[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |
   |.freedesktop.org|

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #18 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #16)
> I will work on this.

Please consider using the cell fill style > bitmap property (comment 5). In
particular to replace 'Format Cells > Background' by the new all-in-one area
fill frame including gradient, hatching etc. but primarily because access to
bitmap alignment could be made consistent.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #17 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Very very happy this is happening. Thanks you for picking it up. Please let me
know if you need any feedback. When inserting and scaling images please make
sure they use cubic interpolation and get scaled proportionally. Please make
sure this works well with a spreadsheet that has > 300 1080p images in a system
with 4 gb of ram (i guess that means unloading ones that are not visible).
Being able to click to see a full size image would be great. Or hover. Or both.
This could be a formatting option.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
 CC||s.mehrbr...@gmail.com
   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |s.mehrbr...@gmail.com
   |desktop.org |

--- Comment #16 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB)  ---
I will work on this.
The first thing is to make images move with the cell when the cell moves (e.g.
when sorting).

As I understand this is the most annoying thing.

We can then think if we anchor images to cells by default. Currently they are
anchored to the page by default.

Also an option for the image to automatically resize with the cell surely would
be nice.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86
   ||739

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|medium  |lowest

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Volga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||105584


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105584
[Bug 105584] [META] Calc image bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||0394

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval
  Component|ux-advise   |Calc
 Blocks||94722


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94722
[Bug 94722] [META] Object fill bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

steve -_-  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #15 from steve -_-  ---
Going ahead and setting this to NEW.

If anybody disagrees, that this is a valid enhancement request, feel free to
set this to invalid / wontfix.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tietze.he...@gmail.com

--- Comment #14 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to cheater00 from comment #13)
> Heiko, Tomaz, and Regina, have you got any other questions? Is there
> anything that I could clarify? Thanks

Lengthy posting, didn't read every argument ;-)

In Draw/Impress and maybe as well Writer you can add a table that has all
flavors of area fill including bitmaps. Obviously users expect that Calc has
the same options, there was the same request on G+ today.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #13 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Heiko, Tomaz, and Regina, have you got any other questions? Is there anything
that I could clarify? Thanks

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #12 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Here's a list of posts by people who would like to have images in cells in a
spreadsheet, or already work with the broken feature available now, first for
LibreOffice, then for OpenOffice, then for various other products. I stopped
after the 10th page of Google results.

I assume every time people want to insert an image into a spreadsheet it's
because they want to see something that's in the image. Surely there are some
weird people who just want images for styling, but that's their problem.
There's no other legitimate reason to display images in cells or let alone
comments to cells.

Either way there's enough talk about having images in spreadsheets to show that
I'm not alone in my wish for this feature. I haven't been able to find similar
requests that were open on the Libre Office bug tracker that's why I submitted
this feature request in the first place. It was not perfectly correct of me to
say "this has been requested many times" but I do remember seeing things like
that in the bug tracker several months ago and a couple years ago when I looked
into this issue periodically. However, I cannot find any right now.


https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/27904/feature-request-insert-images-into-calc-cells/
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/6974
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/9068
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/4200
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/12705
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/5033
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/5298
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/7812
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/12729
http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/11084


https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=34544
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=62586
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=64941
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=67552
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44=64249
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=29097=0
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=9341
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7=16773
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=34187
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=18098
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20=67822
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5=37144=0
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=36641
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25=63865
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7=42794
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5=31394=0
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=81910
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20=69019
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=82432
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=19984=0
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=70489
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7=24677
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20=56904
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9=16282
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49=77106
http://superuser.com/questions/131467/inserting-an-image-into-a-openoffice-org-calc-cell
http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/office_guides/openoffice_3_calc_user_guide/openoffice_calc_Adding_graphics_Inserting_an_image_from_a_file.html
https://www.shorttutorials.com/openoffice-spreadsheet/insert-image.html
http://openoffice.2283327.n4.nabble.com/OpenOffice-3-2-Calc-adding-bitmap-image-to-a-cell-td2780730.html
http://ccm.net/faq/41723-openoffice-how-to-insert-images-in-comments
http://www.softwaretalk.info/inserting-an-image-into-a-openofficeorg-calc-cell.htm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCNfRC3-K-E
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/docs/how-do-i/ON8hZBsfcL0
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/docs/53pHveeJ3Zs
https://www.lynda.com/Sheets-tutorials/Inserting-images-spreadsheets/163414/187766-4.html
https://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/Inserting_an_Image_Behind_Text
http://www.ozgrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135800

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #11 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Hi guys,
the two main uses of Calc that I have are:

1. shopping for stuff
2. keeping track of stuff

Scenario 1. Here's an example from yesterday. I am looking to buy a piece of
exercise equipment called a "cable cross". This means I need to go and visit
all the sources I can find on the internet, find out whether the item will fit
purpose, find out the price, shipping cost, etc, convert that to my currency,
and sort based on that. I need the following columns:

- source (business I would buy it from)
- name and type
- price (in source currency)
- shipping & handling cost
- availability
- lead time
- shipping time
- multiple columns describing the availability of features (not all cable
crossovers are the same)
- included extra equipment (say, grips or a bench)
- the value of the extra equipment
- total cost minus added value in my currency

each item I find will have multiple sources. I will go through maybe 40
sources, each of which will have maybe 5-10 possible items in various
configurations.
Often they will sell the same item at a different cost. Quite often those items
will be the same but rebranded, with a different model number. Textual
representation (make + model number) will not reveal this when reviewing the
data; only visual comparison will. This can save a lot of money when shopping.
An image can also tell me which of the various sub-options I am looking at; say
you have multiple rows for what is actually the same item but with various
accessories thrown in.

When shopping and making comparisons of physical items it is important to be
able to immediately see what you are working with because you can remember what
it is you're working with much quicker when you see an image, than when you see
gibberish model numbers like WX-STA-12-0. One look at an image tells you what
you would otherwise only find out if you scanned the whole row because that's
how human memory works. Seeing things steamlines work. Hence my comment that
spreadsheets are for humans and are more than just a programming language.

Now let's say I'm shopping for those items and during the time I'm creating the
spreadsheet for comparison I find out that there's a feature that makes a lot
of difference in value. For example if you google for "cable cross" you will
see that they have those two wheels on the side, and some of them can be moved
up and down, whereas others are fixed. This adds a lot of value. Without
images, I'll have to google each item separately, and look at the image, and
then enter into a column whether the feature is available. If I see images vice
versa the data I'm inputting, this becomes a blast. If I don't, this obviously
becomes arduous. It is my experience when shopping for more expensive items I
have to do this several times with all items.

Scenario 2. Keep track of things I have. Here's a very simple example. Take a
look at this, it's a box of guitar picks.

http://i.imgur.com/HKxXNKk.jpg

Tell me how to keep track of them without photos. In such a way that I can
easily find them in a box full of them. Do I put a barcode on each? Do I write
descriptions like "small black rounded pick"? That's never going to be
meaningful. There's going to be a dozen different small black rounded picks.
Coming up with visual descriptions is a fool's errand.

I would like to keep track of prices over time and when I need to buy more I
would also like to keep track of where I bought them in the first place.





Regarding Base. It does hold image data. However it does not display it in the
spreadsheet view. It just says "". That would need to be improved upon
and images displayed.

Then there's a lot of flexibility missing. If I come up with a new way to
evaluate the efficacy of a certain purchase, that's a formula based on other
data. In Calc I just enter the formula in a cell and drag down. In Base, I
would have to: 1. possibly extend an existing table 2. create a new view 3.
create a new form. And then it turns out that for some of the rows, the formula
doesn't work, and you have to input a number by hand. At which point you've hit
the ceiling.

Or let's say you want to pick out some things and mark them bold or give them a
yellow background. You can't in base.

There's no window freezing, so very large spreadsheets can't really be worked
on. An example I work on often has 36 rows and goes up to column BF.

--

Accessibility is another reason. All in all I would say images carry a lot of
data for humans. Myself, I am the kind of person that goes to great lengths to
associate images of people with their names in the phone contact book. If I see
a list of bare numbers or even names in my call log I get lost, with images it
works well. So I guess that means I've got some sort of "dys" that makes me
work better with images than text. I imagine a lot of other people are 

[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

Regina Henschel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rb.hensc...@t-online.de

--- Comment #10 from Regina Henschel  ---
There is no limitation in ODF. In ODF a table has nearly the same properties no
matter whether the table is part of a text document or a spreadsheet. Only the
attributes, which describe the anchor, are different.

When you anchor an image to a cell, it becomes part of the cell in file format.
In a spreadsheet the anchor is described by the attributes
table:end-cell-address, table:end-x and table:end-y.

The ODF has all what is needed to get an image into a cell and stick it to the
cell. But there are problems in the current implementation, especially when the
row or column is resized, or row or columns inserted, removed, hidden or
sorted. You will find a lot of reports with this topic in Bugzilla. It seems,
that clean-up the reports is needed.

Because of the problems in the current implementation, you should discuss
alternatives for the purpose of a catalog on a forum.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #8 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to cheater00 from comment #6)
> OTOH who in LibreOffice is responsible for the strategy of
> strictly not implementing things not in ODF?

LibO is a decentral open source project. Meaning if you find a programmer who
codes your ideas and if the devs accept it your stuff gone be active. Learn
more at https://www.libreoffice.org/community/get-involved/. And of course you
can hire one of the big companies that provide professional support
(https://www.collabora.com/, https://www.cib.de/en/home.html) or a freelancer. 

In respect to UX your are on the right place. The design and UX group
(https://www.libreoffice.org/community/design/) has weekly meetings where
proposals like yours are discussed - if the ticket is in a stage that makes it
necessary. This one isn't yet, IMHO.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #6 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Heiko,
From what I understood from Stuart's comments background images as style
information are in the standard. There is a rather broken implementation in
Calc. What is missing for my use is for the images to be resized to cell size
keeping aspect ratio, and a way to quickly see a larger version.

Heiko I will look if it's possible to contact anyone at the ODF org, thanks for
the link. OTOH who in LibreOffice is responsible for the strategy of strictly
not implementing things not in ODF? I would like to present my case as well and
learn the person or people's views.

I will write about Base later as right now I'm on the run.

Thanks

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #5 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to cheater00 from comment #4)
> Who do I speak to in order to change this strategy?

You may check this page http://www.opendocumentformat.org/. But why don't you
take a look at the LibO Base solution? ODF might enhance the specs to deal with
cell images but never deal with all the other requirements. 

Another idea is to apply not only a color to the cell background but bitmaps
like for areas. Is that covered by the ODF spec, Stuart?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #4 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Hi Stuart,
thank you for explaining the direction of the project.

I don't necessarily care about manipulation of image data, just about simple
display of a small image in the cell, and a larger version for inspection. As
you stated yourself, the functionality to display an image inside a cell is
already present. In my opinion it is somewhat broken or underfeatured, that is
all. WRT displaying a larger version of the image, that would have to be
implemented.

I do believe I have a legitimate use case here. I understand currently you are
bound by the ODF format. Who do I speak to in order to change this strategy?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #3 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to cheater00 from comment #2)
> "Insert image" is not sufficient. I'll quote the original post below:
> > when you resize or sort data the images don't follow the data, since an 
> > image
> > anchored to B3 will always be anchored to B3, even if the data moved down to
> > B12. Second of all, I can't easily resize the image to look at it in detail.
> 
> Or in other words this does not implement list points 2-10 from the original
> post.
> 

Sorry, one can equally question if your proposed usage of Calc is how a
spreadsheet is intended to function?

All else aside, LibreOffice Calc and its spreadsheet documents are intended to
be compliant with current ODF standards, in particular ODF 1.2 for Spreadsheet
Documents with rich data structures and methods, including increased use of the
OpenCL API, for supporting the manipulation of numerical cell content and
formulas.

That compliance sets our scope of function and is the only "direction" and core
functionality that Calc must support--in truth the project has no need for Calc
to do anything more than behave as a spreadsheet document editor and user
environment.

Standards allow OLE content holding other ODF to be embedded into a cell
(charts, graphs, even Draw images), as well as image/graphics can be
embedded/linked to a cell. But the table structure of the spreadsheet is
primarily to hold textual and numerical data for manipulation based on the
content of cells.

All else: Cells, Rows, Columns and Pages can be formatted by style, or direct
formatting, for display of text or numerical content and formula results. 
Add to that styling for printing and report generation rounds out the
functional requirements for LibreOffice Calc. Handling of images and OLE
objects is limited to the styling that can be applied to their frame
container--that is the scope we are obliged to support. And that alone is the
scope of development and "direction" of Calc.

In other words, Calc is *not* an image/graphic display environment and will
likely never be made one in the sense you propose.

Not saying it could not be done, but it would be out of scope for what a
Spreadsheet document is intended to be from the projects perspective.

Again, IMHO believe that LibreOffice Base and the OpenDocument Database Front
End Document Format (ODB), of the OASIS ODF 1.2 standard, is the only correct
way of populating styled Table reports holding and manipulating images and
their metadata. Manipulation of that image data does not belong in a Calc
spreadsheet.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

--- Comment #2 from cheate...@gmail.com ---
Hi Stuart, thanks for your comment. Thank you for correcting the type to
"enhancement".

I disagree that an SQL database is somehow a replacement for LibreOffice. There
is obviously no way to use a database the same way you would use a desktop
application, a lot of features are missing, let alone ones specific to Calc. If
you say "but you could build a GUI", to this I can say, why implement any
features, if everything could be built in assembler? An SQL database isn't even
far fetched.

I see your point with regards to file formats. This does however fall under
"stuff is not implemented so let's not implement stuff". If you have a
prerogative to absolutely never implement features unless they are portable via
ODF, then I question that prerogative and would like to challenge it with
whomever is responsible for that.

"Insert image" is not sufficient. I'll quote the original post below:
> when you resize or sort data the images don't follow the data, since an image
> anchored to B3 will always be anchored to B3, even if the data moved down to
> B12. Second of all, I can't easily resize the image to look at it in detail.

Or in other words this does not implement list points 2-10 from the original
post.

Is this a legitimate core requirement? You have not supported your argument
other than say "our data format is not flexible" and "here are a few things you
could try" (which don't work). I believe it remains to be shown if it's not. My
argument is that it is, because I need it when I use Calc, and the same feature
has been requested by a multitude of people over time. It's not even a
completely new feature. It's just fixing the "insert image" feature to make it
actually usable beyond what it is now (it is useless). It's there, so someone
already committed to it being in Calc, what remains is for the feature to
become complete.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 98931] Insert images into cells in Calc

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98931

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
  Component|Calc|ux-advise
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

--- Comment #1 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to cheater00 from comment #0)
> I would like to be able to view images in Calc which are located inside
> cells. As simple as that.

Well, lets see. For starters this would be an Enhancement. Not a bug in any
sense.

Cells can in fact hold images, a simple Insert. But default is to anchor to
sheet (page) --so need to change to anchor to cell for any formatting or
styling of the frame holding the image. Then the image does stay with the cell
with any reformatting or sort.

The frame takes a table:end-cell-address (when anchored to cell), and the image
is either held as binary or as a link.

What is admittedly missing is any handling of a cell's ()
 and  content as anything more than a rendered image.

What you fail to understand is that this is driven not by LibreOffice
requirements, but instead by requirements in the ODF 1.2 standard as to
function of an OpenDocument Spreadsheet Document the container for Calc
documents we create. 

There are several ways the Exif and other meta details of a source image could
be incorporated into cell attributes--but none are specified in ODF 1.2. There
is no established  format meaning anything done for LibreOffice
would not transition to other ODF processors.  Even if we extend the .ODS
container for our use, we'd be making an interoperability issue.

Also, most of your use case is already more correctly handled in a database
with SQL column to hold BLOB and meta data of images.

So is this even really a legitimate core requirement? I'd have to say no.

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