[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #24 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Discussed this topic in the design meeting. Resolving as WONTFIX because

   + minimizing the gutter makes the view not like a page anymore,
 would result in issues with the rulers, and requires some effort 
 to implement
   + no further input since 2017

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #23 from Carlos de los Rios  ---
>>Thanks, but LibreOffice does have its vertical ruler. 

[...]

OK!!.. Done!, Great!

   Thanks about!!!

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||107923


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107923
[Bug 107923] [META] Zoom issues
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #22 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Carlos de los Rios from comment #21)
> ...
> If I had to propose any kind of improvement, maybe I would note when you use
> Open Office and are inserting an image, you have a superior-ruler and also a
> lateral-left ruler which helps to adjust the size of figures. I don't know
> if LibreOffice Writer has the left ruler, but if it had would be useful to
> have it set it up as default or could do it easily, because when a document
> has more graphs than text on a determined page is important to control their
> dimensions exactly.

Thanks, but LibreOffice does have its vertical ruler. 

Both rulers were set off by default [1] and there is a unfulfilled request for
AOO to do the same [2], for LibreOffice the horizontal ruler was re-enabled by
default for bug 87923 [3].  

Both rulers can be adjusted from main menu View -> Rulers, or set in profile
from Tools -> Options -> LibreOffice Writer -> View. Also Vertical ruler can be
set left edge (default) or positioned on right edge, its measurement units can
be adjusted. And once set in profile settings will be remembered.

Were a visual adjustment of gutters and 3d edge made as requested here,
placement of the rulers (horizontal and vertical) would need to be considered
as well (i.e. floating vs. affixed to edge when active, or other handling of
the GUI element).

=-ref-=
[1]
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6170c7556285b0594994d23bff36328206e7d39a
[2] https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=99284
[3]
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=e85489e08e6eca752f3c94c0fb26205ed2d3d880

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

Carlos de los Rios  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||carlos_d...@outlook.com

--- Comment #21 from Carlos de los Rios  ---
Comment on attachment 111503
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=111503
Writer margin

Please, accept my best regards for this excelent work which incorporates a so
powerful nucleus into a well developed interface making it agile, fast and easy
to use. 
If I had to propose any kind of improvement, maybe I would note when you use
Open Office and are inserting an image, you have a superior-ruler and also a
lateral-left ruler which helps to adjust the size of figures. I don't know if
LibreOffice Writer has the left ruler, but if it had would be useful to have it
set it up as default or could do it easily, because when a document has more
graphs than text on a determined page is important to control their dimensions
exactly.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Component|LibreOffice |Writer

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #19 from wil111ber-c...@yahoo.es ---
Well, I accept being added to Bug 87842, and I remark the petition of Orion (is
the same question, partially). We only want a thing that exists in Word
(Windows), i. e.: view all the editable zone in fullscreen mode. The rest is
unuseful, and the number of users that appreciate this function... do you know
exactly? This function don't eliminate others possibilities, is one more, very
reasonable.
I remember my other question: bar tools accesable in fullscreen with the mouse
on top of window (i. e.). It's very, very useful for... I don't know the exact
number of users.
Do you think really that the shadow (3D effect) is much more useful than the
option that Orion and me appreciate?
BR
   Will

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at "page width", option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||wil111ber-c...@yahoo.es

--- Comment #18 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 96130 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at page width, option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #12 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Hi Orion,

My apologize about recommending optimal view, as i seemed to have missed your
comment 3.

Yes i think having a view that a user can select which disables the gutters and
the 3d page edge effect would be a useful feature as i was going to suggest it
for touch screen users.

I was able to fake this view by going into Tools  Options  Appearance, and
setting Application Background to white and unchecking Shadows. Is this a
sufficient enough fix the the problem you are posing or are you looking for
something exactly like iWork Pages.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at page width, option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #17 from or...@orionkidder.org ---
Hi, Stuart. 

Yes, *I* have the problem. That's why I'm the one reporting it, right? 

Also, there are actually only three commenters in this thread (you, me, and
Jay), so we're not really a representative sample one way or the other, as much
as I wish I could claim to represent 66% of users. 

I *entirely* agree that it's a very low-priority tweak. I honestly thought I
was doing my part, as someone who doesn't code, by making the suggestion. And
yeah, I don't know how to code, so that's not something I can help with.
Believe me, I'd love to be able to fix it myself and just offer a solution. 

What's frustrating is to just be told that's a bad idea without any real
explanation as to why. Just saying other word processors do X (or shouldn't
have done X) doesn't address the problem. If it's simply so low on the list of
priorities that it's not worth talking about, I can accept that, but, all due
respect, you didn't say that. 

The status was resolved and wontfix earlier today. It's been changed since
then. 

We cool now?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at page width, option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #15 from V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu ---
(In reply to orion from comment #13)
... it doesn't quite solve the problem I have, which is that the gutter 
takes up space for no good reason

I have yes, exactly! This is your issue, the rest of us don't have an issue
with the UI as currently implemented. Comfortable saying that majority prefers
the current gutter and 3D page edge.

I am not saying suggeestion has no merit as an enhancement, but in truth it is
little more than a visual tweak, especially when there are substantive issues
of UI and UX to be tackled by our dev community. So I will take the
opportunity, to be just a tad dismissive.

 So I don't know why someone keeps flipping this bug to solved. 

Huh? The status is NEW and in ux-advise.  Please review the issue history in
the modified label above right.

It feels like an aesthetic preference rather than a thing to be fixed,
and in that case, why not just send a note up the chain to, someday, 
provide a no gutters option?

Umm, it is up the chain and set NEW.  And accordingly here is a reality
check... unless closed again by the Design and UX-Advise team as WONTFIX, it
will languish as one of hundreds of enhancements to UI of equal or greater
merit.

Of course, you are welcome to code, or fund, an additional zoom mode or a
expert configuration toggle for the page edge.  Then go ahead and submit it for
review--it might even be a welcome improvement for someone else.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at page width, option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #14 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
I believe that in order to fix what you are asking, the behaviour of the
horizontal scrollbar needs to be adjusted so that it can zoom into that the
exact page width size and this zoom level would need to be defined as something
like 'page width optimal'.

The bug has only been flipped to solved once and that was by me. :D

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at page width, option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

--- Comment #16 from V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu ---
@Jay,
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #14)
 I believe that in order to fix what you are asking, the behaviour of the
 horizontal scrollbar needs to be adjusted so that it can zoom into that the
 exact page width size and this zoom level would need to be defined as
 something like 'page width optimal'.

No, the correct way to implement this enhancement--there is nothing to
fix--would be to change the UI and remove the 3D border and the additional
padding being added to the drawing frame for the document page at any zoom
level. No need to touch the scroll bar behavior.

That would most likely be done with a Expert Configuration toggle as this is
such a specialized request. But if really popular could be done with from the
Tools - Option - View, or module specific in its View panel.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87842] Writer zoom at page width, option to eliminate 3d page edge and gutter

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87842

V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|NEW
Summary|Writer zoom at page width |Writer zoom at page
   |view without grey space |width, option to eliminate
   ||3d page edge and gutter

--- Comment #11 from V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu ---
@orion,
(In reply to orion from comment #9)
 Thus, my conclusion remains: it would be *really* easy to just have an
 option that doesn't include the gutter. 
 

You are of course welcome to dig into the code and prove so, patches always
welcome. ;-)

 I have yet to see an actual argument for the *function and utility* of the
 gutter. What does it do? What information does it provide that justifies its
 existence? I don't think there is any. I think you're all just really used
 to it being there.

Presence of the gutter--the gap on all four edges between documents page edge
and the GUI window frame (or the ruler/scrollbar widgets)--more specifically
defines the edge of the page as its lay out specifies.  As noted, the width of
the gutter scales with the zoom level, and could likely be reduced--however,
representation of the page edge uses a 3d shadowing that would be eliminated,
or would not look correct with too great a reduction of the gutter. It exists
because most users prefer to have a clear page edge delineation.

So what you are asking, in reality is to replace the existing page edge with a
flat 1px border in a color appropriate to the UI, and to reduce or eliminate
the gutter. The page width zoom level would redraw to that value to fit
within window frame - scrollbar/ruler widgets.

It should be clear that it would be very unsightly should the page edges simply
meet the window frame, or scrollbar(s), or ruler widget(s). A subdued 1px
border is the minimum.

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