Re: priority in install of packages
On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 12:23 -0400, Neal Murphy wrote: To be absolutely clear, and to directly answer the question, yes, it is a problem because Expect will fail to compile if the TCL programs and libraries are not found. Or worse, will find the chapter 5 versions of those programs libraries in /tools, hardcode references to them, and break one /tools is deleted in the future. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 21:45 +0430, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh wrote: In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package: The appendix is for information only. When it comes to installing packages, follow the *exact* instructions in the main book, in the *exact* order they're in. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
I'm in top of Chapter 5. Constructing a Temporary System.At this chapter some package is introduced that we must compile them.My question is: Do they have Chapter priority in compile same listed in chapter?For example if i compile package 5.12.expet before 5.11.tcl, is it problem? It's possible, but without trying it it's hard to know for sure. The simplest, safest way to proceed is to simply follow the book, compiling the packages in the order the book gives you. Andy The order of the packages is carefully crafted to make sure prerequisites are built in the correct order. See the appendix for each packages dependencies. For instance, expect requires tcl. When we had a choice for the next package, it is added alphabetically, but there is really no reason to deviate from the order given in the book. You may, of course, do what pleases you, but be prepared to start over if it doesn't work. -- Bruce I think there is an assumption being made that everybody around the world would automagically relate to books the way we native English speakers do. There are people who read books back to front. moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org It's clear Mohsen is not a native English speaker, and a minimal knowledge of world history suggests (without doing a host lookup) that pahlevanzadeh.org is a Persian/Iranian site. Obviously, because he asked the question, the book isn't clear enough to non-English speakers about the sequence of building. Saying Follow book, book good isn't helpful when one doesn't grasp, for cultural or linguistic reasons, what you mean by follow. -- Paul Rogers paulgrog...@fastmail.fm http://www.xprt.net/~pgrogers/ Rogers' Second Law: Everything you do communicates. (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 22:54 +1200, Simon Geard wrote: On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 21:45 +0430, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh wrote: In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package: The appendix is for information only. When it comes to installing packages, follow the *exact* instructions in the main book, in the *exact* order they're in. Simon. Dear Simon, Do you mean i follow exact same book 5-1 5-2 and 5-end ? --Mohsen -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
Paul Rogers wrote:
I think there is an assumption being made that everybody around the
world would automagically relate to books the way we native English
speakers do. There are people who read books back to front.
Not by me. My presumption was that he did have a problem knowing
what the different entries in the appendix exactly meant. That's
why I provided an explanation for one of them. I speak three languages
tolerably, myself, and English is not my first language (though my
first language is a european one, so left-to-right). At one time
I could somewhat get by in Arabic.
In any case, everyone who reads English has access to a dictionary,
and so can look up the word appendix. Be that as it may, he's
specifically mentioned that he knows he's deviating from the established
order.
moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org It's clear Mohsen is not a native English
speaker, and a minimal knowledge of world history suggests (without
Yes.
doing a host lookup) that pahlevanzadeh.org is a Persian/Iranian
site. Obviously, because he asked the question, the book isn't clear
enough to non-English speakers about the sequence of building. Saying
That I don't grasp. Anyone who reads English knows what direction
to read a book.
Follow book, book good isn't helpful when one doesn't grasp, for
cultural or linguistic reasons, what you mean by follow.
Agreed. That's why I presented an analysis of one of the appendix
entries.
Mike
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Re: priority in install of packages
Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh wrote:
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 22:54 +1200, Simon Geard wrote:
On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 21:45 +0430, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh wrote:
In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package:
The appendix is for information only. When it comes to installing
packages, follow the *exact* instructions in the main book, in the
*exact* order they're in.
Simon.
Dear Simon,
Do you mean i follow exact same book 5-1 5-2 and 5-end ?
You need to download a copy of the book from the web site,
so it doesn't change as you read it. You need to start at
the beginning of the book, and follow each instruction as
you encounter it. I'm reluctant to say follow it exactly
since some of them are not exact instructions. For example,
the instruction to partition the disc drive. No one can
put _exact_ instructions on how to partition your disc,
and different people have different ideas about how exactly
a disc should be set up.
That said, you need to start at the beginning, and perform
each step in the order you encounter it as you read,
and conform as closely as possible to the literal content
you read.
You need to do this each time you build, until you become
familiar enough with the process to know where, and by
how much, it is safe to deviate from the instructions
as they are written.
If you don't do that, then you are almost surely going to
encounter a problem somewhere along the way, likely requiring
you to start over from the beginning.
Mike
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Re: priority in install of packages
On 16 June 2010 17:43, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org wrote: Dear Simon, Do you mean i follow exact same book 5-1 5-2 and 5-end ? --Mohsen I'm not Simon, but I'll answer anyway (even though Mike has probably answered most of the points while I was thinking about it). Begin at chapter 1 (section 1.1 - How To Build An LFS System). First, *read* each page in your browser, then click on the next link. Do this until you get to section 9 (The End). By doing this, you have read everything in the book before you start, so you'll have some idea how you are going to build the new system,. Then if you haven't already done so, download *all* the packages and patches, Then start again, but this time follow all the instructions, for each package in the book's order. If this goes well, you will end up with a minimal LFS system. You need to understand how the book is going to tell you build this system (for example, there is important information such as delete the source (and -build) directories after you have installed the package. The versions of the packages in a released version of the book are believed to work well together, and all of them are required. For your first build you should use the LFS-6.6 book. ĸen -- After tragedy, and farce, OMG poneys! -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On 15/06/10 10:14, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh wrote: Dear all, I'm in top of Chapter 5. Constructing a Temporary System.At this chapter some package is introduced that we must compile them.My question is: Do they have Chapter priority in compile same listed in chapter?For example if i compile package 5.12.expet before 5.11.tcl, is it problem? It's possible, but without trying it it's hard to know for sure. The simplest, safest way to proceed is to simply follow the book, compiling the packages in the order the book gives you. Andy -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:14 AM, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org wrote: Dear all, I'm in top of Chapter 5. Constructing a Temporary System.At this chapter some package is introduced that we must compile them.My question is: Do they have Chapter priority in compile same listed in chapter?For example if i compile package 5.12.expet before 5.11.tcl, is it problem? The order of the packages is carefully crafted to make sure prerequisites are built in the correct order. See the appendix for each packages dependencies. For instance, expect requires tcl. When we had a choice for the next package, it is added alphabetically, but there is really no reason to deviate from the order given in the book. You may, of course, do what pleases you, but be prepared to start over if it doesn't work. -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On Tuesday 15 June 2010 11:47:33 Bruce Dubbs wrote: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:14 AM, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org wrote: Dear all, I'm in top of Chapter 5. Constructing a Temporary System.At this chapter some package is introduced that we must compile them.My question is: Do they have Chapter priority in compile same listed in chapter?For example if i compile package 5.12.expet before 5.11.tcl, is it problem? The order of the packages is carefully crafted to make sure prerequisites are built in the correct order. See the appendix for each packages dependencies. For instance, expect requires tcl. When we had a choice for the next package, it is added alphabetically, but there is really no reason to deviate from the order given in the book. You may, of course, do what pleases you, but be prepared to start over if it doesn't work. To be absolutely clear, and to directly answer the question, yes, it is a problem because Expect will fail to compile if the TCL programs and libraries are not found. To provide analogies, one cannot write an essay or poem until she has a sheet of paper on the table in front of her and a pencil in hand, and one cannot type and send an email until he has a working computer, an email program and an active internet connection. Just as the order of instructions in a computer program is very important, the order of the instructions in the human program called, The LFS Book is just as important. Functionally, it is exactly the same as an optimizing compiler; only after one learns how packages (instructions) are interdependent can one successfully reorder or optimize package compilation (instruction execution). (For non-English-speaking LFS users, I hope this translates well enough.) -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 12:23 -0400, Neal Murphy wrote: To provide analogies, one cannot write an essay or poem until she has a sheet of paper on the table in front of her and a pencil in hand, and one cannot type and send an email until he has a working computer, an email program and an active internet connection. In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package: 1.Must be installed before 2.Installation depend on. now i don't know when i want to install package x, see 1 or 2 and install packages before compile package x.please guide me -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 12:23 -0400, Neal Murphy wrote: On Tuesday 15 June 2010 11:47:33 Bruce Dubbs wrote: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:14 AM, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org wrote: Dear all, I'm in top of Chapter 5. Constructing a Temporary System.At this chapter some package is introduced that we must compile them.My question is: Do they have Chapter priority in compile same listed in chapter?For example if i compile package 5.12.expet before 5.11.tcl, is it problem? The order of the packages is carefully crafted to make sure prerequisites are built in the correct order. See the appendix for each packages dependencies. For instance, expect requires tcl. When we had a choice for the next package, it is added alphabetically, but there is really no reason to deviate from the order given in the book. You may, of course, do what pleases you, but be prepared to start over if it doesn't work. To be absolutely clear, and to directly answer the question, yes, it is a problem because Expect will fail to compile if the TCL programs and libraries are not found. To provide analogies, one cannot write an essay or poem until she has a sheet of paper on the table in front of her and a pencil in hand, and one cannot type and send an email until he has a working computer, an email program and an active internet connection. Just as the order of instructions in a computer program is very important, the order of the instructions in the human program called, The LFS Book is just as important. Functionally, it is exactly the same as an optimizing compiler; only after one learns how packages (instructions) are interdependent can one successfully reorder or optimize package compilation (instruction execution). (For non-English-speaking LFS users, I hope this translates well enough.) In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package: 1.Must be installed before 2.Installation depend on. now i don't know when i want to install package x, see 1 or 2 and install packages before compile package x.please guide me -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
On 15 June 2010 18:13, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh moh...@pahlevanzadeh.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 12:23 -0400, Neal Murphy wrote: To provide analogies, one cannot write an essay or poem until she has a sheet of paper on the table in front of her and a pencil in hand, and one cannot type and send an email until he has a working computer, an email program and an active internet connection. In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package: 1.Must be installed before 2.Installation depend on. now i don't know when i want to install package x, see 1 or 2 and install packages before compile package x.please guide me In LFS, the packages are not optional - you need all of them. ĸen -- After tragedy, and farce, OMG poneys! -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/lfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: priority in install of packages
Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh wrote:
In appendex (Dependency section), we have 2 part for each package:
1.Must be installed before 2.Installation depend on.
now i don't know when i want to install package x, see 1 or 2 and
install packages before compile package x.please guide me
If you ask a concrete question, you'll get a concrete answer.
I pulled this from the book
[QUOTE]
Every package built in LFS relies on one or more other packages
in order to build and install properly. Some packages even
participate in circular dependencies, that is, the first package
depends on the second which in turn depends on the first. Because
of these dependencies, the order in which packages are built in
LFS is very important.
[END QUOTE]
For most people, this is enough of an answer. The relationships
between the packages are complex. The dev team has worked out
a build order which works. Don't tinker with it.
Here's some more:
[QUOTE]
Autoconf
Installation depends on: Bash, Coreutils, Grep, M4, Make, Perl, Sed, and
Texinfo
Test suite depends on: Automake, Diffutils, Findutils, GCC, and Libtool
Must be installed before: Automake
Optional dependencies: Emacs
[END QUOTE]
This means that you can't build and install Autoconf unless you have
already built and installed Bash, Coreutils, Grep, M4, Make, Perl, Sed,
and Texinfo.
You can't test Autoconf unless you have already built and installed
Automake, Diffutils, Findutils, GCC, and Libtool.
You can't build and install Automake unless you have already built
and installed Autoconf.
If later you build and install Emacs, it is recommended that you
go back and build and reinstall Autoconf.
Does that answer your question?
Mike
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