https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148479
--- Comment #8 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #7)
> (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #6)
> > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #5)
> > Oh, you show a logical fallacy: you substitute my "this is a data, so should
> > not be treated as metadata" with your "you can do that in a different way"
> > ;)
>
> I argue that list indicator in unordered and in numbered lists also carry
> data. Typically, they carry less data - since people don't restart their
> lists very often - but they do carry it.
Please let's be strict with definitions.
We are not talking about the reader. We are talking about creator here. The
reader might get the data printed, and have no clue which document markup was
used for the printout, so the reader's perspective here is unimportant (and if
you include those who parse documents to extract data into "reader" category,
my following argumentation applies to them, too).
1. Restarting a list is not adding information. It is actually starting a new
list, which happens to have the same formatting. Restarting is an artifact of
an implementation, and brings no information itself. So no, this mention
doesn't prove anything.
2. Later, you discuss unnumbered items. This example also is incorrect.
Unfortunately, *in the UI* this is called as "unnumbered item", creating a
false impression that this is *a list item* with some special properties. But
this naming is completely misguiding. I advice you to create such a list (very
simple, have a couple of "numbered" paragraphs, and one "unnumbered"), save to
FODT, and inspect the XML. You will see, that there are only "numbered"
(=normal) items in the list; but each *item* can contain *arbitrary number* of
paragraphs. So basically, on UI level, it could be *more correct* (but unwanted
by vast majority of users) to add selections of paragraphs as list items, so
that users would understand the difference between paragraphs and list items.
In a way, list item is like table cell: it can hold more that just a single
paragraph. So - again, the argument is incorrect, since *every* list item is
handles absolutely identically, which is "number its first line, and format the
rest according to the formatting rules".
3. So the numbers/bullets get generated based on the fact that the *list* is
rendered. Other than defining the list and its content, the user does not need
to do anything to define the decorations.
And levels are also part of this picture, with sub-items being *part* of
higher-level items. Again, use FODT to inspect what ODF thinks about the
respective document structure (and what I think about the mental model that
should be used for this, incidentally). One defines a list item *content*, and
then all decorations are applied automatically, uniformly.
Now look at "Done" mark. To make this mark, you can't rely on the *list*
properties. You only can define a specific item properties, which is the very
difference between the "data" the you (as the writer) define for the specific
element, vs. the formatting applied to a list structure. This has no place in
the list ideology. It could be possibly implemented as a paragraph style, if
one is allergic to tables (many people are, because they were taught that using
tables for formatting is EVIL).
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