Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
How are the two concepts related? On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, michael gurstein gurst...@gmail.com wrote: Is this kind of event an argument against net neutrality? M From: liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu [mailto:liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:05 AM To: liberationtech Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? One thing that comes to mind right away is that more more companies are replacing private-circuit based WANs by Internet-VPNs, thus, when the Internet is down, their network is down; even more, if they depend on any SaaS (from Salesforce.com for CRM to Maximo for Asset management), or, in general, XaaS (AWS, Rackspace, etc.), for critical business systems, a fast-growing trend, the Internet is their backbone. On Jun 6, 2013 2:45 AM, michael gurstein gurst...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
[liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? MICHAEL GURSTEIN AND YOSSEM
I would like to post this on my FB wall Would that be all right? Seems to me to be very important, with all the horrible talk going on in favor of internet voting I await your response Thank you, Sheila At 03:45 AM 6/6/2013, you wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech Sheila Parks, Ed.D. Founder Center for Hand-Counted Paper Ballots Watertown, MA 02472 617 744 6020 DEMOCRACY IN OUR HANDS www.handcountedpaperballots.org she...@handcountedpaperballots.org -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? MICHAEL GURSTEIN AND YOSSEM
Not a problem Sheila... (good suggestion I'll do it as well :) Best, Mike -Original Message- From: liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu [mailto:liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Sheila Parks Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:17 AM To: liberationtech Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? MICHAEL GURSTEIN AND YOSSEM Importance: High I would like to post this on my FB wall Would that be all right? Seems to me to be very important, with all the horrible talk going on in favor of internet voting I await your response Thank you, Sheila At 03:45 AM 6/6/2013, you wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech Sheila Parks, Ed.D. Founder Center for Hand-Counted Paper Ballots Watertown, MA 02472 617 744 6020 DEMOCRACY IN OUR HANDS www.handcountedpaperballots.org she...@handcountedpaperballots.org -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
One thing that comes to mind right away is that more more companies are replacing private-circuit based WANs by Internet-VPNs, thus, when the Internet is down, their network is down; even more, if they depend on any SaaS (from Salesforce.com for CRM to Maximo for Asset management), or, in general, XaaS (AWS, Rackspace, etc.), for critical business systems, a fast-growing trend, the Internet is their backbone. On Jun 6, 2013 2:45 AM, michael gurstein gurst...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
On 06/06/2013 03:45 AM, michael gurstein wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? This one is easy. Logistics. Airlines have enormous optimization routines mapping planes, crews and passengers to flights. This allows them to shave off overhead and make a profit. If the network is down, they won't know who should fly where. M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
Thanks Richard and this runs on the open Internet? M -Original Message- From: liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu [mailto:liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Brooks Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 10:00 AM To: liberationtech Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? On 06/06/2013 03:45 AM, michael gurstein wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? This one is easy. Logistics. Airlines have enormous optimization routines mapping planes, crews and passengers to flights. This allows them to shave off overhead and make a profit. If the network is down, they won't know who should fly where. M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
You could do it with leased lines, but (a) given cost pressures on airlines, they might choose other options, and (b) as noted earlier, the information was likely filtered through some non-technical folks and this was their understanding of a slightly different problem (network is down - Internet is down or similar). On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Richard Brooks r...@acm.org wrote: On 06/06/2013 10:50 AM, michael gurstein wrote: Thanks Richard and this runs on the open Internet? M Don't know the details about how they communicate from the end points to the back-end, but it is easy to assume that it relies on Internet infrastructure at some point in some way. I would find it hard to imagine other configurations. -Original Message- From: liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu [mailto:liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Brooks Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 10:00 AM To: liberationtech Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? On 06/06/2013 03:45 AM, michael gurstein wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? This one is easy. Logistics. Airlines have enormous optimization routines mapping planes, crews and passengers to flights. This allows them to shave off overhead and make a profit. If the network is down, they won't know who should fly where. M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service?
Is this kind of event an argument against net neutrality? M From: liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu [mailto:liberationtech-boun...@lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:05 AM To: liberationtech Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Airline Shutdown Because of Loss of Internet Service? One thing that comes to mind right away is that more more companies are replacing private-circuit based WANs by Internet-VPNs, thus, when the Internet is down, their network is down; even more, if they depend on any SaaS (from Salesforce.com for CRM to Maximo for Asset management), or, in general, XaaS (AWS, Rackspace, etc.), for critical business systems, a fast-growing trend, the Internet is their backbone. On Jun 6, 2013 2:45 AM, michael gurstein gurst...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably not a Liberation issue directly but I'm not sure where else to address it... Sunday I was flying (Porter Airlines--small short hop Canadian carrier) from NYC to Ottawa, ON with a plane change in Toronto. When we arrived in Toronto we were informed that because the Internet was down planes were not able to land or depart. The company's service was completely shut down for roughly 4 hours until the Internet service was restored (presumably by their ISP). I understand that other airlines have had similar experiences recently. My question... how exactly is Internet service so intertwined with flight operations that service can function only if the Internet is operational? (And I guess the Liberation angle... if this is now pervasive for all airlines what is the hackable element of all this and where are the points of vulnerability etc.etc.? M -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
