Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> On 7/7/19 4:35 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > I now possess a copy of the offending .docx document and the PDF > version of it. (It contains 1.6MB, so it will take some time.) > Tomorrow, I will be determining what is necessary to fix it. Rather > than guess as to what would be required, I will find out. I think this > would be much more useful for others. I will report back when I am > finished. I will be grateful, but I am afraid this document is beyond help, however I have to deal with it, that is to modify and to save so that other MS Word users can read and print it. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 08/07/19 03:04, Dan Lewis wrote: > One thing I do know: an .odt file is based on styles. The only codes > that are used are styles. This is obvious when looking at the > Content.xml file in the .odt zipped file. Word Perfect has a different > set of codes which it uses. I do not see any correlation between the > two. Without this, how can a do more than pretend to convert LO's > styles from WP's "reveal codes"? I don't get this ,,, which could be why this thread has been so long. WordPerfect has styles. Reveal Codes is nothing really to do with styles. Unless of course this is the old chestnut of "people use reveal codes to see the formatting". Would you call "bold" a style? Would you call a graphics box a style? The point is, reveal codes showed all of this. So if I used styles for my document, in my reveal codes window I might see [style:chapter:on]Chapter 1[style:chapter:off] or if I didn't know about styles particularly it would be [bold:on]Chapter 1[bold:off] and if I double-clicked the [chapter] "character" it would call up the style definition dialog, while if I clicked the [bold] "character" it would call up the font format dialog. A picture would appear as a character something like [graphics box:URI]. Etc etc. Can I ask how many people here have actually *used* WordPerfect and Reveal Codes, and how many people are simply going on what they've been told about reveal codes? Reveal Codes is a markup window. Those markups might happen to be styles. They might not. Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 7/7/19 4:35 PM, Wols Lists wrote: On 07/07/19 17:06, Tor Lillqvist wrote: For the reference: we have a bug report since 2011 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34002 and the corresponding openoffice bug report from 2002 is linked in the ticket... Which should be a good indication that the request is unreasonable. I think you mean "impractical" :-( How is it unreasonable for support guys to want to be able to debug their lusers' documents? How is it unreasonable for people like me to want to use a modern word processor, but be able to use it in a manner that we are comfortable, rather than be forced into a "one size fits all" extremely uncomfortable fairy tale bed ... I was serious when I suggested that Uwe's best case for fixing his documents was to "save as plain text" and start again. Bit tricky if the document is full of graphics and other stuff ... Cheers, Wol I now possess a copy of the offending .docx document and the PDF version of it. (It contains 1.6MB, so it will take some time.) Tomorrow, I will be determining what is necessary to fix it. Rather than guess as to what would be required, I will find out. I think this would be much more useful for others. I will report back when I am finished. Additional observation as in a personal opinion: this discussion has grown to a great length without really solving the problem. Such was the case for similar discussions before. (I seem to remember that one time it involved OOo prior to 3.0.) One thing I do know: an .odt file is based on styles. The only codes that are used are styles. This is obvious when looking at the Content.xml file in the .odt zipped file. Word Perfect has a different set of codes which it uses. I do not see any correlation between the two. Without this, how can a do more than pretend to convert LO's styles from WP's "reveal codes"? Dan ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 07/07/19 17:06, Tor Lillqvist wrote: > > For the reference: we have a bug report since 2011 > https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34002 > and the corresponding openoffice bug report from 2002 is linked in the > ticket... > > > Which should be a good indication that the request is unreasonable. > I think you mean "impractical" :-( How is it unreasonable for support guys to want to be able to debug their lusers' documents? How is it unreasonable for people like me to want to use a modern word processor, but be able to use it in a manner that we are comfortable, rather than be forced into a "one size fits all" extremely uncomfortable fairy tale bed ... I was serious when I suggested that Uwe's best case for fixing his documents was to "save as plain text" and start again. Bit tricky if the document is full of graphics and other stuff ... Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 07/07/19 16:42, Dennis Roczek wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > For the reference: we have a bug report since 2011 > https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34002 > and the corresponding openoffice bug report from 2002 is linked in the > ticket... > I notice the bug report mentions being able to edit/delete the formatting codes. If the macros implement THAT then this sounds a lot more promising. Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi Tor, On 07.07.2019 18:06, Tor Lillqvist wrote: > > For the reference: we have a bug report since 2011 > https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34002 > and the corresponding openoffice bug report from 2002 is linked in the > ticket... > > > Which should be a good indication that the request is unreasonable. Well or nobody wanted to invest the money/time in such a specialized fea ture and "better" invest the same time / money for "interoperability" of MS formats. It is a specialized feature for power users and thus the amount of potential users is very, VERY low. But that doesn't mean that the "few users" of this feature would fell in love. Hence read the forum entries: there are so many users who try to get the old WordPrefect somehow working... It is similar to old Opera12 users using the browser for special cases and miss many of these features in other browsers (luckily finally Vivaldi is catching up as a drop-in-replacement!) > --tml Best, Dennis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/ iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEhYmMfFabYko4V91Tzj5B/c4qttkFAl0iK9MACgkQzj5B/c4q ttm1HhAAxr3a2TOMXgmejTyibheG8wmReDye75hUiqgC0GGxH0GToJdlMUSrgsgB nzyIq5cXAOMtpS/36YGjrbGtenx7DgglrjY9cikW4HFOQBFj2fm1WgodTLFCEfCA MYeXOTNixoKJXjcyPSmUfGmDHPTUrRQODgKfrgft5PV9wlHXyU4hMccWSBs5FTyJ xqLJSJYsFtf29U3vCKQ9lZb8IwGjEP7zt/8V3Q0KEr/YkatsjRl523aFFwK/P9vU qaIAn0rPsEv6rrVWpAmQTHEGwmQfgV/SHBE6eUKtG8zy0oPqTeEgTcYn4gw7aEbE NieMJyzdDDpxrOtu/IB1g+PJX8HuuLibbUL4rcQw5DKB0Hi8GqP/aKKqbbArTeGb reSS/zTmChT8jZa4Te1fA2kN/P6zMTWjqkt4BnNWNGWHac7ts2aRrDzU0Rzagssz 6RQvMnrAbCPoZx5AeFB3zuI5XDByUkc5tQzsyMnYLrRZ6cZvrtCgJGWaq1QjvF+A k99HPA5VZPDbCLCAg+Ed4TAlIzbLFz+swH7aInsOmRmcX31s8MX0T4yLonLalBij xrE3glueAbpyJPAwuKQHIEmjSvAUZ2z15KKqrbs11KBKOhC9IqUewSFo258yPjQS E/1nVeujEzJ4C+Qac6rJlzx+1+L4msv4pjPvKbwop1QxVn87Nkk= =hWHU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> > > For the reference: we have a bug report since 2011 > https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34002 > and the corresponding openoffice bug report from 2002 is linked in the > ticket... > Which should be a good indication that the request is unreasonable. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi everybody, For the reference: we have a bug report since 2011 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34002 and the corresponding openoffice bug report from 2002 is linked in the ticket... Best regards, Dennis Roczek On 04.07.2019 12:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: > > > From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support > Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature could > be implemented by a macro/extension. > > Now I remember that long time ago such macros existed and using the > wayback machine I found them. They were written around 2005 for OO 1.2, > using the sxw format. > > I tried them out in LO 6.2 and they don't work. > > Is there somebody with enough knownledge in macros to translate those > macros to LO 6.2? > > Thanks and regards > > Uwe Brauer > > ___ > LibreOffice mailing list > LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org > https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/ iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEhYmMfFabYko4V91Tzj5B/c4qttkFAl0iEvYACgkQzj5B/c4q ttlQsw/9GqIBE9E+2AhB29Yn2ztGD4hHAU+4Twh5CL7rykbALiGQXQ60ISQH/zVZ OuEAt60ugKdC40p6xVpzcDE4xcfVZyG5S0ViTkNHzqLUEQ01zrlA5bYYTRKVetY3 Son3HawDHz3ONlhSozBUhkTeX4P3Ly0kBVcR7i12V3dFgQmvcts5gZJ/ya3HGOpG YeAHRjTmX4tBFwgJ9QHrrn+Hm7Q+xTVvYb9I09pf13lhGdQlvRkqUwrN9P+zsFLu t9BA7A6iiYtVFnx/+VVRIjRpk8gvJq8JMYmzHzKnYCrGkxDbibHba1AF60u9ULAB uvVdSBIwLDkiN3qh+zrkRlUxHks4dvmhE1E1FPkgHaPA7X1SfrVX0L8w8wDWp4AR 8I4xJRPhHPKIaNCN6rvcrxc8lLQ/R0ve0lC/UIZefPORcxQzO5IIzObVAoy/mUjT zK12LqAcLNoqyeI6E4wdbbxlKKNC3x+ItiEXaKDsZ8JuxRsgk22vQgAawNpsrxwk jCysbklW27dtoaD8E66T2/KvahQDOdV9R8kMdbaAULiaVEXebOg0IM9wI5NgEyzG Sikfi7C6gu//fKLxn1w34+NgweMfM6yYIG0byVmX/DP4j3p/ADnlzKpNr8Q4ul6+ M97yn6ltyPu9YyXFS6Ihwj49DZMdtNXMuQv1bX6tG3cmEjwAJMM= =3yAy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> On 06/07/19 07:36, Uwe Brauer wrote: > Plus I'm a *text* guy. MS is very much a *visual* company (as are most > people, actually). So the MS way of doing things is alien to me - the WP > way of "here's a gui, this drops into the text setup behind it" is just > *so* *easy*. If you are really a *text* guy, I'd recommend you to give GNU emacs a shot. Nowadays it comes with org mode, which is a sort of ASCII/UTF8 based enhanced text mode, including a very good table editor and best of all you can export it to all sort of formats, odt for example, if you use pandoc you can even save it to docx. https://orgmode.org/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 06/07/2019 22:31, Ralf Quint wrote: On 7/6/2019 1:00 PM, Tor Lillqvist wrote: You seem to hate a lot. Try to get over it. +1 I'm a bit of a "grumpy old man", sorry ... :-) Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 7/6/2019 1:00 PM, Tor Lillqvist wrote: You seem to hate a lot. Try to get over it. +1 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
You seem to hate a lot. Try to get over it. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 06/07/19 07:36, Uwe Brauer wrote: > >> On 05/07/19 13:14, Uwe Brauer wrote: > >> And all I am saying is that the feature you describe sounds to me >> NOTHING LIKE reveal codes, and personally I can't see any use for it. >> The Word equivalent is "show formatting" which - like I said - was >> ignored by lusers and power users alike because they couldn't see any >> use for it. > > My motivation was partiall caused by a MS Word document, which I had to > edit and the mark up was distorted by LO (most likely this file was > written 15 ago and then saved in different formats). So I hoped a reveal > code feature would help to understand what is the problem and where. Sonething I heard years ago when comparing Word and WordPerfect ... when working with Word, what you're supposed to do is type the text in, then go back and format it. When working with WordPerfect, you're supposed to hint to the program what the text is (sounds like styles to me), and let WordPerfect format it for you. So if you've got a Word document giving you grief, sounds like the best thing is to "save as text", and then just start again with the layout. > >> Do you know lilypond and frescobaldi? > > I am using LaTeX on a daily basis (with GNU Emacs) and use LO and > friends only on certain occasions. So you don't have to convince me on that. > I'd rather use a modern word processor (so I can share documents with lusers) that doesn't force me to work in "luser mode". That was why WordPerfect doubled its market share in the early 90s (20% to 40% in about 3 years) before MS pulled its dirty tricks campaign and killed it. An example of the difference between the two companies ... users wanted labels. The WordPerfect guys said "what actually is the functionality here - users want a *logical* page which is a label, and lots of them on a *physical* page which is your Avery sheet. So that's what they did, they separated the physical from the logical, and provided a "quick-n-easy" configuration helper so you could just pull in the correct setting, or create your own. Next minute, people were using this to create A5 logical pages on A4 physical and printing off booklets. MS created a labels wizard, and then then created a booklet wizard (both of which I hate, because they are luser tools that force me to do what MS thinks I want rather than what I think I want). Okay, WordPerfect then created a booklet wizard that took all the printing hassle away, but the difference is that WP *helped* you, while MS said "this is the way you have to do it". Plus I'm a *text* guy. MS is very much a *visual* company (as are most people, actually). So the MS way of doing things is alien to me - the WP way of "here's a gui, this drops into the text setup behind it" is just *so* *easy*. Another little thing (that illustrates this) is "hidden text". MS thought they would add the "comments" feature, but yet again it's a pale imitation that is a *useless* copy. Keeping a quiz sheet and an answer sheet in sync is a pain in the neck, isn't it? Not in WordPerfect it isn't!!! You just create your answer sheet, adding the attribute "hidden text" to all your answers - just like the attributes "bold" or "italic" or whatever. And in the "View" menu is a check-box "show hidden text". If that's ticked, all the hidden text behaves exactly like normal text. If it's unticked, it all disappears into a markup box. So you just print the same document twice, once in each mode, and there's your quiz sheet you hand out, and your answer sheet for you to give them out at the end. I'd LOVE to have that in LO, too. But without reveal codes, how are you going to get it to work? Because how are you going to show hidden text in your wysiwyg window because if the box isn't ticked there's nowhere to show it? I use Writer because I hate it less than Word. But both of them share the same visual outlook on life, which I want to get away from ... Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
>>> "TL" == Tor Lillqvist writes: >> >> >> >> The issue is, what if you force to deal with docx and you run into >> problems? > The data structure inside a .docx has very little relationship to the > internal data structures inside LO, so it would be extremely hard to > display "codes" from the .docx in the LibreOffice UI. > What you can do is unzip the .docx, edit the .xml files inside, update them > into the .docx? For some specific mechanical mass changes, or trivial > detail changes, that you can't do in LO, might work. That I tried of course, I even installed the oxygen xml editor, but it was hopeless. The xml files of the docx where just a mess. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 06/07/19 10:27, Tor Lillqvist wrote: > > > The issue is, what if you force to deal with docx and you run into > problems? > > > The data structure inside a .docx has very little relationship to the > internal data structures inside LO, so it would be extremely hard to > display "codes" from the .docx in the LibreOffice UI. Like wise between Word and WordPerfect. But personally, I don't care about that. The structure in Reveal Codes is a perfect match for a WordPerfect document. I would like a Reveal-Codes-like window in Writer that is a perfect match for Writer documents. It just makes working in your word processor of choice *SO* much easier. > > What you can do is unzip the .docx, edit the .xml files inside, update > them into the .docx? For some specific mechanical mass changes, or > trivial detail changes, that you can't do in LO, might work. > My biggest uses for reveal codes were (a) it was my editing window of choice, (b) when somebody comes to you for help you *can* *see* *WHY* their document wasn't doing what they expected, and (c) it gave me *complete* control of whatever I was doing. When the company I worked for moved to Word, it was forever doing all sorts of weird things, and especially when trying to provide support to other users, it was an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE because you had no way of finding out WHY (and hence stopping) Word from doing all those stupid things you didn't want. Oh - and when you were helping another user "fix" their document, you didn't need to know where in the menus / on the keypad all these functions were that they were using that you didn't know where they'd came from. You just double-clicked on the code, and it opened up the configuration window. Or you just deleted the code and the formatting went away. etc etc. Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> > > > The issue is, what if you force to deal with docx and you run into > problems? The data structure inside a .docx has very little relationship to the internal data structures inside LO, so it would be extremely hard to display "codes" from the .docx in the LibreOffice UI. What you can do is unzip the .docx, edit the .xml files inside, update them into the .docx? For some specific mechanical mass changes, or trivial detail changes, that you can't do in LO, might work. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
>>> "TL" == Tor Lillqvist writes: > No. There are no "codes" to "reveal" in LibreOffice. > If you want to use a markup format, use a markup format, in a plain text > editor. Simple as that. LaTeX for instance. I think you miss the point and I am saying that as long time user of latex, (daily basis) using GNU emacs. The issue is, what if you force to deal with docx and you run into problems? Then that feature might be useful. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
No. There are no "codes" to "reveal" in LibreOffice. If you want to use a markup format, use a markup format, in a plain text editor. Simple as that. LaTeX for instance. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> On 05/07/19 13:14, Uwe Brauer wrote: > And all I am saying is that the feature you describe sounds to me > NOTHING LIKE reveal codes, and personally I can't see any use for it. > The Word equivalent is "show formatting" which - like I said - was > ignored by lusers and power users alike because they couldn't see any > use for it. My motivation was partiall caused by a MS Word document, which I had to edit and the mark up was distorted by LO (most likely this file was written 15 ago and then saved in different formats). So I hoped a reveal code feature would help to understand what is the problem and where. > Do you know lilypond and frescobaldi? I am using LaTeX on a daily basis (with GNU Emacs) and use LO and friends only on certain occasions. So you don't have to convince me on that. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> On 05/07/19 13:15, Uwe Brauer wrote: > THANK YOU VERY MUCH! > I've never seen that, but I've got the linux WP8 somewhere, plus licence > keys, so I'll have to try. I run gentoo, so it'll be a bit different, > but ... :-) BTW, the relevant files mentioned, you will find via https://archive.org/web/ If you are successful please let me know. The problem of course is, this is WP from 2005, so you most likely won't be able to open recent MS Word documents.[1] Regards Uwe Footnotes: [1] BTW, it was a MS Word document, which I had to edit and which drove me crazy because the mark up was distorted by LO. This was one of the reasons why I thought reveal code would be useful, to get a hint what is wrong and where. Finally I could edit the file in kingsoffice. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 05/07/19 13:14, Uwe Brauer wrote: > >> On 05/07/19 09:16, Uwe Brauer wrote: >> Sorry but that completely misses the point. If it's read-only I won't >> even bother to learn how to use it ... > > The point is: > > Since almost 10 years people are demanding such a feature and nothing > happened. > > All I am saying is: if a read only feature can be _easily implemented_, > then maybe more people will start even to consider such a feature as > being useful and the pressure to have it as «a power tool» will grow. And all I am saying is that the feature you describe sounds to me NOTHING LIKE reveal codes, and personally I can't see any use for it. The Word equivalent is "show formatting" which - like I said - was ignored by lusers and power users alike because they couldn't see any use for it. Do you know lilypond and frescobaldi? That can be set up so that you work in a text editor, and the output is constantly updated in a pdf. THAT is what I want in "reveal codes" - not something that tells me what the formatting is, but something that *lets me work in a text window* but shows me what the result will look like. Your macros mean I'm still stuck in the wysiwyg windows where I *D*O*N*T* want to be, so why would I be interested in your code? Sorry but everybody who tries to implement a reveal-codes-alike always seems to focus on the fact that it shows you what the formatting is. They always miss the fact that it ALSO allows you to EDIT said formatting, and *this* is what power users value (and as I say lusers don't value the fact that you can see the formatting, which means that nobody values that). > > The alternative would be «shut up and how me your code», but I can't > provide you the feature you desire, because I know almost nothing about > LO internals. > Well, all I know about LO internals is that Michael Meeks said it would be a very big job to refactor everything so that a real "reveal codes" was even possible :-( Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 05/07/19 13:15, Uwe Brauer wrote: "Wl" == Wol's lists writes: > >> On 04/07/2019 11:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: > >> And yes, I would dearly love to have reveal codes back - so much so >> that I am seriously considering shelling out for an up-to-date copy of >> WordPerfect, but sadly I suspect Corel have butchered it. WP8 was >> ported to linux, but that requires libc5, and I'm not aware of any >> newer linux compatible version (WP9, aka WP2000, was implemented on >> top of Wine, but I've never managed to get Wine to run WordPerfect 8 >> or earlier, which are the "real" versions. WP9 was the Corel Windows >> re-write - yeuch!!!) > > Did you try this? > https://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-998675.html > THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I've never seen that, but I've got the linux WP8 somewhere, plus licence keys, so I'll have to try. I run gentoo, so it'll be a bit different, but ... :-) Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 7/4/19 8:06 AM, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Hi Uwe, Uwe Brauer wrote: Is there somebody with enough knownledge in macros to translate those macros to LO 6.2? Perhaps - I'd suggest you upload them somewhere (provided they are available under an open source license) & post a link here. Preferably as a bug report at bugs.documentfoundation.org; you can include a description on how to run them / what is expected to work there. All the best, -- Thorsten ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice I see in the two threads on this topic that there is a much discussion without looking at what is the basics of the ODT layout. I this is a mistake, and here is why. I have some .sxw files from which I had earlier an .odt copy. From them I obtained the following information: This is the ODT layout: Which types of data source can OpenOffice.org use? • A database server using Java Database Connectivity (JDBC). • A database server using Open Database Connectivity (ODBC). • The built-in dbase source. • The built-in Adabas source. • ActiveX data objects (ADO) -only available on Windows. • Text files. • Spreadsheets. • Address Books. The help manual that comes with OpenOffice.org does a good job of describing these data sources and how to connect to them. Use Help>Contents>Database Functionality>Data Sources. This is the styles markup of it: Which types of data source can OpenOffice.org use? A database server using Java Database Connectivity (JDBC). A database server using Open Database Connectivity (ODBC). The built-in dbase source. The built-in Adabas source. ActiveX data objects (ADO) -only available on Windows. Text files. Spreadsheets. Which types of data source can OpenOffice.org use? A database server using Java Database Connectivity (JDBC). A database server using Open Database Connectivity (ODBC). The built-in dbase source. The built-in Adabas source. ActiveX data objects (ADO) -only available on Windows. Text files. Spreadsheets. Address Books. The help manual that comes with OpenOffice.org does a good job of describing these data sources and how to connect to them. Use HelpContentsDatabase FunctionalityData Sources. Address Books. The help manual that comes with OpenOffice.org does a good job of describing these data sources and how to connect to them. Use HelpContentsDatabase FunctionalityData Sources. The markup comes directly from the Content.xml file of either the .sxw or .odt file. I should mention for those who wondered but did not know: the mark up for both files (.sxw, its .odt copy) is identical. To open the Content.xml, rename the .odt or .sxw file to .zip. Then unzip it. When opening Content.xml, use a browser or similar program which will give you an outline layout. Each of these styles (L1, P3, P4, P5) are defined in the beginning lines of Content.xml. For example, L1 contains the styles for "List 1"; P3 contains the styles for "Heading 3". P4 and P5 both use the paragraph style "text body"; P4 also contains the list-item style "L1". Search for P4 in the Content.xml beginning from the top to see this. Looking at the markup above, I do not see any way to get "reveal codes". I do think a macro is possible which would reveal the styles used for a given part of a document in outline form as above. It would have to gather that information from the Content.xml file. Could it then expand the name of given style such as L1, P3, P4, p5 so that it would appear in place of the style name? For example, becomes style:parent-style-name="Text body" style:list-style-name="L1"> (This would replace the tag used in the text with the tag used in the list of definitions at the beginning of Content.xml. Comments: Perhaps this could be called "reveal styles"? Also one personal point that I learned back when OOo 1.14 was the latest version: Do not use direct formatting for any reason. That is what styles are for. In the long run, direct formatting does not save any time even when you make no errors with them. But needing to change some of the direct formatting can be very time consuming! A few years ago, someone needed a "pamphlet" formatted which I did for her using styles. Later she wanted to change some of the characteristics of a heading. All I had to do was to change the settings for that heading style. This took seconds, and all of that particular heading now had
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
Hi! On 04.07.2019 20:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: > > > From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support > Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature could > be implemented by a macro/extension. > > Now I remember that long time ago such macros existed and using the > wayback machine I found them. They were written around 2005 for OO 1.2, > using the sxw format. Great that you have interest for bringing the power features to LO. I'm curious what the "reveal code" feature looks like in WP, and what it looked like in OOo with the said macros? Personally I would love to see a greatly reworked style manager, with ability to show the settings applied to any piece of text in layers - from most basic (paragraph style, with its inheritance) through possibly several character styles, to the top manual formatting, where one could easily see the structure - with all intermediate properties - of what we see as the result. Possibly something like modern browsers' object inspectors. But I'm afraid that there's no "codes" in LO (if I understand it right - my understanding is that it shows something like "xml tags" or some such) - and if I'm right, then trying to fake the actual "property set"-based architecture into "codes" would result in much effort with small output. -- Best regards, Mike Kaganski ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
>>> "Wl" == Wol's lists writes: > On 04/07/2019 11:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: > And yes, I would dearly love to have reveal codes back - so much so > that I am seriously considering shelling out for an up-to-date copy of > WordPerfect, but sadly I suspect Corel have butchered it. WP8 was > ported to linux, but that requires libc5, and I'm not aware of any > newer linux compatible version (WP9, aka WP2000, was implemented on > top of Wine, but I've never managed to get Wine to run WordPerfect 8 > or earlier, which are the "real" versions. WP9 was the Corel Windows > re-write - yeuch!!!) Did you try this? https://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-998675.html smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
> On 05/07/19 09:16, Uwe Brauer wrote: > Sorry but that completely misses the point. If it's read-only I won't > even bother to learn how to use it ... The point is: Since almost 10 years people are demanding such a feature and nothing happened. All I am saying is: if a read only feature can be _easily implemented_, then maybe more people will start even to consider such a feature as being useful and the pressure to have it as «a power tool» will grow. The alternative would be «shut up and how me your code», but I can't provide you the feature you desire, because I know almost nothing about LO internals. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 05/07/19 09:16, Uwe Brauer wrote: "AP" == Andrew Pitonyak writes: > >> So I read your response to say... >> If it is a read only display them it is not worth the time to bother with >> it... > >> That is certainly easier than trying to make it work :-) > > I would say, read only is a first step and if users start to like it > then maybe the developer are more inclined to make it editable too. > Sorry but that completely misses the point. If it's read-only I won't even bother to learn how to use it ... Bear in mind this is a POWER USER tool. You're basically saying "if users like Acrobat Reader we might re-write it to be like Word". Not going to fly !!! You're suggesting *exactly* what MS did in the '95 time frame, when all the power users howled how useless the Word version was, and all the lusers didn't even realise it existed. WordPerfect power users spend nearly all their time in Reveal Codes. I had my screen split 2/3 Reveal Codes, 1/3 wysiwyg, and most of the time I ignored the wysiwyg. Think of people who used to work in things like Wordstar, using markup. They used to print the document to see how it would come out. I used the wysiwyg the same way. Reveal Codes is a markup editor, treating each individual markup code as a single character so you can cursor past the codes, double-click the code to bring up the dialog box to alter it, etc etc. Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
>>> "Wl" == Wol's lists writes: > On 04/07/2019 11:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: >> >> From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support >> Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature could >> be implemented by a macro/extension. > Bear in mind that "reveal codes" is an EDITING window. That was what > was wrong with MS's pale imitation. So if your macros merely display > the formatting of a paragraph, that is NOT NOT NOT "reveal codes", and > any WordPerfect lover will simply ignore it. > And yes, I would dearly love to have reveal codes back - so much so > that I am seriously considering shelling out for an up-to-date copy of > WordPerfect, but sadly I suspect Corel have butchered it. WP8 was > ported to linux, but that requires libc5, and I'm not aware of any > newer linux compatible version (WP9, aka WP2000, was implemented on > top of Wine, but I've never managed to get Wine to run WordPerfect 8 > or earlier, which are the "real" versions. WP9 was the Corel Windows > re-write - yeuch!!!) You could try a virtual machine with Ubuntu 5.04 which still relies on lib5c. ;-) I managed to obtain the relevant WP files from some obscure ftp server, but they don't run on Ubuntu 16.04 precisely on that reason. If you manage to run them on a modern Ubuntu version, please let me know. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
>>> "AP" == Andrew Pitonyak writes: > So I read your response to say... > If it is a read only display them it is not worth the time to bother with > it... > That is certainly easier than trying to make it work :-) I would say, read only is a first step and if users start to like it then maybe the developer are more inclined to make it editable too. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
So I read your response to say... If it is a read only display them it is not worth the time to bother with it... That is certainly easier than trying to make it work :-) Sent from BlueMail On Jul 4, 2019, 10:26 PM, at 10:26 PM, Wols Lists wrote: >On 05/07/19 03:15, Wol's lists wrote: >> On 04/07/2019 11:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: >>> >>> From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support >>> Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature >could >>> be implemented by a macro/extension. >> >> Bear in mind that "reveal codes" is an EDITING window. That was what >was >> wrong with MS's pale imitation. So if your macros merely display the >> formatting of a paragraph, that is NOT NOT NOT "reveal codes", and >any >> WordPerfect lover will simply ignore it. > >As a quick example - which illustrates its power - I seem to remember a >post to this list a week or so ago which said "if the first thing in a >writer document is a table, how do I put something in front of it?". >Word struggles with this, writer struggles with it ... > >In WordPerfect, in RevealCodes, just click *in front* of the [table-on] >code, and start typing ... easy peasy !!! > >Cheers, >Wol >___ >LibreOffice mailing list >LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org >https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 05/07/19 03:15, Wol's lists wrote: > On 04/07/2019 11:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: >> >> From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support >> Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature could >> be implemented by a macro/extension. > > Bear in mind that "reveal codes" is an EDITING window. That was what was > wrong with MS's pale imitation. So if your macros merely display the > formatting of a paragraph, that is NOT NOT NOT "reveal codes", and any > WordPerfect lover will simply ignore it. As a quick example - which illustrates its power - I seem to remember a post to this list a week or so ago which said "if the first thing in a writer document is a table, how do I put something in front of it?". Word struggles with this, writer struggles with it ... In WordPerfect, in RevealCodes, just click *in front* of the [table-on] code, and start typing ... easy peasy !!! Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
On 04/07/2019 11:08, Uwe Brauer wrote: From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature could be implemented by a macro/extension. Bear in mind that "reveal codes" is an EDITING window. That was what was wrong with MS's pale imitation. So if your macros merely display the formatting of a paragraph, that is NOT NOT NOT "reveal codes", and any WordPerfect lover will simply ignore it. And yes, I would dearly love to have reveal codes back - so much so that I am seriously considering shelling out for an up-to-date copy of WordPerfect, but sadly I suspect Corel have butchered it. WP8 was ported to linux, but that requires libc5, and I'm not aware of any newer linux compatible version (WP9, aka WP2000, was implemented on top of Wine, but I've never managed to get Wine to run WordPerfect 8 or earlier, which are the "real" versions. WP9 was the Corel Windows re-write - yeuch!!!) Iirc Michael Meeks said that properly implementing reveal codes will be quite tricky as it will need a major clean-up of the in-memory document format to enable editing to work. Cheers, Wol ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
>>> "TB" == Thorsten Behrens writes: > Hi Uwe, > Uwe Brauer wrote: >> Is there somebody with enough knownledge in macros to translate those >> macros to LO 6.2? >> > Perhaps - I'd suggest you upload them somewhere (provided they are > available under an open source license) & post a link here. Whats about that? They are under GPL https://web.archive.org/web/20180326030224/http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/hillview/OOo/ > Preferably as a bug report at bugs.documentfoundation.org; you can > include a description on how to run them / what is expected to work > there. For that I most likely need 1.1 to run (not sure whether this is possible to do under Ubuntu 16.04) Uwe smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
Hi Uwe, Uwe Brauer wrote: > Is there somebody with enough knownledge in macros to translate those > macros to LO 6.2? > Perhaps - I'd suggest you upload them somewhere (provided they are available under an open source license) & post a link here. Preferably as a bug report at bugs.documentfoundation.org; you can include a description on how to run them / what is expected to work there. All the best, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Reveal code, old macros convert them to LO
From time to time the question pops up whether LO could support Wordperfects reveal code. Sometimes it is stated that this feature could be implemented by a macro/extension. Now I remember that long time ago such macros existed and using the wayback machine I found them. They were written around 2005 for OO 1.2, using the sxw format. I tried them out in LO 6.2 and they don't work. Is there somebody with enough knownledge in macros to translate those macros to LO 6.2? Thanks and regards Uwe Brauer ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
