[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |heiko.tietze@documentfounda |.freedesktop.org|tion.org Keywords|needsUXEval | --- Comment #19 from Heiko Tietze --- We discussed the topic in the design meeting. (In reply to ady from comment #17) > If you are going to just write "use the help content", then what exactly > would be the real utility of the hint text? Tomaz had probably a hyperlink in mind. It was discussed to alternatively change the label depending on the UI mode, or amend the existing text with the Notebookbar solution. This idea has some flaws. But the conclusion was to use a more generic description. That could be to omit the passage about the menu (was rejected), or something like "..."Use the command 'Protect Sheet' for this.". -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added CC||michael.me...@collabora.com --- Comment #18 from V Stuart Foote --- (In reply to Tomaz Vajngerl from comment #16) > Instead of pointing to where the functionality can be enabled/disabled, why > not point to the help pages for "Protect sheet" functionality instead. If > the user is not familiar with that functionality, they will want to know > more details anyway and in the help it is described how and where to > enable/disable it for various UI variants. +1, I think it would be reasonable to link to the appropriate help pages, but as @ady notes that is a lot of locations in the MUFFIN NB UI assemblages to be tweaked. Simply deleting the current "hints" is not the way to go. And certainly not one at a time. And IIRC Collabora alone has moved by default to the NB Tabbed UI. So will someone there orchestrate the changes at least for the NB Tabbed UI, and maybe easy hack the rest of the NB modes? And, there is the bug 107343 view toggle for the main menu that would otherwise address those instances referring to a menu item. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #17 from ady --- (In reply to Tomaz Vajngerl from comment #16) > Instead of pointing to where the functionality can be enabled/disabled, why > not point to the help pages for "Protect sheet" functionality instead. If > the user is not familiar with that functionality, they will want to know > more details anyway and in the help it is described how and where to > enable/disable it for various UI variants. The hint text is adequate as-is; any user that wants to use the (online or installed) help content can do it without changing the hint text, and with no need for any hint text at all. If the fact that, by user's choice, the menu bar is hidden and all the help tips/hints would need to be modified for that, then _every_single_hint_text would be useless, because _all_ the menu items are not shown according to user's choice – not just one specific menu item that is being the target in this ticket. To be clear, I do not agree with such deletion or changes in such direction. Since the menu bar could be hidden with any UI variant (not just with the Tabbed UI), then all hints would need to be deleted, under such reasoning. Moreover, most UI variants have shortcomings, and the Tabbed UI in particular lacks a lot of functions and its customization is very limited. Therefore, the menu bar is frequently required. If there is one more-or-less stable part of the UI in Calc is the items in the menu bar, also in relation to other/similar spreadsheet tools. If you are going to just write "use the help content", then what exactly would be the real utility of the hint text? No, absolutely disagree. Leave the help hints as-is, and let users read the (online) help content whenever they want to search for more info; help buttons and F1 are frequently available for that. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #16 from Tomaz Vajngerl --- Instead of pointing to where the functionality can be enabled/disabled, why not point to the help pages for "Protect sheet" functionality instead. If the user is not familiar with that functionality, they will want to know more details anyway and in the help it is described how and where to enable/disable it for various UI variants. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #15 from V Stuart Foote --- (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #14) > (In reply to ady from comment #13) > > (In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #12) > > > Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 > > > > " > > This menu doesn't exist when using the tabbed UI > > " > > > > That's not true, for the nth time. > > Agree. This is not a legitimate approach to documentation of the MUFFIN UI > assemblages. The hint in the current help "Select 'Protect Sheet' from the > 'Tools' menu." is a valid description. One just has to expose the main menu. > > We reached a point some time ago that the MUFFIN NB flavors would never > fully implement the scope of TB, Menu and Dialog. > > The 'Menubar' (.uno:Menubar) is placed on the MUFFIN NB or Hamburger, and we > have bug 107343 lingering for a global keyboard shortcut to toggle main menu > visible conveniently regardless of the MUFFIN NB mode in use. UNO for hiding/showing the the main menu was https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/28044 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added CC||vsfo...@libreoffice.org --- Comment #14 from V Stuart Foote --- (In reply to ady from comment #13) > (In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #12) > > Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 > > " > This menu doesn't exist when using the tabbed UI > " > > That's not true, for the nth time. Agree. This is not a legitimate approach to documentation of the MUFFIN UI assemblages. The hint in the current help "Select 'Protect Sheet' from the 'Tools' menu." is a valid description. One just has to expose the main menu. We reached a point some time ago that the MUFFIN NB flavors would never fully implement the scope of TB, Menu and Dialog. The 'Menubar' (.uno:Menubar) is placed on the MUFFIN NB or Hamburger, and we have bug 107343 lingering for a global keyboard shortcut to toggle main menu visible conveniently regardless of the MUFFIN NB mode in use. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #13 from ady --- (In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #12) > Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 " This menu doesn't exist when using the tabbed UI " That's not true, for the nth time. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 Hubert Figuiere changed: What|Removed |Added Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |h...@figuiere.net |desktop.org | -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 Hubert Figuiere changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |ASSIGNED --- Comment #12 from Hubert Figuiere --- Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #11 from ady --- @Timur, We have different opinions. Please respect that, instead of tagging my comments. I am confident that experience with spreadsheets tools is very relevant here, and not all of us have the same experiences in that regard. The summary of this report says: " UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist " The _menu_ exists. It might not be shown for some users, but the menu exits. What does not exist is an item in the Tools _toolbar_ in the Tabbed UI that is named as "Protect Sheet". So, based on that summary and the fact that the menu exists (but not shown for some users that decide not to show it), this is not a bug report. Deleting the text is, IMNSHO, not an enhancement, at all. Expressing that opinion does not make it "no value". -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #10 from ady --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8) > Static text to explain the UI/interaction is bad per se. We could just > remove "Select 'Protect Sheet' from..." to make the tip compliant with all > UI variants. Absolutely disagree. Think about the reason to add such help text in the first place. Newbies get at least a hint of what needs to be done, instead of (incorrectly) thinking that cell protection is enough. The text is consistent with _all_ UI variants The menu is not always shown for every user, whichever UI is being used, even in standard – exactly the same as having to open some dialogue that is not already automatically opened, or having to go to some official help document to find further info. This report is about a user mistaking a menu with a toolbar, in whichever UI variant. Such confusion can happen to anyone, newbie or experienced user, any day of the week. If at least the UI was consistently editable (which is _not_), then the discussion would be worth something. I am absolutely completely against changing nor deleting this help text. Experience has to count for something. You learn with this text, the first time you read it, or as a reminder. Then, in future cases, you know what to do. Let's do no harm. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 Timur changed: What|Removed |Added Ever confirmed|0 |1 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW --- Comment #9 from Timur --- I'll take that as confirmation. Still not clear what is a solution, there should be something, at least to say that Cell Protection applies when Ptotect Sheet is enabled. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 --- Comment #8 from Heiko Tietze --- Static text to explain the UI/interaction is bad per se. We could just remove "Select 'Protect Sheet' from..." to make the tip compliant with all UI variants. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Bug 159748] UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159748 Timur changed: What|Removed |Added CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org, ||ti...@libreoffice.org --- Comment #7 from Timur --- There is no need to repeat the same in many comments. I add UX mail. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
