[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |heiko.tietze@documentfounda |desktop.org |tion.org Status|NEW |ASSIGNED -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #29 from Shinji Enoki --- Thank you for discussion and efforts so far. Sorry for the late comment. https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928#c23 If my understanding is correct, Western is always visible, Asia and Complex can be switched on tabs. This Heiko's idea is much better than the current development version because it can set Western and Asian languages without switching tabs. I was a little wondering why only Western is always displayed, but it is easy to use for Japanese users. Another way, if JO3EMC’s idea solves the problem of the vertical length of the dialog, that is a good approach. The previous layout is not the best, but the risk of UX changes is minimal. However I don't know if that is technically possible. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #28 from JO3EMC --- Maybe the problem is that the "Features..." button gets too big depending on the UI language? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #27 from JO3EMC --- Traditional styles like Attachment 180443 will not require the implementation of features you suggested in Comment 3 as before, but Attachment 180245 styles do. Do we have to take the risk of implementing a feature that we don't know if it will work for everyone? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #26 from JO3EMC --- I also don't understand. No one needs extra switching operations in a layout based on traditional styles. No one. I don't understand why you want to increase the step of operation so much. However, as mentioned above, the Comment 23 proposal seems relatively better than the one implemented in 7.4 currently and may help many users, in my opinion. It doesn't seem perfect to me at all, but it might be better to adopt it than to keep implementing the current one. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #25 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to JO3EMC from comment #24) > What on earth are you aiming for and calling for opinions? I don't understand your reply. I am working on alternatives to the tabbed UI and two columns with Western next to CTL or CJK sounds perfectly fine to me since you probably never switch between the two. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #24 from JO3EMC --- Created attachment 180443 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=180443=edit Test Layout [Paragraph Style]-[Font] JO3EMC 20220528 This is just my personal opinion, but... Even if you are asked "What do you think?" ... I can only answer "not good". The reason has been mentioned so far. As mentioned in Comment 19, if we can unify the messages, it seems possible to achieve the required dialog size with a layout that is close to traditional one, like attachment file. We don't need the Notebook Widget at all from the beginning. We should have been able to continue to use the familiar and easy-to-read layout. "Western" only users also should have enjoyed the same layout benefits as before. The example layout given in Comment 23 may be better than the one currently implemented in 7.4, but it's worse than the traditional layout. To get the time to do such discussions, I repeatedly and strongly asked for a revert to the traditional layout. But the request was rejected by the forced adoption of the Notebook layout. Unfortunately, it has already been decided that the layout that has been adopted for many years will be replaced with the Notebook layout. It was a decision that did not take into account the opinions of CJK/CTL users. However, it is irresponsible to change the frequently used interface layout easily and frequently. Without looking at the evaluation of the released Notebook layout, I don't feel the need to discuss the basic structure of the layout anymore. At present, what we can only do is evaluate the usability of the notebook layout that has been adopted unfortunately and make the improvements like suggested in this issue. If we continue the discuss about the basic structure of the layout, I think we need to be able to continue using the traditional layout for the time being, not to cause confusion. What on earth are you aiming for and calling for opinions? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #23 from Heiko Tietze --- Created attachment 180245 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=180245=edit CTL/CJK in tabs Played around with a GtkGrid where three columns hold the languages next to each other. Blocker here is that comboboxes take the width of the largest entry, which is in particular relevant for the read-only comboboxes. In the consequence I get a dialog with ~1000px width. We could place CJK and CTL into tabs so only two columns are visible at once. Family should become a list, Style and Size next to each other, the NB border removed - and to align controls of western with ctl/cjk I'd have to use a GtkNotebook there too. What do you think? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #22 from JO3EMC --- The row headings (field label) may have to be a little wider. Depending on the UI language. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #21 from JO3EMC --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16) > A completely different solution is to have three columns, actually a table. > Maybe worth to try. Do you think of "three columns" as something like page 10 of attachment 179899? Indeed, it may be possible to layout. If this kind of thing could be done technically. The contents of the Font field are hard to identify, but it doesn't seem to be a problem if we only use up to two language groups. If the extra space required by HIG, such as 24px between frames, can be adjusted, it may be a little better. I'm a little worried about how the accelerator key behaves. When CJK/CTL Off, the "Western" fields will be stretched horizontally, but I'm not sure if that's okay. >From the perspective of inheritance, I think that the conventional layout base is preferable, but it may have been one option. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #20 from JO3EMC --- Created attachment 179899 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=179899=edit Test Layout [Paragraph Style]-[Font] JO3EMC 20220503 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #19 from JO3EMC --- Created attachment 179898 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=179898=edit 254dpi ScreenShot [Paragraph Style]-[Font] CJK/CTL Off in 7.3.2.2 I made a mistake in the term in the previous post. "the three-row arrangement" should have been called "the three-column arrangement". Excuse me. > The western section was the only one shown in a large dialog tab before the > patch with a lot of white space. I have attached a screenshot of CJK/CTL Off in 7.3.2.2. The same is true for earlier versions, and almost 7.4.0.0.a0 too. As you know, list boxes those don't exist with CJK/CTL On are placed. It doesn't look like "with a lot of white space". The placement of the "Language" field is also different from when CJK/CTL On. It's true that the technical structure is 3 frames, but with such differences, it's already an original design. I don't think that it's good, but also I don't think it has to be changed with losing usability of CJK/CTL users. The mental health problem of "with a lot of white space" does not specifically impair usability compared to CJK/CTL users. What's more, the traditional design doesn't really make such a situation. Rather, it may have provided better visibility only to Western users. On the other hand, a separated pane design really violates the usability of CJK/CTL users. I was saying that. The only problem that exists is to the size which requested by HIG. > Can't we use one option for all languages here? Do you mean to display messages for three language groups together? I can't tell if that's possible. Isn't this message the result of some judgment? Or is it a literal rather than a placeholder? If it's a placeholder, it seems too big a problem to deal with here. Because this issue is just discussing the layout. I think it is necessary to discuss the functionality. I don't know how to put together messages for three different fonts. I also don't know if other types of messages will be displayed. If it is literal, it may be okay to put it together. If so, a layout like pages 6 and 7 of attachment 178567 will solve the problem. There is no need to make major changes to the traditional layout. It may be possible to make it even more compact by combining it with the ideas on pages 8 and 9. In any case, I don't think we have time left for such a discussion. Once the notebook layout is released, it will be difficult to re-change to a design close to revert for a while. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #18 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to JO3EMC from comment #17) > I don't know what "the integrated icon-only buttons" means ... When the button has no label but only an icon. > The arrangement and parts are completely different. The western section was the only one shown in a large dialog tab before the patch with a lot of white space. Technically we had three frames and hid some depending on the options. Now the tabs are shown or hidden making it a bit more balanced. > long messages like "The same font will be used on both your printer... Can't we use one option for all languages here? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #17 from JO3EMC --- I don't know what "the integrated icon-only buttons" means ...but, the current implementation seems to have a completely different design layout when CJK / CTL is disabled. The arrangement and parts are completely different. Therefore, it seems nonsense to take that into consideration when considering the layout here. Isn't it better to design independently? I also dreamed of the three-row arrangement. However, given the frame splits that "Western" users seem to want and the long messages like "The same font will be used on both your printer and your screen.", that idea seemed difficult and I stopped considering it. I think it seems quite difficult to fit in the 800px width dialog that HIG requires. I can't imagine a concrete layout image, including the requirements required in the horizontal direction. The traditional layout seemed better. In any case, it seems that such a study will take a considerable amount of time to discuss, I think. I don't think it will be in time for 7.4 at all. It was said that reverting would be difficult without the requests of many users, so I understand that we cannot secure time for that consideration. Around me, there are opinions that it is better to actually release the current implementation of tab notebook and leave it to the market evaluation. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #16 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to JO3EMC from comment #9) > Created attachment 178567 [details] I like most the integrated icon-only buttons. But consider also how the dialog looks when CJK/CTL are disabled, somewhat naked I'm afraid. A completely different solution is to have three columns, actually a table. Maybe worth to try. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #15 from JO3EMC --- Oh ... I was careless about using the terms. My intention was not the Tabbed UI of LibreOffice, but the notebook component (= GtkNotebook) in the font settings dialog. Sorry for the misleading expression. > Eyal and Heiko are both personal names, not family names. Thank you very much. I will remember. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #14 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to JO3EMC from comment #13) > I don't have a clear idea of how the Tab Notebook UI behaves. To be clear - my comments did not regard the "Tab Notebook UI" (which I dislike and don't use). > And I'm afraid but also I can't figure out the family name for > Eyal and Heiko... Eyal and Heiko are both personal names, not family names. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #13 from JO3EMC --- My own first choice is revert, but I've withdrawn that claim because I haven't received the support of the community so far. In that case, I don't have a clear idea of how the Tab Notebook UI behaves. On the other hand, the suggestions of Nishibori, Heiko and Eyal seem to be consistent. It may be the opinion of this place. (In this case, Nishibori is a family name. However, in Japan, there is a movement to reorder the names in English recently. It may be confusing in the future. And I'm afraid but also I can't figure out the family name for Eyal and Heiko...) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks||43808 Referenced Bugs: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43808 [Bug 43808] [META] Right-To-Left and Complex Text Layout language issues (RTL/CTL) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks|43808 |129661 Referenced Bugs: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43808 [Bug 43808] [META] Right-To-Left and Complex Text Layout language issues (RTL/CTL) https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129661 [Bug 129661] [META] Right-To-Left (RTL) user interface issues -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #12 from Eyal Rozenberg --- > That makes Asian and CTL users confused before clicking 'Asian' or 'Complex' > tab because a user will usually believe what dialog shows first reflects > present state. As far as I can speak for RTL language users (which is to be debated...) I semi-disagree. The tab heading clearly states "Western". And - RTL language users are used to there being "two fonts" - the English/LTR/European languages font and the RTL languages font. (You could argue that "Western" is a questionable choice of name, but that's a different story.) I agree that in its previous state, the dialog was kind of repetitive; and that readability is somewhat improved now. What I suggest as an alternative solution is that, when the Character properties dialog is opened, the focused tab will be the one corresponding to the language group in whose context the dialog was opened. That seems like Heiko's second suggested option; and it should suffice to avoid the element of surprise described by Kiyotaka-san (Or is it Nishibori-san? Sorry, I couldn't figure out which one is the family name). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added CC||eyalr...@gmx.com, ||heiko.tietze@documentfounda ||tion.org, ||mikekagan...@hotmail.com Keywords|needsUXEval | --- Comment #11 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to JO3EMC from comment #10) > Is it difficult to support with 7.4.0? What exactly do you want to support? Revert the patch (the 600px is not carved in stone but a good rule of thumb) or open the corresponding tab depending of the language at the cursor (might be difficult)? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 JO3EMC changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||needsUXEval -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 --- Comment #10 from JO3EMC --- Heiko: Is it difficult to support with 7.4.0? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14 ||8257 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 146928] Open the corresponding text font tab for Asian/CTL fonts
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146928 JO3EMC changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|UI improvement request -|Open the corresponding text |CJK/CTL font setting in |font tab for Asian/CTL |dialog |fonts -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
