[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
   Keywords|needsDevAdvice  |

--- Comment #18 from Buovjaga  ---
Great, let's close

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #17 from Andrew Sinclair  ---
I tested this today on:

Ubuntu version 6.0.7.3; and
Mac version: 6.2.8.2

I'm happy to say that the problem seems to be solved. After accepting or
rejecting a change now, the cursor remains at the location of the accepted
change or rejected change. It doesn't move to the next change at all, so it
doesn't skip the next change.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #16 from QA Administrators  ---
Dear Russell Nile,

To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today,
LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed
bugs which have not been touched for over a year.

There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this
bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the
details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in
getting confirmation that the bug is still present.

If you have time, please do the following:

Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice
from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/

If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information
from Help - About LibreOffice.

If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to
RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help
- About LibreOffice.

Please DO NOT

Update the version field
Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker)
Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular
meaning that is not 
appropriate in this case)


If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a
REGRESSION. To do so:
1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your
bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from
http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

2. Test your bug
3. Leave a comment with your results.
4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo';
4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword


Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat:
https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.freenode.net/#libreoffice-qa

Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone!

Warm Regards,
QA Team

MassPing-UntouchedBug

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Alex Thurgood  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||4305

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Alex Thurgood  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||4797

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Pénzes Dávid  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||83946


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83946
[Bug 83946] [META] Bugs for tracking changes
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsDevEval|needsDevAdvice

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsDevEval

--- Comment #15 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Andrew Sinclair from comment #14)
> "Moves" in Workshare seem to be based solely on text similarities. My use
> case is legal documents. Those tend to use similar wording in multiple
> places, which leads to false positives (something being shown as a "move"
> that's really just a common phrase added in one place and deleted from
> another). Another limitation to their implementation is that text cannot be
> both moved and edited, so compare results show some part of the text moved
> and other parts edited. It's generally messy enough not to be useful to me.

Accepted. So we should stay with replace or override additionally to
add/delete. Devs, is it possible to introduce this state?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #14 from Andrew Sinclair  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #13)
> (In reply to Andrew Sinclair from comment #12)
> > ...Workshare does has a third category beyond additions and
> > deletions: "moves". I don't find it particularly useful though.
> 
> Why not? You don't delete a full paragraph but _move_ it to some other
> chapter. Wouldn't be obvious unless the state is correctly set. I'm rather
> afraid of the correct implementation. Is copy/paste + delete (or vice versa)
> the same as cut & paste? Not when we follow my suggestion in comment 11,
> which would be, however,  strange for the user.

"Moves" in Workshare seem to be based solely on text similarities. My use case
is legal documents. Those tend to use similar wording in multiple places, which
leads to false positives (something being shown as a "move" that's really just
a common phrase added in one place and deleted from another). Another
limitation to their implementation is that text cannot be both moved and
edited, so compare results show some part of the text moved and other parts
edited. It's generally messy enough not to be useful to me.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #13 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Andrew Sinclair from comment #12)
> ...Workshare does has a third category beyond additions and
> deletions: "moves". I don't find it particularly useful though.

Why not? You don't delete a full paragraph but _move_ it to some other chapter.
Wouldn't be obvious unless the state is correctly set. I'm rather afraid of the
correct implementation. Is copy/paste + delete (or vice versa) the same as cut
& paste? Not when we follow my suggestion in comment 11, which would be,
however,  strange for the user.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #12 from Andrew Sinclair  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> (In reply to kalirren from comment #8)
> > ...I don't mind clicking "accept"/"reject" twice for each replacement;
> 
> Others might be annoyed from the need to accept repeatedly. Do you think
> your interaction is the average?

I don't find it annoying to accept adjacent additions and deletions in two
steps. I think the issue in this bug is just that upon one acceptance, the
adjacent change is skipped. 

As there is not currently any "replacement" type of change (only additions and
deletions), I disagree that resolving this bug requires any input is as to how
to handle replacement changes.

Tracking replacements distinctly from additions and deletions would be an
interesting feature, but for me it wouldn't be very useful. I suspect that if
were particularly useful to others, Word, Gdocs, and Workshare (doc comparison
software popular with law firms) would have already implemented it.
Interestingly, Workshare does has a third category beyond additions and
deletions: "moves". I don't find it particularly useful though.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 Status|NEEDINFO|NEW
   Severity|minor   |normal

--- Comment #11 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Björn Michaelsen from comment #6)
> a/ using next change jumps first to the dog -> lamb replacement, then to the
> truck -> farm replacement, then to the there -> here replacement.
> b/ accepting the changes works consistent with a/
> c/ rejecting a change, rejects the deletion (dog), but does _NOT_ reject the
> addition (lamb). Movement is consistent with a/ and b/ though.
> d/ moving backwards through changes walks over every tracked change
> separately: so each deletion and insertion is handled individually. This is
> consistent with the rejection in c/ but not consistent with the movement in
> c/, nor with the behaviour in a/ and b/
> 
> Adding needsUXEval: We need some input on the desired handling of
> replacements: Should they be handled like one action as per a/ and b/ or as
> a insertion and a separate deletion as per d/? Keeping this in NEEDINFO
> until UX has an answer.

The problem is that a change is done with two modifications, delete and add.
When I replace McDonald by Trump it adds two entries to the list of changes in
the sidebar. The same is true for MS Word where also both operations are shown
separately in the sidebar, and I can also accept the deletion but reject the
addition. (Deletion is visualized like a comment and the addition inline when
the sidebar with all changes is not open.)

Ideally we flag this as _override_ additionally to the pure add and delete.
When the user selects a word/paragraph and enters text the change is treated as
override and accept/reject are applied at once as expected in this ticket. When
the word is deleted first and the replacement added as a follow-up, these steps
are done separately and should be stored as such.

If this is not possible I'd rather keep the current behavior because a) it
works the same in other word processors, and b) it's safer to click twice.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #9)
> (In reply to kalirren from comment #8)
> > In general, where should we give comments to UX?
> 
> I think this would be pretty efficient:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings

Feel free to write a ticket about your enhancement requests, the QA team will
set keywords appropriately so that the UX people read it. Hi-jacking this bug
will most likely end up in the nirvana.
If you are interested you may also read
http://user-prompt.com/tracking-changes-with-libreoffice/

(In reply to kalirren from comment #8)
> ...I don't mind clicking "accept"/"reject" twice for each replacement;

Others might be annoyed from the need to accept repeatedly. Do you think your
interaction is the average?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #9 from Buovjaga  ---
(In reply to kalirren from comment #8)
> In general, where should we give comments to UX?

I think this would be pretty efficient:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #8 from kalir...@gmail.com ---
In general, where should we give comments to UX?

As a user, I think it would be best to not have any special case for
"replacements" as a type of change. I think this important because users will
vary in how they replace text in different situations (e.g., some will have
insertions before the deletions, some will have deletions before the
insertions, some will have insertions, deletions, and more insertions again.)

Please treat every insertion and deletion as a separate change, and move
between them sequentially.  I don't mind clicking "accept"/"reject" twice for
each replacement; I do mind if I cannot trust which part of the document I am
accepting or rejecting in cases where multiple replacements are concatenated. I
also mind if I start at the beginning of a document, accept and reject changes
to the end of the document, and discover I have not accepted/rejected every
proposed change.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/ action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

--- Comment #7 from Andrew Sinclair  ---
I am having this same problem with 5.1.3.2 on Ubuntu 16.04.

It's clear to me that skipping a change is not expected behavior, even if two
changes next to each other (e.g. a deletion and insertion) might be thought of
as a single change. I don't think that question needs to be answered: "next
change" should always mean "next tracked deletion or insertion". I'm just a
user though.

Playing around with the test document, I notice some really inconsistent
behavior. I encounter the skipping the first time through, but if I go back and
forth with the next and previous buttons, some of the skipping stops.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 95357] TRACK CHANGES: Change tracking movement/action are inconsistent for replacements

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95357

Björn Michaelsen  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Change tracking |TRACK CHANGES: Change
   |movement/action are |tracking movement/action
   |inconsistent for|are inconsistent for
   |replacements|replacements

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