Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Hi Jean, Le 2014-01-12 23:25, Jean Weber a écrit : The user guides refer to the built-in Help system which is reached by pressing F1 or choosing Help LibreOffice Help on the menu bar. Built-in may not be the best term but it is short, descriptive, and literal. Is it obvious? Your call. (I still haven't done any research to see what might be a common term these days.) --Jean Thanks for looking it up and reporting back the term. It does seem to be quite clear and unmistakable as a term, and, as we were also talking of an abbreviation for any of the terms: * Built-in Help - BIH or even if we were to do * Built-in Help System - BIHS. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Hi Jean Jean Weber wrote The user guides refer to the built-in Help system which is reached by pressing F1 or choosing Help LibreOffice Help on the menu bar. Built-in may not be the best term but it is short, descriptive, and literal. Is it obvious? Your call. As I mentioned in the original topic, the Help file is a separate download so calling it Built-in doesn't make much sense... When you click on the LibreOffice Help menu option (under Help) you are either redirected to the LO site (IF you are connected to the Internet) or the Offline help (not the printed manuals :) ) is loaded (IF you installed it separately and IF the Help file you installed is *exactly* the same Language as the UI) Maybe Installed Help? (it is only true when installed...) If TDF reconsidered about having a separate installer for each language with the included Help (as AOO keeps IMO wisely doing) then this discussion would be solved with Built-in :) Just my 2 cents... -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-The-term-Online-Help-was-Use-of-abbreviations-in-this-ML-tp4091690p4091974.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Le 2014-01-11 08:05, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : Hi Pedro, *, Am 11.01.2014 12:50 schrieb Pedro pedl...@gmail.com mailto:pedl...@gmail.com: [abbreviations or the term Online Help] ... So let's hear some suggestions. I assume everyone will understand which one is meant when they read the term Offline Help in isolation. If you disagree, please also suggest a different term for that. Ciao Christian I have been following this discussion and the only worry I have is that the doc team is not included on it. IMO, Jean should be aware of this discussion as the acronyms and any potential changes may have an effect on the various documentation terminology that is being used in our docs. It would be nice if any changes were coordinated with all affected groups. From my point of view OLH (Online Help), and, from a vernacular point of view for most users, would mean that once you choose that particular link/menu item, that you would be sent online on the internet for the help files. The OLH menu link, when viewed in context in any particular software package, usually means to a user that she/he will be taken to help files for that particular software available on the internet. IMO, if we would want to make it clearer that the help files are NOT online, then another name/acronym should be created to properly describe the menu choice. Making as short, descriptive, obvious and as literal as possible, IMO, should be our primary goal; this will ensure that all competency levels of users (whether newbies or knowledgeable users) are clear as to the menu choice they are making. Perhaps just labelling Help Documents would be sufficient enough. The fact that there is no online will be obvious enough that the user is not being sent online for help docs and that the local files are always accessible to the user. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:31 PM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 2014-01-11 08:05, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : Hi Pedro, *, Am 11.01.2014 12:50 schrieb Pedro pedl...@gmail.com mailto:pedl...@gmail.com: [abbreviations or the term Online Help] ... So let's hear some suggestions. I assume everyone will understand which one is meant when they read the term Offline Help in isolation. If you disagree, please also suggest a different term for that. Ciao Christian I have been following this discussion and the only worry I have is that the doc team is not included on it. IMO, Jean should be aware of this discussion as the acronyms and any potential changes may have an effect on the various documentation terminology that is being used in our docs. It would be nice if any changes were coordinated with all affected groups. From my point of view OLH (Online Help), and, from a vernacular point of view for most users, would mean that once you choose that particular link/menu item, that you would be sent online on the internet for the help files. The OLH menu link, when viewed in context in any particular software package, usually means to a user that she/he will be taken to help files for that particular software available on the internet. IMO, if we would want to make it clearer that the help files are NOT online, then another name/acronym should be created to properly describe the menu choice. Making as short, descriptive, obvious and as literal as possible, IMO, should be our primary goal; this will ensure that all competency levels of users (whether newbies or knowledgeable users) are clear as to the menu choice they are making. Perhaps just labelling Help Documents would be sufficient enough. The fact that there is no online will be obvious enough that the user is not being sent online for help docs and that the local files are always accessible to the user. I've been following this thread, as it relates to a (minor) concern that I've had for some time. (My computer use goes back far enough that to me, online means on the computer (not on the Internet) versus in a book; but I'm well aware that the term means something different these days, especially to younger users. So, yes, we need a better one; and yes, the term needs to be the same in the user guides as it is in the program and elsewhere. I haven't done any research to see what might be a common term these days, so I don't immediately have a suggestion. I'll get back to you later today when I've had a chance to consider this a bit more. --Jean ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:31 PM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 2014-01-11 08:05, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : Hi Pedro, *, Am 11.01.2014 12:50 schrieb Pedro pedl...@gmail.com mailto:pedl...@gmail.com: [abbreviations or the term Online Help] ... So let's hear some suggestions. I assume everyone will understand which one is meant when they read the term Offline Help in isolation. If you disagree, please also suggest a different term for that. Ciao Christian I have been following this discussion and the only worry I have is that the doc team is not included on it. IMO, Jean should be aware of this discussion as the acronyms and any potential changes may have an effect on the various documentation terminology that is being used in our docs. It would be nice if any changes were coordinated with all affected groups. From my point of view OLH (Online Help), and, from a vernacular point of view for most users, would mean that once you choose that particular link/menu item, that you would be sent online on the internet for the help files. The OLH menu link, when viewed in context in any particular software package, usually means to a user that she/he will be taken to help files for that particular software available on the internet. IMO, if we would want to make it clearer that the help files are NOT online, then another name/acronym should be created to properly describe the menu choice. Making as short, descriptive, obvious and as literal as possible, IMO, should be our primary goal; this will ensure that all competency levels of users (whether newbies or knowledgeable users) are clear as to the menu choice they are making. Perhaps just labelling Help Documents would be sufficient enough. The fact that there is no online will be obvious enough that the user is not being sent online for help docs and that the local files are always accessible to the user. I've been following this thread, as it relates to a (minor) concern that I've had for some time. (My computer use goes back far enough that to me, online means on the computer (not on the Internet) versus in a book; but I'm well aware that the term means something different these days, especially to younger users. So, yes, we need a better one; and yes, the term needs to be the same in the user guides as it is in the program and elsewhere. I haven't done any research to see what might be a common term these days, so I don't immediately have a suggestion. I'll get back to you later today when I've had a chance to consider this a bit more. --Jean The user guides refer to the built-in Help system which is reached by pressing F1 or choosing Help LibreOffice Help on the menu bar. Built-in may not be the best term but it is short, descriptive, and literal. Is it obvious? Your call. (I still haven't done any research to see what might be a common term these days.) --Jean ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Hi Pedro, *, Am 11.01.2014 12:50 schrieb Pedro pedl...@gmail.com: [abbreviations or the term Online Help] To make a long story short: this term comes from a time when you would buy software in a box and get a thick printed manual along with the installation medium. Long version follows… Online help is the stuff you had installed to your computer and the stuff on paper was the offline variant. Back in the days there was no internet, let alone flatrates. And in the early days of internet, people gathered in newsgroups that were easy to handle offline, sync within a few seconds of expensive connection time. It also happens that a lot of the people who were gathering in those groups also joined the OpenOffice.org project once it was announced, and later then moved to LibreOffice. They took their vocabulary with them, and by just talking with each other on the lists, new members got to know the terminology. Now a lot of people without any previous experience join, and now we also have a web-based help, so I agree that the clear-back-then term became ambiguous, even misleading. At least I refer to the web help as wiki help, but that it uses a wiki is irrelevant and also might change in future. Just calling the web based one Online help doesn't cut it either as it has been used with a different meaning for was more than a decade. So let's hear some suggestions. I assume everyone will understand which one is meant when they read the term Offline Help in isolation. If you disagree, please also suggest a different term for that. Ciao Christian ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Hi Christian, all Even if I follow mailing lists, I still find OLH quite confusing.To avoid this kind of issue, I'd suggest to rename OLH to something like Integrated Help or On Board Help, and Wiki Help to something more descriptive like Internet Help. Oh, and it might fall back to IH in both cases to keep us amused ;) Just my two ¢... Regards -- Xuacu 2014/1/11 Christian Lohmaier lohma...@googlemail.com: Hi Pedro, *, Am 11.01.2014 12:50 schrieb Pedro pedl...@gmail.com: [abbreviations or the term Online Help] To make a long story short: this term comes from a time when you would buy software in a box and get a thick printed manual along with the installation medium. Long version follows… Online help is the stuff you had installed to your computer and the stuff on paper was the offline variant. Back in the days there was no internet, let alone flatrates. And in the early days of internet, people gathered in newsgroups that were easy to handle offline, sync within a few seconds of expensive connection time. It also happens that a lot of the people who were gathering in those groups also joined the OpenOffice.org project once it was announced, and later then moved to LibreOffice. They took their vocabulary with them, and by just talking with each other on the lists, new members got to know the terminology. Now a lot of people without any previous experience join, and now we also have a web-based help, so I agree that the clear-back-then term became ambiguous, even misleading. At least I refer to the web help as wiki help, but that it uses a wiki is irrelevant and also might change in future. Just calling the web based one Online help doesn't cut it either as it has been used with a different meaning for was more than a decade. So let's hear some suggestions. I assume everyone will understand which one is meant when they read the term Offline Help in isolation. If you disagree, please also suggest a different term for that. Ciao Christian ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Hi Christian, all Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote Online help is the stuff you had installed to your computer and the stuff on paper was the offline variant. That makes sense :) I never got the time to read those heavy printed manuals but they did have some points for them: no need for an internet connection, they were quite extensive in explaining the features and you could read them anywhere ;) Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote At least I refer to the web help as wiki help, but that it uses a wiki is irrelevant and also might change in future. Just calling the web based one Online help doesn't cut it either as it has been used with a different meaning for was more than a decade. Wiki does refer to the tool which as you say could change in the future. My opinion is that possibly the most accurate expression is Internet Help. This way people will know that it's on the Internet and if they are not connected they don't have access to it. Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote So let's hear some suggestions. I assume everyone will understand which one is meant when they read the term Offline Help in isolation. If you disagree, please also suggest a different term for that. In my opinion Offline is quite clear but maybe people who used printed manuals disagree... In any case the most important part is that the name is consistent within LO/TDF In the download page (http://www.libreoffice.org/download/) they are referred to as built-in help which was true when the help file was bundled with the installer (I still think TDF should go back to that model) but now it's a separate download, so it's not really built-in... Cheers, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-The-term-Online-Help-was-Use-of-abbreviations-in-this-ML-tp4091690p4091706.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] The term Online Help (was: Use of abbreviations in this ML)
Hello Pedro, *, On Samstag, 11. Januar 2014 17:19 Pedro wrote: snip Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote At least I refer to the web help as wiki help, but that it uses a wiki is irrelevant and also might change in future. Just calling the web based one Online help doesn't cut it either as it has been used with a different meaning for was more than a decade. Wiki does refer to the tool which as you say could change in the future. My opinion is that possibly the most accurate expression is Internet Help. I think, this is also somehow misleading ... For me, it sounds more like a help related to the Internet (and/or problems with it), not for a particular software. But maybe this depends on your English knowledge, different background etc. ... ;) This way people will know that it's on the Internet and if they are not connected they don't have access to it. See above. As soon as I read your Internet Help above, I got a different idea of it than you intended ... snip HTH Thomas. -- NP: Nine Inch Nails – Ghosts I ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
