Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Sorry about the delay, kids, I drafted this then had to go to work. Larry, you have never stated clearly any fucking thing except that you want to fuck your pets in your front yard. (And that you want to piss off your neighbors, something I can deal with, but since as long as I live and breathe, my neighbors are already pissed off, I don't need to do anything special). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:09:38 PM Subject: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jay P Hailey jayphai...@... wrote: People who relish the idea of having a prodctive life on their own terms without initating violence against any one, you sneer at for not meeting your definition of libertarian. Liar. I stated clearly that ALL true Pacifists are by default Libertarians. http://www.ncc-1776.org/whoislib.html A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being for any reason whatever; nor will a libertarian advocate the initiation of force, or delegate it to anyone else. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim. — L. Neil Smith Thus one's MOTIVES are irrelevant. All that matters is that one hold that Moral position and behave accordingly. Which I always do. What I might WANT to do is irrelevant.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
I wouldn't say whether there was a moral difference, since I run my life on ethics. Groups mean nothing to me unless they have baseball bats aimed at me (it's illegal to defend yourself with even your fists in New Jersey). I hold to high ethical standards, especially the ZAP, and have no morals (I've been an atheist for a long time), and while asshole that you are you respect neither morals nor ethics, you may know the difference between ethics and morals, you are well-read. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg...@... wrote: I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions You dare to say, in this forum, that there is a Moral difference between the actions of an Individual and the actions of a hundred or a million Individuals in a Group?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Been known to wear the kelt meself, Eric (both dress and great). And me middle name _is_ Donald (was used as my main name until Jr High). I've worn kelts, robes, tunics and other historic-style garments over the decades to avoid jockeys. (Not that that ever helps during the work week, then I'm lucky to get away with camp shorts). -- Ward Donald Griffiths IIIwdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Eric Oppen techno...@intergate.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 9, 2010 11:57:06 AM Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 Quoting Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com: The VAST MAJORITY of people in this country threaten me with Violence By Proxy a hundred times a day. Try neglecting to wear your pants someday. *singing* Let the wind run high, let the wind run low, Thro' the streets in me kilt I'll go, All of the lassies say Hello! Donald, where's your troo-sers?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
From: Wraith wra...@xmission.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 1:41:01 PM Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 At 09:35 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wra...@... wrote: At 03:47 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote: Sounds like PACIFISTS, not libertarians: ... a movement that rejects the use of violence or coercion http://www.libertopia.org/home/http://www.libertopia.org/home/ http://www.libertopia.org/home/ Since Le Neil is involved, I doubt they are pacifists... ^^ I doubt that many of us actually like violence. But its unfortunately necessary in some cases of initiation. Has nothing to do with LIKING violence or not liking it. It says these folks REJECT violence. Of course, all true Pacifists are by default Libertarians. But only a (one hopes) tiny faction. Violence is never NECESSARY. One can always, in true Pacifist fashion, allow the rapist full access to oneself and one's wives. The problem arises with the faux Pacifists. They oppose Violence so assiduously that they propose to punish me (by Force) when I exact Vengeance. Hypocrisy at its finest. A society of 100% Pacifists would be a place I would enjoy (I would be the only non-Pacifist and would do as I please at all times). A mostly-Pacifist place with fewer than 100% Pacifists would most likely be a hellhole ruled by the first bloodyminded dictator or Church Lady to come across it. Nonsense. Violence IS necessary to the *sane* in certain situations. For exactly the reasons you illustrate. Like the next time we catch Larry with a 10-year-old. I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions unless the individuals have names like Ghandi, Stalin, Truman and Hitler) and have been for decades. I shoot to kill when I have to. I don't want to. I'd rather Larry straightened out his act. (He brags about his polygamy (with imported brides), I don't brag, I just live (with American women)). Larry, you still don't underfuckingstand that pacifism does _not_ conflict with self-defense. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question -
-- - Jay P Hailey jayphai...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jay P Hailey jayphai...@yahoo.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2010 8:01:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: A question - For example, Michael Jackson hired a Witch Doctor to cast a spell that would harm an enemy. It turned out that Witch Doctors cannot actually cast spells that harm people, but Jackson was too stupid to know that; he definitely INTENDED to do what he could to harm his enemy by Force. He committed, morally, the exact same attempted harm committed by Squeaky Fromm and the guy who wanted a hit man; yet he was never punished at all. Unless you count that he continued to be Michael Jackson as punishment. This is one area where the Libertopian, Free Market Anarchism deal falls down - punishment. The Libertopian system doesn't punish bad people worth a damn. However, if you wiegh the lack of punishment versus the lack of oppression... I find I am mostly okay with that. Curt pointed out and I have to agree - that we have to go by objective action and objective results. If we look at the Intent of the NY times Bomber, we have to get into everyone's intent. And then we wind up proactively arresting people when their actions show bad intent and we're back into the modern nation state, justifying tyrrany by saying it prevents unknown annd unseen bad people from doing hypothetical bad things. -*- Ward said Libertopians don't use bombs. I think this is too broad a statemment. Explosives are still useful for mining and remving tree stumps. Stupid people will still think it is a barrel of laughs to blow up things other thann stumps and hillsides. I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone in libertopia will have calm, rational, adult judgement. But I do think there's a lower floor of supid past which you're going to talk libertopians into killing you. But I think people of that calm, rational Adult judgement will ration out their force commesurate with the situation. At least I imagine that this is so - I have no direct experience of having calm, rational, adult judgement. Jay ~Meow!~ I don't think I said we don't use bombs. Lots of good engineering uses for explosives. I said we don't use them against human beings, because they're sloppy and kill uninvolved bystanders. I am no more a Libertopian than anybody else here. Humanity is not perfect or perfectible. Just let us do our best without interference from God or Government. Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] A question -
- Jay P Hailey jayphai...@yahoo.com wrote: I was driving along with my friend today It's good to have friends. So - in libertopia, we have arbitration and restitution as our legal basis. Free Market arbitration and assessment of damages. Okay. When I get to Libertopia I'll send you a postcard. On Anti-war I have heard a lot of talk that two street vendors and a homeless man idenntified the bomb and alerted the police... Two people who can't tell their right feet from their left (and a guy who doesn't know where his parents live) called NYPD. That's an excuse for an episode of the show, not a shutdown of the subway system. Okay - so, because they were standing nearest to the vehicle that was rigged with the intent of explodiing... Let's say they are the plaintiffs - the complainants. Although the alleged dumb bomber didn't know them he wound up targeting them for attempted murder Attempted Murder, unless there was assault involved, is not a crime in any jurisdiction I know of. But his attempt failed utterly. His bomb was rigged badly, and nothing damaging happened. Many of my own experiments back when you could actually buy a Gilbert chemistry set were failures. I was not (and am not) a genius. Assume for the sake of argument that the bomber has comitted the act, and that his intent was to murder random folks to make a ppolitical statement. That's the definition of terrorism. Biggest known acts of terrorism were done at Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. None of the culprits were ever brought to trial. As he approaches the parking spot, if our two street vendors and the homeless man identify the bomber, and his vehicle as a threat - they are entitled to take action to defend themselves, up to shooting and killing the bomber in order to prevent his attempt to damage them. They obviously didn't. It's illegal to carry effective self-defense tools in the five boroughs without Bloomy's permission. But after he's left, and his vehicle fails to detonate - and THEN his attempt to hurt these ppeople is discoveered to have happened... What is the damage? None. That doesn't bother any of the states that feel threatened. They have a license to kill. My knee jerk is that bomber is liable for the amount of their lives*, and their belongings - as well as the damage to local privately owned property... Zero, unless they want to go for emotional damage (I'm told that's popular these days). But none off that stuff was damaged. No one suffered an actual, objective loss - the bomber's intent was to kill people and these three people are obviously the people in the threatened area But tey weren't hurt. They siffered no actual loss. What is their claim against the bomber? None, objectively. Shitloads if you watch television. Is there any way to sanction the Bomber in order to say As a cultural issue, we'd prefer you not blow people and their stuff up? Watch him and shoot him if he tries again. Or just shoot him and wait for his family or assigned proxy to complain. 'sall I can think of. Or does he get a You don;t know how to build a bomb pass and damage to his reputation as a result? How does that work in Libertopia? Libertopians aren't big on bombs. They're (the bombs) sloppy, tend to kill uninvolved bystanders. Better to kill the bombers. Harder for them to recruit minions in a real anarcho-cap society, * I assume that a monetary value can be assessed for a human life, Can't be done, though insurance companies try to pretend it's easy. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net
[LibertarianEnterprise] Another of Larry's masturbation halucinations
How many Favorite wives do you you have, Larry? Most of us have only one favorite wife at a time even when we're polygynous. Yes, if all we are allowed is DEFENSE, then no one will EVER be hunted down and punished. So you insist on the imaginary right of offense. Many of us will defend ourselves and those we love, ethically. (And none of us raped your lady -- that's your sick sorry fantasy). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd The Bible says (in Palms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for).
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] A question -
Go north and east. if you see a sign that says Canada keep going east. When you see a sign that says Maine, Stop. You're in New Hampshire. Look around for a place to set your ass. It ain't Libertopia yet. We're working on that. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd - Jay P Hailey jayphai...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jay P Hailey jayphai...@yahoo.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2010 7:22:38 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] A question - We do not write When I get to Libertopia I'll send you a postcard. Screw that, Send me DIRECTIONS! :) :
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Food Prices Rocket in North Korea
Arizona ain't exactly a viable agricultural territory. Folks cross the international border there to get to Texas and Califnordia, where they can (maybe) make a profit. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net - Dennis Lee Wilson dennisleewil...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Dennis Lee Wilson dennisleewil...@yahoo.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:12:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [LibertarianEnterprise] Food Prices Rocket in North Korea Now that Arizona has forced a large part of its labor force out of the state and into Mexico, Arizona may soon experience the same problem. http://www.northkoreanrefugees.com/2010-04-foodprices.htm
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Vermont Secession Strategy
I actually think you might be wrong on this one, Curt. The present military has actually had lessons taught to them in Basic about war crimes. Not that it always works, of course, since the guys who claim to run things send the kids over to places they weren't taught about in Sunday School. I got the lessons about ten months before the sack of Saigon (and was working on C-5s and C-141s at Travis the whole time the south fell, one of our C-5s didn't make it home, it fell into a swamp with a cargo of 600 doctors, nurses and children. Black boxes were never admitted to being recovered, anybody who'd ever worked on that plane was intensely debriefed -- yeah, me too). Official story was a structural failure of a structure that doesn't exist on that plane -- that was probably the genesis of my active anarchism, and I had three and a bit years left in the USAF -- thank whatever gods there might be that _Illuminatus!_ by Bob Shea and Bob Wilson was published as a Dell trilogy a few months previous to provide fresh inspiration. [I'd already been a fan of Heinlein and Rand for let's just call it a long damed time.) (I read _Rocket Ship Galileo_ when I was six, I read _Anthem_ when I was eight). I turn 55 in two months, anybody is welcome to work out the arithmetic. And free to wonder why I wound up in the USAF. (I still wonder myself, and I was there when I did it). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net The Bible says (in Palms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for). - Curt Howland curt.howl...@gmail.com wrote: From: Curt Howland curt.howl...@gmail.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:12:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Vermont Secession Strategy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 22 March 2010, Wraith was heard to say: Thats all well and good. But unlike during the War to Prevent Southern Independence, this time the Imperial Feds have nukes. Do you really think that nest of dangerous sociopaths back in New Rome on the Potomac, would hesitate to use them? No need for nukes against people armed with, at best, rifles. Think Prague Spring. The one and only hope is that the tanks rolling into Montpelier makes enough people angry enough that the cascade of nullification and secession happens in earnest. There is no hope what so ever of military success, because the military will OBEY their orders, just as they did under Lincoln. Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
- Boris Karpa microbal...@gmail.com wrote: In the meanwhile, you can create - and people have tested - nuclear missiles with sufficient yield that a person can stand DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH the explosion which occurst at air combat heights, and the person below remains safe and healthy. Show me a link about such tests. As far as I recall, there have been no tests of nuclear explosives above ground since about the time I was in kindergarten. Or, as I've demonstrated, unless the fight occurs at such conditions where you don't have meaningful collateral damage - in space, in the atmosphere, in the sea, and in uninhabited areas (deserts etc.) You ain't demonstrated diddly squat. (And aside from extra-lunar open space, all of your targets will have collateral damage -- yes, people live in some of those untracked wastelands of sand or water). Nowhere did Isay they need to be owned by the government. I'm quite sure that a private defense agency can (or will in the future) be able to raise enough money to have one or two. Why would such an agency want one? Such explosives can not be used in defense, so it's a crap investment. I don't say nobody can own private nuclear explosives. They have proper engineering uses. If I hear of anybody threatening to explode one that will harm sentient life, it's a self-defense issue. Gospodin, I'm starting to think you have no more clue about the Zero Aggression Principle than an agent of the IRS. Bombs (whether conventional or nuclear) are sloppy. They kill uninvolved bystanders. Bullets are specific. They kill only what you aim them at. You can't use a bomb to defend yourself or others. Bombs are tools of governments and other terrorists. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd The Bible says (in Psalms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for).
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
Damn it, there's that one spelling mistake made on almost every libertarian site and posting (I hope by accident) and every statist website (I assume on purpose). My boy, it's secession, not succession. The first is leaving a government power, hopefully to starve. The other is replacing it, like Charley or one of Diana's sons will do when Betty Windsor kicks off. (That latter is the purpose of most civil wars [like in England in the War of the Roses and the Cromwell hiatus, the Spanish war that Hemingway wrote up so well, and the replacement of a democratic parliament by Lenin later n 1917). The War of Northern Aggression was far from civil, but it was not technically a civil war. It involved secession, not succession. Nobody in Richmond was going to occupy Washington City and force farmers in upstate New York to buy slaves. (The northern victory made every northern farmer a slave, in\stead). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd - Wraith wra...@xmission.com wrote: From: Wraith wra...@xmission.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:59:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition Thanks. I remember reading about that several decades ago. Its yet another example of how murderous the thugs who Rule tend to be, when their whims are contested. Speaking of which, I hope those pushing the succession movements are aware that unlike during the War to prevent Southern Independence, this time the Feds have nukes. I have no doubt what so ever that they *will* use them against any rebel states.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
Children, be good. There is no way a nuclear explosive (or even the convetional sort) can be used in self defense even against DC. There are too many uninvolved bystanders. (Nukes are a great thing for digging big canals or diverting asteroids, if nobody's in the way, but make real sure of that first). A weapon that kills tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals who are not immediately threatening you (road kill or collateral damage -- those are the usual statist terms) are murder victims. Restitution for murder is tricky (since the victim can't be restored to the condition as if no crime had happened). Shoot to kill, but make sure of your target. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd The Bible says (in Psalms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for). - Wraith wra...@xmission.com wrote: From: Wraith wra...@xmission.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:38:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition At 07:08 AM 2/21/2010, you wrote: Better dead than red. What if the states nuke DC? Lets not go there. This is not a secure channel.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition
Planes and submarines are fragile and difficult enough to keep above or below the surface (depending on where they were supposed to be) without requiring nuclear defense. Using a nuke to defend against a nuke is pretty much shitting where you eat. Neil's concept of neighborhood SDI works fine on about any kind of government-level ballistic I can think of. What are nuclear air-to-air munitions? Some kind of imaginary bogeyman like the governments always trying to make us afraid of? I don't live in the sky and don't worry too much about things like that. I don't think even the US feral government is stupid enough to destroy a city's worth of folks that have relatives of voting age everywhere else on the continent to take out one plane, though of course I might be over-estimating the IQ of the US (or any other) government). Nuclear weapons (or even plain vanilla hand grenades) have no place in the arsenal of an adherent to the Zero Aggression Principle. One bullet, no more than one death. You can't aim a bomb at an individual aggressor unless you're willing to accept collateral damage (governments are full of cheerful murderers, I'm not one of them). I won't even fly a plane into a government office building, because I might by chance kill somebody who wasn't Part of the Specific Problem). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net The Bible says (in Psalms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for). - Boris Karpa microbal...@gmail.com wrote: From: Boris Karpa microbal...@gmail.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 2:35:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition How about nuclear air-to-air munitions? Nuclear anti-ballistic rockets, used to take down incoming nukes in mid-air? Low-yield nuclear depth charges, used to hunt submarines? On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:57 PM, wdg...@comcast.net wrote: Children, be good. There is no way a nuclear explosive (or even the convetional sort) can be used in self defense even against DC. There are too many uninvolved bystanders. (Nukes are a great thing for digging big canals or diverting asteroids, if nobody's in the way, but make real sure of that first). A weapon that kills tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals who are not immediately threatening you (road kill or collateral damage -- those are the usual statist terms) are murder victims. Restitution for murder is tricky (since the victim can't be restored to the condition as if no crime had happened).
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] TLE #539 now on the web
- Ken Holder khol...@webleyweb.com wrote: EDITORIAL MATTERS Well, we're have our first night with the temp below freezing. I really do hate cold weather. Yet it keeps on coming back, no matter how hard I grumble. And that's a fact. Yeah, like in Aridzona, here in Joisy the summer showed up late and left early. I guess it's the fault of Global Warming. (Oops, that's now man-made Climate Change, the bed-wetters are covering their bases whichever way the temperature goes). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net
[LibertarianEnterprise] Shooting up in Binghamton
Where have I heard this before? Police arrived in minutes, heard no gunfire and waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building. They led a number of men out in plastic handcuffs while trying to sort out victims from the killer or killers. The guy could have waited a couple of weeks until the actual anniversary. But maybe his handlers have a deadline, like wanting the next victim disarmament bill to be voted in on April 20th. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar
To me, there's not much difference between Nehemiah Scudder and Adolph Hitler, except that Hitler had to write his own book. Yes, I fear any rationalization for dictatorship, communists and christians top the list, but the list is long. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd (page has stale links and resume is not up to date as I'm employed at a dead end job with a health plan and if I quit for a short-lived high-pay consulting gig, La Esposa will make me homeless before the first check arrives) The Bible says (in Palms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for). - Curt Howland curt.howl...@gmail.com wrote: From: Curt Howland curt.howl...@gmail.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:21:14 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 21 March 2009, Wraith was heard to say: At 07:42 PM 3/21/2009, you wrote: As is any US citizen with two brain cells to rub together. I figure a Weimar meltdown by this time next year. -- Ward Griffiths mailto:wdg3rd%40comcast.netwdg...@comcast.net Well...You remember what and who came after that, don't you? We've already had the Enabling Acts... Godwin's Law strikes again. Not that I disagree with the reference at all. In fact, I completely agree. The US is very much in danger. Heinline's fundamentalist dictatorship I see as a very real possibility. - -- The Magistrate, enrobed in taxes, condemns the thief in stolen rags. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBScY7Si9Y35yItIgBAQL9LQf5ATI2a+9kbKdxaUEPgXQ6qS/B+OVea7js n7zsY0QTfuJ9wu1rBq+wCbYinGR5o4o3eLHtzKDkJsstZAoAJgFre8MqrHRu6tsB UWCgpFfW2IuJkw3wcCQT3OkB6Vku4mxL+WvLCyOLsUNjCEeldLXX1c/sAZqVjz5N qfSPt80q2P1gz1WI4Zb5p+kgaaumQl5RD+t6fgaA9w/Rn3s9Fg0YkouinkRQKhQo X2ziGpjReqXYVRXyX+coTiVsCBCg6LgRJ0uTlnwUPYHP+cox2tlux/q204C1Mjqs +caP3iCh3HI3To7cu4++T9phyA29DzKfsFkaTxGb4kY0cjLos6IPIw== =TtqO -END PGP SIGNATURE- Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Fascinating story from Russia Today
You're being a bit general there. A few early movers from the FSP (and a couple of natives) are not New Hampshire. Tha anti-federalism statement didn't pass the Assembly. A mandatory seat-belt law did (the last in the country). New Hampshire isn't totally free, it's merely the least unfree, and the FSP exists to improve that. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd (page has stale links and resume is not up to date as I'm employed at a dead end job with a health plan and if I quit for a short-lived high-pay consulting gig, La Esposa will make me homeless before the first check arrives) - Curt Howland curt.howl...@gmail.com wrote: From: Curt Howland curt.howl...@gmail.com To: smith2004-disc...@yahoogroups.com Cc: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:05:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [LibertarianEnterprise] Fascinating story from Russia Today -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 New Hampshire in uproar over US Administration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npLK5bNY2WQ The comments are everything you might expect. Curt- - -- The Magistrate, enrobed in taxes, condemns the thief in stolen rags. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBScEp3i9Y35yItIgBAQLoiQf/RTJiKMMSCI1u9G+QNvL5FZQyioMYgy5B 87JNlfPr+Ojl7NhYi1B1o3hJE7PONGZlB6GLDbc9TCy/UGmQHnfb4p2IC9+LU++5 pzC/HVEnzchOdmONEuR2ucQw9RJnFFt6Xw/ot592JQbFYgflouebUdnAgqxsEoUI UMlfdm01O/wRbY7Z5m1Mic+EUZzItWzjH9zKX2C0Bq46lCr/SCPrzoWwr0Zv6Sja 9bFYeNrV+lUVd7w0GAXbfcl07V/W3RVT67RFyj8Ty32gxgt1F9yGic/iB87x4Wrq xDUDuyqK2O4bzdlowLcv9YbOL6LlImgwtgHtxqo6lOWseMJtAIC5/A== =L9EP -END PGP SIGNATURE- Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar
As is any US citizen with two brain cells to rub together. I figure a Weimar meltdown by this time next year. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd - Wraith wra...@xmission.com wrote: From: Wraith wra...@xmission.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:48:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [LibertarianEnterprise] Dollar http://tinyurl.com/dxlqbj The UN is proposing a move from the dollar as reserve currency.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: hope
- Eric Oppen techno...@intergate.com wrote: Frankly, part of Simpson's trouble was that he thought he was bulletproof; he'd been let get away with things all his life due to his football skills. One thing I'd love about the NAC is that there are _no_ professional sports there. Not quite the case, if you've read _The American Zone_. Baseball under NAC rules is a sport I think I could enjoy watching. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd (page has stale links and resume is not up to date as I'm employed at a dead end job with a health plan and if I quit for a short-lived high-pay consulting gig, La Esposa will make me homeless before the first check arrives) The Bible says (in Palms 90:10) that The days of our years are threescore years and ten, yet Xtians frequently defy G-d's will and continue to preach rather than commit suicide on their 70th birthday. Yeah, the Psalm says you're allowed to live to eighty, but you're going to suffer if you do that, so you might as well just kill yourself. Suicide is not a sin in the Old Testament, and I can't find the spot in the New Testament that changes the status. (This blasphemy is an original from me [wdg3rd], the sort of thing I strive for).
[LibertarianEnterprise] TLE offering: Eat Political Meat
Sorry, Ken, this ain't much of an article, it's more of a screed. Delete or replace whichever instances of the word fuck you feel the need to. Eat Political Meat Were you hungry this Thanksgiving? I'm willing to wager that nobody in elected or appointed office was. They eat well out of our labor, property, productivity and of course our wealth. At Federal, State and Local levels of office, everybody from the Chief Executive (and his successor) down to the Town Clerk's secretary were living higher on the hog than we the taxpayers. There used to be a slogan EAT THE RICH. (Sometimes with the postscript Because the Poor are Tough and Stringy). Don't blame the creative wealthy for the poverty of others. George Lucas and Steve Spielberg didn't take the food out of your childrens' mouths, whatever the crap you bought from them. Nor did Paris Hilton or the (admittedly useless) members of her play-school directly steal anything. Even Bill Gates, as lousy as the products he's sold, didn't hold a knife to anybody's throat to get them to buy the shit. Only government does that kind of thing. And they get more power and wealth every time they screw up the rest of us. They eat the butter, they aim the guns. Barbecue was apparently independently invented in two widely separated areas, the Caribbean and Polynesia. Nowadays, the main animal that gets cooked by that long, slow cooking process is the common pig, which you want to cook thoroughly since they are omnivores and can harbor many of the same pathogens that afflict humans. But there were no pigs in the Caribbean or in Polynesia when that cooking method was developed, since Great White Father hadn't brought them over from Europe yet. There was an animal more likely to harbor communicable disease. It's known to culinary geeks as long pork. By the way, (I'm a culinary geek, and a few things get on my nerves) that thing you do over charcoal in the back yard is not barbecue. It's grilling, just broiling upside-down with extra toxins from the briquets Henry Ford invented to get rid of scrap wood (often coated with lead-based paint) from his car factory. Charcoal has been mainstream tech for a few thousand years, the Iron Age wouldn't have happened without it, and even bronze is hard to work with just plain wood to heat it up. Henry Ford deserves a lot of credit (though the company he founded doesn't), but he didn't invent charcoal, he just found a new way to market it. Back to politics and economics. I'm not sure exactly how to treat a statist goon. A strong marinade or at least a seasoned brine for at least twelve hours after the initial work of skinning and cleaning (not a job I look forward to, but these are not pleasant animals, they make honest omnivores like pigs, bears, opossums and rats look sanitary). Oh, to hell with it. Dig the barbecue pit trench in the back yard and either cook in it or just toss in the govgoon and some quicklime. I suddenly feel ill at the concept of mixing these jerks with my metabolism. But things will get tighter later. Food always gets more expensive when government fucks with the food supply. Nowadays they fuck with it from before it's grown until after you crap it out, and you pay for every probe. The new New Deal regime will think of someplace to poke you. Keep the option open. Print out your preferred BBQ pork and chili recipes and put them next to your tax forms. The choice is yours and the economy is in the toilet. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought about being diplomatic and polite. Honest, I really did. But while I was thinking about it, I accidentally bumped the button that puts my mouth on autopilot, because it said, That's a load of crap, Captain, and you know it. Jim Butcher, _Small Favor_
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] I believe that's exactly what I said: I do not consider any slavery contract of any nature, including military conscription, to be valid. Unless you have some argument why a Sex Slave Contract is not _really_ a slavery contract there should be no ambiguity left at all. Gary, conscription is in no way, shape or form a contract. It is flat out slavery, and the victim is not there willingly. I've known a lot of folks in the BDSM lifestyle over the years, and while I don't understand what drives them (I'm not into giving or receiving either pain or orders), they are there willingly. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Well, doesn't that just beat all.
From: Ann Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I disagree that parents are necessarily the sole arbiters of their children's
fate. Parents are not the owners, but the *stewards* of their children. As
such,
there are certain limitations on their authority. To begin with, there are
countless decisions which they simply do not have the right to make, on the
behalf of their child (or more distant descendants). They do not have the
right
to bind their child into slavery, either temporary or permanent, or to have
healthy body parts of that child surgically removed for cosmetic reasons (the
American love affair with male circumcision notwithstanding). They have no
more
right to do this than a banker, with whom various people had entrusted their
money, would have to go and take that money and spend it all on himself,
drinking and gambling, as if he were the owner of the money, rather than the
steward of it.
Furthermore, although the parent is the *default* decider of a child's fate,
or
their steward, their is a point at which the control over the child's fate
should be taken away from an incompetent or abusive parent, and given to
someone
else. Certainly someone like Sybil's mother should not have had any control
over
her child.
There's just one fookin' problem. Who decides? Shit, the most expensive
present I got for high school graduation was a suitcase and I can take a hint.
Visited relatives three times during the next 20 or so years. (Until La
Esposa, shortly before gaining that title, insisted on meeting the gene pool
I'd crawled out of), and as a side effect we've been in fairly regular contact
since. (Some of my nephews and nieces are decent folk, others are doing hard
time). My sisters are still butt-ugly (there was never a temptation toward
incest in our crowd, the sisters look like me with better mustaches and sparser
beards). So every time I go up to an FSP event, I have to stop in Manchester
and listen to Mom mumble while she goes off on dozens of tangents (she was
never the sharpest brick in the chandelier, but Alzheimer's or some other form
of senile dementia is taking control). (And let's not mention Dad, best I can
say is that the San Diego VA hospital gave up on his liver about 20
years ago and he's been in the ground since not long after -- if I last three
more years, I'll have the longevity record for anybody with my Y-chromosome, in
the old days it was black lung, the last couple generations it's been cirrhosis
now that we live past 40 or so (and yes, I do like me beer) and the odd heart
attack). {Mom's family lives longer, but kidney failure, intestinal cancer and
senility are not pretty sights -- uncle Doug, Mom's younger brother, took the
easy way out -- his heart exploded, so it was quick).
--
Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy
running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then
one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_
The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this
time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us
individuals, BOHICA.
---BeginMessage---
I disagree that parents are necessarily the sole arbiters of their children's fate. Parents are not the owners, but the *stewards* of their children. As such, there are certain limitations on their authority. To begin with, there are countless decisions which they simply do not have the right to make, on the behalf of their child (or more distant descendants). They do not have the right to bind their child into slavery, either temporary or permanent, or to have healthy body parts of that child surgically removed for cosmetic reasons (the American love affair with male circumcision notwithstanding). They have no more right to do this than a banker, with whom various people had entrusted their money, would have to go and take that money and spend it all on himself, drinking and gambling, as if he were the owner of the money, rather than the steward of
it.
Furthermore, although the parent is the *default* decider of a child's fate, or their steward, their is a point at which the control over the child's fate should be taken away from an incompetent or abusive parent, and given to someone else. Certainly someone like Sybil's mother should not have had any control over her child.
---End Message---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Terry Pratchett has Alzheimer�s
-- Original message -- From: Frank Ney [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 04:24:39 -, Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love Pratchett, but he is far gone... the caption under the second photo makes it clear that he believes that he had an Out of Body Experience that he attributes to the Prince of Wales. Just in case you're being ignorant instead of your usual asstard with delusions of adequacy, that was the Order of the British Empire, a lifetime knighthood granted for achievements in that arts and sciences. You generally don't find one in a box of Cracker Jack (tm). You generally don't find Cracker Jacks in boxes anymore. Frito Lay switched to bags shortly after acquiring the brand from Borden. Some boxes are still sold, but they tend to be limited runs. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zack Bass wrote: As is usual in these discussion groups, the first one to wield the word semantic wins. Nyah nyah nyah. Cute. Are those the kind of battles you usually elect to wage? :) (Actually, wrangling over semantics can be useful when your carefully working out how to state something -- like a Constitution. Someone points out an interpretation that could be made -- that leads where no one wants to go -- and the point is reworded, reworded, and reworded yet again until, finally, everyone is heartily sick of the project and goes fishing.) You're new here. Yes, that is Larry's preferred discussion system. And giving up and letting somebody else define the terms is how we wound up with the Constitution as a Living Document where meaning can be changed at any whim of the President, the Congress or the Supreme (or any lower) Court. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dang, Ward; ever consider New Hampshire? (I haven't followed the Free State thing at all closely. Considered it a good idea, wished I was free to pick up and move. Hoped it would work out and be available as an option later in life.) I've attended three Porcupine Freedom Festivals. Testing my market. I'd really like to open a restaurant up that way specializing in chili. I'm no stranger to New Hampshire. I lived there with my grandmother from 1970 to 1974 (having spent my first 15 years in Los Angeles). My mother's family has been there since the end of the 17th century. Mom, three sisters and a ton of nieces, nephews and their kids live in and around Manchester (which is why I prefer to avoid going anywhere in the state south of Concord). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm snipping a lot of this. Generally a good idea when I get wordy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Optimists think we live in the best of all possible worlds, Pessimists are afraid the optimists may be right. James Branch Cabell? (Ya got me; had to look it up.) Yah. Though I first found the phrase in a Unix fortune cookie file. I was late getting into Cabell's work, since Heinlein never mentioned the source of some of his references -- finally started reading his stuff less than 20 years ago in my mid 30s. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Public chat between Gary and Ward, screw RE: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd like to revisit this bit; I seem to have passed over two of your adopted fathers in delight in discovering another Heinlein fan. While I was growing up, I watched, You Bet Your Life on TV. Was probably too much a child to catch all his jokes but I did catch some of them and did realize he was -- funny. I don't recall being more than moderately entertained by the Marx Brothers routines so I suspect you know quite a lot more about him. I've seen his films, I've read his books. The man was much smarter than his smarmy screen characters, and several of those were geniuses. I did go through a period of enthusiasm for Buckminster Fuller. (Probably inspired initially by reading, The Whole Earth Catalog.) I foundered in reading him as I couldn't get past his penchant for spilling a whole bucket of neologisms over every page. (Ah well, that's what it seems like in memory, at least.) A definite respect for his ingenuity and inventiveness still lingers and to this day I'd love to live in a dome home. One of my minor hobbies is designing airships, and I use Bucky's structures every time to save weight. My dream home is a full geodesic sphere buried 5/8 to 3/4 in the ground, with the exposed portion being entirely window (nowadaways, I use LCD between panes) and the lower part insulated by earth simply by being underground, the floors guyed from the frame with no fixed interior walls, an open well in the center from bottom to top of a 50' diameter structure. Since I have no really detested relatives, I doubt I'll have a chance to, ah, borrow your words; but they're nearly sweet enough to make me wish I did. There are two Heinlein stories I have never finished with clear eyes. The Tale of the Adopted Daughter and The Man Who Traveled in Elephants. The ending of _To Sail Beyond the Sunset_ seemed a bit rushed, but it was out in hardcover almost a year before he died, the paperback showed up the week he breathed his last. Ditto the first; and since I seem to have forgotten the gist of the second, it's clearly time for a reread. Available anywhere, in the Pyramid paperback _6xH_ from the 60s, to the volume _Heinlein's Fantasy_. I recommend reading it in Spider Robinson's 1980 anthology _The Best of All Possible Worlds_ because that one also has what Heinlein claimed as his own favorite short story (by somebody else), Our Lady's Juggler, an extremely christian spiritual story by the notorious atheist Anatole France. Heinlein meant more to me than any relative I ever had (though my maternal grandmother cane close, she taught me how to cuss in Frog, among other useful lessons). He taught me to think and to test what I thought against the world. A splendid epitaph; a fitting tribute. I credit Heinlein with preventing me from becoming an Objectivist. Stranger in a Strange Land and Atlas Shrugged were the two books that most strongly shaped my young manhood. Heinlein's hero's can sometimes be harsh but are rarely unkind; Ayn Rand seemed -- philosophically excellent yet her heroes were often harsh and sometimes decidedly unkind. It seemed to me that I would rather live in Mike's nest than in Galt's Gulch. Know what I mean? Sure. I'm not a pure objectivist, but I will never be a pure subjectivist either. I can be harsh and unkind, but I'll (if I have them, lately I make them one at a time from scratch) give a cigarette to any slob who asks for one. BTW, reread _Stranger_, then watch the Star Trek TOS episode Charlie X. That was the first episode I saw back when I was 11 and I'd first read _Stranger_ the previous summer. I eventually wrote a long (unsent) letter to Ms. Rand which I entitled, Why I Am Not an Objectivist. (After a delicious essay by Bertrand Russell, Why I Am Not a Christian.) I was SO intense those days. I never communicated with Ms. Rand and the little bit of Russell I had to read in school means I never bothered to read anything else he wrote. I know why _I_ am not a christian, I don't need to know anybody else's excuse. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
I prefer women who (1) speak one of the same languages I do and (2) can discuss the books we've read. (My main fetish is smart women, has been since I first figured out how to masturbate). As physically attractive as Filipinas may be, they are usually no intellectual giants if they're for sale. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Not mind you, that the experience turned me off of polyamory; just nothing else developed.) Now, as you report of yourself, I'm too old and ugly to expect any further, ah, developments. :) If I can do it, anyone can do it: http://ph.match.com/ (It's not what the front page looks like, it is the Filipina version that no one here knows about - I discovered it last year when I was in the Philippines... they keep it separate because of evil Philippine Laws against Foreign Marriage Services) http://Filipinas.US
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
Name one person (other than Ken Royce) who did more damage to the FSP than you did. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It remains to be seen whether he can argue a position without painting his disputant as an enemy -- without becoming hostile. I love doing that. Note that I simply remove the insults from Ward's posts and reply to the content without replying in kind. I do express Hostility to certain Ideas. Others become hostile to me as a despicable human being or worse.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From the writing style, I assumed she was another of your pseudonyms. Still do. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quit pissing off potential recruits. You're breeding republicants and demolicans every time you set hand to keyboard. Once again the latest letter from the genius Ann Morgan is relevant to current Group discussion: http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2008/tle487-20081005-01.html I suppose I am a 'provocateur' in that I want to 'provoke' people to examine their own moral codes and inconsistencies. This does not cast freedom in an 'unsavory' light so much as it is casting freedom in a harsh and honest light, one that doesn't allow either for certain uncomfortable aspects of it to be ignored OR for little bits of comforting tyranny to be hidden in any convenient shadows. Nor does it 'disqualify' freedom so much as it disqualifies someone from claiming they want freedom when they really don't, or claiming that a particular system is 'freedom' when it really isn't.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can discuss books with Boys. I've heard you can fuck them too. Not my preference. My second wife has a Doctorate and dozens of books on Amazon. Didn't like sex much unless you waited two weeks and she was climbing the walls, then she was great; approach before that and you're toast. That actually is what led to my acquiring my third wife; once I had both, we got along great. I learned my lesson: Select wives for their proper purpose. We definitely have different priorities. Both sexual and philosophical. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
You threw yourself under the Bus. Jason hasn't been the driver for several years. And the FSP has never been anything except that Bus. Once you get off at the Station, you're on your own, aside from who meets you there or later. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aw shucks. Remember, the FSP has utterly changed - because of Sorens, not me: Now it is only The Bus. Under which I was thrown. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Name one person (other than Ken Royce) who did more damage to the FSP than you did. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York gfyork@ wrote: It remains to be seen whether he can argue a position without painting his disputant as an enemy -- without becoming hostile. I love doing that. Note that I simply remove the insults from Ward's posts and reply to the content without replying in kind. I do express Hostility to certain Ideas. Others become hostile to me as a despicable human being or worse.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the FSP has never been anything except that Bus. Oh not so! IT was originally of the very same substance as the Free Town Project, with the goal of TAKING OVER the Government of the Chosen State. I merely scaled it down to manageable size, whereupon Jason panicked thinking that something that MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD was coming along. And here is the PROOF: (1) http://freetownproject.com/The_Free_State_Project-Home_Page-August_2001.html The Free State Project is a plan by which a critical mass of libertarian voters relocate to an underpopulated state and electorally take control of the state govt. That's not proof, it's not even evidence. (I note the URL). It's still a good idea. (2) http://freetownproject.com/The_Free_State_Project-Statement_of_Intent-October_2 001.html I hereby state my solemn intent to move to a state of the United States designated by vote of Free State Project (FSP) participants as specified in the Bylaws of the FSP. Once this move occurs, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the sole role of civil government is the protection of citizens' life, liberty, and property. (Note that this was unilaterally altered later to pander to Anarchists - sole was changed to maximum.) Being one of those anarchists, I have no problem with the change in wording. Also: the original Article by Sorens that started it all, in fact in The Libertarian Enterprise as I recall, used the term TAKE OVER - it's still there, and I can take the trouble to find it if you care to dispute it. Yes, I read it the week it was posted. I've been reading TLE since about the third issue, back when the young and beautiful Yiing Boardman was editing instead of the old and almost-as-ugly-as-me Ken Holder. You and your friends tried to take over a town before it was ready, blocked due to your insistence on fucking your under-age close relatives (and livestock) in the front yard. The rest of us are working on making the whole state ready for freedom. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
No cannibalism involved in Switzerland. But the next time I drive through Idaho (not likely during the forseeable future) I'll try to remember not to eat the scabs I pick from mosquito bites). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Name one person (other than Ken Royce) who did more damage to the FSP than you did. Boo hoo, what kind of Movement is so fuckin fragile that somebody like me can scuttle it? Reminds me... I gotta go needle them about the Oppressive Swiss Government interfering with an entrepreneurial restaurant's promotion of Cannibalism. http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front.html?siteSect=109ty=stsid=9744046front=br http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=18053.K Idaho Statutes TITLE 18 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS CHAPTER 50 MAYHEM 18-5003. CANNIBALISM DEFINED -- PUNISHMENT. (1) Any person who wilfully ***[[[SIC]]]*** ingests the flesh or blood of a human being is guilty of cannibalism. (2) It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of the provisions of this section that the action was taken under extreme life-threatening conditions as the only apparent means of survival. (3) Cannibalism is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not exceeding fourteen (14) years. FOURTEEN YEARS!!! For drinking a single drop of YOUR OWN BLOOD And don't tell me They don't apply Statutes to the letter of the Law when They want to, in Idaho and everywhere else in the U.S. We all know that tit milk contains human cells - let your tits leak while raping some guy and they'll DNA it faster than you can say Lowell Women's Correctional Facility. http://www.dc.state.fl.us/Facilities/region3/314.html
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
-- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simple, I hope. Predator vs. prey. Predatory: treating another as though they were prey. In its grossest sense, it involves force, threat, outright theft, and/or fraud -- forcing another to meet your needs, pursue your ends, generate your pleasure, or feed your appetite. Then what we are discussing - Jane's agreement to get money from Kevin - is NOT Predatory in its grossest sense, since it involves no Initiation Of Force, no Theft, and no Fraud. I don't know what it means to treat another as Prey without Initiation Of Force Or Fraud, but whatever it is, what is un-libertarian about it? The idea of libertarianism, see, is to leave people the fuck alone as long as they do not Initiate Force Or Fraud - is that not good enough for you? What they do within those parameters, and what their Internal Mental Motives may be, is none of our goddamn business! http://isil.org/resources/philosophy-of-liberty-english.swf (This one has the You Own Yourself crap, but ignore that, it's really good.) http://wspq.org/ Thanks, Larry, it's been a while since I really watched the late Kerry's best production. It's my usual screensaver at work, but my cow orkers don't understand it. (Well, it's north Jersey, in sight of where the WTC used to stand and they're all confirmed statists ready to vote for McClown or Obamalangadingdong, like there was a fucking difference). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] You know, I had to reread that paragraph a few times before I actually grasped it. Wow. There actually is an instance where the construction Joe is taller then Bob, could be grammatically correct. With appropriate punctuation, of course. As to your height; console yourself: at your worst, Ward is taller than Gary. :) In the last half century, I've gotten used to it. I'm the shortest thickest male in my father's family (and the only one left), the tallest slimmest male (and I'm not skinny) in my mother's family. Mind you, my nephews are all across the board. (I chose not to reproduce, but my sisters bred like cats and so do their kids -- the family name is being carried on due to the lack of brothers-in-law before each of my sisters had at least two kids). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds like I may be able to console myself; perhaps, just perhaps, Ward is thicker than Gary. :) Mentally, probably. Physically, I'm down to 225 lbs from a peak of about 270. Sounds like your sisters were delightfully naughty. Any girl, no matter how butt-ugly, can get laid. My sisters look a lot like me with less beard, better mustache (the picture at the bottom of http://home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd/ is ten years old, I don't get many pictures taken). My oldest nephew (currently in Iraq, he did his time in the Army but joined the USAF reserve for the pin money) was born shortly after #2 sister's 16th birthday. (All three are younger than I am, after my conception caused their marriage, the folks wanted me to have a brother, finally gave up -- good, because I have a lot of brothers by choice rather than by familial requirement and several are on this list). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zack, (First let me say I share your opinion of 'modern art'.) I really am trying to understand where you're coming from. Do please have patience if I get it wrong. You're going to have to go through the archives for that, son. Basically, he feels it's his right to fuck on his front lawn with however many women he can attract or rent. He's seriously into polygyny. I happen to agree that that is his right. I also prefer to use the back yard, as I don't need an audience to prove my studliness. I'm also more of a polyandrist. As Eastwood said, A man's got to know his limitations. I'm not a major stud, but from evolution I've got good hands and I'm a tool user. Oh yeah, he's an asshole who argues for the sake of having a conflict, whether somebody already agreed with him or not. I recommend therapy, but not being a statist I wouldn't force it on him the way the Obamalamadingding or McClown administration is likely to, once the government learns how to use their new powers of internet search and destroy. (He's not first on the list and I'm not last, but we're both on it). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like what you said; brothers by choice. And what the hell did they mean by the saying, Blood is thicker than water.? http://www.cvphysiology.com/Hemodynamics/H011.htm The viscosity of plasma is about 1.8-times the viscosity of water (termed relative viscosity) at 37°C and is related to the protein composition of the plasma. Whole blood has a relative viscosity of 3-4 depending upon hematocrit, temperature, and flow rate. Larry, that is possibly one of your most accurate replies ever on a question that nobody cared about the technical answer to. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertarianEnterprise/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertarianEnterprise/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
Your story reminds me of an old conversation in Married with Children: Peggy: Remember, you can catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar. Kelly: But if you pull their wings off, they'll eat whatever you give them. Possibly the best objection to government that has ever appeared on Faux TV. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] I like to take things literally if doing so can settle a question of folk wisdom or a conundrum. A couple of years ago my fifth-grader had to do a Science Project, so I bought six Fly Traps on eBay and we set out to test whether or not you can catch more flies with Honey than with Vinegar. I arranged the traps around the perimeter of a trampoline near a house, over small saucers containing: (1) Vinegar (2) Honey (3) Denatured Alcohol (4) Dead Bird (5) Dead Fish (6) Mammal Shit We did prove that we could catch more flies (Houseflies anyhow) with Honey than with Vinegar, but we caught a lot more with Shit. Since then I have learned that there is a kind of fruit fly called a Vinegar Fly, so I intend to go to a place where that kind of fly predominates and see if we can DISprove the hypothesis under those conditions. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're just being Mean! :) Zack Bass wrote: --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Gary F. York gfyork@ wrote: I like what you said; brothers by choice. And what the hell did they mean by the saying, Blood is thicker than water.? http://www.cvphysiology.com/Hemodynamics/H011.htm The viscosity of plasma is about 1.8-times the viscosity of water (termed relative viscosity) at 37°C and is related to the protein composition of the plasma. Whole blood has a relative viscosity of 3-4 depending upon hematocrit, temperature, and flow rate. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertarianEnterprise/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertarianEnterprise/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
Oh, by the way, I have no disagreement with this message by Zack Bass aka Larry Pendarvis. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA. -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yeah, he's an asshole who argues for the sake of having a conflict, whether somebody already agreed with him or not. Oh come on, that's no fun, I never do that. I can ALWAYS find someone to disagree with me.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zack, You know, I'm really beginning to become convinced that we're basically in agreement on the fundamentals. Probably. Gary, don't make the mistake of agreeing with him about anything. Even on the rare occasion he makes sense. Not until you know the jackass better. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
-- Original message -- From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zack, (First let me say I share your opinion of 'modern art'.) I really am trying to understand where you're coming from. Do please have patience if I get it wrong. You're going to have to go through the archives for that, son. Actually, yesterday I attempted to do that. Yahoo wanted me to log in. Sadly, I no longer recall which username and password I used long ago to join the various groups I now belong to. In extremis, I'll just join Yahoo anew. Had to do that several times. Yahoo's servers have lousy memories. Basically, he feels it's his right to fuck on his front lawn with however many women he can attract or rent. He's seriously into polygyny. I happen to agree that that is his right. I also prefer to use the back yard, as I don't need an audience to prove my studliness. I'm also more of a polyandrist. As Eastwood said, A man's got to know his limitations. I'm not a major stud, but from evolution I've got good hands and I'm a tool user. Hey, maybe he's an exhibitionist too. I presume he'd honor a contract (if he actually agreed to sign one) prohibiting such things. Tool user. Good one. My ancestors (also yours whichever clan of human you claim) chased antelope and baboons for at least a couple of million years across Africa before migrating to worse climates. They were usually carrying the thighbones of antelopes they'd already eaten. The original caveman club was not made of wood. Well, I haven't been on this list long enough to say this with any impact; but, hell, I'll say it anyway. He may be an asshole, but he's _our_ asshole. I do not claim possession. He's yours if you want him. I confess I've become a little impatient from time to time. Fortunately (or not) my more negative emotions tend to fade rapidly and I've so far managed to restrain myself from over-hasty replies. On a more positive note he has a good imagination, can be thoughtful, and does seem deeply committed to libertarian ideals. Did I mention, helpful? That too. I hope that he and I will yet find an area of genuine and substantial disagreement that we may probe to our mutual benefit. I'd expect I'd like that quite a lot. It remains to be seen whether he can argue a position without painting his disputant as an enemy -- without becoming hostile. Optimists think we live in the best of all possible worlds, Pessimists are afraid the optimists may be right. I still recall fondly a dispute I had at a party long ago. I no longer recall the subject matter; philosophical, probably -- perhaps even religion. My disputant was a Jesuit Seminarian who seemed able to appreciate a good argument even as he set about to demolish it. A splendid time was had by all. Sadly, not everyone is capable of that level of simultaneous engagement and distance. Funny, I never discussed religion with Father Dolan. (At the time he was second in charge of the matrimonial tribunal for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles). He knew I was an atheist and a better biblical scholar than he was. I listened to a long debate between Jarlath (yes, we were on a first name basis) and my ex-wife (she's Gardinerian Wiccan), and the Irish branch of the Church dealt with pagans for a long time before the reconciliation with Rome a century and a half ago. We were friends, I was the software support guy, she did field hardware support for the Xenix systems we installed there to help with the paperwork (at the time we were both working for Tandy/Radio Shack, out of different offices). The discussion happened when Monsignor Helmut (Jarlath Dolan's boss) bought supper (at the Pasadena Sizzler). I respect (and love and despise) Larry a lot too, but you've got a lot of work and a hell of a challenge ahead of you. Just don't take anything he says at face value. Oh, and I've had that problem with Yahoo also. On my third Yahoo ID these days. Good thing I don't use those ID's for anything important. Nor the ones at AOL and Google. Haven't checked my Google mail in months. Hope there wasn't anything I really needed to know. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ The two halves of the ruling Party are arguing over who gets to be the Top this time. Either wins, Top or Bottom, they both win by the situation. For us individuals, BOHICA.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: CONGRATULATIONS, Zack!
-- Original message -- From: Gary F. York [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zack, Do me a favor? Wikipedia for straw man fallacy. (Does anyone else use 'wikipedia' as a verb yet? It's coming I'm sure; just as we now Google for something.) Actually, when you google for something, at least seven times out of ten the Wikipedia entry is the first result after the paid ads. (And for most of the rest, there is no Wikipedia entry, because I misspelled it). Real estate values in the Hills will no doubt have its ups and downs; but there are plenty of people who would like to live there who don't live there now that I'd be confident of a timely resurgence of values. They might be sorry. While the purchase price might be close to zero, the property tax would be the same. Beverly Hills has worse property tax rates than the rest of Los Angeles County (it's how Ed McMahon went broke) or even most of New Jersey. And while the cost of the property may be minimal, no tax authority that I ever heard of ever lowered its valuation of a property within its jurisdiction. Marilyn Monroe, for instance, killed herself. Kind of the ultimate in 'dropping out'. Sure, there are other female actresses and many would be imitators, but no more Marilyn. (Ah well, perhaps its a generational thing.) Loss. Big loss to the world. Well, there are several theories that it might not have been suicide. But I don't have a dog in that race, I was seven years old at the time and I never developed an interest in the Kennedy boys either. By the time I hit puberty, there were (by my imprinting) stars available. Besides, she was eight years older than my mother. And while it might be stretching it to suggest that every death represents a loss to the world (some people seem to present themselves as net liabilities) I do see the vast majority as potentially net assets. Zero population growth is not my favored slogan. What about, Kill death! instead? I've always liked the Jehovah's Witless slogan Some Now Living Will Never Die. Despite the fact that I'm an atheist. The only thing holding back most longevity research is government. (I'm also a fan of the late Robert Anton Wilson). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Paying The God Card - was: TLE#481 now on the web
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] And she does it again! In her letter in TLE #483, she comes up with the same answer I have given to the Anarchists (some of whom STILL claim that such a Minarchy somehow violates NAP - it is becoming clear that what they REALLY object to is Retribution/Retaliation). Any amount of government violates the Zero Aggression Principle -- where did you get this silly idea that govern means anything except the supposed right of governors to impose on the governed? You want to go for retribution/retaliation in a real free society, take out the kids before you take out the parents you're committing revenge on. The neighbors might object to the noise, though. Larry, why do you always remind me of Peter Lorre in M? -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Paying The God Card - was: TLE#481 now on the web
They put people in cages for reasons that don't involve initiation of force. As for having the materials to smoke a joint on your front porch (whether or not you light up) before you consensually screw your sister, her poodle and her boyfriend (who's your cousin) on the front lawn. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You want to go for retribution/retaliation in a real free society, take out the kids before you take out the parents you're committing revenge on. The neighbors might object to the noise, though. Retribution and Retaliation by The Government, for crimes that constitute Initiation Of Force, works well NOW; it's one of the few worthwhile things about The Government we have today. And no kids are taken out, no need, just put the perps in a cage.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] TLE #483 now on the web
It's called skanky. A combination of good, bad _and_ ugly. You're old enough to have not been there, I'm old enough to have been there only a couple of times, most of the readers here are young enough (and I hope smart enough) to have missed that particular brick upside the head in their sexual education. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ -- Original message -- From: Ken Holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Libertarian Enterprise A FEATURE OF NetPlanetNews.com EDITORIAL MATTERS I got me an electric toothbrush for $1 over at the new dollar store called Dollar Tree. They were going to call it Dollar Bush but people thought it was a whorehouse. There were all these guys lined up clutching a fist-full of dollars. No doubt wondering what they could get for a few dollars more. Probably wondering also if it was going to be good, bad, or ugly. But that's not important right now.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Fwd: JIB-JAB
It likely has, at least among the ones registered to vote as official attendees of the Party, which means that republican ass-wipe and his vice butt-buddy probably haven't. As I was saying over twenty years ago, computer literacy implies literacy. Not a thing Barr or its fuck-buddy have. Yes, I use obscenity. It means something to me. Since I don't have a god (nor would I give a damn if it showed up) profanity doesn't work for me. G-D can correct my manners in person. Anybody else takes offense, I have the 1st and 2nd Amendments to back me up. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ -- Original message -- From: Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Has this made the libertarian circuit yet? In some alternate Earth, how would they lampoon R.P.? - -- Forwarded Message -- This pretty much sums up our current election cycle! http://www.peteyandpetunia.com/VoteHere/VoteHere.htm - ---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Fwd: JIB-JAB
Don't have to lampoon RP. He did id himself. A Republican opposing increasing the size and scope of government, increased taxation, foreign entanglements and/or wars and invasion of privacy. He's already a laughingstock. He's against every Republican platform plank. No need to even mention his opinions of the Federal Reserve Bank or the welfare system). Sorry about the delayed response here, the Cablemodem shit itself (now replaced) and I don't send much email from work. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I know [about the art of the sword] boils down to this: If you see a guy running at you with a sword, put two rounds in his chest to slow him down, then one into his brain to finish him off. Aaron Allston, _Sidhe Devil_ -- Original message -- From: Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Has this made the libertarian circuit yet? In some alternate Earth, how would they lampoon R.P.? - -- Forwarded Message -- This pretty much sums up our current election cycle! http://www.peteyandpetunia.com/VoteHere/VoteHere.htm - --- - -- Treason! http://blog.mises.org/archives/007926.asp -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBSLaZPi9Y35yItIgBAQLcZwf+MTeGk912nFdDWJxUTwwkOOBRxrQe0jn2 J/5y9nB7R9TDKZ/qHttjW2w9rLsa3hQKItyn6YeAmuagjVQqZCWb2X84AN5XtS0O 7ZfbtrBsfBPwkq4w6JNElhK5pZ5t8909v0S2bGI3343CyMcleioYxUeMS9lgGon2 QkFxFu7FcSctXL3JZS8/QLiOjWaBqdY/MLTjLTYgZks7Ctuv6ghOy76zb9uJkcDO Mfln+NbcCkEEz+4Ys8fD0TMypbrZ1Sc0h+IvEzgXAI5w4jhZItsTQPes3trC2Kbn 1Z+Jg3Y2OM5Mwow90rQbwXzaLvjirL8eDAvA8SB0kUoTsPLdia7c4A== =p3nT -END PGP SIGNATURE- Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Albinos uninsurable in Tanzania
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Lee Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is NOT an example of what ***WOULD*** happen in an AnarchoCapitalist paradise because an AnCap paradise ***would have armed citizens who could defend themselves*** and others (if they so chose). Crime is little deterred by the possibility that the Victim will DEFEND himself. One can always bop him from behind, or wait until he falls asleep. Crime is deterred by the fear of RETRIBUTION after the fact. That's why bank robbers wear masks. Absent fear of retribution, bank robbery would be easy: Shoot everyone immediately and take the bus home. Shit, Larry, you really seem to have some issues. Did that 7-11 manager you were shoplifting from when you were 13 beat you that close to death or did your dad do it when he found out? Statistics to date are that defense is a much better deterant than retribution. The very _possibility_ of defense is a better deterrant than retribution. You live in Florida (since New Hampshire won't tolerate your chickenshit), look at the fucking statistics. Oops, that requires math skills. Those accidents in shop class mean you can't count to ten, let alone do the stuff that needs reasoning skills. Larry, I've done my best to ignore you (though once or twice I've actually come out in your support). You are butt-fucking ignorant on the concept of defense of self and others. Try to actually think for a few minutes instead of dreaming about drowning in an olympic pool filled with underage girls and/or boys (and consider the repercussions if they have means of effective defense). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play it all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: QED:Laughing Out Loud and then Crying
From: Dennis Lee Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right on! And you are making a good point about where welfare money goes - lots of people do make the mistake of thinking that much welfare goes legally to Illegal Immigrants. I wouldn't be surprised to find that some jurisdictions do explicitly give welfare to illegals, but you are correct that in the vast majority of cases Illegal Immigrants get welfare only by Fraud. I have not seen anything like an official, authoritative, source report containing figures about the number of illegal immigrants who receive welfare funds, nor how much they allegedly receive, but as I see the issue: EITHER illegal immigrants are being ILLEGALLY paid welfare money by government agents, OR someone was lying when they started a rumor that illegal immigrants are receiving welfare. I have no way of validating either alternative. Is there a third alternative that I have overlooked? Dennis Of course. Some of the illegal immigrants are doing what immigrants have done in North America for longer than my own ancestors have been here (the second boat to Massachusetts), working, offering their services for less than the minimum wage and often not paying taxes. Some of them even don't attend the proper churches. My sisters (all born in Los Angeles and our most recent immigrant ancestor showed up more than a decade before Lincoln's war) and many of their spawn (all that I know of were born in New Hampshire) have spent decades sucking the government tit, mostly legally. (If they feed you in prison, it's legal, I think). That covers one nephew and a couple of others are in the Reserves which means they spend more time in southwest Asia than the Regulars). (I'm glad I was only a Regular for my strict (voluntary, and yes I was 18 and stupid -- a simple redundancy )four-year contract -- if I'd been dumb enough to join the reserves, I'd probably still be in the cage McCain kissed his way out of since my dad retired (medical) as a PFC not an admiral). I grew up in a neighborhood where two thirds of the surnames were hispanic. Half of them had ancestors in the area before the US was a country let alone the six or eight decades later that California became one (briefly until the uncle of the guy the town I live in was named after annexed the state for Washington City). (Look up Stephen Kearny, hero of the Mexican war and savior of California and Philip Kearny, one-armed Union general and not as far as I can see not as incompetent as most -- might have been due to losing an arm in Europe twenty years previous, shit like that smartens a man up if he lives through it). The biography and history of Stephen Kearny was written by the winners (him and the various governments he supported) so always doubt your sources whether positive or negative, we all have axes to grind and skulls to plant them in. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play it all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965 ---BeginMessage--- --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, "Zack Bass" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right on! And you are making a good point about where welfare money goes - lots of people do make the mistake of thinking that much welfare goes legally to Illegal Immigrants. I wouldn't be surprised to find that some jurisdictions do explicitly give welfare to illegals, but you are correct that in the vast majority of cases Illegal Immigrants get welfare only by Fraud. I have not seen anything like an official, authoritative, source report containing figures about the number of "illegal immigrants" who receive welfare funds, nor how much they allegedly receive, but as I see the issue: EITHER "illegal immigrants" are being ILLEGALLY paid welfare money by government agents, OR someone was lying when they started a rumor that "illegal immigrants" are receiving welfare. I have no way of validating either alternative. Is there a third alternative that I have overlooked?Dennis ---End Message---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Predicted Famine
Yes, these are our tax dollars at work, under the management of a bunch of power-and-drug-crazed (I have always doubted GWB's abstention) drunken lemurs. Steal the money folks can use to buy food and fuel, then use what's left from the stolen money after rake-off to raise the the price of the food and fuel. Easy-peazey. Though I think even those idiots are surprised at the global spread of the effect. (Not exactly deep thinkers unless they're slant-drilling a well). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play it all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965 -- Original message -- From: Robert D. Silvetz, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well if we simply eliminated the subsidies that are creating the biofuel industry, food would go back to being consumed for sustenance as opposed to making fuel. And if we removed the controls on refineries and drilling, we would be awash in oil, and if a workable method of thermal depolymerization came to pass (reasonable assumption) -- we would drown in the available oil. - Original Message - From: goat! To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Predicted Famine It has always been considered prudent to store food by our ancestors, even before the great depression, though there were and are certainly people who were effected by the GD that reinforced the idea above and beyond what some before that might of considered prudent. My grandfather's second wife, for example, would actually save bread ties and bread bags, and such like that, though the family I grew up in, has always considered it prudent to store food, and I don't think they ever lost the idea of doing so from before the GD, and no it had nothing to do with religion (in fact, my family has never been such inclined much). Goat Dennis Lee Wilson wrote: Just do like the Mormons do (or like our ancestors did after they suffered thru the 1929-39 depression), store away at least one year of food. No need to become religious in order to be saved. ---BeginMessage--- Well if we simply eliminated the subsidies that are creating the biofuel industry, food would go back to being consumed for sustenance as opposed to making fuel. And if we removed the controls on refineries and drilling, we would be awash in oil, and if a workable method of thermal depolymerization came to pass (reasonable assumption) -- we would drown in the available oil. - Original Message - From: goat! To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Predicted Famine It has always been considered prudent to store food by our ancestors,even before the great depression, though there were and are certainlypeople who were effected by the GD that reinforced the idea above andbeyond what some before that might of considered prudent. Mygrandfather's second wife, for example, would actually save bread tiesand bread bags, and such like that, though the family I grew up in, hasalways considered it prudent to store food, and I don't think they everlost the idea of doing so from before the GD, and no it had nothing todo with religion (in fact, my family has never been such inclined much).GoatDennis Lee Wilson wrote: Just do like the Mormons do (or like our ancestors did after they suffered thru the 1929-39 depression), store away at least one year of food. No need to become religious in order to be "saved". ---End Message---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Open-source films attack Hollywood | Tech news blog - CNET News.com
From: Dennis Lee Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some time ago on another discussion board (far, far away--I couldn't resist) I suggested that the improvements in computer animation now make it possible to do TPB: The Graphic Animation using Scott's TPB: The Graphic Novel as the story board. The same would work for this virtual studio project. The BHP board isn't that far away on this here Internet thing. And now we have _Roswell, Texas_ fully story-boarded as well. (That one would be rated R due to the nipple count if the government/Holywood conspiracy had any say). And then on to the rest of the LNS canon. Followed by (or intermixed with) adaptations of the Heinlein canon by folks who actually read the books rather than had them briefly described by somebody who hated Heinlein as happened with _Puppet Masters_ and _Starship Troopers_. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play it all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965 ---BeginMessage--- --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9923120-7.html "The Star Wreck Studios team, based in Tampere, Finland, has built a virtual studio for Iron Sky and an open-source platform that gives anybody the chance to make a film at no cost." So when do we start TPB:The Movie? Some time ago on another discussion board (far, far away--I couldn't resist) I suggested that the improvements in computer animation now make it possible to do TPB: The Graphic Animation using Scott's TPB: The Graphic Novel as the story board. The same would work for this virtual studio project. ---End Message---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] This is VERY Important !!!
From: goat! [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man, I love this guy. He is saying exactly what some of us have been saying for a long while now. The key will be to mitigate the things he see coming, and imitating how the soviet population got by to a great extent is the key, and what some of us have been trying to accomplish and pointing out why others should be doing the same thing. Unless you want to be a single leaf on the raging sea, it is imperative to to start reversing the trend of atomization, and start thinking of coming to gather on single properties, as it will be easier for a group of people to maintain a household or property (industrial property is a good choice in some ways, as is farm land), then being atomized. The thing is, that I don't see the trends that got us in the position we are in in this country as an accident, put has been planned to leave us very vulnerable so we can more easily be conquered and subdued. Goat, I'm sorry. You really _do_ have to work on your word usage and your spelling. Here we have a major mistype that completely changes what I hope you meant. I put underscores around the word in question. From your text: as it will be easier for a group of people to maintain a household or property (industrial property is a good choice in some ways, as is farm land), _then_ being atomized. I hope you meant: as it will be easier for a group of people to maintain a household or property (industrial property is a good choice in some ways, as is farm land), _than_ being atomized. Both will pass any spelling or grammar checker on any computer I know of. But _then_ and _than_ are very different words even if they sound almost alike in some accents. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play it all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Fwd: B29
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then again I've often thought of setting up a generator, a water tank, and a balloon with dangling chains as a sort of instant barrage balloon. Helicopters arrive, on goes the generator, hydrogen comes out of the water, up goes the balloon. Make it out of kevlar for extra frustration. Instant? I'd test the speed of generation of hydrogen with that setup if I were you. Might better have a hydrogen tank. EMP-proof too. Or a gaggle of geese. Plus, Kevlar is very porous to small molecules. It comes as thread, not film. In any thickness of Kevlar fabric (I'd assume backed by Mylar to actually hold the gas in) strong enough to stop more than a spitball, it's too fewkin' heavy. (I've actually spent a lot of time researching materials for lighter-than-air systems, since well before El Neil mentioned them in TPB). Electrolysis, yes, is very slow. Speeding it up to a rate to fill an effective barrage balloon would probably (I'd set the odds at 99.999%) cause an explosion. As usual, I hate to agree with Larry, but tanks of gas (hydrogen works, helium is expensive) are the better choice. You can fill the tanks yourself, even using electrolysis, but to do it safely takes time, expensive gear and a gagload of energy. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play it all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Liberty anorexics
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] EXACTLY RIGHT! It is a big mistake to inagine that non-libertarians do not want Liberty for themselves, and that's the problem you have to solve. Au Contraire! EVERYBODY wants Liberty FOR HIMSELF; there are no Liberty Anorexics (or too feww to matter). The problem is that people don't want to extend Freedom to OTHERS. It is a waste of time to try to persuade them to want Liberty - they already want it. Bullshit, Larry. Most people don't want freedom, they want to be told what to do, what to think, what to believe. It's a matter of conditioning from infancy, around ever since we got shoved out of the trees by our bigger cousins but especially since public schools and televangelists showed up. It took me until age 12 to reject religion and the next twelve years (four of which were in the military) to completely reject government. (I'd lost respect for government, which is how I could be in a polyandry, but I still acknowledged its authority). And at that, I think I was faster than most. I still cuss in christian, usually about politicians. Take a poll around your neighborhood and find out how many folks even want freedom for themselves. And ask the ones who say yes what their definition of freedom is. Then ask them where they learned that definition. And report the results, because some of us are really trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong. Whatever it is, the solution requires memetic rather than genetic engineering. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] These histrionics were probably unnecessary, since there was no reason to think anybody would be watching us with more than casual interest until I made my first move to follow Buchanon's trail, in London. Still, somebody might check back this far later, and I always feel that if you're going to play a part, you might as well play iy all the way, at least in public -- and it's hard to tell what's public and what isn't, these electronic days. Donald Hamilton, _The Devastators_, 1965
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
From: Valentine Michael Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you cannot prohibit the free exercise thereof how can you define it? Quoting the father of the dickwad currently infesting the White House: Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
From: Valentine Michael Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] And how pray tell does a religious right get granted by the government? And who gets to decide what is a real religion. Well, the gubmint doesn't decide what is a real religion, but it does decide which churches get tax breaks. Tax breaks can make or break a church. I always figured if _I_ have to pay property taxes, so should the churches up the block (one catlick, one presby) -- and the town maintains their sidewalks, we had to replace ours on our own dime. There's a sign over a side door of the Presby church that says Private Property. I would think that in this sorry town any private property paid property taxes. (I am not arguing in favor of property taxes -- if those religious assholes don't have to pay, neither should anybody else). Well, everybody around here knows I'm an atheist. Some know me as stupid enough to have argued with religious people. (You can't reason somebody out of something he wasn't reasoned into). I don't give a fuck what any government says, there is no such thing as a real religion. Serial and parallel associations of con-men down through the millenia. Each and every fucking one of them. I recommend that everybody read (or reread) _The Jehovah Contract_ by Victor Koman. Chapter 20 is very important. And remember that Goddess is no better than God. Hell, while you're at it reread _Job: A Comedy of Justice_ by Robert Heinlein. (And shit, go on with everything else either of them and Robert Anton Wilson wrote -- it's winter, in some cultures folks used to spend the time reading since that was the break from farming). Oh, and read all of El Neil's books too. It's kind of what brought many if not most of us here. They're good. The graphic novel on-line version of _Roswell, Texas_ recently finished over at www.bigheadpress.com (dead-tree version hopefully showing up in June) and I highly recommend it. It's got nipples and an alien and a lot of people turning out different than they did in our timeline (including Hitler). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:20 AM 1/25/2008, you wrote: And the stuff about the Do as thou wilt as being some sort of pseudo-religious creed cannot be traced back farther than Aleister Crowley - again, 20th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Redehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Re de The Wiccab crede is No way this crap is thousands or even hundreds of years old! Chuckle...and this differs from crap made up thousands of years ago in what regard? In the regard that it is not thousands of years old, as was claimed - THAT after all is what I was responding to. And as was pointed out, what the fuck difference does that make? If a legend of fairies in your garden was invented in the last decade, does that make it less valid than a legend of fairies in your garden invented thousands of years ago? You can talk to folks who personally knew the founders of modern Wicca You can't say that for the traditional religions. I'm an atheist, been so since I first read the KJV cover-to-cover when the Southron Baptists were planning to full-immersion baptize me and save my soul at the age of 12 -- the book I read had been an award for perfect attendance and responses in Sunday school -- I thought that was a big step and decided to read the manual and my life was changed. I got no truck with any of those fantasies. But in my experience, Wiccans have been consistently nicer people than Xtians. True, I was married to a Gardinerian Wiccan for most of a decade, that might distort my view. (Life experience is subjective, not objective, whatever Saint Ayn might say). The Wiccan rede is And it harm none, do what you will. Seems to me to be an acceptable form of the ZAP. You mentioned Crowley, but his line was Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Very different concepts. I respect Crowley (to a point) as a scholar, not as a philosopher, and by all reports he was generally as much of a jackass as you are. He produced a dynamite tarot deck anyway. (I like them as art, I don't attempt to read the future by irrational methods -- Bob Wilson was a friend and teacher, but I can't follow his full path -- one dark night of the soul was enough for me and it happened well before I turned from a lazy libertarian into an anarchist). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
-- Original message -- From: Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 24 January 2008, Valentine Michael Smith was heard to say: Guess you've never heard of wicca. Harm ye none, do as ye will. I wrote it out in talk.politics.libertarian as An it harm none, do as you will and actually had a Wiccan lambast me for bringing religion into the discussion. Some days you just can't win. It would be interesting to collect all those old posts I made 1992-1998, if only to see how much better my spelling is now. :^) You can probably find it. I know damn well Google's archives have drivel I posted as long ago as 1990. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Minarchist?? Actually MINISTATIST is more appropriate!
From: goat! [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zack Bass wrote: --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, goat! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... not that those who want them don't use those who are religious as pawns in the matter. Most are wanted for power and greed, not spirituality Correct. And there are lots of Prohibitive Laws that are not even presented to those who are religious to use them as pawns - like Practicing Medicine Without A License... no one ever supported THAT for a religious reason. They do however take an oath to Apollo. Medicine (as we know it) did get it start in religion. No, that oath is because medical _licensing_ got its start in religion (All of the Greek city-states were pretty thorough theocracies). Medical practice had been around for quite a few millennia previous, even among godless and stateless barbarians. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Star Trek - Did it ever bother you...
-- Original message -- From: Boyd Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did the phrase the needs of the many outwheigh the needs of the few ever bother anyone else? Apparently, it also bothered others. Check out Star Trek Of Gods and Men. It looks like it has a libertarian bent to it. At least I think it may. BWS Is this an episode? a novel? a comic? or other? and which series? The only libertarian Star Trek material I've encountered was the ST:TOS novel _From the Depths_, by Victor Milan, and I've wondered for years how he slipped that by notorious socialist asswipe and Pocket Books main editor for all things Star Trek John Ordover. Well, there has been some _unapproved_ libertarian Star Trek material. J. Neil Schulman did a TNG script on spec and later published it, and Leslie Fish did a number of fanzines (mostly slash), but most are set in a very different parallel universe in no way similar to the canon parallel universes. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Latest Updates
Note: This calendar is rated G, contains no nudity, and is safe for the workplace. Not safe for _my_ workplace. I put up a calendar without bare breasts, the guys in the warehouse will kick my ass. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/ -- Original message -- From: goldrecordings [EMAIL PROTECTED] IN THIS ISSUE -Hotties for Ron Paul Calendar Update
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] FSP Takes Position on Pot (They're for legalizing it)
It'd be nice if you can tell me which words in that paragraph constitute any kind of official endorsement by the official FSP organization. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/ -- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] In an apparent back-tracking on their We're only the Bus motif, and a step toward a return to taking actual positions, the Free State Project recently endorsed the Coalition for Common Sense Marijuana Policy in its FSP News mailing! Can officially opposing Manicurist Licensing be next? Look out, all you anti-drug enthusiasts, the FSP is about to kick you out for Incorrect Advocacy! The New Hampshire Coalition for Common Sense Marijuana Policy has scored some notable successes in its campaign to take advantage of New Hampshire's First in the Nation primary. When candidates visit the Live Free or Die state, they have to answer tough questions about the War on Drugs from NH Common Sense activists. Executive Director Matt Simon writes an article about each candidate encounter and posts it, along with video, at SendTheRightMessage.com, and the last several articles have also been published by The Huffington Post. The campaign is starting to get some major exposure! (And if you think some of these question-asking activists in these videos might be FSP early movers, you might be right!)
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] CRT
-- Original message -- From: Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of you may be interested in this...It seems that Fatherland Security is planning to use clergy to do some of their dirty work. http://tinyurl.com/3dv43x http://tinyurl.com/2z663j Makes no nevermind to me. I'm both an atheist and an anarchist and have no more respect for servants of gods than for servants of governments. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/ ---BeginMessage--- Some of you may be interested in this...It seems that Fatherland Security is planning to use clergy to do some of their dirty work. http://tinyurl.com/3dv43x http://tinyurl.com/2z663j Tu Ne Cede Malis ---End Message---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] LXer: Results Not Surprising: Hackers find serious problems in California voting machines
Curt. You know these things as well as I do. Democracy is no better than any other dictatorship. Voting machines just automate things for them as don't care who nominates but just who counts. As an individualist, I don't care about who nominates, who counts, or who votes. Their prejudi have no influence on my rights or my decisions. In a democracy the mob rules the way it always does, with torches and pitchforks. Those tools are not changed by whatever regime plants its ass in the capitol city. It doesn't matter what arguments you use. What pseudonym is yours in that long conversation I paged through? -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, if you're gonna buy a ticket on the Titanic, you might as well go First Class. Captain Audie Murphy, Texas Ranger, in _Roswell, Texas_ by L. Neil Smith, Rex May and Scott Bieser. http://www.bigheadpress.com/roswell/ -- Original message -- From: Curt Howland [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/25762/ Just wondering if anyone wants to point out an avenue of argument I missed. Subject: Abuses of the state elections system, which I too all the way to anarchy and _The Probability Broach_. Curt- - -- September 11th, 2001 The proudest day for gun control and central planning advocates in American history -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBRrUZLS9Y35yItIgBAQLZVQf+IQ1H0HR0MUI7JiICwwUOQ0PVjPRi5lxU CoWUjFspf+s/5ppdPGRgr5Rx/HXpmYDdq9oMBKD07IMyk33ZQgAbg1xLe7m+F7w7 y2KWVyV1Af8+aY3QV1Mixyfx+Wxv/fD5t2s1hoed4MKJY0zOTorT0MMk+qsaavrj M4DzVubZa+Bc1iF7rQ/oA+RricA1tOLCR0VIXbZ81I+WhgHSmNWMHPi7P1qEO/c2 O9/9Siww49o3I6SjE54at8gfZjNuVyyYGPOncmh5o7pmJ53LMcI///K5glgJuBBU 820R8DXg2uGb+dm7ebS0+9r4zitnV3AIILDL5xJYhlU9mEPowY0qew== =/zz/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Professor Steven Jones has new evidence of controlled demolition. (WTC)
-- Original message -- From: Frank Ney [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:38:41 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You forgot the mass shooting at the Wiccan Outreach Adult Daycare Center. Aren't they usually armed to the teeth? Yeah, but the old farts at the Adult Daycare Center can't aim worth crap. That's why they're there. To get some practice at the range out back. Their kids got tired of shagging the brass and reloading it. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] The reason folks don't think of installing Windows as a painful experience is roughly the same reason men don't think of childbirth as a painful experience. Mike, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/30/letters_3003/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Cody Webb case
-- Original message -- From: Zack Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Frank Ney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/westmoreland/s_501066.html ... since when does failing to admit to a crime you did not commit become cause for a psychiatric evaluation? Heck, I've known kids who denied committing crimes they DID commit, with no indication that they ought to have a psychiatric evaluation. Come to think of it, I have never seen any reason for ANYONE to be subjected to a psychiatric evaluation. Initiate force, die by self-defense. No mental health experts required. Period. Ever. (Just typing that will get me evaluated and probably condemned [or sentenced to very long-term evaluation and regular anal rape] in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey, where defense of self, property or anything else is illegal). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] The reason folks don't think of installing Windows as a painful experience is roughly the same reason men don't think of childbirth as a painful experience. Mike, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/30/letters_3003/
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Item in the TLE #404
-- Original message -- From: Jay P. Hailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] When Madonna and Adult Stars sell sex - it's up to adults nearby to point out that sex is really more fun when you don't feel creepy afterwards. Well, that depends on whether or not creepy is part of the fun. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Carjacking or impoundment? We now have two vocabularies for wrongs, depending on whether private persons or government agents commit them. This is the difference between mass murder and national defense. Between extortion and taxation. Between counterfeiting and inflation. And so on. Other examples will occur to the astute reader. Joseph Sobran
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Unbelievable, totally so
I am without surprise. The man is a worthy successor to Ashcroft. From: ejt [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am without words. Excerpt: Gonzales: 'There Is No Express Grant of Habeas Corpus In The Constitution' http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/gonzales-habeas/ The United States Constitution: http://www.law.emory.edu/cms/site/index.php?id=3081#7659 Section 9 Clause 2: The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Carjacking or impoundment? We now have two vocabularies for wrongs, depending on whether private persons or government agents commit them. This is the difference between mass murder and national defense. Between extortion and taxation. Between counterfeiting and inflation. And so on. Other examples will occur to the astute reader. Joseph Sobran ---BeginMessage--- Title: Unbelievable, totally so I am without words. Excerpt: Gonzales: 'There Is No Express Grant of Habeas Corpus In The Constitution' http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/gonzales-habeas/ The United States Constitution: http://www.law.emory.edu/cms/site/index.php?id=3081#7659 Section 9 Clause 2: The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. -- It is a fine thing to face machine guns for immortality and a medal, but isn't it a fine thing, too, to face calumny, injustice and loneliness for the truth which makes men free? - H. L. Mencken ---End Message---
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] An interesting proposition
It should _never_ been titled the Bill of Rights. That was a serious error from the beginning. It should have been called the Bill of Limitations, as that is what it was -- and the error in naming it haunts us to this day and for many to come, as governments respect no rights and admit to no limitations. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Carjacking or impoundment? We now have two vocabularies for wrongs, depending on whether private persons or government agents commit them. This is the difference between mass murder and national defense. Between extortion and taxation. Between counterfeiting and inflation. And so on. Other examples will occur to the astute reader. Joseph Sobran -- Original message -- From: Jay P. Hailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless you carefully read the BOR. It does not grant any rights, it instead reiterates and protects already existing rights. BWS Is there a more clear statement of the rights inherent in a person? The BOR is a list of restrictions against government action - it illuminates rights by describing where a government should specifically not be allowed to go. I have tried to compose a list A person is the ultimate owner of himself, his mind, his body. etc it becomes unweildy really, really quickly. I am woefully under read and under edjumacated - so I haven't read, say John Locke. BUT I think the BOR gets play because it is a pithy, direct and poetic description of some (but not all) of the rights inherent in a hman being jut for being human. Jay ~Meow!~ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Think about this:
So Boyd, are you now divorced from the armed forces? I note you're posting from a Yahoo account rather than the old .mil account. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] Carjacking or impoundment? We now have two vocabularies for wrongs, depending on whether private persons or government agents commit them. This is the difference between mass murder and national defense. Between extortion and taxation. Between counterfeiting and inflation. And so on. Other examples will occur to the astute reader. Joseph Sobran -- Original message -- From: Boyd Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] But I choose to live and let live. As ong as I am allowed to go about my way unaggressed against, I will not aggress against anyone. Once that line is crossed an appropreate response is dealt. From a warning to a bullet. Which ever is appropreate. BWS --- Wraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:06 AM 12/15/2006, you wrote: Actually I choose to not really care. I have bigger problems to worry about. My bills, my family, my job, my money, my health, my safety and my dreams. Those things are bigger and more immediate and important to me than what happened in Iraq pre-war. I only look at those things in relation to what they mean to me. BWS - Ah...And a group that makes a habit of lying, stealing and killing isn't likely to adopt the same habits here? Tu Ne Cede Malis __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Anyone know what happened to the Smith-2004 list?
Last thing in my mailbox is dated not long after midnight Tuesday night. Sent a test message to the group an hour and some ago, Yahoo bounced it: = We are unable to deliver the message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Your message was sent to a group that does not exist. Please check to make sure you spelled the group name correctly. For further assistance, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ = Looking at my group list, I notice that the Rational Review News Daily doesn't seem to be around either. -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] When you let people do whatever they want, you get Woodstock. When you let governments do whatever they want, you get Auschwitz. Doug Newman -- Original message -- From: Julius No [EMAIL PROTECTED] I cannot find it on Yahoo groups this morning. Did Tom Knapp shut it down? Yahoo falling apart? Unplugged by DHS?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] I am a Recovering American 8 minutes runtime
-- Original message -- From: ejt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sort of like stealing a man's soul Say CHEESE! -- Ward Griffiths mailto:wdg3rd%40comcast.net[EMAIL PROTECTED] So, Ward, what kind of cheese? Well, for most purposes I like good sharp cheddars, for sandwiches I prefer jalapeno jack and for snacking I really love some feta with habenero that I can't find around here lately. For photography I just use a standard Kodak ASA 100, but I guess I should get into digital if I really want to save the souls I steal (with redundant backups). -- Ward Griffiths[EMAIL PROTECTED] When you let people do whatever they want, you get Woodstock. When you let governments do whatever they want, you get Auschwitz. Doug Newman ---BeginMessage--- Title: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] I am a Recovering American Sort of like stealing a man's soul Say CHEESE! -- Ward Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, Ward, what kind of cheese? ET -- It is a fine thing to face machine guns for immortality and a medal, but isn't it a fine thing, too, to face calumny, injustice and loneliness for the truth which makes men free? - H. L. Mencken ---End Message---
