[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-04-25 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #44 from Khaled Hosny (inactive)  ---
(In reply to Frank Zimmerman from comment #41)
> During the testing procedure, I realized that using Linux Libertine G in
> Microsoft Word (2016) with Ligatures turned on, I could export to PDF (using
> the MS Word Export function), and the resulting PDF worked fine for copying
> out text, with all PDF readers (Foxit, Acrobat, Chrome, Edge).
> 
> So, how is it that the Word PDF export can bypass the /ActualText tagging
> problem? Does it have some internal way of preparing the PDF that avoids
> this or substitutes a more compatible method?

Word (like most applications) does not support Graphite fonts, so it is using
the OpenType layout tables in the font (which is basically like using Linux
Libertine O) and these don’t have the same problem. The problem is specifically
in the Graphite part of the font which seems to be misbehaving.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-04-24 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #43 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
Created attachment 150988
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=150988=edit
Word Doc with Ligatures used to create PDF

Here is the Word doc used to create the PDF referred in the comments.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-04-24 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #42 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
Created attachment 150987
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=150987=edit
Word Doc with Ligatures exported to PDF

Here is a PDF created from a simple Word doc (with Ligatures turned on, and
using Linux Libertine G). This was created using the Word export function.

This PDF can be loaded into any PDF reader, and the text copies out correctly.

A similar LibreOffice doc exported to PDF only works with PDF readers that
support /ActualText tagging (Acrobat, Chrome) and not with others (Foxit,
Edge).

What is Word doing differently?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-04-24 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #41 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
Fellows,

I wanted to revisit this issue and add one more interesting detail.

I recently did a bug report for Foxit Phantom, so they could hopefully modify
their code to include support for the /ActualText tags mentioned above.

During the testing procedure, I realized that using Linux Libertine G in
Microsoft Word (2016) with Ligatures turned on, I could export to PDF (using
the MS Word Export function), and the resulting PDF worked fine for copying out
text, with all PDF readers (Foxit, Acrobat, Chrome, Edge).

So, how is it that the Word PDF export can bypass the /ActualText tagging
problem? Does it have some internal way of preparing the PDF that avoids this
or substitutes a more compatible method?

I also realized that the resulting PDF is about 10 times larger (in file size)
than a PDF printed using a PDF printer driver.

I'm going to attach the Word Doc and Exported PDF. Maybe someone can examine
the PDF and see what is going on here?

If they (MS Word) can do it, why can't we?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #40 from Khaled Hosny (inactive)  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #38)
> (In reply to Khaled Hosny (inactive) from comment #37)
> 
> > So basically it is a faulty font, that  should have gotten index 2 not 0,
> > and us are doing our best to accommodate limitations of PDF format and PDF
> > readers.
> 
> Thanks, and that makes perfect sense now. So is there a chance the hb
> graphite2 shaper will be tweaked--or would László (or another Graphite
> expert) have to build the Liberation fonts over again and tweak the Graphite
> support?

I’m pretty sure this is a bug in the font, I can’t reproduce this behavior with
other graphite fonts.

$ hb-shape /usr/share/fonts/TTF/CharisSIL-R.ttf "file flow suffice"
--no-positions --shaper=graphite2
[f_i=0|l=2|e=3|space=4|f_l=5|o=7|w=8|space=9|s=10|u=11|f_f_i=12|c=15|e=16]

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #39 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #38)
s/Liberation/Libertine

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||martin_hos...@sil.org

--- Comment #38 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny (inactive) from comment #37)

> So basically it is a faulty font, that  should have gotten index 2 not 0,
> and us are doing our best to accommodate limitations of PDF format and PDF
> readers.

Thanks, and that makes perfect sense now. So is there a chance the hb graphite2
shaper will be tweaked--or would László (or another Graphite expert) have to
build the Liberation fonts over again and tweak the Graphite support?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #37 from Khaled Hosny (inactive)  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #31)
> (In reply to Khaled Hosny (inactive) from comment #21)
> > > Here is result from a 6.2.1 build--note addition of the /ActualText
> > > structure, which helps with fidelity of pasted text. But that the
> > > LibreOffice generated /ToUnicode does look to have problems.
> 
> > That is fine, it means there is no unique one to one, or one to many mapping
> > between these glyphs (not characters) and the input text, so no /ToUnicode
> > and /ActualText tagging is used for them.
> 
> While things are much improved with HarfBuzz and moving the font handling
> into CommonSalLayout. But I'm still not sure this is correct, at least not
> in handling digraphs for the Graphite fonts. 
> 
> When LO exports to PDF the mapping of "The fire flying coffee left
> Quickly.", with Graphite font(s), the /ToUnicode stuct is getting an
> additional glyph added to the digraphs (both PUA and , and then is not
> mapping that glyph when it probably should.
> 
> Use the below /ToUnicode chart with annotations, and read out the Tf[.*]TJ
> text runs (from LO 6.2.1) in comment 16
> 
> <01> <005400680065>  --> "The", but maybe should be just "Th"?
> x <02> -- "e" not mapped

That is how the fonts are built:
$ hb-shape /usr/share/fonts/TTF/LinLibertine_R_G.ttf "The fire" --no-positions
[T_h=0|e=0|space=3|f_i=4|r=4|e=7]

The numbers after each glyph is the index of the character in belongs to in the
input string. Here both  and  glyphs get index 0 and the next glyph,
, gets index 3. So for us this means that, the first three characters,
“the”, make a two glyph cluster, , and we can’t tell which of the three
characters belongs to which glyph and thus bundle them as a single unit.

Now, /ToUnicode allows only one to one and one to many mappings, but not many
to many that we need here, so we use an /ActualText tag.

For maximum compatibility with PDF readers not supporting /ActualText we also
add, as a last resort, a /ToUnicode entry for the first glyph, , mapping
it to the three characters and skip the second glyph . This is not ideal,
but at least one gets some text (and spurious chars for the unmapped glyphs) on
such readers.

So basically it is a faulty font, that  should have gotten index 2 not 0,
and us are doing our best to accommodate limitations of PDF format and PDF
readers.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #36 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
OK, thanks! I didn't even notice that "Features" button before. I'll have to
spend some time assessing if I need all those extra features.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #150202|Font features Linux |Graphite Font features
description|Biolinum G (v1.1.0) |Linux Biolinum G (v1.1.0)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #150200|Font features Linux |Graphite Font features
description|Libertine G (V5.1.3)|Linux Libertine G (V5.1.3)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #35 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Created attachment 150202
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=150202=edit
Font features Linux Biolinum G (v1.1.0)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #34 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Created attachment 150201
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=150201=edit
Font features Linux Biolinum (v1.1.8)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #33 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Created attachment 150200
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=150200=edit
Font features Linux Libertine G (V5.1.3)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #32 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Created attachment 150199
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=150199=edit
Font features Linux Libertine (v5.3.0)

(In reply to Frank Zimmerman from comment #30)
> I'm interested to know what the Graphite fonts offer that the non-graphite
> ones don't? In other words, what do I stand to lose by switching to
> non-graphite (other than convenience)?

considerable support for typography.

Use a 6.1 or 6.2 build of LibreOffice. Create a new paragraph with both the
Graphite 5.1.3 and the last unmodified 5.3.0 build of Libertine fonts.

Open the Format -> Character dialog and select the Features button.

Clips attached.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #31 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny (inactive) from comment #21)
> > Here is result from a 6.2.1 build--note addition of the /ActualText
> > structure, which helps with fidelity of pasted text. But that the
> > LibreOffice generated /ToUnicode does look to have problems.

> That is fine, it means there is no unique one to one, or one to many mapping
> between these glyphs (not characters) and the input text, so no /ToUnicode
> and /ActualText tagging is used for them.

While things are much improved with HarfBuzz and moving the font handling into
CommonSalLayout. But I'm still not sure this is correct, at least not in
handling digraphs for the Graphite fonts. 

When LO exports to PDF the mapping of "The fire flying coffee left Quickly.",
with Graphite font(s), the /ToUnicode stuct is getting an additional glyph
added to the digraphs (both PUA and , and then is not mapping that glyph when
it probably should.

Use the below /ToUnicode chart with annotations, and read out the Tf[.*]TJ text
runs (from LO 6.2.1) in comment 16

<01> <005400680065>  --> "The", but maybe should be just "Th"?
x <02> -- "e" not mapped
<03> <0020> -- 
<04> <006600690072>  -- "fir", but maybe should be just "fi"?
x <05> -- "r" not mapped
<06> <0066006C0079> -- "fly", but maybe should be just "fl"?
x <07> -- "y" not mapped
<08> <0069> -- i
<09> <006E> -- n
<0A> <0067> -- g
<0B> <0063> -- c
<0C> <006F> -- o
<0D> <006600660065> -- "ffe", but maybe should be just "ff"?
<0E> <006C> -- l
<0F> <006600740020> -- "ft", but maybe should be just "ft"?
<10> <005100750069> -- "Qui", but maybe should be just "Qu"?
<11> <006B> -- k

Seems consistently incorrect. A logic flaw in building the map(s)? Would that
be our pdfwriter_impl, or now the grapite2 hb shaper?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #30 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
I'm interested to know what the Graphite fonts offer that the non-graphite ones
don't? In other words, what do I stand to lose by switching to non-graphite
(other than convenience)?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||nem...@numbertext.org

--- Comment #29 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Khaled, László

Can the Grraphite built fonts be salvaged?

With changes to font handling, and dropping Uniscribe on Windows, maybe worth
revisiting Jonathan & László's correction to building the Unicode mapping for
Graphite fonts? Tor had to back it out 

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=0b70e4ea4fcf0adccdfdf4886e5cc45d46479692
 

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d664f279602ae6ea9275b222f3f33634aeec97b3

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters. (comment 24)

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Text copied from a PDF  |Text copied from a PDF
   |exported using Linux|exported using Linux
   |Libertine G Graphite font   |Libertine G Graphite font
   |is missing characters.  |is missing characters.
   ||(comment 24)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters.

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #28 from Khaled Hosny (inactive)  ---
(In reply to Frank Zimmerman from comment #27) 
> It would be nice if we could have the same comprehensive support in the
> graphite fonts that the non-graphite ones seem to have.

That is not something we can fix, unfortunately. The way Graphite works and the
way these fonts are built requires using /ActualText tags for some glyphs, and
the faulty applications most likely don’t support /ActualText tagging. So you
either change the fonts or the faulty applications (or report to the faulty
applications and hope they get fixed), there is no other option AFAIK.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters.

2019-03-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #27 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
Here are the results of the tests you requested.

I think it was LO 6.0.7.3 that exported the PDF for the Last-Day-Events book.
At least I found that listed in the meta.xml.

1. I removed LO 6.2 and all the fonts related.
2. I installed LO 6.0.7.3. I verified that the graphite fonts were installed.
3. I loaded the ODT, and exported the PDF.
4. I copied out the first paragraph of p. 10 into a text editor. Here is the
result:

The covr pictur was takn in north-wstrn Portugal in th summr of 1990 whn a
trribl drought had th land in its dadly grip.
The grass was tindr dry, th strams had drid up, grass and forst
firrs wr blazing out of control, and th sun unmaskd by clouds,
burnd with dstructiv powr. Fortunatly rlif firnally cam
whn rain vntually arrivd.

Definitely all the "e" characters are missing. There is an extra "r" in the
word "fires" and the word "finally". I tested with Foxit Phantom, Adobe Reader
DC, Chrome, Edge. All yielded pretty much the same result as above.

1. I removed LO 6.0.7.3 and all the fonts related.
2. I installed LO 6.1.5. I verified that the graphite fonts were installed.
3. I loaded the ODT, and exported the PDF.
4. I copied out the first paragraph of p. 10 into a text editor. Here is the
result:

Acrobat: text copies fine
Foxit Phantom: text is missing characters
Chrome: text copies fine
Edge: text is missing characters

I repeated the same test with LO 6.2.2 and saw the same results as 6.1.5.

This explains the anomaly of the one office computer that worked...I obviously
was only testing the copy/paste with Acrobat Reader, whereas on my own laptop,
I was testing with Foxit Phantom. Likewise when I did test with Acrobat, it was
only with the older PDF's made with LO 6.0.7 (which failed, of course).

Next I removed the graphite fonts and installed the latest non-graphite
Libertine fonts. I exported the PDF. Here is the result:

Acrobat: text copies fine
Foxit Phantom: text copies fine
Chrome: text copies fine
Edge: text copies fine

So the PDF's with non-graphite fonts work with all PDF readers, whereas the
PDF's with graphite fonts only work with some PDF readers.

I did one more test. I loaded page 10 of the four PDF's into Inkscape. Here are
the results:

1. In the PDF's made with graphite fonts, all the "e" characters were missing,
and the second letter of each ligature-set. In the non-graphite PDF, only the
second letter of each ligature-set was missing.

2. All the PDF's using graphite fonts came into Inkscape as small sections of
text (a few words in an object), whereas the non-graphite version came in as
whole lines of text (much easier to edit).

3. The non-graphite PDF had the font name changed to "LinLibertine", which
required a search/replace to set back to "Linux Libertine" so the font could
display properly. The graphite PDF's imported with the correct fontname.

So other than the fontname issue, the non-graphite PDF imported into Inkscape
in a much nicer way.

This puts me in a bit of a dilemma. Do I continue with the graphite fonts,
knowing that there will be issues with some PDF readers, and that import into
other programs (like Inkscape) could be problematic? Or do I switch to the
non-graphite fonts, which could be confusing to others who download my ODT
files but  only have the graphite fonts that LO installed?

It would be nice if we could have the same comprehensive support in the
graphite fonts that the non-graphite ones seem to have.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters.

2019-03-21 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

--- Comment #26 from Frank Zimmerman  ---
Thanks, I will try that.

I realized after my last post that there is still one contradiction. I have
three laptops in testing here: my office laptop, my home laptop, and a
coworker's office laptop. They are all Dell Precision (M4800 and M6800), so not
much difference in hardware; all running W10 64 latest release.

On the coworker's laptop, where I did a first-time install of LibreOffice 6.2,
the graphite fonts were present, yet the export was fine.

On my home laptop, the graphite fonts were present, yet the export was not
good. Changing to the 5.3 Libertine fonts fixed it, at least for now.

On my office laptop, the graphite fonts were present, along with three older
fonts (4.x releases of Libertine, I can't remember if they were graphite or
not, but most likely they were, as I did not see duplicate fonts in LO). The
export problem was also present there. I also changed to the latest 5.3
Libertine fonts and it seemed to fix the problem.

So I still have one laptop in the equation which has the graphite fonts, and
yet the export works.

Could there be something else going on here, like a font-cache issue?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters.

2019-03-21 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Version|6.2.0.3 release |6.0.0.3 release

--- Comment #25 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Frank, could you dig out the build of 6.0 you used to export the
"Last-Day-Events.pdf" with. And, please verify that if you open the ODF
document with a 6.1 build, or a 6.2 build  and export to PDF that, with the
Graphite Linux Libertine G font build 5.1.3 present, the copy & paste of page
10 is clean.

Also, as Khaled was indicating--there is a difference in font features between
the Graphite modified Libertine G (5.1.3) and Biolinum G (1.1.0) fonts provided
to LibreOffice by László Németh (http://numbertext.org/linux/), and the last
Libertine font project 5.3 build.

So installing the 5.3.0/1.1.8 builds is fine, but only if you do not need the
SIL Graphite font features. Improvements to font feature handling at the LO 6.2
release improve OTF/TTF so the Graphite fonts are not as necessary.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 124191] Text copied from a PDF exported using Linux Libertine G Graphite font is missing characters.

2019-03-21 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124191

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62
   ||846
 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
Summary|Text copied from a PDF  |Text copied from a PDF
   |exported using Linux|exported using Linux
   |Libertine G is missing  |Libertine G Graphite font
   |characters. |is missing characters.
 Resolution|--- |DUPLICATE

--- Comment #24 from V Stuart Foote  ---
The see also bug 62846 relates to specific issue here of handling Graphite
fonts, which did seem to have issues with the /ToUnicode mapping--but it was
merged with bug 66597 for work implementing an /ActualText tagging that came in
for 6.1 release removing dependence on the /ToUnicode tables where the Graphite
mappings are still wrong. So, this is actually fixed for 6.1.

Additional work of bug 117428 to make the /ActualText word boundary aware will
further improve fidelity of copy/paste for all LO content export to PDF.  And
should move us closer to supporting tagged PDF/UA (bug 45636) output.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 66597 ***

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