Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Sorry about the delay, kids, I drafted this then had to go to work. Larry, you have never stated clearly any fucking thing except that you want to fuck your pets in your front yard. (And that you want to piss off your neighbors, something I can deal with, but since as long as I live and breathe, my neighbors are already pissed off, I don't need to do anything special). -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:09:38 PM Subject: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jay P Hailey jayphai...@... wrote: People who relish the idea of having a prodctive life on their own terms without initating violence against any one, you sneer at for not meeting your definition of libertarian. Liar. I stated clearly that ALL true Pacifists are by default Libertarians. http://www.ncc-1776.org/whoislib.html A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being for any reason whatever; nor will a libertarian advocate the initiation of force, or delegate it to anyone else. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim. — L. Neil Smith Thus one's MOTIVES are irrelevant. All that matters is that one hold that Moral position and behave accordingly. Which I always do. What I might WANT to do is irrelevant.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
I wrote this on Dec. 24, 2008: --- In smith2004-disc...@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass zak...@... wrote: There is nothing wrong with being a Pacifist. All Pacifists are libertarians by default. Go ahead, look it up, it's Message #10279. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smith2004-discuss/message/102795 See that? I stated it clearly. LIAR. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg...@... wrote: Larry, you have never stated clearly any fucking thing - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zak...@... To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:09:38 PM Subject: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jay P Hailey jayphailey@ wrote: People who relish the idea of having a prodctive life on their own terms without initating violence against any one, you sneer at for not meeting your definition of libertarian. Liar. I stated clearly that ALL true Pacifists are by default Libertarians.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Dear Curt, earn such anger from you? I'm not angry. I wasn't angry when I wrote that. You've never seen me very angry. Nobody on this continent has. I continue to suspect that you don't really care what was written, by whom, in what context, at what time. After all, I really don't care very much. your mouth that you accuse me of not caring? Why should my suspicions be mutated into an accusation? Where is the indication that you give a shit? I'll suspect anything I please. If you think that's a failure of understanding on my part, perhaps that result includes a failure of communication on your part. If you came into it with the nastiness with which you're greeting my scepticism of THEIR opinion, I see. So voicing a suspicion is nastiness. Well, that's entirely fine with me. then I could understand how you wouldn't have to explicitly do it. Of course. I'm obnoxious and disliked, I know it's true. So what? The point of freedom of speech is that it be free, to everyone, even to speak the unspeakable. The fact that Ian Freeman and the Keene crowd are judgemental and chased me off is not a surprise. Nor is it any kind of difficulty for me. I really don't like human beings. When I was two years old my father beat me for walking on a garden hose in the garage. Since then I have been rebellious about everyone and everything. If you believe that I'm supposed to give a fuck, you'll need to explain it in little words. Fair enough. Like you should be any judge of what is fair. It isn't a matter of fair, it is a matter of choice. My choice. Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. I'm still looking for the persons who won't torment anyone, ever.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 01 September 2010, Jim was heard to say: I continue to suspect that you don't really care what was written, by whom, in what context, at what time. After all, I really don't care very much. Projection. Of course. I'm obnoxious and disliked, I know it's true. So what? Got it. Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBTH6aSC9Y35yItIgBAQIM/Qf8DkGQ4HlCNsmfFgLYrlTvwT8Shywetk4E K2VavU6jTB8AMhwVkyWk+J9hyDmVCas8fSHH142TE3Q+YK2y4+1z9pKL0NeF6oYp 91kgam/Do5v14Z4Sc5QI2XkKkorcErrlSC69zcwKDL+Egea370JWLI/xYfw+R3Nh LR8jKgIXGb6nlL750RM29CmvtAsCkxB+CFBF7ywSyKgyqHEmlW95u+axM9mEMOhl hC1wkpivyeFaNG+UnC7oLnRl7aP8imEfOpJKNoMIbYP4EftvygL1jMZPJ76C+g9L WyVEHNt4FW0of0qq3PVXsvST4ClHSia+5Yfbv77kFLTWCuMoTo2jiQ== =T+hw -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Dear Curt, I found it interesting, when your name came up, that the impression you had given was one of initiating violence, not violence in defense. Ian Freeman is a liar. I'm not the first person he has told lies about to justify his childish behaviour. Perhaps if you cared, which I suspect you don't, you would ask to see the actual words written by me, in the context of the original thread, about a pig and a judge bashing one of the activists in Keene and then putting him in a cage. Ask yourself how what I wrote had to do with initiating violence. Personally, I don't give a shit. The people in Keene aren't interested in self-defence, they have no integrity, and I don't wish to speak to them, to attend their events, nor to have aught to do with them. Considering the number of firearms in their midst, it's clear that the impression you received was also in error. I was told what I was told. I believe Ian Freeman is a liar and a hypocrite. I won't have anything to do with him. As usual, virulent disagreements amongst Libs end up being because of misunderstanding. No, not at all. This disagreement arose because people in the Free Keene movement are suspicious, arrogant, and false. Don't come to me with your analysis after the fact. I don't give a shit. Regards, Jim
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass zak...@... wrote: The VAST MAJORITY of people in this country threaten me with Violence By Proxy a hundred times a day. Try neglecting to wear your pants someday. But don't neglect to wear your gun. Never, ever, ever show up to a gun fight with fists.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
who cares about liberty and the principles there of. I'm beginning to lose interest. I'm particularly vexed that homophobic bullies like Jason Talley are respected in the freedom movement. regarded by his peers as a radical, and thus a dangerous individual. I am dangerous. Every human being is dangerous. We're apex predators. And I am way past the point where I have anything to lose.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
I wouldn't say whether there was a moral difference, since I run my life on ethics. Groups mean nothing to me unless they have baseball bats aimed at me (it's illegal to defend yourself with even your fists in New Jersey). I hold to high ethical standards, especially the ZAP, and have no morals (I've been an atheist for a long time), and while asshole that you are you respect neither morals nor ethics, you may know the difference between ethics and morals, you are well-read. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg...@... wrote: I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions You dare to say, in this forum, that there is a Moral difference between the actions of an Individual and the actions of a hundred or a million Individuals in a Group?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Been known to wear the kelt meself, Eric (both dress and great). And me middle name _is_ Donald (was used as my main name until Jr High). I've worn kelts, robes, tunics and other historic-style garments over the decades to avoid jockeys. (Not that that ever helps during the work week, then I'm lucky to get away with camp shorts). -- Ward Donald Griffiths IIIwdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Eric Oppen techno...@intergate.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 9, 2010 11:57:06 AM Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 Quoting Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com: The VAST MAJORITY of people in this country threaten me with Violence By Proxy a hundred times a day. Try neglecting to wear your pants someday. *singing* Let the wind run high, let the wind run low, Thro' the streets in me kilt I'll go, All of the lassies say Hello! Donald, where's your troo-sers?
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Nah, I got an A+ in my college Ethics course, but I still use the terms Morality and Ethics interchangeably. I am in line with Ayn Rand's usage: A code of values accepted by choice is a code of morality. See http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ari_ayn_rand_the_objectivist_ethics When you mention Religion, though, I do believe you are conflating the ideas of SIN and Immorality. Asshole though I may be, I have demonstrated over and over that I *AM* Moral and Ethical, because I follow the Non-Aggression Principle and advocate it at all times - regardless of my baser leanings, I always follow it and hold it as the highest Principle... and that makes me a libertarian, with Morals and Ethics. As Ayn Rand says, it is a code of values accepted by CHOICE by someone who might have motives to choose otherwise; a code of Morality and of Ethics. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg...@... wrote: I wouldn't say whether there was a moral difference, since I run my life on ethics. Groups mean nothing to me unless they have baseball bats aimed at me (it's illegal to defend yourself with even your fists in New Jersey). I hold to high ethical standards, especially the ZAP, and have no morals (I've been an atheist for a long time), and while asshole that you are you respect neither morals nor ethics, you may know the difference between ethics and morals, you are well-read. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@... home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zak...@... --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg3rd@ wrote: I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions You dare to say, in this forum, that there is a Moral difference between the actions of an Individual and the actions of a hundred or a million Individuals in a Group?
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ari_ayn_rand_the_objectivist_ethics the Objectivist ethics is the morality of life -- Ayn Rand --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass zak...@... wrote: Nah, I got an A+ in my college Ethics course, but I still use the terms Morality and Ethics interchangeably. I am in line with Ayn Rand's usage: A code of values accepted by choice is a code of morality. See http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ari_ayn_rand_the_objectivist_ethics When you mention Religion, though, I do believe you are conflating the ideas of SIN and Immorality. Asshole though I may be, I have demonstrated over and over that I *AM* Moral and Ethical, because I follow the Non-Aggression Principle and advocate it at all times - regardless of my baser leanings, I always follow it and hold it as the highest Principle... and that makes me a libertarian, with Morals and Ethics. As Ayn Rand says, it is a code of values accepted by CHOICE by someone who might have motives to choose otherwise; a code of Morality and of Ethics. --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg3rd@ wrote: I wouldn't say whether there was a moral difference, since I run my life on ethics. Groups mean nothing to me unless they have baseball bats aimed at me (it's illegal to defend yourself with even your fists in New Jersey). I hold to high ethical standards, especially the ZAP, and have no morals (I've been an atheist for a long time), and while asshole that you are you respect neither morals nor ethics, you may know the difference between ethics and morals, you are well-read. -- Ward Griffithswdg3rd@ home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller - Original Message - From: Zack Bass zakbas@ --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg3rd@ wrote: I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions You dare to say, in this forum, that there is a Moral difference between the actions of an Individual and the actions of a hundred or a million Individuals in a Group?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
From: Wraith wra...@xmission.com To: LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 8, 2010 1:41:01 PM Subject: Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010 At 09:35 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote: --- In mailto:LibertarianEnterprise%40yahoogroups.comLibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Wraith wra...@... wrote: At 03:47 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote: Sounds like PACIFISTS, not libertarians: ... a movement that rejects the use of violence or coercion http://www.libertopia.org/home/http://www.libertopia.org/home/ http://www.libertopia.org/home/ Since Le Neil is involved, I doubt they are pacifists... ^^ I doubt that many of us actually like violence. But its unfortunately necessary in some cases of initiation. Has nothing to do with LIKING violence or not liking it. It says these folks REJECT violence. Of course, all true Pacifists are by default Libertarians. But only a (one hopes) tiny faction. Violence is never NECESSARY. One can always, in true Pacifist fashion, allow the rapist full access to oneself and one's wives. The problem arises with the faux Pacifists. They oppose Violence so assiduously that they propose to punish me (by Force) when I exact Vengeance. Hypocrisy at its finest. A society of 100% Pacifists would be a place I would enjoy (I would be the only non-Pacifist and would do as I please at all times). A mostly-Pacifist place with fewer than 100% Pacifists would most likely be a hellhole ruled by the first bloodyminded dictator or Church Lady to come across it. Nonsense. Violence IS necessary to the *sane* in certain situations. For exactly the reasons you illustrate. Like the next time we catch Larry with a 10-year-old. I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions unless the individuals have names like Ghandi, Stalin, Truman and Hitler) and have been for decades. I shoot to kill when I have to. I don't want to. I'd rather Larry straightened out his act. (He brags about his polygamy (with imported brides), I don't brag, I just live (with American women)). Larry, you still don't underfuckingstand that pacifism does _not_ conflict with self-defense. -- Ward Griffithswdg...@comcast.net home.comcast.net/~wdg3rd Aim high and you won't shoot your foot off. -- Phyllis Diller
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacifism duh Anarcho-pacifism (also pacifist anarchism or anarchist pacifism) is a form of anarchism which completely rejects the use of violence ***IN ANY FORM FOR ANY PURPOSE***. duh --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass zak...@... wrote: --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg3rd@ wrote: From: Wraith wraith@ I am a pacifist (have you actually looked up the word in the dictionary, Larry, it has nothing to do with individual interactions unless the individuals have names like Ghandi, Stalin, Truman and Hitler) and have been for decades. I shoot to kill when I have to. When I use the term Pacifist, I refer to those people who say that they oppose THE USE OF VIOLENCE. Some of them have posted such shit here. THOSE people are Pacifists who oppose Violence EVEN IN SELF-DEFENSE. Ask Planetary Jim. There really are such morons.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, wdg...@... wrote: Like the next time we catch Larry with a 10-year-old. How does this self-defense of which you speak work? You propose to defend your Self against a 10-year-old boy? What did he ever do to you? He brags about his polygamy (with imported brides), I don't brag, I just live (with American women)). I didn't brag about anything, I responded to the Libel in which you accused me of masturbatory hallucinations. I showed that you were mistaken, it is not a hallucination. (I have videos too.) But... are American women somehow better for bragging rights, in your estimation? Is that what you're on about? Anyhow, only one of my wives is Imported, I complained quite clearly that I have not been Allowed to import the other one, that's the PROBLEM. Okay. Here is the relevant joke: Chauncey is chauffeuring The Queen and runs into a limousine driven by his old nemesis, Worthington. Chauncey leaps out of his car and says, Can't you drive? You moron! Worthington replies, Keep your voice down. Are you aware that Lady Smedley is in my car? Whereupon Chauncey runs to his car, throws open the door to reveal The Queen, and yells, And what do you think this is, a piece of shit?
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
bump --- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Zack Bass zak...@... wrote: There is Violence, namely the hunting down and punishing of offenders AFTER THE FACT, that is neither Initiation of Force nor Defense. If one opposes this hunting down AFTER THE FACT, then one is without recourse when he arrives home to find his family already raped.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jay P Hailey jayphai...@... wrote: I will not do business with you. I will have as little to do with you as possible. http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext00/remus11.txt I don't keer w'at you do wid me, so you don't fling me in dat brierpatch. Roas' me, but don't fling me in dat brierpatch. Robert Blake and I are simply crushed.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Quoting Zack Bass zak...@gmail.com: The VAST MAJORITY of people in this country threaten me with Violence By Proxy a hundred times a day. Try neglecting to wear your pants someday. *singing* Let the wind run high, let the wind run low, Thro' the streets in me kilt I'll go, All of the lassies say Hello! Donald, where's your troo-sers? This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Sounds like PACIFISTS, not libertarians: ... a movement that rejects the use of violence or coercion http://www.libertopia.org/home/ Then DON'T GO! Hurr Durr! Jay ~Meow!~
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jay P Hailey jayphai...@... wrote: Sounds like PACIFISTS, not libertarians: ... a movement that rejects the use of violence or coercion http://www.libertopia.org/home/ Then DON'T GO! Hurr Durr! What's your point? Someone fucks up a press release and I'm the bad guy for catching it? Every criticism or value judgment of any sort on this Group is henceforth going to draw your eloquent denunciation?
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
What's your point? Someone fucks up a press release and I'm the bad guy for catching it? Every criticism or value judgment of any sort on this Group is henceforth going to draw your eloquent denunciation? Who elected you to decide who's a libertarian or not? You're making an arrogant assumption that your opinions define facts. Yes, I will make fun of you for that, unless I have something better to do. Jay ~Meow!~
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
The problem arises with the faux Pacifists. They oppose Violence so assiduously that they propose to punish me (by Force) when I exact Vengeance. Hypocrisy at its finest. No. anyone who initiates violence against you oor anyone foolish enough to accept you as their agent, is buying all the bloody violent, angry twisted revenge you can imagine. So when someone steps on Joe's grass trying to get a better view of a passing parade, and you torture them to death for trespassing - technically you'e in the right. But you're not there for justice, you're not there for restitution, you're looking for a rationalization to enact your own anger and violent fantasies. I will not do business with you. I will have as little to do with you as possible. I may well say hurr durr! at you, if I'm not doing anything else at that moment. You're hiding behind the NAP, when really all you want to do is get an excuse to have Vengeance against Bad Guys. And then you say that people who don't agree with your rationalization aren't Real libertarians. People who relish the idea of having a prodctive life on their own terms without initating violence against any one, you sneer at for not meeting your definition of libertarian. That calls for a Hurr Durr or two cast your way. And if you exact bloody, violent, tortuous vengeance against someone and it turns out that you were WRONG about your victim having initiated force, I'd promise to point and laugh, except that it would be a total tragedy and net loss for all of us. Violence, vengeace and insanity are the exception, not the rule. What are you going to be doing to produce something for a customer if we ever get to a truly free society? How will you put bread on the table when no one shows up to volunteer for a gun fight with you?
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
Violence is never NECESSARY. One can always, in true Pacifist fashion, allow the rapist full access to oneself and one's wives. Yes, I believe this was the position of pacifist libertarian Robert LeFevre. It is clearly the position of Joyce Brand. Violence used in self-defence is not acceptable. See my previous post on Joe Stack. I ran into the same nonsense on the Free Keene forum. Violence used in self-defence is not acceptable. Well, too bad, people. I don't give a shit whether you think self-defence is acceptable or not. I'll say what I please.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
I had been invited to speak at Libertopia, and had agreed to do so. Then I wrote about Joe Stack flying a plane into an IRS building. Jason Talley pronounced me an idiot, Joyce Brand agreed. Talley also had a number of outrageously homophobic things to say in his rants against me on Google Buzz. So I withdrew from speaking. Several years ago I was invited to speak at FreedomFest 2005. But Mark Skousen made it clear at a convention in New Orleans in November 2004 that any member of the audience who disagreed with anything I said should be entitled to beat me up. Skousen actually staged such a fight between Doug Casey and a disgruntled marine who didn't like something Casey had said. Naturally, I withdrew from speaking at FreedomFest. I won't ever speak at Libertopia. I won't ever speak at FreedomFest. These are my choices, and they are not negotiable.
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 08 August 2010, Jim was heard to say: I ran into the same nonsense on the Free Keene forum. Violence used in self-defence is not acceptable. Well, too bad, people. I don't give a shit whether you think self-defence is acceptable or not. I'll say what I please. I found it interesting, when your name came up, that the impression you had given was one of initiating violence, not violence in defense. Considering the number of firearms in their midst, it's clear that the impression you received was also in error. As usual, virulent disagreements amongst Libs end up being because of misunderstanding. Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBTF9SsC9Y35yItIgBAQLNEwf+JzKWZw44vAxMWq1Q2s+N2sBszVUOBrPC hruo4Fp5uEKw9/TqYlCbJRnJ4irRKz/JhxeC+S6wuqObsO4/pupLry3IISFdPZaO XlP70QCZ8MW7U1hVdeRUTvmA6gJGPN0ozCQ2xNzSvwWGs7FbtlpUGDCqg1HNS3o5 s50FkLeWoF5YKEQOnLH48Dzkltsw4kr8knQo7t6Lg96pLdKYlNh9s1zzJDS2kTG0 iAU/5P7Jx3R4/Uj+uSWPbY+n+ycOQs2bkuucSqI8JdpoiTV59oLbG9n45nD2aenF 11Rpbx3GWxLwiciFtdI9GR6Y9L2KJkCtk3odMF/hUdhWt93S0M/ygg== =AoCw -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
At 06:00 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote: I had been invited to speak at Libertopia, and had agreed to do so. Then I wrote about Joe Stack flying a plane into an IRS building. Jason Talley pronounced me an idiot, Joyce Brand agreed. Talley also had a number of outrageously homophobic things to say in his rants against me on Google Buzz. So I withdrew from speaking. Several years ago I was invited to speak at FreedomFest 2005. But Mark Skousen made it clear at a convention in New Orleans in November 2004 that any member of the audience who disagreed with anything I said should be entitled to beat me up. Skousen actually staged such a fight between Doug Casey and a disgruntled marine who didn't like something Casey had said. Naturally, I withdrew from speaking at FreedomFest. I won't ever speak at Libertopia. I won't ever speak at FreedomFest. These are my choices, and they are not negotiable. That's too bad Jim. I've almost always enjoyed your articles. I may not always agree with you on everything, but you've always struck me as an intelligent, thoughtful person who cares about liberty and the principles there of. Not to place too fine a point on this, but you remind me of this generations Patrick Henry. He as you well know, was also widely regarded by his peers as a radical, and thus a dangerous individual. History has shown the truth of his fears about the expansion of the central government established by the federalists. I'd not place too much stock on the opinions of various LINO's. They are much closer to one or the other aspect of our one party state, than they are libertarians.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Jay P Hailey jayphai...@... wrote: People who relish the idea of having a prodctive life on their own terms without initating violence against any one, you sneer at for not meeting your definition of libertarian. Liar. I stated clearly that ALL true Pacifists are by default Libertarians. http://www.ncc-1776.org/whoislib.html A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being for any reason whatever; nor will a libertarian advocate the initiation of force, or delegate it to anyone else. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim. L. Neil Smith Thus one's MOTIVES are irrelevant. All that matters is that one hold that Moral position and behave accordingly. Which I always do. What I might WANT to do is irrelevant.
[LibertarianEnterprise] Re: Libertopia 2010
--- In LibertarianEnterprise@yahoogroups.com, Curt Howland curt.howl...@... wrote: I found it interesting, when your name came up, that the impression you had given was one of initiating violence, not violence in defense. False dichotomy. There is Violence, namely the hunting down and punishing of offenders AFTER THE FACT, that is neither Initiation of Force nor Defense. If one opposes this hunting down AFTER THE FACT, then one is without recourse when he arrives home to find his family already raped.
