Re: [liberationtech] Open Letter To US Customs
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Travis McCrea m...@travismccrea.com wrote: http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/04/open-letter-to-us-border-patrol-cbp/ My understanding of the relevant laws is clearly lacking, but the common theme of these border detentions is that apparently one is being held for questioning, yet is not detained/arrested. In that case, the threats to cooperate or be arrested otherwise do not make any sense, since the border agents have no power to arrest you in present situation anyway - is that correct? I.e., Miranda was just passing through UK, so what prevented him from simply staring blankly at the agents for 9 hours? It's certainly less exhausting than answering silly questions of some failures equipped with a crash course on basic interrogation techniques? -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Open Letter To US Customs
On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 12:48:52AM +0300, Maxim Kammerer wrote: On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Travis McCrea m...@travismccrea.com wrote: http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/04/open-letter-to-us-border-patrol-cbp/ My understanding of the relevant laws is clearly lacking, but the common theme of these border detentions is that apparently one is being held for questioning, yet is not detained/arrested. In that case, the threats to cooperate or be arrested otherwise do not make any sense, since the border agents have no power to arrest you in present situation anyway - is that correct? I.e., Miranda was just passing through UK, so what prevented him from simply staring blankly Miranda was a very different scenario than the Canadian PP case. Confusing them is ... confusing. US vs UK, immigration vs transit, and investigation vs political questioning. So yes, I'd agree you should understand the relevant laws better if you want to understand... at the agents for 9 hours? It's certainly less exhausting than answering silly questions of some failures equipped with a crash course on basic interrogation techniques? Miranda was held under a law which appears to make it a separate crime to refuse to answer the questions. This has nothing to do with the linked article. -andy -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Open Letter To US Customs
While I am not sure what you two are getting at,I think I should clear up the fact that I am a citizen of the United States... And this happened on us soil Travis McCrea +1(206)552•8728 Pirate Party of Canada The Ultimate Ebook Library sorry for inappropriate words which may get injected into my email as it is being sent from my mobile. On Sep 5, 2013 8:26 PM, Maxim Kammerer m...@dee.su wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Andy Isaacson a...@hexapodia.org wrote: Miranda was a very different scenario than the Canadian PP case. Confusing them is ... confusing. US vs UK, immigration vs transit, and investigation vs political questioning. There is no such thing as political questioning wrt. detentions above. So yes, I'd agree you should understand the relevant laws better if you want to understand... That was a figure of speech - I actually meant for someone who knows the subject to explain whether remaining silent is a viable strategy or not in such cases. I didn't suggest for bored people to write obvious replies. Miranda was held under a law which appears to make it a separate crime to refuse to answer the questions. If you take what journalists write for granted, perhaps. [1, 18(2)]: A person guilty of an offence under this paragraph shall be liable on summary conviction to— (a) imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, (b) a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale, or (c) both. [1, 2(1)]: An examining officer may question a person to whom this paragraph applies for the purpose of determining whether he appears to be a person falling within section 40(1)(b). [2, 40(1)(b)]: “terrorist” means a person who— [...] (b) is or has been concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism. [1, 5(a)]: A person who is questioned under paragraph 2 or 3 must— (a) give the examining officer any information in his possession which the officer requests So in UK, it could be fine to ignore or answer with: I do not have such information in my possession or I am not a terrorist to any but simplest questions. This has nothing to do with the linked article. That's why I referred to a common theme, please pay attention next time. [1] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/schedule/7 [2] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/40 -- Maxim Kammerer Liberté Linux: http://dee.su/liberte -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu. -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
[liberationtech] Open Letter To US Customs
This outlines my experience yesterday at the border. http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/04/open-letter-to-us-border-patrol-cbp/ tl;dr - because I am the leader of a Canadian political party I might be a terrorist-- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
Re: [liberationtech] Open Letter To US Customs
From Travis McCrea: This outlines my experience yesterday at the border. http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/04/open-letter-to-us-border-patrol-cbp/ tl;dr - because I am the leader of a Canadian political party I might be a terrorist Hi Travis, Sorry to hear your repeated experiences. Its good to find the humor in it. I don't cross the border frequently, but was detained myself in 2001 (pre - 9/11) at the US/Canadian border... essentially for the length of my hair at the time -- I assume. This was by the Candian welcoming party. I was held for 12 hours, strip-searched, and they tore my car down, doing quite a bit of damage in the process. They said I could call a Canadian attorney for advice if I wished, and gave me a list of attornies who were registered to answer questions from people like me. I spoke to him, and he essentially said it's a border crossing, you have no rights, and told me what I might expect them to do. They said it was a routine random search. When I asked what charge I was being held under, they said smuggling drugs; when asked what drugs, they said cocaine. They had found a prescription bottle (correctly marked) with a very small amount of a non-narcotic medication in it, prescribed to me, which they did some kind of on-site test of, that apparently roused their suspicion. They confiscated my car (because I refused to pay a several hundred dollar fine for attempted smuggling) and released me on foot in the desert, 20 miles from the nearest town, at midnight, when the remote border cossing (and road) closed for the night, on foot. Anyway, I feel for you. I could write a long blog post with funny pictures too. I didn't tape anyone, and later filed an appeal by mail which I won and I suspect the team of 10-15 agents they had working me and my car for 12 hours got some heat over the incident. I re-braved the border a week later after consulting with lawyers, congress-persons office, and the department of state (none of which were which much help). I survived the desert, the added expenses and delays, and finally paid the fine, filing and winning an appeal by mail later, resulting in a check drawn on a Canadian bank in CAD (at a loss to me) rebating the fine, with about a once-sentence letter acknowledging I had won the appeal. No acknowledgement of my only other modest demand in my appeal -- essentially -- take me out of your system. A few weeks later, the US border agents at a nearby crossing arrested and deported a Brit who had helped me out that first night -- he had been held until closing at the border too on the same day that I was, by US agents, and was the only vehicle that came down the road. After he was deported, his vehicle was still being held in the States, and I'm sure they didn't expect to have to return it. Surprise though, the nice fellow signed the title over to me. When I called the US agents and told them I was coming for my newly acquired vehicle (an RV), they hedged and hedged, until finally they referred me to the Sheriff who had taken custody of it in his impound yard, and who eventually told me you probably don't want it, someone has stolen the transmission and other parts. If so, I can guess who... And in any case, I can guess who was liable... but I took his advice and didn't pursue it. TL;DR the border makes for good stories. P.S. fab car. Peace. Asa -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu.
