Re: [liberationtech] E-Voting

[Brian Behlendorf]

That's similar to what some people are saying about blockchain 
applications to voting.  Don't use it for the voting itself, even in a 
zero-knowlege way, as votes need to be both auditable and understandable 
to lay people to be trusted.  But, you could use it for voter registration 
and for summing up the totals from each polling location as the system of 
record for recording and measuring the total vote.  Giving the 
polling-place totals builds confidence that one's vote counted at the 
polling place (you might even argue the names of who voted is public 
record) and that particular location's totals were counted in the totals.


Brian

On Thu, 17 Nov 2016, Richard Brooks wrote:

I would agree. Also consider the numerous cases of
intentional network disruptions on the continent during voting
over the past year. It is predictable that this would become
a tool of voter suppression.

Oddly, though, mobile devices have been essential tools
in monitoring voting and mobilizing voters in recent years
in the same region.

It makes me wonder what the essential differences are between
these two applications that make the difference.

On 11/17/2016 08:11 AM, Patrick Kariuki wrote:

Mobile voting in Africa is impractical. Even as an option, If people
would start to lose their phones around the election period, the
recovery effort involved in ensuring the service is available and the
consequences thereafter, would be a potential legal and customer service
nightmare.


On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Zacharia Gichiriri
> wrote:

Hi,

Are there any countries that have implemented a form of mobile
voting? Is there any research on the potential, challenges and
applicability of mobile voting?
Considering the explosive growth of mobile phones across Africa,
would the use of mobile phones for elections (citizens voting
through mobile phones) improve election outcomes and transparency?

Best,
--
Zack.


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Re: [liberationtech] E-Voting

[Andres]

>> Transparency is certainly improved. You can check and change your vote
>> after casting it. Estonian government even provides an iOS and Android
>> mobile application for this.
> 
> Oh ho, within your own world it looks like you gave your vote. That does
> not prove a single thing. Even just pointing to that as something that
> convinces you shows how dangerous technology is.
A mathematical proof is not possible for any voting system except that which 
exists only on paper. Ballots can be compromised, votes bought, software hacked 
and hardware tampered with. The question is how costly and hard it is to do so. 
Could Intel and AMD team up and hide a backdoor on the vote counting server's 
CPU? It certainly is in the realm of possibilities. However, it's extremely 
cost prohibitive, risky and as a result unlikely. Could a handful of people 
manning a polling station stuff in extra ballots or take some out? A tad bit 
more likely.

In most countries digital ballot counting machines are used anyway and that 
opens up the same attack vectors as outlined above.

Making votes verifiable and mutable from any platform is the best possible 
approach to such conspirational scenarios. 

> Also, the situation in Estonia is quite different than in most other
> countries, and most of these differences can be attributed to their
> size. Just as a reminder, there are ~500 cities with a population larger
> than Estonia.
Sure, Estonia is relatively small, but scaling the infrastructure is, and never 
has been, an issue. Open to any arguments suggesting the contrary.

> The bigger the system, the larger the influence, especially in countries
> that do have an existing and well-oiled lobbying apparatus. I cannot see
> any larger country introducing any system that has similar security
> properties, and the ability to reliably set aside the maintenance costs.
> Anyone can see too well how broken maintenance of public infrastructure is.
The latter is a fallacy.

> So, on many levels, maybe nobody bothered to mess with the Estonian
> platform because it just doesn't matter from a global perspective.
Given Russia's past cyberattacks on Estonia 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_cyberattacks_on_Estonia 
) and Estonia's 
political stance it would be safe to say that Russia would certainly be 
motivated to investigate the matter. By anecdotal evidence, the ruling 
coalition has not seen a pro-Russia party for the last 11 years so I think it's 
safe to assume Russia is unable to put their foot on the scale.

Andres-- 
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Re: [liberationtech] E-Voting

[Richard Brooks]

I would agree. Also consider the numerous cases of
intentional network disruptions on the continent during voting
over the past year. It is predictable that this would become
a tool of voter suppression.

Oddly, though, mobile devices have been essential tools
in monitoring voting and mobilizing voters in recent years
in the same region.

It makes me wonder what the essential differences are between
these two applications that make the difference.

On 11/17/2016 08:11 AM, Patrick Kariuki wrote:
> Mobile voting in Africa is impractical. Even as an option, If people
> would start to lose their phones around the election period, the
> recovery effort involved in ensuring the service is available and the
> consequences thereafter, would be a potential legal and customer service
> nightmare.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Zacharia Gichiriri
>  > wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> Are there any countries that have implemented a form of mobile
> voting? Is there any research on the potential, challenges and
> applicability of mobile voting? 
> Considering the explosive growth of mobile phones across Africa,
> would the use of mobile phones for elections (citizens voting
> through mobile phones) improve election outcomes and transparency? 
> 
> Best,
> -- 
> Zack. 
> 
> 
> *Note: *All emails sent from Strathmore University are subject to
> Strathmore’s Email Terms & Conditions. Please click here
> 
> 
> to read the policy.
> *
> *
> 
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> 
> Page
> and Twitter
> 
> Account".
> 
> 
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> 
> 


-- 
===
R. R. Brooks

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Re: [liberationtech] E-Voting

[Patrick Kariuki]

Mobile voting in Africa is impractical. Even as an option, If people would
start to lose their phones around the election period, the recovery effort
involved in ensuring the service is available and the consequences
thereafter, would be a potential legal and customer service nightmare.


On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Zacharia Gichiriri <
zacharia.gichir...@strathmore.edu> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Are there any countries that have implemented a form of mobile voting? Is
> there any research on the potential, challenges and applicability of mobile
> voting?
> Considering the explosive growth of mobile phones across Africa, would the
> use of mobile phones for elections (citizens voting through mobile phones)
> improve election outcomes and transparency?
>
> Best,
> --
> Zack.
>
>
> *Note: *All emails sent from Strathmore University are subject to
> Strathmore’s Email Terms & Conditions. Please click here
>  to read the policy.
>
> "Visit our Facebook Page
> and Twitter Account".
>
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Re: [liberationtech] E-Voting

[Moritz Bartl]

Hi Andres,

On 11/17/2016 09:01 AM, Andres wrote:
> Transparency is certainly improved. You can check and change your vote
> after casting it. Estonian government even provides an iOS and Android
> mobile application for this.

Oh ho, within your own world it looks like you gave your vote. That does
not prove a single thing. Even just pointing to that as something that
convinces you shows how dangerous technology is.

Also, the situation in Estonia is quite different than in most other
countries, and most of these differences can be attributed to their
size. Just as a reminder, there are ~500 cities with a population larger
than Estonia.

The bigger the system, the larger the influence, especially in countries
that do have an existing and well-oiled lobbying apparatus. I cannot see
any larger country introducing any system that has similar security
properties, and the ability to reliably set aside the maintenance costs.
Anyone can see too well how broken maintenance of public infrastructure is.

So, on many levels, maybe nobody bothered to mess with the Estonian
platform because it just doesn't matter from a global perspective.

Moritz
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Re: [liberationtech] E-Voting

[Andres]

Hi Zack,

Estonia has been using e-voting since 2005 (and since 2007 for government 
elections). You can identify using the national id card 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_ID_card 
) or mobile-id 
(https://eid.eesti.ee/index.php/A_Short_Introduction_to_eID 
).

Transparency is certainly improved. You can check and change your vote after 
casting it. Estonian government even provides an iOS and Android mobile 
application for this. Most of the criticism comes down to voter devices 
potentially being phished and infected and multi-platform access aims to combat 
that.

IDABC country report gives a quick overview: 
http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/servlets/Doc7bd5.pdf?id=32323 


The challenges are certainly real but so is the potential.

Andres

> On 14 Nov 2016, at 15:57, Zacharia Gichiriri 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> Are there any countries that have implemented a form of mobile voting? Is 
> there any research on the potential, challenges and applicability of mobile 
> voting? 
> Considering the explosive growth of mobile phones across Africa, would the 
> use of mobile phones for elections (citizens voting through mobile phones) 
> improve election outcomes and transparency? 
> 
> Best,
> -- 
> Zack. 
> 
> 
> 
> Note: All emails sent from Strathmore University are subject to Strathmore’s 
> Email Terms & Conditions. Please click here 
>  to read the policy.
> 
> 
> "Visit our Facebook  Page and 
> Twitter  Account".
> 
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> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of 
> list guidelines will get you moderated: 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, 
> change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at 
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