Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi all! I created a patch with some of the suggested changes to see how they look: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/5901/ The get more templates button was moved to the template manager, it has a temporary icon. On 6 September 2013 16:18, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Emir Yâsin SARI bitig...@me.com wrote: 6 Eyl 2013 tarihinde 17:47 saatinde, Tor Lillqvist şunları yazdı: IMHO, it'd be great if LibreOffice could present each of its modules as completely separate applications, Hmm, that would mean LOTS of changes to our packaging and distribution on OS X (something for which there isn't exactly an abundance of engineering resources), where there now is just one app bundle, LibreOffice.app. You mean there would be separate LibreOfficeWriter.app, LibreOfficeCalc.app, etc? Where would their shared code be? (Duplicated in each app? Sure, that would work, but the usual suspects would whine think of the people who have to pay $$ per megabyte of download) How would installing such a thing work, if on a .dmg, dragging each .app separately to /Applications? Etc... I think current approach is better, it also gives a seamless interaction between components, like editing Calc sheets in Writer which MS Office on Mac cannot do, but what LibreOffice needs is separate component links, like the ability to put Calc or Writer separately on Dock, eliminating extra clicks, though I am not sure if it is possible or not. In any case it would require some separation of components. Exactly. I'd like the Mac version to present modules in exactly the same way they are presented on Linux and Windows. (To the user, they seem like separate applications.) How that would be best done, though, I have no clue. I know the Office:Mac installer automatically creates all the shortcuts to the different applications, but I'm betting that that kind of installer would require the changes you mentioned. And I have no clue how to separate things like Exposé or the application menu. That said, what I said earlier was targeted at Linux/Windows, where the separation exists already, it just isn't complete. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi Emir, On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Emir Yâsin SARI bitig...@me.com wrote: Hello, I'd like to point out some ideas of mine for the new start center as well, 1. Tabs labeled All, Documents, Spreadsheets etc. would look better if they are located right under the window bar, currently they look like they've been pressed down by the Open/Templates buttons and LibreOffice logo area. +1 2. Changing the application background colour from settings change the SC background as well as usual, and LibreOffice logo looks bad under certain colours, not readable at all. Personally I am not sure if we ever need a LO logo for the Start Center, it just takes up space. +1 to getting rid of the logo 3. Info, Get Templates, Get Extensions buttons should be located on the lower corner, not upper. Again waste of space. Not sure if these are relevant here as well. Get Templates would be better off in the Template manager, Get Extensions in the Extension manager, and it's enough to have Info, which just links to the homepage, in the About dialog. 4. Open/Templates buttons are very very big, and they look very alienated on OS X. Have no idea about the other platforms. Ideally, these should be toolbar buttons, as in the proposal. [1] 5. New document buttons under the tabs are also very big, they do not look native, and they leave very valuable space wasted on the right side of the buttons. Same case for the small buttons under the All Recent tab. +1 6. Also mentioned here before, Recent Documents are would offer more file manager capabilities, basic functions like longer file names, ability to dragdrop, a search bar, and a system right click context menu! The long-term goal for the Start Center, at least how I envision it, is similar to that of mobile/web applications or Apple's Document Library [2]: have an application-specific file browser with a simple one-level folder hierarchy with the primary function of finding and opening a file, not managing it. Based on that, drag-and-drop, to me, makes only sense in terms of grouping documents into folders, in a similar way to the way folders work on the Android or iOS homescreen or in Apple's Document Library. Did you mean that or did you have something else in mind? A search bar makes sense as well. Instead of a right-click system menu, I'd prefer to reserve the right click for selection, as is the behavior of the new kind of Windows 8 apps and the new Gnome apps (Documents, Clocks, ...). By selecting something, the toolbar should change to present selection-relevant commands, which is the same as you'd expect from a right-click menu, with the advantage of being more discoverable and touch-accessible. Also, what exactly do you mean by Longer file names? Does the current implementation not allow long filenames? Or do you mean showing the whole file name no matter how long it is? 7. When a recent document is opened, window should maximise itself by default, at least there should be an option to maximise the window automatically, a normal user would probably maximise the window area after opening a document. This setting should be saved with the document. It should have nothing to do with the Start Center. 8. As a long term goal, it would be better to merge templates window into the start center. It'd be good if these two could share as much as possible, though I'm not 100% sure they should be merged. I have no idea about the technical aspects, though, so I don't have an educated opinion on this. [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center#Proposal_by_Mirek2 [2] http://ia.net/blog/mountain-lions-new-file-system/ ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 24/07/13 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : One major problem with document previews is that there are none for ODB files. When one works with ODT and ODB files regularly (as I do), this makes for one ugly startscreen, interspersed with ODT previews and Base app icons. Unfortunately, I do not know what could be done about this, other than perhaps providing a fake placeholder preview for the ODB documents, but I've no idea how that would work or what form it could take. The Base tab itself could be presented as a list rather than a grid. IMHO, it'd be great if LibreOffice could present each of its modules as completely separate applications, regardless of the fact that it's really just one. Launching a module would launch the module-specific section of the Start Center, only without tabs for the other modules. It would, in effect, be very much like mobile apps or Apple's Document Library [1]. The advantage of that would be being able to tweak the UI of each module based on the content it works with. [1] http://ia.net/blog/mountain-lions-new-file-system/ ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
IMHO, it'd be great if LibreOffice could present each of its modules as completely separate applications, Hmm, that would mean LOTS of changes to our packaging and distribution on OS X (something for which there isn't exactly an abundance of engineering resources), where there now is just one app bundle, LibreOffice.app. You mean there would be separate LibreOfficeWriter.app, LibreOfficeCalc.app, etc? Where would their shared code be? (Duplicated in each app? Sure, that would work, but the usual suspects would whine think of the people who have to pay $$ per megabyte of download) How would installing such a thing work, if on a .dmg, dragging each .app separately to /Applications? Etc... --tml ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
6 Eyl 2013 tarihinde 17:47 saatinde, Tor Lillqvist şunları yazdı: IMHO, it'd be great if LibreOffice could present each of its modules as completely separate applications, Hmm, that would mean LOTS of changes to our packaging and distribution on OS X (something for which there isn't exactly an abundance of engineering resources), where there now is just one app bundle, LibreOffice.app. You mean there would be separate LibreOfficeWriter.app, LibreOfficeCalc.app, etc? Where would their shared code be? (Duplicated in each app? Sure, that would work, but the usual suspects would whine think of the people who have to pay $$ per megabyte of download) How would installing such a thing work, if on a .dmg, dragging each .app separately to /Applications? Etc... I think current approach is better, it also gives a seamless interaction between components, like editing Calc sheets in Writer which MS Office on Mac cannot do, but what LibreOffice needs is separate component links, like the ability to put Calc or Writer separately on Dock, eliminating extra clicks, though I am not sure if it is possible or not. In any case it would require some separation of components. Emir ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Emir Yâsin SARI bitig...@me.com wrote: 6 Eyl 2013 tarihinde 17:47 saatinde, Tor Lillqvist şunları yazdı: IMHO, it'd be great if LibreOffice could present each of its modules as completely separate applications, Hmm, that would mean LOTS of changes to our packaging and distribution on OS X (something for which there isn't exactly an abundance of engineering resources), where there now is just one app bundle, LibreOffice.app. You mean there would be separate LibreOfficeWriter.app, LibreOfficeCalc.app, etc? Where would their shared code be? (Duplicated in each app? Sure, that would work, but the usual suspects would whine think of the people who have to pay $$ per megabyte of download) How would installing such a thing work, if on a .dmg, dragging each .app separately to /Applications? Etc... I think current approach is better, it also gives a seamless interaction between components, like editing Calc sheets in Writer which MS Office on Mac cannot do, but what LibreOffice needs is separate component links, like the ability to put Calc or Writer separately on Dock, eliminating extra clicks, though I am not sure if it is possible or not. In any case it would require some separation of components. Exactly. I'd like the Mac version to present modules in exactly the same way they are presented on Linux and Windows. (To the user, they seem like separate applications.) How that would be best done, though, I have no clue. I know the Office:Mac installer automatically creates all the shortcuts to the different applications, but I'm betting that that kind of installer would require the changes you mentioned. And I have no clue how to separate things like Exposé or the application menu. That said, what I said earlier was targeted at Linux/Windows, where the separation exists already, it just isn't complete. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hello, I'd like to point out some ideas of mine for the new start center as well, 1. Tabs labeled All, Documents, Spreadsheets etc. would look better if they are located right under the window bar, currently they look like they've been pressed down by the Open/Templates buttons and LibreOffice logo area. 2. Changing the application background colour from settings change the SC background as well as usual, and LibreOffice logo looks bad under certain colours, not readable at all. Personally I am not sure if we ever need a LO logo for the Start Center, it just takes up space. 3. Info, Get Templates, Get Extensions buttons should be located on the lower corner, not upper. Again waste of space. 4. Open/Templates buttons are very very big, and they look very alienated on OS X. Have no idea about the other platforms. 5. New document buttons under the tabs are also very big, they do not look native, and they leave very valuable space wasted on the right side of the buttons. Same case for the small buttons under the All Recent tab. 6. Also mentioned here before, Recent Documents are would offer more file manager capabilities, basic functions like longer file names, ability to dragdrop, a search bar, and a system right click context menu! 7. When a recent document is opened, window should maximise itself by default, at least there should be an option to maximise the window automatically, a normal user would probably maximise the window area after opening a document. 8. As a long term goal, it would be better to merge templates window into the start center. Best regards, Emir Yâsin SARI bitig...@me.com 18 Ağu 2013 tarihinde 14:16 saatinde, Mirek M. şunları yazdı: On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi, Le 14/08/2013 08:51, Mirek M. a écrit : On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org mailto:jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center I just tried the first implementation of the new startcenter in the master. It is interesting to view the recent documents but there is a problem in the actual implementation in which it is impossible to see the entire name of the file. Do you plan to offer different views of the list, like icons, detailed list and compact list? My opinion on the matter: It'd be good to keep the number of views simple. A detailed list makes sense, but I don't see much of a point in an icon list (thumbnails are much more informational, icons just show the file type and are completely useless when you're not on the All tab). I disagree, icons are useful even when you are not on the All tab to distinguish between ODF, MSO files or other document formats. AFAIK, we don't have separate icons for the various file formats right now. However, if easy separation between these formats was something we needed, we could simply add labels to our thumbnails instead. This would add clutter, though, so perhaps presenting this information as a file extension might be better. I think thumbnails are informational if you have the possibility to zoom temporary on a particular thumbnail to see a more detailed view. In other cases I prefer icons and filenames. You should use list view, then. :) I'm not in favor of a compact list either -- if you need a list, use the detailed list view, if you need to browse quickly, use the thumbnail view. I realize that the compact view is much more compact, but it doesn't seem worth the work and the UI overhead. I agree, it was just an example of the different possible views. In the mockup (here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center) the filenames follow the old ms-dos 8 digit rule; am I wrong if I assume that, today, nobody still uses that rule in the real life ? ;-) Sorry, I left out the handling of long names from the proposal. Given that Gnome Documents [1] uses the same layout, how about adopting their way -- limiting the filename to two rows, and if it doesn't fit, cutting it off about 8 characters from the end of the word, if I'm not mistaken. You can ask Jon McCann or Jakub Steiner about the specifics, if you'd like. Why only 2 rows? If the files systems allow to have long filenames, applications should not decide to nullify this functionality. I was basing the design on that of Gnome Documents, where the reasoning is to keep a nice layout going. iWork and Google Drive go even further and allow one line for filenames. Perhaps you're right, though -- maybe we should leave the file
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
4. Open/Templates buttons are very very big, and they look very alienated on OS X. Have no idea about the other platforms. Well, the whole Start Centre concept is alien to OS X and Windows if you ask me... That we use it on those platforms, too, is just because we don't have resources to DTRT. --tml ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Le 24/07/13 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : One major problem with document previews is that there are none for ODB files. When one works with ODT and ODB files regularly (as I do), this makes for one ugly startscreen, interspersed with ODT previews and Base app icons. Unfortunately, I do not know what could be done about this, other than perhaps providing a fake placeholder preview for the ODB documents, but I've no idea how that would work or what form it could take. Alex ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Le 26/08/13 09:42, Tor Lillqvist a écrit : Well, the whole Start Centre concept is alien to OS X and Windows if you ask me... That we use it on those platforms, too, is just because we don't have resources to DTRT. Yup. For example, when you launch the Pages application, you get the basic OSX Finder window in the default directory where documents are stored (i.e. Documents), and a New Document button to the bottom left of the window. Clicking on this then opens the Template dialog window, with a list of possible template categories in the left hand pane, and previews of these templates in the main window pane. Note that the templates are displayed as if they were on a lighttable, with a black background. TextEdit does the OSX Finder dialog first. MS Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2011 for Mac opens the Template dialog window immediately, without going through a Finder dialog first, using a same black background lighttable display. Online templates are available by a simple click on the corresponding menu entry in the left hand pane. The nearest I've found to the proposed new LO startscreen on OSX is Scribus 1.3.8 ;-) Alex ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi, On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi, Le 14/08/2013 08:51, Mirek M. a écrit : On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org mailto:jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center I just tried the first implementation of the new startcenter in the master. It is interesting to view the recent documents but there is a problem in the actual implementation in which it is impossible to see the entire name of the file. Do you plan to offer different views of the list, like icons, detailed list and compact list? My opinion on the matter: It'd be good to keep the number of views simple. A detailed list makes sense, but I don't see much of a point in an icon list (thumbnails are much more informational, icons just show the file type and are completely useless when you're not on the All tab). I disagree, icons are useful even when you are not on the All tab to distinguish between ODF, MSO files or other document formats. AFAIK, we don't have separate icons for the various file formats right now. However, if easy separation between these formats was something we needed, we could simply add labels to our thumbnails instead. This would add clutter, though, so perhaps presenting this information as a file extension might be better. I think thumbnails are informational if you have the possibility to zoom temporary on a particular thumbnail to see a more detailed view. In other cases I prefer icons and filenames. You should use list view, then. :) I'm not in favor of a compact list either -- if you need a list, use the detailed list view, if you need to browse quickly, use the thumbnail view. I realize that the compact view is much more compact, but it doesn't seem worth the work and the UI overhead. I agree, it was just an example of the different possible views. In the mockup (here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center) the filenames follow the old ms-dos 8 digit rule; am I wrong if I assume that, today, nobody still uses that rule in the real life ? ;-) Sorry, I left out the handling of long names from the proposal. Given that Gnome Documents [1] uses the same layout, how about adopting their way -- limiting the filename to two rows, and if it doesn't fit, cutting it off about 8 characters from the end of the word, if I'm not mistaken. You can ask Jon McCann or Jakub Steiner about the specifics, if you'd like. Why only 2 rows? If the files systems allow to have long filenames, applications should not decide to nullify this functionality. I was basing the design on that of Gnome Documents, where the reasoning is to keep a nice layout going. iWork and Google Drive go even further and allow one line for filenames. Perhaps you're right, though -- maybe we should leave the file names up to the user. Still, I'd be more comfortable limiting the name to at least 3 or 4 rows, to make sure a single file doesn't completely break the layout. In a detailed list view, each column should be adjustable. Indeed it is very common to have filenames longer than 30 characters and distinguishable only by their last characters (for example when using suffixes like _v01, _v02, etc.). Yes -- that's why the cuttoff should leave about 8 characters at the end of the word. (Gnome's example is Filetype icon is really a severe an..xception.) As the new StartCenter becomes a kind of document manager, it should be very useful if it allowed to right-click on a document to display some useful informations like size, pathname, last modified date, etc. From an accessibility point of view, tooltips should be displayed in the thumbnails view. Tooltips with what information? (Tooltips should show the full title if it's cut off.) Another function which could be very useful is remove all not existent local files from the recent files list. This should be done automatically, not with a button. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi, Le 14/08/2013 08:51, Mirek M. a écrit : On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org mailto:jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center I just tried the first implementation of the new startcenter in the master. It is interesting to view the recent documents but there is a problem in the actual implementation in which it is impossible to see the entire name of the file. Do you plan to offer different views of the list, like icons, detailed list and compact list? My opinion on the matter: It'd be good to keep the number of views simple. A detailed list makes sense, but I don't see much of a point in an icon list (thumbnails are much more informational, icons just show the file type and are completely useless when you're not on the All tab). I disagree, icons are useful even when you are not on the All tab to distinguish between ODF, MSO files or other document formats. AFAIK, we don't have separate icons for the various file formats right now. However, if easy separation between these formats was something we needed, we could simply add labels to our thumbnails instead. This would add clutter, though, so perhaps presenting this information as a file extension might be better. I think thumbnails are informational if you have the possibility to zoom temporary on a particular thumbnail to see a more detailed view. In other cases I prefer icons and filenames. You should use list view, then. :) I'm not in favor of a compact list either -- if you need a list, use the detailed list view, if you need to browse quickly, use the thumbnail view. I realize that the compact view is much more compact, but it doesn't seem worth the work and the UI overhead. I agree, it was just an example of the different possible views. In the mockup (here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center) the filenames follow the old ms-dos 8 digit rule; am I wrong if I assume that, today, nobody still uses that rule in the real life ? ;-) Sorry, I left out the handling of long names from the proposal. Given that Gnome Documents [1] uses the same layout, how about adopting their way -- limiting the filename to two rows, and if it doesn't fit, cutting it off about 8 characters from the end of the word, if I'm not mistaken. You can ask Jon McCann or Jakub Steiner about the specifics, if you'd like. Why only 2 rows? If the files systems allow to have long filenames, applications should not decide to nullify this functionality. I was basing the design on that of Gnome Documents, where the reasoning is to keep a nice layout going. iWork and Google Drive go even further and allow one line for filenames. Perhaps you're right, though -- maybe we should leave the file names up to the user. Still, I'd be more comfortable limiting the name to at least 3 or 4 rows, to make sure a single file doesn't completely break the layout. In a detailed list view, each column should be adjustable. Forgot to comment this: Here, again, I'd like to adopt the Gnome Documents layout, which is not adjustable, but works well with just about any reasonable window size. The columns are: 1) Small thumbnails 2) Titile on the first row, the author in a lighter font on the second row. This column has maximum width. 3) File type (for us, simply ODF or DOC would do) 4) Local vs. cloud storage (not applicable for us right now) 5) Date of last edit. That said, maybe the list view is a bit premature at this point. Indeed it is very common to have filenames longer than 30 characters and distinguishable only by their last characters (for example when using suffixes like _v01, _v02, etc.). Yes -- that's why the cuttoff should leave about 8 characters at the end of the word. (Gnome's example is Filetype icon is really a severe an..xception.) As the new StartCenter becomes a kind of document manager, it should be very useful if it allowed to right-click on a document to display some useful informations like size, pathname, last modified date, etc. From an accessibility point of view, tooltips should be displayed in the thumbnails view. Tooltips with what information? (Tooltips should show the full title if it's cut off.) Another function which could be very useful is remove all not existent local files from the recent files list. This should be done automatically, not with a button. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi! Thank you! In the original mockup, new document buttons were on the all tab, I just haven't added them yet in this first iteration, but I will later. All the best, Krisztian On 16 August 2013 14:34, Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Krisztian Nice work so far. I'm no UX-expert but one thing that struck me when trying out the new start center was that I did not immediately find how to open an empty document. I had to choose a category to find the new document button. Wouldn't it make sense to add all buttons (new document, new spreadsheet, new ...) to the all tab? Regards, Niklas Johansson Krisztian Pinter skrev 2013-07-24 18:16: Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center Currently, the Start Center (the start screen you get when you start LibreOffice) is only a static bitmap, with few buttons and links. It would be useful to present few recently used documents there (as thumbnails), and do more fancy stuff. See this overview and WidgetLayout to get more information about the Widget Layout (this part is actually very similar to the above mentioned task). Additionally, code for rendering the thumbnails will have to be introduced, and maybe some code sharing with the new Template Manager will be needed too. I've already converted the current startcenter to .ui, and it has been merged to master, but it's still being improved. I'm currently working on adding thumbnails for recent docs. I'd like to request a mockup for the startcenter (with thumbnails for recent docs), so we can make it look nice and pretty. Kendy, my GSoC mentor, listed these points as his preference: * Keep the buttons to start apps some way (but they could be smaller or organized another way * Keep the LibreOffice logo, but the other visual things (like the shadows etc.) might go from my point of view * Make it resizable, so that the screen size is better used (ie. no more fixed rectangle in the middle of the screen) Looking forward to your feedback! All the best, Krisztian ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing listLibreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.orghttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center Another problem with the current implementation: it seems not possible to browse the recent files by using left and right arrays on the keyboard, it is only possible to click on thumbnails with the mouse which is not the most efficient for many users. Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center I just tried the first implementation of the new startcenter in the master. It is interesting to view the recent documents but there is a problem in the actual implementation in which it is impossible to see the entire name of the file. Do you plan to offer different views of the list, like icons, detailed list and compact list? My opinion on the matter: It'd be good to keep the number of views simple. A detailed list makes sense, but I don't see much of a point in an icon list (thumbnails are much more informational, icons just show the file type and are completely useless when you're not on the All tab). I'm not in favor of a compact list either -- if you need a list, use the detailed list view, if you need to browse quickly, use the thumbnail view. I realize that the compact view is much more compact, but it doesn't seem worth the work and the UI overhead. In the mockup (here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center) the filenames follow the old ms-dos 8 digit rule; am I wrong if I assume that, today, nobody still uses that rule in the real life ? ;-) Sorry, I left out the handling of long names from the proposal. Given that Gnome Documents [1] uses the same layout, how about adopting their way -- limiting the filename to two rows, and if it doesn't fit, cutting it off about 8 characters from the end of the word, if I'm not mistaken. You can ask Jon McCann or Jakub Steiner about the specifics, if you'd like. [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/Apps/Documents#Tentative_Design ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi, Le 14/08/2013 08:51, Mirek M. a écrit : On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org mailto:jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org wrote: Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center I just tried the first implementation of the new startcenter in the master. It is interesting to view the recent documents but there is a problem in the actual implementation in which it is impossible to see the entire name of the file. Do you plan to offer different views of the list, like icons, detailed list and compact list? My opinion on the matter: It'd be good to keep the number of views simple. A detailed list makes sense, but I don't see much of a point in an icon list (thumbnails are much more informational, icons just show the file type and are completely useless when you're not on the All tab). I disagree, icons are useful even when you are not on the All tab to distinguish between ODF, MSO files or other document formats. I think thumbnails are informational if you have the possibility to zoom temporary on a particular thumbnail to see a more detailed view. In other cases I prefer icons and filenames. I'm not in favor of a compact list either -- if you need a list, use the detailed list view, if you need to browse quickly, use the thumbnail view. I realize that the compact view is much more compact, but it doesn't seem worth the work and the UI overhead. I agree, it was just an example of the different possible views. In the mockup (here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center) the filenames follow the old ms-dos 8 digit rule; am I wrong if I assume that, today, nobody still uses that rule in the real life ? ;-) Sorry, I left out the handling of long names from the proposal. Given that Gnome Documents [1] uses the same layout, how about adopting their way -- limiting the filename to two rows, and if it doesn't fit, cutting it off about 8 characters from the end of the word, if I'm not mistaken. You can ask Jon McCann or Jakub Steiner about the specifics, if you'd like. Why only 2 rows? If the files systems allow to have long filenames, applications should not decide to nullify this functionality. In a detailed list view, each column should be adjustable. Indeed it is very common to have filenames longer than 30 characters and distinguishable only by their last characters (for example when using suffixes like _v01, _v02, etc.). As the new StartCenter becomes a kind of document manager, it should be very useful if it allowed to right-click on a document to display some useful informations like size, pathname, last modified date, etc. From an accessibility point of view, tooltips should be displayed in the thumbnails view. Another function which could be very useful is remove all not existent local files from the recent files list. Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi Krisztian, Le 24/07/2013 18:16, Krisztian Pinter a écrit : Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center I just tried the first implementation of the new startcenter in the master. It is interesting to view the recent documents but there is a problem in the actual implementation in which it is impossible to see the entire name of the file. Do you plan to offer different views of the list, like icons, detailed list and compact list? In the mockup (here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center) the filenames follow the old ms-dos 8 digit rule; am I wrong if I assume that, today, nobody still uses that rule in the real life ? ;-) Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [GSoC] Use Widget Layout for the Start Center
Hi Krisztian, On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Krisztian Pinter pin.termina...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all! I'm working on this GSoC project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_Widget_Layout_for_the_Start_Center Currently, the Start Center (the start screen you get when you start LibreOffice) is only a static bitmap, with few buttons and links. It would be useful to present few recently used documents there (as thumbnails), and do more fancy stuff. See this overview and WidgetLayout to get more information about the Widget Layout (this part is actually very similar to the above mentioned task). Additionally, code for rendering the thumbnails will have to be introduced, and maybe some code sharing with the new Template Manager will be needed too. Sounds good. I was about to say that perhaps you could try to reuse the Template Manager's thumbnail rendering. I've already converted the current startcenter to .ui, and it has been merged to master, but it's still being improved. I'm currently working on adding thumbnails for recent docs. I'd like to request a mockup for the startcenter (with thumbnails for recent docs), so we can make it look nice and pretty. I started a whiteboard for it: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center. Kendy, my GSoC mentor, listed these points as his preference: * Keep the buttons to start apps some way (but they could be smaller or organized another way * Keep the LibreOffice logo, but the other visual things (like the shadows etc.) might go from my point of view * Make it resizable, so that the screen size is better used (ie. no more fixed rectangle in the middle of the screen) I tried to incorporate these into the scope. Take a look at it and feel free to make changes based on what you feel like doing. :) Thanks for working on this! Looking forward to your feedback! All the best, Krisztian ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise ___ Libreoffice-ux-advise mailing list Libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise
