[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Dieter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||9970

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||7055

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #15 from Justin L  ---
(In reply to Evert Heylen from comment #14)
> Is there a way to optimize column widths programmatically/headless too?
I imagine so, but you will still need to figure out how to programmatically
select as well as figure out how to make a UNO call to these functions:
.uno:SetMinimalRowHeight
.uno:SetOptimalRowHeight
.uno:DistributeRows

.uno:SetMinimalColumnWidth
.uno:SetOptimalColumnWidth
.uno:DistributeColumns

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #14 from Evert Heylen  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #13)
> Much of the request for 'optimize' widget controls in the UI is available
> now with rework for bug 64242. A selection is still required, and we still
> don't implement the ODF 'style:use-optimal-column-width'-- and that would
> require new dev implementation to make that automatic for the listed see
> alsos.
> 
> Otherwise, all six row/column/table controls are available as UNO actions
> and can be added to Toolbar, Menu, Context-menu, and Keyboard shortcuts.
> 
> This is not completely resolved, but any question of the UI customization to
> manipulate table layout is pretty well available from 6.2 onward.

I generate documents programmatically, and use LibreOffice (headless) to turn
them into PDFs. Is there a way to optimize column widths
programmatically/headless too? The `use-optimal-column-width` property would be
awesome but I understand it is not supported yet. I tried writing a macro but
could only get it to work while selecting something (i.e. impossible to use
headless).

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64
   ||242

--- Comment #13 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Much of the request for 'optimize' widget controls in the UI is available now
with rework for bug 64242. A selection is still required, and we still don't
implement the ODF 'style:use-optimal-column-width'-- and that would require new
dev implementation to make that automatic for the listed see alsos.

Otherwise, all six row/column/table controls are available as UNO actions and
can be added to Toolbar, Menu, Context-menu, and Keyboard shortcuts.

This is not completely resolved, but any question of the UI customization to
manipulate table layout is pretty well available from 6.2 onward.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Louis Meyrat  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12
   ||8290

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #12 from Christian Lehmann  ---
In view of csongor's scenarios, the demand may now be specified:
1) Setting optimal column width for the entire table should be more directly
accessible.
2) Once checked (maybe in a new checkbox "Keep column width optimal"), optimal
column width should be conserved across future editing of the table content
unless the user manually resizes the table or any column. This latter operation
automatically unchecks the box.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Dieter Praas  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12
   ||5736

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Thomas Lendo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 OS|Linux (All) |All

--- Comment #11 from Thomas Lendo  ---
(In reply to csongor from comment #10)
> Cut a long story short, I think the user may need two things:
> - adjust the column width to be optimal according to their current content
> - permanently keep the column withs optimal
> 
> Now LO has the first functionality and doesn't have the second one. I think
> we should keep the existing menu item and we should introduce a new checkbox
> in the table propertise called "Keep column widths optimal".
Is this the essence of this bug? I would support this as I never understood why
the now available checkbox isn't permanent. That is different to the behavior
of all other checkboxes.

Heiko's suggestion or demand in comment 3 for a min. and max. width would be a
nice enhancement but I don't know if this is possible without cluttering the
UI.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||4633

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

cson...@halmai.hu changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||cson...@halmai.hu

--- Comment #10 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
Created attachment 137932
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=137932=edit
use case showing when automatic readjustment of column withs would destroy the
precisely adjusted layout

I add an attachment now to illustrate what kind of use case I was referring to. 

Let's say a teacher, who creates work sheets for their student and uses many
images for illustrations, they can adjust the images manually, like the
attachment shows. They create the document at 11pm in the evening, print them
for the next morning and probably never use the same document again. 

For them, this manual positioning is the most straightforward way (please
correct me if there is a better one). If a small change like "R" => "r" in this
example, would adjust the columns slightly and would destroy the precise
alignment between the umbrealla and the letter J then quite likely they would
realise it only after printing or maybe the next day. This would cause
frustration for them.

As there is no better way to define relative positions in a nicer way, they
don't have other choice than reviewing the whole document continuously.


I'm not saying LO should never reposition anything. I just showed an example
where this can be different what the user wants.

Cut a long story short, I think the user may need two things:
- adjust the column width to be optimal according to their current content
- permanently keep the column withs optimal

Now LO has the first functionality and doesn't have the second one. I think we
should keep the existing menu item and we should introduce a new checkbox in
the table propertise called "Keep column widths optimal".

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #9 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
Reply(In reply to Christian Lehmann from comment #8)

> 2) Optimal column width is a permanent property of a table until the user
> resets it. It remains in vigor after editing the cells. Again, I cannot
> imagine a scenario where I would want optimal column width for the present
> content of my table, but not for a changed table content.

I can. :) 

Example: the user fills the cells with some content and then changes the column
widths to be optimal (whatever it means). Later on, they may change the content
slightly, like fixing some typos or making some other minor changes. It can
happen that the user still wants to keep the existing postion of each column,
for example, because they placed some wrap-through images or frames here and
there. 

I admit, in many cases applying such images and frames is not necessary or can
be avoided but there are some other cases when they provide the
quickest/simplest solution. In those cases the user may want to preserve the
overall layout of the page, including the table cell positions.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #8 from Christian Lehmann  ---
To Csongor:
It does not seem excluded that something like my suggestion for refurbish the
entire table management will be adopted in a future version of LO. Then that
would include a simple solution for selecting portions of a table and applying
anything to them. And sure enough, these latter actions should be accessible by
right-click menus.

As long as this presupposition is not fulfilled, any interim solution which
requires less key hitting or button clicking is fine.

However, I would insist on two things:

1) If one wants optimal column width, then the default is to want it for an
entire table. I cannot even imagine a sensible scenario where I would require
it for only a subset. Suppose that applying optimal column width to the entire
table produces a result that does not appeal to me. Then it suffices to drag
the disturbing vertical borders to the side, which I would have to do, anyway.
And in particular, applying optimal column width only to one cell should not
even be offered, as this would imply table distortions à la MS Word.

2) Optimal column width is a permanent property of a table until the user
resets it. It remains in vigor after editing the cells. Again, I cannot imagine
a scenario where I would want optimal column width for the present content of
my table, but not for a changed table content.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #7 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to Christian Lehmann from comment #0)

I prefer using right-click menu and hot keys, much rather than the toolbar or
the upper menu. For me, it means that I use Right click -> Size -> Optimal
Column Width to resize the columns. 

The other part is missing, indeed. I would like to have a Select menu item in
the right click menu with the following items:
- Cell
- Row
- Column
- Table

In the LO I can access now (5.3.0.3 on a Mac) there are no hot keys but if they
were then the whole operation would be just 
- Right Click -> E -> T (for selecting the table) (S is used by Select
therefore E could be used)
- Right Click -> S -> O (for optimizing the column width)

Besides this, it would be even better if the multiple clicks would work more
extensively, in the following manner. 

within a cell:
- click: poition the cursor (it works)
- double click: select the word (it works)
- triple clikck: select the cell (this is missing now)

on the left margin:
- click: select the row (it works)
- double click: select whole table (this is missing now)

I admit, this is not a complete solution for your problem but it seems to be
much easier to implement. By contrast, your proposal requires to change the ODF
format as well, I think, because you want to save the "always apply optimal
column width" table setting as well.

Do you think such a semi-solution would be enough?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||3960

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||113088


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113088
[Bug 113088] [META] Writer table properties dialog bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #6 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Christian Lehmann from comment #5)
> In the versions of LO Writer available to me, I cannot "adjust the 
> column width to the content similarly to double-click...

Of course, that was the analogy from more known spreadsheet tools used to what
I think users expect.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #5 from Christian Lehmann  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> You can adjust the column width to the content similarly to double-click
> between header cells in a spreadsheet. This function is applied directly so
> I'd say the user doesn't expect an auto-size behavior subsequently.
> 
> The selection is needed to size only a part of the table (if nothing has
> been selected the column with the focus is taken).
> 
> To me it's a perfect WFM.

Sorry I don't understand this. In the versions of LO Writer available to me, I
cannot "adjust the column width to the content similarly to double-click
> between header cells in a spreadsheet". Instead, I have to do all the steps I 
> enumerated in my first post.

Again, the selection is only needed if the user does actually want to optimize
only a subset of the columns. In my production of hundreds of tables in the
last decades, this has never happened to me. Anyway, if application of the
function to the entire table is the default case, then it should not require
selecting anything.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #4 from Regina Henschel  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> How is this function expected to work regarding constraints. I mean col A
> and B are defined as style:use-optimal-column-width so one of the two has to
> give room when both grow. What happens when I enter a lot of text, or have
> just one character? Without a (adjustable) minimum and maximum the feature
> makes not much sense.

I don't know. The spec has no rule for it. The text of section 20.383 is:
The style:use-optimal-column-width attribute specifies that a column width
should be recalculated automatically if content in the column changes.
The defined values for the style:use-optimal-column-width attribute are:
• false: column width should not be recalculated automatically if content
in the column changes.
• true: column width should be recalculated automatically if content in the
column changes.

The current behavior in UI in LibreOffice is to adjust the total width of the
table; and in case the total width would have to be enlarged but that is not
possible, the command is ignored.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

--- Comment #3 from Heiko Tietze  ---
How is this function expected to work regarding constraints. I mean col A and B
are defined as style:use-optimal-column-width so one of the two has to give
room when both grow. What happens when I enter a lot of text, or have just one
character? Without a (adjustable) minimum and maximum the feature makes not
much sense.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Regina Henschel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rb.hensc...@t-online.de

--- Comment #2 from Regina Henschel  ---
It is a missing feature. The spec has the attribute "20.383
style:use-optimal-column-width" for to mark a column to automatically adapt
width, if a content changes.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #1 from Heiko Tietze  ---
You can adjust the column width to the content similarly to double-click
between header cells in a spreadsheet. This function is applied directly so I'd
say the user doesn't expect an auto-size behavior subsequently.

The selection is needed to size only a part of the table (if nothing has been
selected the column with the focus is taken).

To me it's a perfect WFM.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 113604] Optimal column width of table in Writer is cumbersome and not persistent

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113604

Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org

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