Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 01:30:15PM -0400, The Doctor wrote: On 08/21/2013 04:59 PM, Shelley wrote: Sure, but I think Manning has a zero chance of obtaining a pardon. Examples needed to be made to dissuade anybody else from doing something similar. Manning was the example. There will probably be another such example in four or five years, after most people have forgotten and gone on with their lives. There would be no need for personal exposure if the damn press wasn't so tech-tarded. Next-gen leaker platforms better be fit for baboons. -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
On Aug 21, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Shelley shel...@misanthropia.info wrote: Outrageous. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-sentence-birgitta-jonsdottir Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth From a security perspective the issue is that a soldier of his low rank could do that and apparently it is uncommon in the nation that superiors take political responsibility for critical failures, here of security architecture. What he did was clearly above his pay grade. The whole disproportionate treatment serves deterrence purposes. Puts it in a bad light. See also the piece of Sandra Coliver for OSI, she compares penal sanctions for corresponding crimes in other occidental nations: http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/sentencing-private-manning Best, A-- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2013 04:59 PM, Shelley wrote: Sure, but I think Manning has a zero chance of obtaining a pardon. Examples needed to be made to dissuade anybody else from doing something similar. Manning was the example. There will probably be another such example in four or five years, after most people have forgotten and gone on with their lives. - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS] Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/ PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ It appears my producers set this up. They set /me/ up. --Anthony Bourdain -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIWSqcACgkQO9j/K4B7F8FsLgCgvTLia6mx1hXaQ+ZFcHraHGK8 qqMAnRyJykQQLCHMmXEj11e83wO1gESY =miRw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
His statement: The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life.I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country. It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing. It was at this time I realized in our efforts to meet this risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown our any logically based intentions [unclear], it is usually an American soldier that is ordered to carry out some ill-conceived mission.Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy—the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, the Japanese-American internment camps—to name a few. I am confident that many of our actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light.As the late Howard Zinn once said, There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.I understand that my actions violated the law, and I regret if my actions hurt anyone or harmed the United States. It was never my intention to hurt anyone. I only wanted to help people. When I chose to disclose classified information, I did so out of a love for my country and a sense of duty to others.If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society. I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal. gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --search-keys EEE5A447http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xEEE5A447op=vindex Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 13:30:15 -0400 From: dr...@virtadpt.net To: liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2013 04:59 PM, Shelley wrote: Sure, but I think Manning has a zero chance of obtaining a pardon. Examples needed to be made to dissuade anybody else from doing something similar. Manning was the example. There will probably be another such example in four or five years, after most people have forgotten and gone on with their lives. - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS] Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/ PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ It appears my producers set this up. They set /me/ up. --Anthony Bourdain -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIWSqcACgkQO9j/K4B7F8FsLgCgvTLia6mx1hXaQ+ZFcHraHGK8 qqMAnRyJykQQLCHMmXEj11e83wO1gESY =miRw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
[liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
Outrageous. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-sentence-birgitta-jonsdottir Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth This was never a fair trial – Obama declared Manning's guilt in advance. But Manning's punishment is an affront to democracy Birgitta Jónsdóttir theguardian.com, Wednesday 21 August 2013 10.29 EDT Jump to comments (…) Link to video: Bradley Manning: 35 years in jail for an outsider who had trouble fitting in –nbsp;video As of today, Wednesday 21 August 2013, Bradley Manning has served 1,182 days in prison. He should be released with a sentence of time served. Instead, the judge in his court martial at Fort Meade, Maryland has handed down a sentence of 35 years. Of course, a humane, reasonable sentence of time served was never going to happen. This trial has, since day one, been held in a kangaroo court. That is not angry rhetoric; the reason I am forced to frame it in that way is because President Obama made the following statements on record, before the trial even started: President Obama: We're a nation of laws. We don't individually make our own decisions about how the laws operate … He broke the law. Logan Price: Well, you can make the law harder to break, but what he did was tell us the truth. President Obama: Well, what he did was he dumped … Logan Price: But Nixon tried to prosecute Daniel Ellsberg for the same thing and he is a … [hero] President Obama: No, it isn't the same thing … What Ellsberg released wasn't classified in the same way. When the president says that the Ellsberg's material was classified in a different way, he seems to be unaware that there was a higher classification on the documents Ellsberg leaked. A fair trial, then, has never been part of the picture. Despite being a professor in constitutional law, the president as commander-in-chief of the US military – and Manning has been tried in a court martial – declared Manning's guilt pre-emptively. Here is what the Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg had to say about this, in an interview with Amy Goodman at DemocracyNow! in 2011: Well, nearly everything the president has said represents a confusion about the state of the law and his own responsibilities. Everyone is focused, I think, on the fact that his commander-in-chief has virtually given a directed verdict to his subsequent jurors, who will all be his subordinates in deciding the guilt in the trial of Bradley Manning. He's told them already that their commander, on whom their whole career depends, regards him [Manning] as guilty and that they can disagree with that only at their peril. In career terms, it's clearly enough grounds for a dismissal of the charges, just as my trial was dismissed eventually for governmental misconduct. But what people haven't really focused on, I think, is another problematic aspect of what he said. He not only was identifying Bradley Manning as the source of the crime, but he was assuming, without any question, that a crime has been committed. This alone should have been cause for the judge in the case to rethink prosecutors' demand for 60 years in prison. Manning himself has shown throughout the trial both that he is a humanitarian and that he is willing to serve time for his actions. We have to look at his acts in light of his moral compass, not any political agenda. Manning intentions were never to hurt anyone; in fact, his motivation – as was the case for Ellsberg – was to inform the American public about what their government was doing in their name. A defense forensic psychiatrist testified to Manning's motives: Well, Pfc Manning was under the impression that his leaked information was going to really change how the world views the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and future wars, actually. This was an attempt to crowdsource an analysis of the war, and it was his opinion that if … through crowdsourcing, enough analysis was done on these documents, which he felt to be very important, that it would lead to a greater good … that society as a whole would come to the conclusion that the war wasn't worth it … that really no wars are worth it. I admit that I share the same hopes that drove Manning to share with the rest of the world the crimes of war he witnessed. I am deeply disappointed that no one has been held accountable for the criminality exposed in the documents for which Manning is standing trial – except him. It shows so clearly that our justice systems are not working as intended to protect the general public and to hold accountable those responsible for unspeakable crimes. I want to thank Bradley Manning for the service he has done for humanity with his courage and compassionate action to inform us, so that we have the means to transform and change our societies for the better. I want to thank him for shining light into the shadows. It is up to each and everyone of us to use the information
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
tragic. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Shelley shel...@misanthropia.info wrote: Outrageous. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-sentence-birgitta-jonsdottir Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth This was never a fair trial – Obama declared Manning's guilt in advance. But Manning's punishment is an affront to democracy Birgitta Jónsdóttir theguardian.com, Wednesday 21 August 2013 10.29 EDT Jump to comments (…) Link to video: Bradley Manning: 35 years in jail for an outsider who had trouble fitting in – video As of today, Wednesday 21 August 2013, Bradley Manning has served 1,182 days in prison. He should be released with a sentence of time served. Instead, the judge in his court martial at Fort Meade, Maryland has handed down a sentence of 35 years. Of course, a humane, reasonable sentence of time served was never going to happen. This trial has, since day one, been held in a kangaroo court. That is not angry rhetoric; the reason I am forced to frame it in that way is because President Obama made the following statements on record, before the trial even started: President Obama: We're a nation of laws. We don't individually make our own decisions about how the laws operate … He broke the law. Logan Price: Well, you can make the law harder to break, but what he did was tell us the truth. President Obama: Well, what he did was he dumped … Logan Price: But Nixon tried to prosecute Daniel Ellsberg for the same thing and he is a … [hero] President Obama: No, it isn't the same thing … What Ellsberg released wasn't classified in the same way. When the president says that the Ellsberg's material was classified in a different way, he seems to be unaware that there was a higher classification on the documents Ellsberg leaked. A fair trial, then, has never been part of the picture. Despite being a professor in constitutional law, the president as commander-in-chief of the US military – and Manning has been tried in a court martial – declared Manning's guilt pre-emptively. Here is what the Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg had to say about this, in an interview with Amy Goodman at DemocracyNow! in 2011: Well, nearly everything the president has said represents a confusion about the state of the law and his own responsibilities. Everyone is focused, I think, on the fact that his commander-in-chief has virtually given a directed verdict to his subsequent jurors, who will all be his subordinates in deciding the guilt in the trial of Bradley Manning. He's told them already that their commander, on whom their whole career depends, regards him [Manning] as guilty and that they can disagree with that only at their peril. In career terms, it's clearly enough grounds for a dismissal of the charges, just as my trial was dismissed eventually for governmental misconduct. But what people haven't really focused on, I think, is another problematic aspect of what he said. He not only was identifying Bradley Manning as the source of the crime, but he was assuming, without any question, that a crime has been committed. This alone should have been cause for the judge in the case to rethink prosecutors' demand for 60 years in prison. Manning himself has shown throughout the trial both that he is a humanitarian and that he is willing to serve time for his actions. We have to look at his acts in light of his moral compass, not any political agenda. Manning intentions were never to hurt anyone; in fact, his motivation – as was the case for Ellsberg – was to inform the American public about what their government was doing in their name. A defense forensic psychiatrist testified to Manning's motives: Well, Pfc Manning was under the impression that his leaked information was going to really change how the world views the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and future wars, actually. This was an attempt to crowdsource an analysis of the war, and it was his opinion that if … through crowdsourcing, enough analysis was done on these documents, which he felt to be very important, that it would lead to a greater good … that society as a whole would come to the conclusion that the war wasn't worth it … that really no wars are worth it. I admit that I share the same hopes that drove Manning to share with the rest of the world the crimes of war he witnessed. I am deeply disappointed that no one has been held accountable for the criminality exposed in the documents for which Manning is standing trial – except him. It shows so clearly that our justice systems are not working as intended to protect the general public and to hold accountable those responsible for unspeakable crimes. I want to thank Bradley Manning for the service he has done for humanity with his courage and compassionate action to inform us, so that we have the means to transform and change our societies for the better. I want to
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse It's extremely sad that not many people realize that, the discourse critiquing snowden for his 'choice' destinations is appalling. -- Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleemhttp://twitter.com/sanasaleem @bolobhi http://bolobhi.org/ On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Tom O winterfi...@gmail.com wrote: If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
I agree with what you've said, but it's still an outrage that Manning will serve (more) time for exposing war crimes while the criminals walk free. Also agree that Snowden would fare far worse. nbsp;Here's hoping it won't happen. https://prism-break.org/ On Aug 21, 2013 1:06 PM, Tom O lt;winterfi...@gmail.comgt; wrote: To be honest, this was probably the best he could have hoped for.nbsp; He was facing 90. He got 35 with parole after 12.nbsp; It's shit, but not as shit as the other options.nbsp; If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse.nbsp; On Thursday, August 22, 2013, LilBambi wrote: tragic. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Shelley lt;shel...@misanthropia.infogt; wrote: gt; Outrageous. gt; gt; http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-sentence-birgitta-jonsdottir gt; gt; Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth gt; This was never a fair trial – Obama declared Manning's guilt in advance. But gt; Manning's punishment is an affront to democracy gt; gt; Birgitta Jónsdóttir gt; theguardian.com, Wednesday 21 August 2013 10.29 EDT gt; Jump to comments (…) gt; gt; Link to video: Bradley Manning: 35 years in jail for an outsider who had gt; trouble fitting in – video gt; gt; As of today, Wednesday 21 August 2013, Bradley Manning has served 1,182 days gt; in prison. He should be released with a sentence of time served. Instead, gt; the judge in his court martial at Fort Meade, Maryland has handed down a gt; sentence of 35 years. gt; gt; Of course, a humane, reasonable sentence of time served was never going to gt; happen. This trial has, since day one, been held in a kangaroo court. That gt; is not angry rhetoric; the reason I am forced to frame it in that way is gt; because President Obama made the following statements on record, before the gt; trial even started: gt; gt; President Obama: We're a nation of laws. We don't individually make our own gt; decisions about how the laws operate … He broke the law. gt; gt; Logan Price: Well, you can make the law harder to break, but what he did was gt; tell us the truth. gt; gt; President Obama: Well, what he did was he dumped … gt; gt; Logan Price: But Nixon tried to prosecute Daniel Ellsberg for the same thing gt; and he is a … [hero] gt; gt; President Obama: No, it isn't the same thing … What Ellsberg released wasn't gt; classified in the same way. gt; gt; When the president says that the Ellsberg's material was classified in a gt; different way, he seems to be unaware that there was a higher classification gt; on the documents Ellsberg leaked. gt; gt; A fair trial, then, has never been part of the picture. Despite being a gt; professor in constitutional law, the president as commander-in-chief of the gt; US military – and Manning has been tried in a court martial – declared gt; Manning's guilt pre-emptively. Here is what the Pentagon Papers leaker gt; Daniel Ellsberg had to say about this, in an interview with Amy Goodman at gt; DemocracyNow! in 2011: gt; gt; Well, nearly everything the president has said represents a confusion about gt; the state of the law and his own responsibilities. Everyone is focused, I gt; think, on the fact that his commander-in-chief has virtually given a gt; directed verdict to his subsequent jurors, who will all be his subordinates gt; in deciding the guilt in the trial of Bradley Manning. He's told them gt; already that their commander, on whom their whole career depends, regards gt; him [Manning] as guilty and that they can disagree with that only at their gt; peril. In career terms, it's clearly enough grounds for a dismissal of the gt; charges, just as my trial was dismissed eventually for governmental gt; misconduct. gt; gt; But what people haven't really focused on, I think, is another problematic gt; aspect of what he said. He not only was identifying Bradley Manning as the gt; source of the crime, but he was assuming, without any question, that a crime gt; has been committed. gt; gt; This alone should have been cause for the judge in the case to rethink gt; prosecutors' demand for 60 years in prison. Manning himself has shown gt; throughout the trial both that he is a humanitarian and that he is willing gt; to serve time for his actions. We have to look at his acts in light of his gt; moral compass, not any political agenda. gt; Manning intentions were never to hurt anyone; in fact, his motivation – as gt; was the case for Ellsberg – was to inform the American public about what gt; their government was doing in their name. A defense forensic psychiatrist gt; testified to Manning's motives: gt; gt; Well, Pfc Manning was under the impression that his leaked information was gt; going to really change how the world views the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, gt; and future wars, actually. This was an attempt to crowdsource an analysis of gt;
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
Even a large segment of media discourse seems to dwell on his choice of destination. Rather than focus largely on the issues he exposed. The repercussions of NSA revelations are heavily influencing discourse in other countries esp Pakistan. Where we first heard look at china progressing despite censorship now we hear United States does it, how do you expect us not to? More broadly it seems non US citizens do not even exist. Even the discussions on NSA violations have largely been focused on how US is spying on its own people. I as a brown woman in Pakistan do not exist. Tragic, shameful and appalling. -- Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleemhttp://twitter.com/sanasaleem @bolobhi http://bolobhi.org/ On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Tom O winterfi...@gmail.com wrote: It's for his choice in destinations that will get him worse. Aiding the enemy could be politically sensitive. Do you really want to call China Russia the enemy? Prosecution and conviction under the espionage act is a given. I suspect his trial won't be as open as Mannings. On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Sana Saleem wrote: If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse It's extremely sad that not many people realize that, the discourse critiquing snowden for his 'choice' destinations is appalling. -- Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org] Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/] Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/] The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem] Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter: @sanasaleemhttp://twitter.com/sanasaleem @bolobhi http://bolobhi.org/ On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Tom O winterfi...@gmail.com wrote: If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
gt;gt;I suspect his trial won't be as open as Mannings I seriously doubt he'd get even a kangaroo court trial. nbsp;Something would happen to his plane on the way back, etc. These are thugs and war criminals we're talking about in the alphabet agencies and above. nbsp;They don't seem to believe they are bound by rule of law. https://prism-break.org/ On Aug 21, 2013 1:11 PM, Tom O lt;winterfi...@gmail.comgt; wrote: It's for his choice in destinations that will get him worse. Aiding the enemy could be politically sensitive. Do you really want to call China amp; Russia the enemy? Prosecution and convictionnbsp;under the espionage act is a given.nbsp; I suspect his trial won't be as open as Mannings.nbsp; -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
When international media is primarily dominated by multinational US
corporations, voices that are affected outside that realm seldom get heard.
The thing that must happen now is to not let them get away with it. If they
do get away with it, that is now carte blanche approval for EVERYONE to do
it.
On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Sana Saleem wrote:
Even a large segment of media discourse seems to dwell on his choice of
destination. Rather than focus largely on the issues he exposed. The
repercussions of NSA revelations are heavily influencing discourse in other
countries esp Pakistan. Where we first heard look at china progressing
despite censorship now we hear United States does it, how do you expect
us not to?
More broadly it seems non US citizens do not even exist. Even the
discussions on NSA violations have largely been focused on how US is spying
on its own people. I as a brown woman in Pakistan do not exist. Tragic,
shameful and appalling.
--
Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org]
Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/]
Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/]
The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem]
Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter:
@sanasaleemhttp://twitter.com/sanasaleem
@bolobhi http://bolobhi.org/
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Tom O
winterfi...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'winterfi...@gmail.com');
wrote:
It's for his choice in destinations that will get him worse. Aiding the
enemy could be politically sensitive. Do you really want to call China
Russia the enemy?
Prosecution and conviction under the espionage act is a given.
I suspect his trial won't be as open as Mannings.
On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Sana Saleem wrote:
If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse
It's extremely sad that not many people realize that, the discourse
critiquing snowden for his 'choice' destinations is appalling.
--
Director, Bolo Bhi, Advocacy-Policy-Research [http://bolobhi.org]
Blogger: Dawn.com [http://blog.dawn.com/author/sana-saleem/]
Global Voices: [http://globalvoicesonline.org/author/sana-saleem/]
The Guardian:[ www.guardian.co.uk/profile/sana-saleem]
Blog: http://sanasaleem.com] Twitter:
@sanasaleemhttp://twitter.com/sanasaleem
@bolobhi http://bolobhi.org/
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Tom O winterfi...@gmail.com wrote:
If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse
--
Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google.
Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech.
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at
compa...@stanford.edu javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'compa...@stanford.edu');.
--
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https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe,
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Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
Outrageous. tragic. Would this work? http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
Sure, but I think Manning has a zero chance of obtaining a pardon. https://prism-break.org/ On Aug 21, 2013 1:49 PM, Blibbet lt;blib...@gmail.comgt; wrote: gt;gt; Outrageous. gt; tragic. Would this work? http://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon_instructions.htm -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:59 PM, Shelley shel...@misanthropia.info wrote: Sure, but I think Manning has a zero chance of obtaining a pardon. Col. Morris Davis: “Military has detailed regs on confinement credits parole eligibility. My best est is he'll do about 8-9 yrs, out by age 33-34.” https://twitter.com/ColMorrisDavis/status/370223513400913920 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Davis If true, a pretty fitting sentence, I think, for indiscriminately publishing huge amount of classified information that potentially endangered many people, and considering that USA has unusually harsh sentences for a developed country. An interesting comment on Reddit, of all places: “Significant amounts of foreign service agent names were released. These are civilians working for their government in some official capacity (think spies, except not all of them are cloak and dagger types). These were people stationed in hostile countries (Pakistan, SE Asia, Middle East, Africa) and if their cover had been blown while in country they could have been sought out. Luckily, as I understand it most of the people that were exposed were notified by their handlers in advance (basically as soon as word go out that diplomatic cables had been compromised) and were extracted. A friend of mine works in a field that draws a lot of foreign service agents to it due to the nature of the work, and they were camped out in northern Pakistan with her crew. She woke up one morning (the morning after the diplomatic cables were released) and half her crew was gone. They got word in the middle of the night and left. They couldn't even tell the people they were with why they were gone, and I imagine it was quite unsettling to be there and be missing people all of the sudden.” http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1kszc9/bradley_manning_sentenced_to_35_years_in_jail/cbsg58x -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
Thus spake Tom O (winterfi...@gmail.com): To be honest, this was probably the best he could have hoped for. He was facing 90. He got 35 with parole after 12. It's shit, but not as shit as the other options. If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse. This would be really unfortunate, especially since by any objective measure Snowden has been significantly more careful with what he's allowed to be revealed than Manning was. Thankfully, public opinion also seems to indicate that most people understand this effort on Snowden's part, despite the media circus. Even still, I am not in the Snowden would get a fair trial in the US camp, either. I am also worried by the fact that the lawlessness of the gangster governments that most Western democracies have devolved into has necessitated this whole insurance file business again. Let's hope at least that bit works out better this time, for everyone involved. -- Mike Perry -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
agreed. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Mike Perry mikepe...@torproject.org wrote: Thus spake Tom O (winterfi...@gmail.com): To be honest, this was probably the best he could have hoped for. He was facing 90. He got 35 with parole after 12. It's shit, but not as shit as the other options. If Snowden gets captured, you can bet he will be getting much much worse. This would be really unfortunate, especially since by any objective measure Snowden has been significantly more careful with what he's allowed to be revealed than Manning was. Thankfully, public opinion also seems to indicate that most people understand this effort on Snowden's part, despite the media circus. Even still, I am not in the Snowden would get a fair trial in the US camp, either. I am also worried by the fact that the lawlessness of the gangster governments that most Western democracies have devolved into has necessitated this whole insurance file business again. Let's hope at least that bit works out better this time, for everyone involved. -- Mike Perry -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I guess this is progress. In ancient Greece and the Middle Ages, exposing people to the truth would get you killed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIVP+EACgkQEwFPdUjsHjDCoQCaAxcCPUGSs6ibezZNEsA/LDx/ /3oAnR1q0HMpCJEaiNzm+3x+ga6BO6od =ZOgu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Bradley Manning's sentence: 35 years for exposing us to the truth
Excellent point. On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:32 PM, Richard Brooks r...@acm.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I guess this is progress. In ancient Greece and the Middle Ages, exposing people to the truth would get you killed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlIVP+EACgkQEwFPdUjsHjDCoQCaAxcCPUGSs6ibezZNEsA/LDx/ /3oAnR1q0HMpCJEaiNzm+3x+ga6BO6od =ZOgu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
