[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14 |
   |4946|

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

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 CC||eaglevi...@protonmail.com

--- Comment #56 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 144946 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

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   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
   ||4946

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

URL|https://openapkfile.co/ |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

himan khare  changed:

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URL||https://openapkfile.co/

--- Comment #55 from himan khare  ---
Great efforts to collect the info, thanks for share. https://openapkfile.co/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #54 from Todd  ---
I use the Windows version with Wine on Fedora 33.  It has a few quirks, but it
is still far more usable than Libre Office.   Fixing this bug would go a long
way to getting Libre Office to catch up to Word Pro

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #53 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
I haven't looked to see if LO has been updated/reported to it yet or not. Just
adding this info here because it was news to me.

OS/2 is back from the grave.

https://www.theregister.com/2017/05/19/new_version_of_os_2_arca_os_5/

https://www.arcanoae.com/wp-content/uploads/wiki/ArcaOS50_InstallationGuide.pdf

https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/arcaos-5-personal-edition/

It is an option for your Lotus WordPro.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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--- Comment #52 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Todd from comment #51)
> (In reply to luciano_f from comment #50)
> > ...
> > https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dRhyfe1x7fM/WOIXKpGfBDI/JiI/
> > Ae0hxxJx3DsWUWgKVT_88nH-dqdKxiszwCLcB/s1600/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2017-04-
> > 02%2B21-35-31.png
> > 
> 
> I am not seeing division tabs in your screen shot.
> 
> The Firefox style tabs at the top are sweet and I'd like to see them in LO,
> but they are not division tabs.  Division tabs on in the document

Right, that is the Tabbed UI -- MDI of see also bug 37134, not tabbed document
sections as here.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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--- Comment #51 from Todd  ---
(In reply to luciano_f from comment #50)
> I am also very interested in this Guides feature that would make LibreOffice
> very powerful and I don’t see it as something so complex to develop because
> it’s just Layout.
> 
> Even OnyOffice already has this functionality.
> 
> https://www.onlyoffice.com/en/
> 
> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dRhyfe1x7fM/WOIXKpGfBDI/JiI/
> Ae0hxxJx3DsWUWgKVT_88nH-dqdKxiszwCLcB/s1600/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2017-04-
> 02%2B21-35-31.png
> 
> Thankful.

I am not seeing division tabs in your screen shot.

The Firefox style tabs at the top are sweet and I'd like to see them in LO, but
they are not division tabs.  Division tabs on in the document

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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--- Comment #50 from luciano_f  ---
I am also very interested in this Guides feature that would make LibreOffice
very powerful and I don’t see it as something so complex to develop because
it’s just Layout.

Even OnyOffice already has this functionality.

https://www.onlyoffice.com/en/

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dRhyfe1x7fM/WOIXKpGfBDI/JiI/Ae0hxxJx3DsWUWgKVT_88nH-dqdKxiszwCLcB/s1600/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2017-04-02%2B21-35-31.png

Thankful.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #49 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
For a more in-depth explanation of Division and Sections you can visit a blog I
wrote this weekend actually using WordPro on Windows 10 in a VM.

http://www.logikalsolutions.com/wordpress/information-technology/thank-you-for-your-future-abandonware/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #48 from Todd  ---
Hi All,

John Brassington (jo...@email2.me) ask me if I would add this to the
conversation as he gets echoes from this bug report but can not post to it for
some weird system reason.

  "We still cannot move off of Lotus Wordpro, because so much of our work
relies on the 
  internal brilliant filing system of Tabs.

  A single document can span some 20 years, with Group tabs (labelled say
2019, 2018 etc)
  holding individual tabs (documents - tabs within tabs).

  Fortunately, all of Lotus Smartsuit (Wordpro, 123 etc) works on Windows
10 Pro (32 & 64).

  If Lotus could do it 15 years ago - what would be so difficult now?

  John"

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #47 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
This needs to return to high priority.

It cannot be done in an AGILE hacking on the fly manner. It has to be
architected.

What also __really__ needs to happen is ensure LO has __all__ of the lwp file
support from Lotus Symphony. I remember Symphony handling lwp wy better
than LO currently does.

U Could the person who uses LWP most days find a nice complex and large lwp
document which could be released publicly? Something with numerous tabbed
divisions, some hidden, some not. Images. Running page headers and footers.
etc.

In short, do you have a book you never finished/published that you don't mind
tossing up here where it will eventually be found by someone who will put it on
Lulu.com for sale without giving you a dime? I go through that with this Java
book.

https://theminimumyouneedtoknow.com/xbase_book.html

I wrote and donated the book to the xBaseJ project. It's included in their
download and available as a free PDF elsewhere, yet I continually have to scan
Lulu.com and other "upload and go" book sites that check absolutely nothing
because people keep trying to sell a POD printed version for $35.

I checked my remaining lwp files the other day. The only files I still have
left is documentation I did for Navistar. The systems are still in use and the
company is still in business, so those can't be placed in the wild. They also
weren't complex enough.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #46 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
(In reply to Todd from comment #44)
> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #43)
> > No question that we have to improve the Navigator, a proposal is here [1].
> > But despite all the shortcommings the basic way of dealing with content is
> > working well. From the WYSIWYG point of view I doubt that putting content in
> > tabbed sections is working well for the majority of users. And there are
> > also many requests to have tabs for multiple documents in one app that would
> > clash with your proposal.
> > 
> 
> Hi Heiko,
> 
> I use both.  There is no comparison between the annoyance of the Navigator
> and effectiveness division tabs.  This is why you now have an army of folks
> requestion them.  I am not suggesting that you drop the navigator, but add
> the extra usability feature of Division Tabs.  And of course, add the tabs
> into the Navigator as well.
> 
> I am a consultant to small business.  I have installed installed LibreOffice
> on probably a hundred client's computers.  I only have one company that uses
> LibreOffice and another that half uses it.  Everyone else has removed it in
> favour of you-know-who, which I also sell.  Part of the reason is that they
> don't want to learn anything new, which you can do nothing about.  The other
> part is of the reason is that so many of the features are difficult and
> obscure to use.  Please take your users input and try to make LibreOffice
> better.
> 
> If you keep digging your feet in, your will continue to loose users.  I
> don't loose them, I just sell the you-know-who from the evil empire.
> 

I would like to point out that Lotus SmartSuite didn't fail in the marketplace.
IBM and Microsoft were having a tiff over the Windows code in OS/2. Microsoft
pulled all of their developers from the IBM location (somewhere down near
Florida if I remember correctly) and IBM did not have the staff or
institutional knowledge to maintain OS/2. The SmartSuite team was located there
as well. It ran on both OS/2 and Windows. It lost a lot of members and
knowledge as well. The remaining staff got rolled into the Notes team/group and
SmartSuite was sunset.

IBM has a long history of sunsetting PC products which are industry leaders
because upper management only wants to focus on mainframes and services.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #45 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #41)
> I don't see the advantage over the Navigator [1] or master documents [2].
> Users who are familiar with one kind of interaction may prefer this but
> there is no requirement missing, AFAICS. So the suggestion is to not change
> what we have (and where other users are familiar with).
> And while we have some interest in the topic, it's at the same time quite
> old and of less importance for the whole product. So setting back to medium.
> 
> [1]
> https://help.libreoffice.org/6.3/en-US/text/swriter/guide/arrange_chapters.
> html?=WRITER=UNIX
> [2]
> https://help.libreoffice.org/6.3/en-US/text/swriter/guide/globaldoc_howtos.
> html?DbPAR=WRITER#bm_id3145246

Well, first you would have to begin to understand that comparing Navigator and
master documents to TABBED DIVISIONS is like comparing pre-1700 flintlocks to
nuclear weapons.

Please do not assume a tab is a tab is a tab is a tab. Nothing could be further
from the truth.

If yourself and the powers that be want LO to never be more than something to
write letters home to mom from summer camp with, then so be it. These are the
kinds of word processors that don't get donations from people who write as part
of their living. I used to donate but I stopped a while back when it became
obvious LO wasn't interested in chasing the market of professional writers. Am
I wrong?

I've written quite a few books over the years. Not as many as some, but more
than most, especially those who utter the phrase "I have half a novel in a
drawer somewhere."

http://theminimumyouneedtoknow.com/

I will be the first to admit LO has achieved the functionality (sans reveal
codes) of Word Perfect 3 for DOS. Laying out a book was nearly impossible, but
it was the best we had. It forced us to use the archaic manuscript format with
a lot of publisher specific back-end processing.

Most will probably admit LO has achieved the functionality (sans reveal codes)
of Word Perfect 5 for OS/2. Laying out a book was somewhat ham fisted, but it
was a Godsend compared to other tools. That's the word processor I used to
create this title:

https://theminimumyouneedtoknow.com/zincit_book.html

The original draft (which took a year of writing) for this book
https://theminimumyouneedtoknow.com/app_book.html
was written with Lotus WordPro. You may wish to note that it is on Dr. Dobb's
list of recommended reading for all developers:
https://www.drdobbs.com/tools/developers-reading-list/232500396?pgno=6

I can tell you that book would have never been written, or at least completed,
without tabbed divisions to store all research in. The final version had to be
ported to Word Perfect because LWP didn't have a built in PDF creator and the
reasonably priced "fake printer drivers" which generated PDF files weren't
worth a fart in the wind back then.

The professional writer's market has been screaming for the return of LWP for a
very long time. IBM simply doesn't care about the PC market anymore. Your
Navigator came from IBM. They wanted a new editor for Lotus Notes and OO simply
wasn't even close to the task. Once they had Lotus Symphony working quite well,
they promptly abandoned it just like they abandoned Lotus SmartSuite when it
was a mighty fine office suite.

How bad has the professional writing world been screaming? So much so that a
company has launched a Windows and Mac only off-shoot. They didn't keep the
Linux beta. I see they've learned their lesson about pricing now too.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/store/scrivener?tab=Windows

When I first looked into that they were charging Word Perfect professional
edition prices. Yeah, I have a lot of copies of Word Perfect laying around. Any
time a client forces me to put the virus known as Windows on one of my
machines. For professional writing I don't touch Microsoft products, not if I
can avoid it.

Professional writers have a short list of things they need.

Running page headers and footers which are specific to a page style. (LO has
this)

A decent spell checker (LO using external thing which isn't as good as the
spell checkers for most commercial word processors, at least it isn't for
American English. Probably has a lot to do with the thing trying to stuff
British into the same dictionary. There's American and there is British. They
are remarkably different.)

Nice selection of fonts (LO has this)

Automatic grammar checker which flags odd spacing, double words, etc.(Jury
still out on this.)

TABBED DOCUMENT DIVISIONS to store research, deleted scenes, etc. in within the
same document file YET CAN BE INDIVIDUALLY HIDDEN FROM PRINTING AND EXPORTING.
Draggable so each tabbed division can contain a chapter. Re-arranging chapters
is simply moving tabs. The word processor must recognize tab moves and update
page numbering accordingly. Likewise, when a tab is hidden, no matter where it
is, it's 

[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #44 from Todd  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #43)
> No question that we have to improve the Navigator, a proposal is here [1].
> But despite all the shortcommings the basic way of dealing with content is
> working well. From the WYSIWYG point of view I doubt that putting content in
> tabbed sections is working well for the majority of users. And there are
> also many requests to have tabs for multiple documents in one app that would
> clash with your proposal.
> 

Hi Heiko,

I use both.  There is no comparison between the annoyance of the Navigator and
effectiveness division tabs.  This is why you now have an army of folks
requestion them.  I am not suggesting that you drop the navigator, but add the
extra usability feature of Division Tabs.  And of course, add the tabs into the
Navigator as well.

I am a consultant to small business.  I have installed installed LibreOffice on
probably a hundred client's computers.  I only have one company that uses
LibreOffice and another that half uses it.  Everyone else has removed it in
favour of you-know-who, which I also sell.  Part of the reason is that they
don't want to learn anything new, which you can do nothing about.  The other
part is of the reason is that so many of the features are difficult and obscure
to use.  Please take your users input and try to make LibreOffice better.

If you keep digging your feet in, your will continue to loose users.  I don't
loose them, I just sell the you-know-who from the evil empire.

Thank you for your consideration,
-T

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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--- Comment #43 from Heiko Tietze  ---
No question that we have to improve the Navigator, a proposal is here [1]. But
despite all the shortcommings the basic way of dealing with content is working
well. From the WYSIWYG point of view I doubt that putting content in tabbed
sections is working well for the majority of users. And there are also many
requests to have tabs for multiple documents in one app that would clash with
your proposal.

[1]
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/07/31/how-the-navigator-may-support-object-handling-in-libreoffice-draw/

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--- Comment #42 from Todd  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #41)
> I don't see the advantage over the Navigator [1] or master documents [2].
> Users who are familiar with one kind of interaction may prefer this but
> there is no requirement missing, AFAICS. So the suggestion is to not change
> what we have (and where other users are familiar with).
> And while we have some interest in the topic, it's at the same time quite
> old and of less importance for the whole product. So setting back to medium.

Heiko,

I am the original porter (OP) of this request.

I do constantly used both.  In my technical opinion, although your are
absolutely correct, both do work, your method is a good 10 times more difficult
to use and is not as intuitive to the user.  Please do not look at this a "we
already have a way, don't fix what is not broken", but as "how can we make this
more user friendly". If you like doing thing the obscure, difficult way, leave
the current method in place as an alternative.

You already support tabs in Calc, so add the feature to Writer should be a
piece of cake.

It would be wonderful if you would institute this request and would EVER fix
the envelope printing, then I and others could FINALLY get off the DEFUNCT Word
Pro, which works better than Writer and has been dead and unsupported for about
20 years or so.

This is what tabs looks like in Calc.  Here are two tabs.  One is "January" and
its 1:1 text is "Month 1"; the second its "February" and its 1:1 text is "Month
02":

   


 
  Month 01
 

   

   


 
  Month 02
 

   


You now have an army of folks also requesting this, so it is time it got
implemented.

Many thanks,
-T

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |heiko.tietze@documentfounda
   |.freedesktop.org|tion.org,
   ||xiscofa...@libreoffice.org
   Keywords|needsUXEval |

--- Comment #41 from Heiko Tietze  ---
I don't see the advantage over the Navigator [1] or master documents [2]. Users
who are familiar with one kind of interaction may prefer this but there is no
requirement missing, AFAICS. So the suggestion is to not change what we have
(and where other users are familiar with).
And while we have some interest in the topic, it's at the same time quite old
and of less importance for the whole product. So setting back to medium.

[1]
https://help.libreoffice.org/6.3/en-US/text/swriter/guide/arrange_chapters.html?=WRITER=UNIX
[2]
https://help.libreoffice.org/6.3/en-US/text/swriter/guide/globaldoc_howtos.html?DbPAR=WRITER#bm_id3145246

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Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|medium  |high

--- Comment #40 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Todd from comment #37)
> Please place the priority back to high.

(In reply to roland from comment #38)
> Please return to high priority.

Xisco is always open for good arguments. So just change it yourself.
Haven't looked into the topic but put it on the agenda for the next design
meeting now.

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--- Comment #39 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
While you are at it, purge all of the java code from this product. That's
causing massive issues on multiple platforms. Icky nasty java code and garbage
collection causing real performance degradation. Will log another bug for that
though.

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--- Comment #37 from Todd  ---
(In reply to Xisco Faulí from comment #36)
> Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower
> than 5

Comments 17, 23, 25, 26, 28, 35 makes six duplicates.  Please place the
priority back to high.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #38 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
(In reply to Xisco Faulí from comment #36)
> Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower
> than 5

Please return to high priority. Allowing duplicates to rot into oblivion isn't
reducing the importance of this bug or improving the product.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium

--- Comment #36 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower than
5

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

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--- Comment #35 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 121809 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #34 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #33)
> (In reply to David from comment #29)
> > This bug most definitely is not a duplicate of bug 37134.  Bug 37134
> > concerns having each document as a tab within a single application window. 
> > This bug is about sections of a document being displayed as tabs within the
> > document.
> 
> The screenshots show a different situation. What I understand by " sections
> of a document being displayed" separately is what MSO has where you can
> split the scrollbar.

That would be an incorrect understanding. The screenshot uploaded 2016-05-26
clearly shows a completely different situation.

I'm several weeks away from finishing my current contract and going home. When
I get home I will actually write a multi-part document and take screen shots
for you. I may even burn a few days attempting to install SmartSuite under
Wine.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #33 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to David from comment #29)
> This bug most definitely is not a duplicate of bug 37134.  Bug 37134
> concerns having each document as a tab within a single application window. 
> This bug is about sections of a document being displayed as tabs within the
> document.

The screenshots show a different situation. What I understand by " sections of
a document being displayed" separately is what MSO has where you can split the
scrollbar.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #32 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
Please focus on the Lotus SmartSuite 98 version. This was when the product ran
on both Windows and OS/2 and was pretty much the hay day of the software.

Honestly, until I did this search I didn't know IBM didn't officially kill the
product until 2014.

https://archive.org/details/LotusSmartSuite99

Don't know if I would trust the download link on that site though. It "looks"
like an official IBM download. I would be surprised if IBM just dumped it onto
the PC market for free, but IBM sold off the PC business quite some time ago so
it is possible.

Ebay seems to have some legitimate copies.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/3768/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=lotus+smartsuite

I've not used it, but Scrivener has some of the same capabilities.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

I would be very careful where one installs it. Lots of people making claims
like this ebay item.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LOTUS-1-2-3-SMARTSUITE-9-7-Organizer-Approach-Word-Pro-Windows-XP-7-8-10/143282147342?hash=item215c48100e:g:qc0AAOSwnONZBBAC

I had a Windows 7 ultimate edition I did manage to install it on. Other version
of Windows it would jack up. Maybe Windows 10 got a bit better about being
backwardly compatible with software really written for 98 and barely updated to
run on 2k? Best to set up a VM with an old copy of 98 or 2k.

There is a really long message thread here:
http://www.matnewman.com/webs/personal/matblog.nsf/dx/a-quiet-farewell-lotus-1-2-3-organizer-and-smartsuite?opendocument

It's about all things Lotus Organizer and Lotus Smartsuite by professionals and
journalists who still use it. It appears some are successfully installing it on
Windows 10.

If you are "significantly reworking the UI" then you might want to take a good
look at Lotus Organizer
https://www.revolvy.com/page/IBM-Lotus-Organizer?cr=1
as well as the Smart Center or Command Center (name depends on who you ask.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lotus_SmartCenter_9.8_with_open_drawers.png

The file cabinet drawers were a really nice touch. It made everything feel
completely integrated, especially with Organizer and email. It was and is much
nicer than opening the LibreOffice main application and getting a list of apps
down the side and a screen full of document images.

Just my 0.002

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37
   ||134
 Status|REOPENED|NEW
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org
   Keywords||needsUXEval

--- Comment #31 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Agree. => NEW

bug 37134 as see also, much of the framework needed to provide Tabbed UI
(holding Page, Section, Division, MasterDoc elements) would first need to be
fleshed out with a proper MDI

Both need extensive UX design and development effort.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #30 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
David is correct. Under Lotus WordPro a document was its own little file system
contained within a file. Each tab was a document section so you could keep
research notes, outlines, to-do, and make each chapter of a book its own tab. A
book could be re-arranged by dragging the tabs to change the order. When
printing you were allowed to select a range of tabs for printing.

Another poster was correct in that it is much like the "sheets" concept of a
spreadsheet.

What is important to understand is this wasn't just a navigation tool like the
Navigator sidebar. It was a document organization tool. Instead of having to
remember to copy an entire set of files when sending the document to a new
machine there was one file conceptually consisting of many individual files.
Custom styles were also contained within it. I believe it also had a "fat"
document feature which could be turned on. The "fat" document feature, much
like that of Word Perfect, would also store the fonts within the document. Not
just the name and family, but the entire font so a document could be moved to a
completely different machine without fear of pagination and appearance getting
scrambled by the new machine not having the correct fonts.

This is a real problem today with LO. If you are creating a document on a
Debian based machine which has the t1-cyrillic font set and send it to OpenSuSE
or some other RPM based distro machine where that font package isn't in the
repos one must jump through quite a few hoops to get the fonts installed on the
machine.

Microsoft Word users rarely face this issue because they tend to be far less
creative, using only the fonts bundled with Word and Windows.

According to this link,
https://www.file-extensions.org/lwp-file-extension
LO already supports the LWP file format. I'm actually okay with LO fleshing out
the LWP support completely and only enabling these features when using the LWP
file format.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

David  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|DUPLICATE   |---
 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED

--- Comment #29 from David  ---
This bug most definitely is not a duplicate of bug 37134.  Bug 37134 concerns
having each document as a tab within a single application window.  This bug is
about sections of a document being displayed as tabs within the document.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33 |
   |232 |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37 |
   |134,|
   |https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10 |
   |1776|
 CC||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Roman Kuznetsov <79045_79...@mail.ru> changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |DUPLICATE
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED

--- Comment #28 from Roman Kuznetsov <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---


*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 37134 ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #27 from Stian  ---
Damn, people have been asking for this since 2003! :-O

I find it very strange this wouldn't be implemented. Especially when the
functionality is implemented in Calc. It seems logical to me that the source
code in Calc for that functionality could be easily implemented into Writer.

About the file format compliance. Since this hasn't been implemented or even
made ready within the standard, I'd suggest making an extended ODT format (or
not, it doesn't matter as long as it works in Libre Office). What matters is
the feature implementation, really.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||stian.aarskaug@protonmail.c
   ||h

--- Comment #26 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 121809 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab ( similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Adolfo Jayme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||jo...@email2.me

--- Comment #25 from Adolfo Jayme  ---
*** Bug 38401 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab ( similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Thomas Lendo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||108137


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108137
[Bug 108137] [META] Writer feature enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab ( similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #24 from Alex Thurgood  ---
As a former user of Lotus Smartsuite, I can only agree.
Another use case, as illustrated by the duplicate I just flagged, would be the
ability to use the tabs to create tabbed forms for database work.

Currently, in a form, one can only use sections which one can hide or reveal,
but the form designer is still constrained to single page and corresponding
page width. Using tabs in forms to jump from one data entry section to another
is a common UI-design tool in db form design, and is present in many
corresponding database products.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab ( similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Alex Thurgood  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||c.bu...@posteo.jp

--- Comment #23 from Alex Thurgood  ---
*** Bug 111431 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|101776  |


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776
[Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document'
view/ sheets/ presentation
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[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||z...@freedbms.net
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33
   ||232

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab ( similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||101776
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||1776


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776
[Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document'
view/ sheets/ presentation
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab ( similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #22 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
Created attachment 125298
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=125298=edit
Better screen shot of single WordPro document with tabbed divisions and
sections

Here is a better example of tabbed document in WordPro. I installed SmartSuite
98 under wine on 64-bit Ubuntu 16.04. I took the default wine config of XP.
Notice how the tab I titled Main Document expands to include Section 1 as that
section is part of the division. Research Notes and Another Division are not
different document files. They are different divisions within the same WordPro
document file.

I do hate to promote anything on Amazon, but several people are selling it on
there.

http://www.amazon.com/Lotus-SmartSuite-9-8-Millenium-Edition/dp/B0002Z9TGO

Other places:
https://www.buycheapsoftware.com/details~productID~1004.asp

Not certain about this download site:
http://lotus-smartsuite.joydownload.com/

Quite honestly, SmartSuite was the best office package ever created. IBM just
chose to bungle it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

Adolfo Jayme  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bz.apache.org/ooo/s
   ||how_bug.cgi?id=20701,
   ||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37
   ||134

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #20 from sasha.libreoff...@gmail.com ---
Created attachment 108964
  -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=108964action=edit
screenshot of Libreoffice with several document opened as tabs

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #21 from rol...@logikalsolutions.com ---
Documents opened as tabs is a _totally_ unrelated animal.  You presented a fish
and this bug is talking about a tiger.

Lotus WordPro, and another commercial product currently on the market, had
tabbed document sections.  You could dragdrop the tabs to visually re-order a
book or some other document.  You could control which tabs were included in
print jobs (so your research notes didn't get printed with your manuscript.)

Many authors and technical writers use the tabbed document sections to contain
a chapter, TOC, index, research, to-do lists, etc.  When you want to work on
any particular section you click on the tab and work on it.

The massive difference here is that everything is in a single data file.  What
currently exists is an unworkable concession of having 90+ files in a single
directory.  Very easy for catastrophe to strike.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173

--- Comment #19 from Todd toddandma...@zoho.com ---
Dear Libre Office Developers,

Guys!  Ignoring this is an absolute DISASTER!

I just found out the hard way that RHEL 7 and its clones are 64 bit only and
that it no longer will run 32 bit Windows apps under Wine, meaning no Word Pro
under Wine.  I could switch to Libre Office on this system, but the PERFORMANCE
HIT on loosing the Division Tabs is SO GREAT that I will instead RIP OUT RHEL7
and install Fedora.

Wow!  What a pain in the neck (not my exact word)!  This is how much of a
performance hit you are causing by IGNORING THIS REQUEST.  PLEASE STOP DRAGGING
YOUR FEET!  This was request on 2011-01-15!  This isn't funny anymore!

Yours frustratingly so,
-T

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus WordPro)

[bugzilla-daemon]

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Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Functionality request for   |Tabbed UI (Writer):
   |Writer: add tabs like in|Division/section-per-tab
   |Lotus Wordpro Type Tabbed   |(similar to Lotus WordPro)
   |Divisions   |

--- Comment #18 from Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com ---
Summary amended for clarity.

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