Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Wols Lists]

On 18/01/2022 00:20, Andrew Pitonyak wrote:


On Monday, January 17, 2022 17:17 EST, Wol  wrote:

On 14/01/2022 22:24, Wols Lists wrote:
> On 14/01/2022 21:26, Chris Sherlock wrote:
>> I will work on a patch for Linux that parses /etc/os-release with a
>> fallback to just the kernel version if that is not available
>> (virtually all desktop systems use systemd now).
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Okay, it's mostly the mad hold-outs, but Devuan, funtoo, gentoo, that's
> three distros off the top of my head that don't default to systemd. And
> they're the ones (gentoo especially) that devs might well be running.
>
> I think a sane set of options from uname is much better. That's pretty
> much guaranteed to be universal, I believe, and you could even make the
> options a user-specified matter should they be mad enough to want to.
>
Just looked at /etc/os-release (as you may have guessed my gentoo system
does run systemd), and the ONLY useful information you'll get from it is
"Gentoo Linux".
So for those people who want more than just the distro name, os-release
is not enough.

anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME $ cat /etc/os-release
NAME=Gentoo
ID=gentoo
PRETTY_NAME="Gentoo/Linux"
ANSI_COLOR="1;32"
HOME_URL="https://www.gentoo.org/";
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.gentoo.org/support/";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.gentoo.org/";
anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME $

Cheers,
Wol
I like the "PRETTY_NAME" and VERSION_ID as provided by /etc/os-release, 
and this is usually enough for most people. I commonly ask people which 
version of their OS they are running, but I rarely ask for more details 
than that; although I will admit that a certain Windows 10 release was 
not supporting something I was doing.


What do you show from /proc/version? Lots of useful information ther, 
but, I need to work harder to recognize that my primary computer is 
running FEDORA.


[andy@DESKTOP-6U3CUIF ~]$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 5.15.13-200.fc35.x86_64 
(mockbu...@bkernel01.iad2.fedoraproject.org) (gcc (GCC) 11.2.1 20211203 
(Red Hat 11.2.1-7), GNU ld version 2.37-10.fc35) #1 SMP Wed Jan 5 
16:39:13 UTC 2022



anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME/Sphinx/docs $ cat /proc/version
Linux version 5.10.76-gentoo-r1 (root@thewolery) (gcc (Gentoo 11.2.0 p1) 
11.2.0, GNU ld (Gentoo 2.37_p1 p0) 2.37) #1 SMP Sun Nov 14 17:30:04 GMT 2021

anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME/Sphinx/docs $

Cheers.
Wol

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Andrew Pitonyak]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 17:17 EST, Wol  wrote:
 On 14/01/2022 22:24, Wols Lists wrote:
> On 14/01/2022 21:26, Chris Sherlock wrote:
>> I will work on a patch for Linux that parses /etc/os-release with a
>> fallback to just the kernel version if that is not available
>> (virtually all desktop systems use systemd now).
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Okay, it's mostly the mad hold-outs, but Devuan, funtoo, gentoo, that's
> three distros off the top of my head that don't default to systemd. And
> they're the ones (gentoo especially) that devs might well be running.
>
> I think a sane set of options from uname is much better. That's pretty
> much guaranteed to be universal, I believe, and you could even make the
> options a user-specified matter should they be mad enough to want to.
>
Just looked at /etc/os-release (as you may have guessed my gentoo system
does run systemd), and the ONLY useful information you'll get from it is
"Gentoo Linux".
So for those people who want more than just the distro name, os-release
is not enough.

anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME $ cat /etc/os-release
NAME=Gentoo
ID=gentoo
PRETTY_NAME="Gentoo/Linux"
ANSI_COLOR="1;32"
HOME_URL="https://www.gentoo.org/";
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.gentoo.org/support/";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.gentoo.org/";
anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME $

Cheers,
WolI like the "PRETTY_NAME" and VERSION_ID as provided by /etc/os-release, and 
this is usually enough for most people. I commonly ask people which version of 
their OS they are running, but I rarely ask for more details than that; 
although I will admit that a certain Windows 10 release was not supporting 
something I was doing. 

What do you show from /proc/version? Lots of useful information ther, but, I 
need to work harder to recognize that my primary computer is running FEDORA. 

[andy@DESKTOP-6U3CUIF ~]$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 5.15.13-200.fc35.x86_64 
(mockbu...@bkernel01.iad2.fedoraproject.org) (gcc (GCC) 11.2.1 20211203 (Red 
Hat 11.2.1-7), GNU ld version 2.37-10.fc35) #1 SMP Wed Jan 5 16:39:13 UTC 2022



 

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Wol]

On 14/01/2022 22:24, Wols Lists wrote:

On 14/01/2022 21:26, Chris Sherlock wrote:
I will work on a patch for Linux that parses /etc/os-release with a 
fallback to just the kernel version if that is not available 
(virtually all desktop systems use systemd now).


Are you sure?

Okay, it's mostly the mad hold-outs, but Devuan, funtoo, gentoo, that's 
three distros off the top of my head that don't default to systemd. And 
they're the ones (gentoo especially) that devs might well be running.


I think a sane set of options from uname is much better. That's pretty 
much guaranteed to be universal, I believe, and you could even make the 
options a user-specified matter should they be mad enough to want to.


Just looked at /etc/os-release (as you may have guessed my gentoo system 
does run systemd), and the ONLY useful information you'll get from it is 
"Gentoo Linux".
So for those people who want more than just the distro name, os-release 
is not enough.


anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME $ cat /etc/os-release
NAME=Gentoo
ID=gentoo
PRETTY_NAME="Gentoo/Linux"
ANSI_COLOR="1;32"
HOME_URL="https://www.gentoo.org/";
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.gentoo.org/support/";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.gentoo.org/";
anthony@thewolery ~/gitstuff/ScarletDME $

Cheers,
Wol

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Friday, 2022-01-14 02:38:34 +1100, Chris Sherlock wrote:

> On 12 Jan 2022, at 2:45 pm, Kohei Yoshida  wrote:
> > Excel these days returns correct system information, instead of just always 
> > returning "Windows (32-bit) NT 5.01".  It was my understanding that we 
> > couldn't change the string because that's what Excel always returned back 
> > in the old days.  So I assume that's where the "compatibility reasons" 
> > clause comes from.  Maybe Eike can clarify whether I remember this 
> > correctly.

You do.

> > I believe I heard that originally from Daniel Rentz who was the expert on 
> > all things Excel at the time.

Yes, and back then the goal was to strive for compatibility and that NT5
didn't even change for some Windows versions, IIRC.

> > Since the situation has changed today, I think it's reasonable for Calc to 
> > return correct system info as well, and update the help text along with it.

That's reasonable. For Windows and MacOS we should return a string
similar to what Excel returns, if not identical (for identical systems).
Taking system versions into account where they do.

For *iX I think we have every freedom we want. Maybe something like
uname -sro
but cut the -r part after the micro version (so omitting patch level and
whatever distribution info).

  Eike

-- 
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Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Saturday, 2022-01-15 08:26:22 +1100, Chris Sherlock wrote:

> > Though, maybe we could add the word "Linux" somewhere just in case someone 
> > may use this to try to detect Linux platform independent of distros?
> 
> That’s very reasonable. 
> 
> My only issue now, however, is how to expose this. Currently the SalInstance 
> getOSVersion for macOS gives a string Mac OS X 11.6.2, my patch at 
> https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/127921 changes it to something like:
> 
> Macintosh (Intel) Version 11.6.2 (Build 20G314)
> 
> Are people happy with this change?

If that resembles what Excel returns then yes.


> I will work on a patch for Linux that parses /etc/os-release with a fallback 
> to just the kernel version if that is not available (virtually all desktop 
> systems use systemd now).

Please bear in mind that GNU/Linux isn't the only *iX platform
supported. In ./configure in 'case "$host_os" in' there is the '_os'
variable set to the build platform at least, so that's an indicator of
possible variants.

  Eike

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Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Friday, 2022-01-14 21:13:00 +, Wols Lists wrote:

> anthony@thewolery /usr/qmsys/terminfo/p $ uname -osrv
> Linux 5.10.76-gentoo-r1 #1 SMP Sun Nov 14 17:30:04 GMT 2021 GNU/Linux

The -v (kernel version) IMHO is unnecessary.

  Eike

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Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Wols Lists]

On 14/01/2022 21:26, Chris Sherlock wrote:

I will work on a patch for Linux that parses /etc/os-release with a fallback to 
just the kernel version if that is not available (virtually all desktop systems 
use systemd now).


Are you sure?

Okay, it's mostly the mad hold-outs, but Devuan, funtoo, gentoo, that's 
three distros off the top of my head that don't default to systemd. And 
they're the ones (gentoo especially) that devs might well be running.


I think a sane set of options from uname is much better. That's pretty 
much guaranteed to be universal, I believe, and you could even make the 
options a user-specified matter should they be mad enough to want to.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Chris Sherlock]

Hi Kohie,

>> I would prefer the string to be in the format:
>> Fedora 17 (Beefy Miracle) Kernel: 5.xxx (whatever it might be)
>> This is close to what is returned for the Mac and Windows versions.
> 
> To me that's a very reasonable format of choice.
> 
> Though, maybe we could add the word "Linux" somewhere just in case someone 
> may use this to try to detect Linux platform independent of distros?

That’s very reasonable. 

My only issue now, however, is how to expose this. Currently the SalInstance 
getOSVersion for macOS gives a string Mac OS X 11.6.2, my patch at 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/127921 changes it to something like:

Macintosh (Intel) Version 11.6.2 (Build 20G314)

Are people happy with this change?

I will work on a patch for Linux that parses /etc/os-release with a fallback to 
just the kernel version if that is not available (virtually all desktop systems 
use systemd now).

Chris

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Wols Lists]

On 14/01/2022 16:01, Kohei Yoshida wrote:

Hi Chris,

On 13.01.2022 20:14, Chris Sherlock wrote:


I would prefer the string to be in the format:

Fedora 17 (Beefy Miracle) Kernel: 5.xxx (whatever it might be)

This is close to what is returned for the Mac and Windows versions.


To me that's a very reasonable format of choice.

Though, maybe we could add the word "Linux" somewhere just in case 
someone may use this to try to detect Linux platform independent of 
distros?


Just find some reasonable set of uname flags. uname by itself is pretty 
worthless (my system just returns "Linux"). -osrv seems a reasonable set...



anthony@thewolery /usr/qmsys/terminfo/p $ uname -a
Linux thewolery 5.10.76-gentoo-r1 #1 SMP Sun Nov 14 17:30:04 GMT 2021 
x86_64 AMD Ryzen 3 1300X Quad-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux


anthony@thewolery /usr/qmsys/terminfo/p $ uname
Linux

anthony@thewolery /usr/qmsys/terminfo/p $ uname -osrv
Linux 5.10.76-gentoo-r1 #1 SMP Sun Nov 14 17:30:04 GMT 2021 GNU/Linux

Cheers,
Wol

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Kohei Yoshida]

Hi Chris,

On 13.01.2022 20:14, Chris Sherlock wrote:


I would prefer the string to be in the format:

Fedora 17 (Beefy Miracle) Kernel: 5.xxx (whatever it might be)

This is close to what is returned for the Mac and Windows versions.


To me that's a very reasonable format of choice.

Though, maybe we could add the word "Linux" somewhere just in case 
someone may use this to try to detect Linux platform independent of 
distros?


Kohei

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Chris Sherlock]

> On 14 Jan 2022, at 10:24 am, Leyan Ouyang  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1/13/22 17:27, Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 13/01/2022 15:57, Kohei Yoshida wrote: 
>>> On 13.01.2022 10:38, Chris Sherlock wrote: 
>>> 
 That’s my take also. But apparently, it isn’t important on Linux so we 
 shouldn’t change it. Because no-one uses Excel on Linux, therefore 
 they would never use this function if they use Linux. 
>>> 
>>> I wasn't there obviously so I don't know the nuance of the discussion. But 
>>> the fact that nobody uses Excel on Linux means we have a bit of freedom to 
>>> decide what to return there since we are not bound by the compatibility 
>>> concerns, rather than just declaring "we shouldn't change it".  That'd be 
>>> my take. 
>>> 
>>> Of course, I don't have a skin in the game, so I'll leave the final 
>>> decision to whoever is more appropriate. 
>>> 
>> I remember hearing somewhere there is an official port of Excel for linux 
>> (and I used to run it under Wine), so some people do. 
>> 
>> Although whether the "official port" is Office 365 running in the browser I 
>> don't know. Maybe I should try it, I do have a subscription :-( See what it 
>> returns. 
>> 
> I just tried it, it is not recognized in the online version. This is 
> mentioned in the documentation as well: "Note: The INFO function is not 
> available in Excel Web App." 
> (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/info-function-725f259a-0e4b-49b3-8b52-58815c69acae).

I would prefer the string to be in the format:

Fedora 17 (Beefy Miracle) Kernel: 5.xxx (whatever it might be)

This is close to what is returned for the Mac and Windows versions.

It shouldn’t be too hard to parse /etc/os-release

Chris

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Leyan Ouyang]

On 1/13/22 17:27, Wols Lists wrote:

On 13/01/2022 15:57, Kohei Yoshida wrote:

On 13.01.2022 10:38, Chris Sherlock wrote:


That’s my take also. But apparently, it isn’t important on Linux so we
shouldn’t change it. Because no-one uses Excel on Linux, therefore
they would never use this function if they use Linux.


I wasn't there obviously so I don't know the nuance of the 
discussion. But the fact that nobody uses Excel on Linux means we 
have a bit of freedom to decide what to return there since we are not 
bound by the compatibility concerns, rather than just declaring "we 
shouldn't change it".  That'd be my take.


Of course, I don't have a skin in the game, so I'll leave the final 
decision to whoever is more appropriate.


I remember hearing somewhere there is an official port of Excel for 
linux (and I used to run it under Wine), so some people do.


Although whether the "official port" is Office 365 running in the 
browser I don't know. Maybe I should try it, I do have a subscription 
:-( See what it returns.


I just tried it, it is not recognized in the online version. This is 
mentioned in the documentation as well: "*Note: *The INFO function is 
not available in Excel Web App." 
(https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/info-function-725f259a-0e4b-49b3-8b52-58815c69acae).

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Wols Lists]

On 13/01/2022 15:57, Kohei Yoshida wrote:

On 13.01.2022 10:38, Chris Sherlock wrote:


That’s my take also. But apparently, it isn’t important on Linux so we
shouldn’t change it. Because no-one uses Excel on Linux, therefore
they would never use this function if they use Linux.


I wasn't there obviously so I don't know the nuance of the discussion. 
But the fact that nobody uses Excel on Linux means we have a bit of 
freedom to decide what to return there since we are not bound by the 
compatibility concerns, rather than just declaring "we shouldn't change 
it".  That'd be my take.


Of course, I don't have a skin in the game, so I'll leave the final 
decision to whoever is more appropriate.


I remember hearing somewhere there is an official port of Excel for 
linux (and I used to run it under Wine), so some people do.


Although whether the "official port" is Office 365 running in the 
browser I don't know. Maybe I should try it, I do have a subscription 
:-( See what it returns.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Kohei Yoshida]

On 13.01.2022 10:38, Chris Sherlock wrote:


That’s my take also. But apparently, it isn’t important on Linux so we
shouldn’t change it. Because no-one uses Excel on Linux, therefore
they would never use this function if they use Linux.


I wasn't there obviously so I don't know the nuance of the discussion. 
But the fact that nobody uses Excel on Linux means we have a bit of 
freedom to decide what to return there since we are not bound by the 
compatibility concerns, rather than just declaring "we shouldn't change 
it".  That'd be my take.


Of course, I don't have a skin in the game, so I'll leave the final 
decision to whoever is more appropriate.


Kohei

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Chris Sherlock]

On 12 Jan 2022, at 2:45 pm, Kohei Yoshida  wrote:
> 
> On 11.01.2022 17:32, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
>> Le 11/01/2022 à 12:16, Chris Sherlock a écrit :
>>> Hi all,
>>> The output of =INFO(“OSVERSION”) currently gives the wrong version for 
>>> MacOS (it says it is Windows).
>> From the help, it is not a bug: =INFO("osversion") aswers always
>> "Windows (32-bit) NT 5.01", for compatibility reasons
>> https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/scalc/01/04060104.html?DbPAR=CALC#bm_id3691824
> 
> According to the inputs from various users on the bug report:
> 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140286
> 
> Excel these days returns correct system information, instead of just always 
> returning "Windows (32-bit) NT 5.01".  It was my understanding that we 
> couldn't change the string because that's what Excel always returned back in 
> the old days.  So I assume that's where the "compatibility reasons" clause 
> comes from.  Maybe Eike can clarify whether I remember this correctly.  I 
> believe I heard that originally from Daniel Rentz who was the expert on all 
> things Excel at the time.
> 
> Since the situation has changed today, I think it's reasonable for Calc to 
> return correct system info as well, and update the help text along with it.
> 
> Kohei

That’s my take also. But apparently, it isn’t important on Linux so we 
shouldn’t change it. Because no-one uses Excel on Linux, therefore they would 
never use this function if they use Linux.

Chris

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Kohei Yoshida]

On 11.01.2022 17:32, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:

Le 11/01/2022 à 12:16, Chris Sherlock a écrit :

Hi all,

The output of =INFO(“OSVERSION”) currently gives the wrong version for 
MacOS (it says it is Windows).


From the help, it is not a bug: =INFO("osversion") aswers always
"Windows (32-bit) NT 5.01", for compatibility reasons

https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/scalc/01/04060104.html?DbPAR=CALC#bm_id3691824


According to the inputs from various users on the bug report:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140286

Excel these days returns correct system information, instead of just 
always returning "Windows (32-bit) NT 5.01".  It was my understanding 
that we couldn't change the string because that's what Excel always 
returned back in the old days.  So I assume that's where the 
"compatibility reasons" clause comes from.  Maybe Eike can clarify 
whether I remember this correctly.  I believe I heard that originally 
from Daniel Rentz who was the expert on all things Excel at the time.


Since the situation has changed today, I think it's reasonable for Calc 
to return correct system info as well, and update the help text along 
with it.


Kohei

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Jean-Baptiste Faure]

Le 11/01/2022 à 12:16, Chris Sherlock a écrit :

Hi all,

The output of =INFO(“OSVERSION”) currently gives the wrong version for MacOS (it says it 
is Windows). 


From the help, it is not a bug: =INFO("osversion") aswers always "Windows (32-bit) NT 
5.01", for compatibility reasons


https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/scalc/01/04060104.html?DbPAR=CALC#bm_id3691824

Best regards.
JBF

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Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Chris Sherlock]

> On 12 Jan 2022, at 1:52 am, Thorsten Behrens  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Chris Sherlock wrote:
>> 1. What should the Linux version of this function provide?
>> 
> My 2 cents - if it ain't broken, don't fix it. People might
> (unreasonably) rely on what's returned there as of today, so why touch
> it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Thorsten

The likelihood of this is very unlikely for the Linux functionality - the patch 
was submitted about two or three days ago.

The MacOS version returns Windows, which is fairly obviously wrong.

It is, in fact, broken. Which is why there is a bug report, with people 
questioning the submitted patch to provide the Linux kernel version. And why I 
submitted a change to try to resolve the MacOS result.

People are relying on the results of an Excel function, and we give a. The 
wrong string (Windows!) and b. Provide a different result than Excel. I’d say 
there are plenty of people relying on the Excel function to return the correct 
value.

Chris

Re: tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Thorsten Behrens]

Hi Chris,

Chris Sherlock wrote:
> 1. What should the Linux version of this function provide?
>
My 2 cents - if it ain't broken, don't fix it. People might
(unreasonably) rely on what's returned there as of today, so why touch
it?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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tdf#140286 - CALC formula =INFO("OSVERSION") gives wrong output

[Chris Sherlock]

Hi all, 

The output of =INFO(“OSVERSION”) currently gives the wrong version for MacOS 
(it says it is Windows). I have a proposed patch for this in 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/127921 


There are two issues:

1. What should the Linux version of this function provide? Given there is no 
Linux version of Excel, we are free to implement whatever we like. However, for 
MacOS Excel currently gives a string in the form "Macintosh (Intel) Version 
11.6.2 (Build 20G314)”, so it seems that we might want to produce the output of 
lsb_release. What should it show? A recent patch returns the kernel version, 
but it seems doubtful that for Excel this is what people expect. 

2. The function AquaSalInstance::getOSVersion() currently gives the MacOS 
release version. This is different from the kernel version on MacOS. Is this 
correct behaviour? My patch changes it to what Excel shows, which seems more 
likely to be what is expected. 

What should be returned here? If it should be the kernel version, then do we 
need to update this? 

If we need to redefine what is shown, do we need to introduce new functions 
into AquaSalInstance to get kernel versions?

Chris