, it was left still
standing at the end of the day?
--
For the record, a summary of the three posts.
Note: the new setting of the respective parameter is shown
in square brackets
Aleksandar Kuktin
I went over the settings, and I have a few suspicious things.
First off, do you load the framebuffer console module? The one in
drivers=Graphics support=Console display driver support, AKA
FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE ?? This is an absolutely necessary module.
[ {*} Framebuffer Console support (was M) ]
The other module I am interested in is VIDEO_OUTPUT_CONTROL ?
[ {*} Lowlevel video output switch controls (was M) ]
Third you might want to try with FB_TILEBLITTING, in
drivers=Graphics support=Support for frame buffer devices
[ [*] Enable Tile Blitting Support (was [ ]) ]
Also, you might want to explore VGA_SWITCHEROO (not too much logic in
that, I just have it compiled in, it's a shot).
[ [*] Laptop Hybrid Grapics - GPU switching support (was [ ]) ]
Turns out VESA really isn't the problem - I just discovered I had it
compiled right in all this time. :)
--
Andrew Benton
I can't see anything obviously wrong. I don't like the look of these
options:
CONFIG_AGP_INTEL=m
[ Intel 440LX/BX/GX, I8xx and E7x05 chipset support (was M) ]
CONFIG_AGP_SIS=m
[ SiS chipset support (was M) ]
CONFIG_DRM_I915=m
[ i915 driver (was M) ]
---
Simon Geard
I notice CONFIG_DRM_I915 is set, as a module. Shouldn't matter in theory
since you presumably don't have Intel graphics hardware as well as
NVidia, but probably worth disabling it anyway.
[ see Andrew above]
Also, you have CONFIG_FIRMWARE_EDID=y, which isn't set on my system.
Might be relevant, since while the docs say it should be safe to enable,
they note:
If you experience extremely long delays while booting before you get
something on your display, try setting this to N.
So, probably worth turning it off, see if that makes a difference. From
the docs, it sounds like it's an option you enable to work around
problem hardware, isn't needed by the majority, and might potentially be
causing problems.
[ [ ] Enable firmware EDID (was [*]) ]
---
Again, thanks a lot!
-- Alex
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 18:04 -0500, al...@verizon.net wrote: I bzip2'ed the file, so let's see if 11702 bytes can now sneak below the 50 KB limit :). BTW, 'config' is for a system of this nature: ASUS P5E-VM HDMI, intel Core2Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz. G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000). NVIDIA GeForce 8300GS 512MB 256-bit GDDR2 PCIe-2.0x16 BIOS 60.86.45.00.26, Samsung SyncMaster 2494 60Hz, DVI connection. Your system and config seems broadly similar to mine, so I don't see an obvious reason why mine works and your doesn't. The only thing that particularly stands out is that you have all the DRM stuff built as modules, where I have it built-in. If you've not already done so, perhaps that'd be worth trying? Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On 21/06/10 00:04, al...@verizon.net wrote: I bzip2'ed the file, so let's see if 11702 bytes can now sneak below the 50 KB limit :). CONFIG_FB_UVESA=m CONFIG_FB_VESA=y Device Drivers --- Graphics support --- -*- Support for frame buffer devices --- Disable everything on the Frame buffer menu. I think the vesa driver and nouveau are in conflict, that is why you're getting a blank console. Andy -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On 21/06/10 17:21, al...@verizon.net wrote: I did find your parameters in Device Drivers Graphics support: Userspace VESA VGA graphics support [ ] VESA VGA graphics support I disabled them as shown. Alas, still the same problem with the recompiled kernel (the video dies at the end of the boot-up sequence). Doh, how disappointing I'm attaching the compressed copy of the new 'config'. I can't see anything obviously wrong. I don't like the look of these options: CONFIG_AGP_INTEL=m CONFIG_AGP_SIS=m CONFIG_DRM_I915=m But I'm clutching at straws now. Sorry Andy -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:21:27 -0500 (CDT) al...@verizon.net wrote: Jun 21, 2010 10:52:35 AM, lfs-support@linuxfromscratch.org wrote: On my 'make menuconfig' Device DriversGraphics support [*] Support for frame buffer devices screen this is all I have: --- Support for frame buffer devices [*] Enable firmware EDID [ ] Framebuffer foreign endianness support --- -*- Enable Video Mode Handling Helpers [ ] Enable Tile Blitting Support *** Frame buffer hardware drivers *** Cirrus Logic support Permedia2 support None of the above seem to control yours, CONFIG_FB_UVESA=m CONFIG_FB_VESA=y Could these parameters be one of those automatics? -- Hi Andy, I did find your parameters in Device Drivers Graphics support: Userspace VESA VGA graphics support [ ] VESA VGA graphics support I disabled them as shown. Alas, still the same problem with the recompiled kernel (the video dies at the end of the boot-up sequence). I'm attaching the compressed copy of the new 'config'. Regards, -- Alex Okey, I went over the settings, and I have a few suspicious things. First of, do you load the framebuffer console module? The one in drivers=Graphics support=Console display driver support, AKA FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE ?? This is an absolutely necessary module. The other module I am interested in is VIDEO_OUTPUT_CONTROL ? Third you might want to try with FB_TILEBLITTING, in drivers=Graphics support=Support for frame buffer devices Also, you might want to explore VGA_SWITCHEROO (not too much logic in that, I just have it compiled in, it's a shot). Turns out VESA really isn't the problem - I just discovered I had it compiled right in all this time. :) -AKuktin -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On 20/06/10 00:27, al...@verizon.net wrote: hi Neil, Andy, Simon and other (B)LFS would-be participants: This is probably my last installment on this nouveau driver problem thread. Why? Are you giving up? 2. I'm willing to work with a nouveau specialist to help them solve this problem if anybody is interested. Can we see your kernel config? Could you put it up somewhere like pastebin and post a link so we can see please? Andy -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:21:38 +0100 Andrew Benton b3n...@gmail.com wrote: 2. I'm willing to work with a nouveau specialist to help them solve this problem if anybody is interested. Can we see your kernel config? Could you put it up somewhere like pastebin and post a link so we can see please? Andy Yes, please? I've been using nouveau for months now (even before it got into staging) and had reasonably little problems with it (apart from Gallium 3D stuff). I'd really like to see the config, if you can upload it. -AKuktin -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Jun 20, 2010 06:21:59 AM, Andrew Benton wrote Jun 20, 2010 08:51:09 AM, Aleksandar Kuktin wrote Can we see your 'config' file? Sure. I'll try to attach it. If you do not get it point me to some other way to pass it along. ... Unfortunately (could my nouveau driver be jinxed? :): Jun 20, 2010 05:36:11 PM, lfs-support-boun...@linuxfromscratch.org wrote: Your mail to 'lfs-support' with the subject Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Message body is too big: 54361 bytes with a limit of 50 KB Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Jun 20, 2010 06:21:59 AM, Andrew Benton wrote Jun 20, 2010 08:51:09 AM, Aleksandar Kuktin wrote Can we see your 'config' file? Sure. I'll try to attach it. If you do not get it point me to some other way to pass it along. Back at the ranch ... Jun 20, 2010 05:36:11 PM, lfs-support-boun...@linuxfromscratch.org wrote: Message body is too big: 54361 bytes with a limit of 50 KB I bzip2'ed the file, so let's see if 11702 bytes can now sneak below the 50 KB limit :). BTW, 'config' is for a system of this nature: ASUS P5E-VM HDMI, intel Core2Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz. G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000). NVIDIA GeForce 8300GS 512MB 256-bit GDDR2 PCIe-2.0x16 BIOS 60.86.45.00.26, Samsung SyncMaster 2494 60Hz, DVI connection. Note: the RivaTuner program shows the card with only 128MB DDR2 and 64-bit G86. Thank you for your interest, -- Alex config.bz2 Description: Binary data -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
Jun 18, 2010 12:41:04 PM, Andrew Benton wrote
me his comments on the subject.
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your message. As I told Neil below,
I'm hard at work at going over some log datails, etc. now.
(I was hoping against hope Neil's interesting workaround
will bring me afloat, but no cigar).
I'll get back with details and comments on your very
interesting words as soon as I have something more substantial,
Thanks again.
Jun 17, 2010 11:13:09 PM, neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
(EXCERPTS)
[We tried to] resolve this problem on a 'similar' system
[experiencing] the console screen blanking and not returning.
It wasn't the driver {1}, wasn't parameters, wasn't anything
[we] could figure out.
He was new to the system and Linux, but had probably been around
computers for 40-50 years {2}.
He found the solution himself:
setterm -powersave off -blank 0
Figure out a way to have the system run it during boot.
It solved his inexplicable problem and may well solve yours.
Hi Neal,
Thank you very much for your comments and willingness to help.
Unfortunately, the _workaround_ has not worked on _my_ system.
I even tried the formula after the system was fully up at the
command prompt (the system does come up all the way; you can
work blindly - login, setterm, etc.)
A few humble comments keyed to your words above.
{1}. It _must_ be the driver in the final analysis.
- Once the driver (and only the driver) is no longer
enabled in the kernel set-up, things return to normal.
So, 'setterm', if anything, sounds like a workaround here.
Anyway, thanks and congratulations for your modesty and
generosity in trying to help your friend and me.
- As an aside, I've been working on analyzing some logs to
find out where and maybe why this nouveau, staging driver is
handling my system (video card, monitor, etc.) so clumsily.
My (B)LFS (and Windows) machine (including the wide-screen
monitor) is pretty standard and relatively modern.
{2}. I assume your expert friend was into Unix in his
computer-rich life. 'setterm' with its parameters looks like
a typical Unix-like (and -originated) command.
Many thanks,
-- Alex
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Friday 18 June 2010 13:38:39 al...@verizon.net wrote:
Jun 18, 2010 12:41:04 PM, Andrew Benton wrote
me his comments on the subject.
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your message. As I told Neil below,
I'm hard at work at going over some log datails, etc. now.
(I was hoping against hope Neil's interesting workaround
will bring me afloat, but no cigar).
I'll get back with details and comments on your very
interesting words as soon as I have something more substantial,
Thanks again.
Jun 17, 2010 11:13:09 PM, neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
(EXCERPTS)
[We tried to] resolve this problem on a 'similar' system
[experiencing] the console screen blanking and not returning.
It wasn't the driver {1}, wasn't parameters, wasn't anything
[we] could figure out.
He was new to the system and Linux, but had probably been around
computers for 40-50 years {2}.
He found the solution himself:
setterm -powersave off -blank 0
Figure out a way to have the system run it during boot.
It solved his inexplicable problem and may well solve yours.
Hi Neal,
Thank you very much for your comments and willingness to help.
Unfortunately, the _workaround_ has not worked on _my_ system.
I even tried the formula after the system was fully up at the
command prompt (the system does come up all the way; you can
work blindly - login, setterm, etc.)
OK. So it is not a simple I'm sleeping and I can't wake up! problem. This is
about where you discard all notions of 'how it should work' and ask, How can
I see what it is really doing, since it doesn't seems to be do what is
expected? It almost sounds like the system has found another video card to
use. If the mainboard has a video card on it, try connecting to that one. If
the video card has two ports, try using the other one (you might need a
digital/analog display adapter). Try using a different video card. Eventually
you should find working video, which will be a strong clue.
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Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On 18/06/10 20:00, Neal Murphy wrote: OK. So it is not a simple I'm sleeping and I can't wake up! problem. This is about where you discard all notions of 'how it should work' and ask, How can I see what it is really doing, since it doesn't seems to be do what is expected? It almost sounds like the system has found another video card to use. If the mainboard has a video card on it, try connecting to that one. No, you're not helping. His video card need some firmware to work with the nouveau driver. He needs to either put the firmware in /lib/firmware or compile it into the kernel. If he read the syslog from the failed boot he would see the kernel complaining about the lack of firmware. Without the firmware his video card can't bring up the framebuffer. Andy -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Problem installing the nouveau driver
Hello,i686-pc-linux-gnu, 2.6.34, udev-156, (B)LFSNVidia GeForce 8300GSI've been trying to install/run the nouveau "nouveau"kernel driver, to avoid installing the NVIDIA driverafter each kernel upgrade.PROBLEM:So far, if on the "nouveau" kernel, I lose the video (the screen goes blank) on boot-up to command mode.A few (hopefully) relevant DETAILS:1. In '.config' I haveDevice Drivers Staging drivers M Nouveau (nVidia) cardsNote: It can only be M, * is not possible.2. On the only cyberpage I found helpful,at en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Nouveau,they talk aboutDevice Drivers Graphics support * Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI support),while my system accepts this parameter only as M.3. If I load "nouveau" manually (from a kernel without it - i.e.that doesn't experience the blank screen! ), I get[]$ modprobe -v nouveauinsmod /lib/modules/2.6.34/kernel/drivers/i2c/algos/i2c-algo-bit.koinsmod /lib/modules/2.6.34/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/drm.ko[drm] Initialized drm 1.1.0 20060810insmod /lib/modules/2.6.34/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/drm_kms_helper.koinsmod /lib/modules/2.6.34/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/ttm.koinsmod /lib/modules/2.6.34/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nouveau.ko[]$ lsmodModule Size Used bynouveau 391883 0ttm 30761 1 nouveaudrm_kms_helper 17119 1 nouveaudrm 106969 3 nouveau,ttm,drm_kms_helperi2c_algo_bit 3514 1 nouveau4. I played with forcing "nouveau" load early in the gamein '/etc/sysconfig/modules', to no avail.---I know I'll have the work cut up for me, once I start thinking about Xorg,what with creating a "nouveau_drv.so", but for the time being all I wantis to eliminate the blank screen on boot-up to command mode soI can have a fighting chance.I'd appreciate any helpful comments.Thanks,-- Alex -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: Problem installing the nouveau driver
On Thursday 17 June 2010 21:29:35 al...@verizon.net wrote: Hello, i686-pc-linux-gnu, 2.6.34, udev-156, (B)LFS NVidia GeForce 8300GS I've been trying to install/run the nouveau nouveau kernel driver, to avoid installing the NVIDIA driver after each kernel upgrade. PROBLEM: So far, if on the nouveau kernel, I lose the video (the screen goes blank) on boot-up to command mode. I recently was of absolutely no use helping someone resolve just this problem on a 'similar' system. I did get him set up so the system would run fsck on upon powerdown on his command--reboot, fsck, powerdown--and never any other time, but the console screen blanking and not returning was beyond my ken. It wasn't the driver, wasn't parameters, wasn't anything I or a few others could figger out. He was new to the system and Linux, but had probably been around computers for 40-50 years, so wasn't a helpless noob. He found the solution himself: setterm -powersave off -blank 0 If setterm doesn't exist, find and build it. :) Then figure out a way to have the system run it during boot. It solved his inexplicable problem and may well solve yours. N -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
