[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Caolán McNamara  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |caol...@redhat.com
   |desktop.org |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |caol...@redhat.com,
   |.freedesktop.org|heiko.tietze@documentfounda
   ||tion.org
   Keywords|needsUXEval |accessibility
   Priority|medium  |high

--- Comment #23 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Thorsten Behrens (allotropia) from comment #14)
> ... a clarified definition of what should be done might be needed

(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #7)
> - ctrl+tab in theses fields leave them, switching between tabs could be done
> with ctrl+tab when the user keyboard focus is on an other item.

(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #16)
> - Let tab behavior as it is 
> - Fix shift tab because shift+tab does the same as tab
> - Control + tab would be used to leave the multi-lines elements

(In reply to Samuel Thibault from comment #21)
> That is actually what gtk3 does too. When the focus is inside a GtkTextView,
> tab inserts a tab, and control-tab switches to the next control. Even if
> control-tab usually switches tabs of the dialog.

So the task is to traverse controls on (shift)+ctrl+tab as happening on other
controls. Simple tab key should still insert a literal tab.

Possible code pointer in comment 11. Caolan, are you bored?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #22 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #16)
> - Let tab behavior as it is 
> - Fix shift tab because shift+tab does the same as tab
> - Control + tab would be used to leave the multi-lines elements
Fine for me.

NB. I notice the TAB behavior is broken in more aspects in version Version:
6.3.0.0.alpha0+
Build ID: 89b1a00e08d8938714dd493fa27f08ba8d9b618d
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 4.15; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3; 
TinderBox: Linux-rpm_deb-x86_64@86-TDF, Branch:master, Time:
2019-04-21_15:52:39
Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL.UTF-8); UI-Language: en-US
Calc: threaded

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #21 from Samuel Thibault  ---
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #16)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #15)
> > (In reply to Thorsten Behrens (CIB) from comment #14)
> > > ...clarified definition of what should be done...
> > 
> > Alex & UX people, please elaborate the planned changes.
> 
> I propose to stay consistent to what Java Swing and Microsoft does, see
> there for the Microsoft way:
> https://docs.microsoft.com/fr-fr/dotnet/api/system.windows.forms.textboxbase.
> acceptstab?view=netframework-4.7.2
> - Let tab behavior as it is 
> - Control + tab would be used to leave the multi-lines elements

That is actually what gtk3 does too. When the focus is inside a GtkTextView,
tab inserts a tab, and control-tab switches to the next control. Even if
control-tab usually switches tabs of the dialog.

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #20)
> Okay, this dialog looks indeed weird. Let's make a proposal for redesign.

Well, a redesign will not change the issue: as long as there are e.g. buttons
after the input control which eats tabs, people who can only use a keyboard can
not escape from it the normal way to reach the buttons, they'd have to
shift-tab to escape backward, and press shift-tab a lot of times only to get
back to the buttons, and possibly pressing one time too much and get stuck
*again* in the input control, and thus have to do shift-tabs again (and
possibly again pressing once too much, etc.). That is really not a usable
behavior, while making an exception for control-tab just here would just work,
and be coherent with other UI toolkits.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|accessibility,  |
   |difficultyBeginner, topicUI |
 CC|tietze.he...@gmail.com  |

--- Comment #20 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Okay, this dialog looks indeed weird. Let's make a proposal for redesign.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #19 from Alex ARNAUD  ---
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #18)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #17)
> > Just for clarification, we talk about File > Wizards > Letter, right?
> 
> No, we're talking about Envelope dialog inside the insert menu. See comment
> #1.

Oops, comment #1 is not the description. See my initial description.

Best regards,
Alex.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #18 from Alex ARNAUD  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #17)
> Just for clarification, we talk about File > Wizards > Letter, right?

No, we're talking about Envelope dialog inside the insert menu. See comment #1.

Best regards,
Alex.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #17 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Just for clarification, we talk about File > Wizards > Letter, right?

The dialog has hotkeys (alt+B/F/P on the first step) and you can tab through
active controls (though feedback of current focus is not correct for me). And
shift-tab traverse the opposite way. What exactly is missing?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #16 from Alex ARNAUD  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #15)
> (In reply to Thorsten Behrens (CIB) from comment #14)
> > ...clarified definition of what should be done...
> 
> Alex & UX people, please elaborate the planned changes.

I propose to stay consistent to what Java Swing and Microsoft does, see there
for the Microsoft way:
https://docs.microsoft.com/fr-fr/dotnet/api/system.windows.forms.textboxbase.acceptstab?view=netframework-4.7.2
- Let tab behavior as it is 
- Fix shift tab because shift+tab does the same as tab
- Control + tab would be used to leave the multi-lines elements

Best regards,
Alex.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|easyHack|needsUXEval
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org

--- Comment #15 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Thorsten Behrens (CIB) from comment #14)
> ...clarified definition of what should be done...

Alex & UX people, please elaborate the planned changes.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

elshreif  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|ahmedtot...@gmail.com   |libreoffice-b...@lists.free
   ||desktop.org

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

elshreif  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |ahmedtot...@gmail.com
   |desktop.org |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||mentoring@documentfoundatio
   ||n.org
   Keywords||difficultyBeginner,
   ||easyHack

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #13 from Patrick ZAJDA  ---
This bug is still present on LibreOffice 6.1.2.1. Tab is not really useful for
these field so looks like a good solution to not allow writting tab in these
fields, in this case we could be able to jump to the next field instead of
reading all the dialog in reverse order using tab key.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #12 from QA Administrators  ---
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding **

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Stéphane Aulery  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||lk...@free.fr
   See Also||http://bugs.debian.org/8758
   ||89

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #11 from Szymon Kłos  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #8)
> 
> > - ctrl+tab in theses fields leave them, switching between tabs could be done
> > with ctrl+tab when the user keyboard focus is on an other item.
> 
> Not sure you can overwrite the default handling of ctrl+tab, but we'd have
> to ask a dev if its possible. @Maxim, @Szymon, @Bubli: Input please.

I think it is possible using IsMod1() to check if ctrl is used and KEY_TAB
code. It could be an easy hack :)

Useful links:
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/include/vcl/keycod.hxx#34
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/offapi/com/sun/star/awt/KeyModifier.idl#37

Example of using key codes:
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/svx/source/tbxctrls/itemwin.cxx#419

Envelope dialog:
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sw/source/ui/envelp/envlop1.cxx#192

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #10 from Alex ARNAUD  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #8)
> (In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #7)
> > > So in other apps, when a user arrives at a multiline textbox that is to
> > > contain tab characters in it, how does navigation work there? I've checked
> > > some apps and some do not permit you to press tab in them (e.g.
> > > thunderbird's new contact dialog's other tab), while others do
> > > (qbittorrent's options dialog's bittorrent tab).
> > 
> > I propose this two behavior : 
> > - Disabling the usage of tab in theses fields
> 
> This would be the safest thing to do as long as the fields dont need the use
> of a tab character in them. @Regina, @Cor, @Heiko: Input please.
> 
> > - ctrl+tab in theses fields leave them, switching between tabs could be done
> > with ctrl+tab when the user keyboard focus is on an other item.
> 
> Not sure you can overwrite the default handling of ctrl+tab, but we'd have
> to ask a dev if its possible. @Maxim, @Szymon, @Bubli: Input please.

Any input ? It's a major issue for keyboard-only users as visual-impaired
people.

Best regards.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #9 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #8)
> (In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #7)
> > I propose this two behavior : 
> > - Disabling the usage of tab in theses fields
> 
> This would be the safest thing to do as long as the fields dont need the use
> of a tab character in them. @Regina, @Cor, @Heiko: Input please.

The labels have accelerators so you get out of this input field with
alt+D/T/F... in case of English. Disabling tabs makes it impossible to simulate
columns, which might be interesting for envelopes. -> WONTFIX

Another observation in this dialog is at the Printer tab where the first
selection with icons is not labeled. It is part of the tab sequence but without
a focus frame so hardly to recognize.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||bu...@bubli.org,
   ||c...@nouenoff.nl,
   ||momonas...@gmail.com,
   ||rb.hensc...@t-online.de,
   ||szymon.k...@collabora.com,
   ||tietze.he...@gmail.com

--- Comment #8 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #7)
> > So in other apps, when a user arrives at a multiline textbox that is to
> > contain tab characters in it, how does navigation work there? I've checked
> > some apps and some do not permit you to press tab in them (e.g.
> > thunderbird's new contact dialog's other tab), while others do
> > (qbittorrent's options dialog's bittorrent tab).
> 
> I propose this two behavior : 
> - Disabling the usage of tab in theses fields

This would be the safest thing to do as long as the fields dont need the use of
a tab character in them. @Regina, @Cor, @Heiko: Input please.

> - ctrl+tab in theses fields leave them, switching between tabs could be done
> with ctrl+tab when the user keyboard focus is on an other item.

Not sure you can overwrite the default handling of ctrl+tab, but we'd have to
ask a dev if its possible. @Maxim, @Szymon, @Bubli: Input please.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

--- Comment #7 from Alex ARNAUD  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #5)
> The bug report was opened about not being able to leave the textbox, which
> was incorrect, which is a different issue of the dialog not being a11y
> friendly. If you'd like to suggests ways to improve the dialog to make it
> easier for a11y users to work in it, i'm always up to hearing them. So let's
> use this bug for that rather than opening up a new one.

You are completely right.

> So in other apps, when a user arrives at a multiline textbox that is to
> contain tab characters in it, how does navigation work there? I've checked
> some apps and some do not permit you to press tab in them (e.g.
> thunderbird's new contact dialog's other tab), while others do
> (qbittorrent's options dialog's bittorrent tab).

I propose this two behavior : 
- Disabling the usage of tab in theses fields
or
- ctrl+tab in theses fields leave them, switching between tabs could be done
with ctrl+tab when the user keyboard focus is on an other item.

Best regards.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Version|unspecified |Inherited From OOo

--- Comment #6 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Can be also reproduced in

LibreOffice 3.3.0 
OOO330m19 (Build:6)
tag libreoffice-3.3.0.4

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107625] Envelope dialog: Make dialog more a11y friendly

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107625

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|NEW
 Resolution|FIXED   |---
Summary|Envelope dialog : unable to |Envelope dialog: Make
   |leave text box with |dialog more a11y friendly
   |keyboard|
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #5 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #3)
> Do you really think that a blind person should read the content of the
> dialog in reverse order ? It's already quite complicated to understand the
> screen for the blinds persons so IMO it isn't user-friendly.

The bug report was opened about not being able to leave the textbox, which was
incorrect, which is a different issue of the dialog not being a11y friendly. If
you'd like to suggests ways to improve the dialog to make it easier for a11y
users to work in it, i'm always up to hearing them. So let's use this bug for
that rather than opening up a new one.

So in other apps, when a user arrives at a multiline textbox that is to contain
tab characters in it, how does navigation work there? I've checked some apps
and some do not permit you to press tab in them (e.g. thunderbird's new contact
dialog's other tab), while others do (qbittorrent's options dialog's bittorrent
tab).

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