Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Alex, On 2011-05-03 at 14:52 +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote: The question will also arise when testing nightly/daily builds as to which branch of the repo actually represents the build - my understanding is that the nightly/daily is from master - this is not the same as the feature/string frozen branch of a future release, even if the changes/bug fixes are pushed back to master afterwards. http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Linux_x86_Release_Configuration/libreoffice-3-4/ http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Linux_x86_64_Release_Configuration/libreoffice-3-4/ http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/MacOS/libreoffice-3-4/ Some of the tinderboxes cover master, but most important at this stage is of course the release branch; these are builds of exactly the code that is going to be tagged as betas / RCs. Regards, Kendy ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Le 04/05/11 09:20, Jan Holesovsky a écrit : Hi Kendy, Some of the tinderboxes cover master, but most important at this stage is of course the release branch; these are builds of exactly the code that is going to be tagged as betas / RCs. Thanks for the links, I'd already noticed that they existed, but most of the time, they didn't seem to be populated with anything. I see that the last daily for which files are available for MacOSX was 28/04, even though there were successful builds at later dates. How is a tester to know what the correlation is between any build of a given date and a beta or rc ? How do I know whether stuff that fails on, say the build of 28/04, has not been fixed by the later date builds, if those aren't available for me to compare ? I'm just trying to understand what it is we are actually supposed to be testing with regard to Michael's comments that we use the nightly builds for QA. As you can see, I am quite confused at the moment. Alex ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Alex, On 2011-05-04 at 10:31 +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Some of the tinderboxes cover master, but most important at this stage is of course the release branch; these are builds of exactly the code that is going to be tagged as betas / RCs. Thanks for the links, I'd already noticed that they existed, but most of the time, they didn't seem to be populated with anything. I see that the last daily for which files are available for MacOSX was 28/04, even though there were successful builds at later dates. That's unfortunate :-( - Norbert, please, it seems something went wrong with the MacOSX tinderbox, it does not upload any recent build, can you check? How is a tester to know what the correlation is between any build of a given date and a beta or rc ? According to the date/time of the tagging - when the date is eg. something after the tagging of Beta3, but before Beta4, you have - well - something in between Beta3 and Beta4. So far the tinderboxes do not do automatic builds of exactly the tag when introduced, but I hope we'll update them soon to be able to do such a thing. How do I know whether stuff that fails on, say the build of 28/04, has not been fixed by the later date builds, if those aren't available for me to compare ? So - in 99% of cases, the bugs do _not_ go away by themselves. So if you have a bugreport where the developer eg. says it has been fixed and pushed to libreoffice-3-4, just compare the date/time of such a message and the date of the nightly build of the libreoffice-3-4 branch - before that date, it is supposed to be broken, after that, it is supposed to be fixed. If there is no such a bug report, the probability the bug will be fixed is quite low. I'm just trying to understand what it is we are actually supposed to be testing with regard to Michael's comments that we use the nightly builds for QA. As you can see, I am quite confused at the moment. First of all - if the build starts / ends / loads / saves several documents. If it does not, we have a serious problem, and the probability is high that the same problem will be in the next beta / RC. Please note that 'build does not start' belongs to the Most Annoying Bugs, to have the proper attention. Then of course you eg. want to test the new functionality, like from the planned release notes: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.4 Regards, Kendy ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Jan Could this also be the case for daily Windows builds? There is a single daily build (from April 20th) at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Windows_Release_Configuration/ -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/REMINDER-Release-3-4-0-rc1-from-ooo-build-3-2-1-branch-string-and-UI-freeze-tp2889339p2898158.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Plino, On 2011-05-04 at 03:20 -0700, plino wrote: Could this also be the case for daily Windows builds? There is a single daily build (from April 20th) at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Windows_Release_Configuration/ There have been troubles with random hangs of that box - Fridrich, any update there, please? Thank you, Kendy ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Also I can't see nothing populated here Linux_x86_64_Release_Configuration/ Linux_x86_Release_Configuration/ Cheers, Antón 2011/5/4 Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz: Hi Plino, On 2011-05-04 at 03:20 -0700, plino wrote: Could this also be the case for daily Windows builds? There is a single daily build (from April 20th) at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/Windows_Release_Configuration/ There have been troubles with random hangs of that box - Fridrich, any update there, please? Thank you, Kendy ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice -- Antón Méixome - Blog about Galician Office Suite Galician community OOo.org LibO http://blog.openoffice.gl // http://blog.libreoffice.gl ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
On 2011-05-04 at 13:22 +0200, Anton Meixome wrote: Also I can't see nothing populated here Linux_x86_64_Release_Configuration/ Linux_x86_Release_Configuration/ Eh? Click the libreoffice-3-4/ subdir, or describe your problem better. Kendy ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
On 5/4/11, Jan Holesovsky ke...@suse.cz wrote: That's unfortunate :-( - Norbert, please, it seems something went wrong with the MacOSX tinderbox, it does not upload any recent build, can you check? I won't be able to fix it until friday (on the road, and that machine is _not_ accessible remotely) ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 21:28 +0300, Sophie Gautier wrote: Yes I do too, but the issue is that we didn't test the betas at all yet due to this bug Which sucks; hopefully the Windows Mac builds have been use-able for testing - and of course, the snapshots of them. and it covers a quiet large range of distributions. So, may be we should really take time to test the RC fully before really calling it an RC and spread the word around it. The danger of this - is that by introducing further delay into the release pipeline - we slow down our ability to respond to bugs that are found, and since we are releasing a build per week anyway - we can only really choose to miss out a week: which isn't that wonderful :-) Already we only have a few days to fix a bug in RCn and get the fix out in RCn+1. -Far- better for people to be running and using the daily snapshot releases and reporting bugs against them - instead of waiting for RCs (per-se). Having said that - warning that RC1 may be a bit rough in the release notes is a good idea :-) - although, given that this is caused by some obscure compiler problem - apparently only present on the gross / old system we compile the binaries on for Linux, I'm optimistic that once it is fixed we'll not be in such terrible shape. ATB, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Michael, On 03/05/2011 13:30, Michael Meeks wrote: On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 21:28 +0300, Sophie Gautier wrote: Yes I do too, but the issue is that we didn't test the betas at all yet due to this bug Which sucks; hopefully the Windows Mac builds have been use-able for testing - and of course, the snapshots of them. Not sure about Mac, but I think we have a lot of testers under Linux. and it covers a quiet large range of distributions. So, may be we should really take time to test the RC fully before really calling it an RC and spread the word around it. The danger of this - is that by introducing further delay into the release pipeline - we slow down our ability to respond to bugs that are found, and since we are releasing a build per week anyway - we can only really choose to miss out a week: which isn't that wonderful :-) Already we only have a few days to fix a bug in RCn and get the fix out in RCn+1. -Far- better for people to be running and using the daily snapshot releases and reporting bugs against them - instead of waiting for RCs (per-se). Yes agreed, there is a lot of room for improvement on the testing side. But betas are supposed to be tested too :) Having said that - warning that RC1 may be a bit rough in the release notes is a good idea :-) But a RC1 is supposed to be a release candidate, so how could it be rough? I mean I understand all the reasons you have given above about correction of bugs, etc. And I know we have a good part of responsibility for not pointing the stopper at the good time. What I'm trying to highlight also here is the communication. It's quiet frustrating to not be able to install a version when you want to contribute to tests, and having a RC that is rough sound strange for me. - although, given that this is caused by some obscure compiler problem - apparently only present on the gross / old system we compile the binaries on for Linux, I'm optimistic that once it is fixed we'll not be in such terrible shape. Ok, let see. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Kendy, Jan Holesovsky wrote (03-05-11 11:17) Please - what went wrong that this serious bug has not appeared among the 3.4 Most Annoying Bugs? Without that, it was impossible to focus on this - it just stayed hidden among the flow of the other 'normal' bugs. I guess it's partly my fault, cause I expected the problem to be picked up, cause it was mentioned on some lists long ago. A bit naive, but attracting in times of large work loads :-) And please, do you have suggestions what can we do to stress / get to the public knowledge that: - to get the proper attention to the real blockers, they _must_ appear in the Most Annoying Bugs [https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35673] - the Most Annoying Bugs are meant for really serious bugs only, and not for my favorite red button should be blue, and that such bugs will be removed from there - daily builds [http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/] are important, and can be used for testing even between betas, ie. the next day after the bug is fixed, and pushed to the repository AFAIAC, I mention those regularly on the Dutch lists. We need time to get this in the minds (and hearts) of the people. Kind regards, Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi Michael, Michael Meeks wrote (03-05-11 12:30) On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 21:28 +0300, Sophie Gautier wrote: Yes I do too, but the issue is that we didn't test the betas at all yet due to this bug Which sucks; hopefully the Windows Mac builds have been use-able for testing - and of course, the snapshots of them. But are we relative sure that this does that give enough feedback from people we can expect to help testing? and it covers a quiet large range of distributions. So, may be we should really take time to test the RC fully before really calling it an RC and spread the word around it. The danger of this - is that by introducing further delay into the release pipeline - we slow down our ability to respond to bugs that are I don't see this problem. The current build scheme can be kept, just in the naming there will be a shift. found, and since we are releasing a build per week anyway - we can only really choose to miss out a week: which isn't that wonderful :-) Already we only have a few days to fix a bug in RCn and get the fix out in RCn+1. -Far- better for people to be running and using the daily snapshot releases and reporting bugs against them - instead of waiting for RCs (per-se). Yes, but as mentioned before: people have to get used to this way of working. Plus that still the snapshots (and betas) will replace the stable version, which does not help testing too. So that are all pointers that we are risking quality. Having said that - warning that RC1 may be a bit rough in the release notes is a good idea :-) - although, given that this is caused by some I will have to advice people to be very careful with installing a RC1 that has been probably tested rather little and is to replace the stable version and also introduces a lot of changes in our code base. obscure compiler problem - apparently only present on the gross / old system we compile the binaries on for Linux, I'm optimistic that once it is fixed we'll not be in such terrible shape. I try to share your optimism, but would feel far more comfortable with an intermediate step looking at the very special situation. Would it bring someone in big trouble? Kind regards, Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Le 03/05/11 12:30, Michael Meeks a écrit : Hi Michael, Which sucks; hopefully the Windows Mac builds have been use-able for testing - and of course, the snapshots of them. Unfortunately, both beta1 and beta2 refused to start on my Mac, that kind of leaves potential volunteer testers with a bitter taste in their mouth that their time could be better spent elsewhere despite their willingness to help out grin. As to using the nightly builds, well, I would say fine, if, and only if: (a) they are actually available - speaking for Mac, this has not been a regular occurrence for a while ; (b) you can easily install it next to your production version of LO, without it destroying your stable environment. Of course, on Mac, the solution is relatively simple, but it still involves : (a) renaming your stable app bundle name to something other than the string LibreOffice ; (b) renaming your /Library/Applications Support/LibreOffice folder to the same string as your newly renamed stable app ; (c) installing the test version (be it beta, rc, or nightly). That is a lot of effort for people who are keen to help out by just testing to see if the app actually works !! Then they have to run the battery of tests (still to be defined), and/or pick their favourite module to test on, etc. Knowing that any extensions they might want to test (other than bundled) also have to be reinstalled each time they install a new test version, it makes for a rather painstaking testbed setup. Hence, all the hooha about re-activating the dev switch so that at least the testers can install a version of LibO which, in theory, will be an independent, self-contained launchable version. Personally, I get by with a mix of nightly build (when available) and the betas, rcs, etc as and when they are released. However, I would like to point out that currently, testing of nightly builds and reporting of incidents related thereto seems to bear less weight with the devs than the betas or rcs, probably because if it is reported on the dev mailing list, then it can go unnoticed in the flow of patches flying back and forwards (which would seem fairly logical). My current understanding is that the QA Litmus framework is not yet quite ready for prime time, so in the meantime we still need a mechanism whereby anything we discover in the nightly builds does not remain under the radar. Bugzilla obviously doesn't appear to cater for such an eventuality as yet. The question will also arise when testing nightly/daily builds as to which branch of the repo actually represents the build - my understanding is that the nightly/daily is from master - this is not the same as the feature/string frozen branch of a future release, even if the changes/bug fixes are pushed back to master afterwards. Master potentially contains all sorts of stuff that will not be in the future final release branch, or have I misunderstood something ? Alex ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 13:02, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/05/2011 13:30, Michael Meeks wrote: Having said that - warning that RC1 may be a bit rough in the release notes is a good idea :-) But a RC1 is supposed to be a release candidate, so how could it be rough? I agree. If it's still a bit rough, it should be called a beta version instead of a RC. Regards, Kevin ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Hi all, On 02/05/2011 19:23, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Christian Lohmaier wrote: Before you release any version as RC, make sure the build can actually be started. There has not been a response/solution to http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-April/011243.html / https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36275 yet. yet Petr mentions it'll be fixed for rc1, so I'd trust him there. :) Yes I do too, but the issue is that we didn't test the betas at all yet due to this bug, and it covers a quiet large range of distributions. So, may be we should really take time to test the RC fully before really calling it an RC and spread the word around it. Kind regards Sophie ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-l10n] Re: REMINDER: Release 3.4.0-rc1 from ooo-build-3-2-1 branch == string and UI freeze
Sophie Gautier wrote (02-05-11 20:28) Yes I do too, but the issue is that we didn't test the betas at all yet due to this bug, and it covers a quiet large range of distributions. So, may be we should really take time to test the RC fully before really calling it an RC and spread the word around it. Good suggestion Sophie! Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
