Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:57:38 +0100 From: Philip Nienhuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Hi Joseph: Joseph wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:08:53 -0700 From: Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Greetings: I want to upgrade to a Western Digital Scorpio 120GB HD, running Win98SE, and have MS DOS 6.22 as well on a 110CT 1. Do I need a drive overlay? You do NOT strictly NEED it, but it can make things easier. There was a thread a month or so ago on exactly this subject. A long answer to your question is in a posting by me: http://www.mail-archive.com/libretto%40basiclink.com/msg16832.html A little later, John Martin outlined how to set it all up, and some people added useful suggestions, * OFF-TOPIC: * Pity the mailing list archives on http://www.technoir.nu/libretto/list/ are inaccessible nowadays. Would make some very useful reading for you. On the Wayback Machine there's a backup until the end of January 2005: http://web.archive.org/web/2005104934/www.technoir.org/libretto/list/ But there were other list archive somewhere anyone? I found: http://www.mail-archive.com/libretto%40basiclink.com/ (seems fairly complete at first glance) http://www.mail-archive.com/libretto%40yahoogroups.com/ (but some people -like me- don't like yahoo groups) I fear the Libretto mailing list archives might simply vanish in the near future. Unless www.webarchive.org keeps a recent copy. * /OFF-TOPIC * 2. What is the steps for installing both MS DOS 6.22 and Win98SE? To start with: have separate partitions for them. Win98 SE is based on MS-DOS 7. You can't mix up DOS versions. BTW: what does DOS 6.22 have that MS-DOS 7 (the base under Win9x) does not have? I see no real advantage in having 6.22. I have tried FDISK, Installing MS DOS 6.22, then atemping to get the CD-Rom to be recognized to install Win, but could not see the CD-Rom. Does DOS 6.22 support FAT32? which is what you need if you want DOS to access any partition bigger than 2 GB. I want to keep things as simple as possible, one partion, no overlay if possible, etc. 120 GB in one partition? In that case a scandisk session (which happens occasionally on Win98 98SE DOS 6.22) would take quite some time, you know People who I think are far more knowledgeable than me ( perhaps even you) use to advise against having just one big partition. At least a separation between data and operating system is warranted. And on Librettos 50-110 there is another VERY good reason that you need at least two partitions: it is called the hibernation area problem. Which boils down to the fact that when the Libretto hibernates through the BIOS it writes its RAM contents to a place around 8 GB. Which would be right in the middle of your one big partition And no, the hibernation routine doesn't care what data it overwrites there. And yes, after wake-up from hibernation you might need to re-install the entire fandango. FYI: BIOS hibernation is used automatically when the Lib overheats and DOS/Win95/98/98SE/ME use it because they have no built-in hibernation like Win2K WinXP. Good luck, Philip
Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:41:24 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) --- Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings: I want to upgrade to a Western Digital Scorpio 120GB HD, running Win98SE, and have MS DOS 6.22 as well on a 110CT 1. Do I need a drive overlay? 2. What is the steps for installing both MS DOS 6.22 and Win98SE? I have tried FDISK, Installing MS DOS 6.22, then atemping to get the CD-Rom to be recognized to install Win, but could not see the CD-Rom. I want to keep things as simple as possible, one partion, no overlay if possible, etc. Joseph, My last reply didn't make it to the list. Real quick, check the bottom of the page here: http://www.technoir.org/libretto/list/2005/msg01253.html Philip has written out the process of setting these things up many times. Here's an archive search where you might find his other posts: http://www.technoir.org/cgi-bin/libretto.cgi?query=philip+fdisk+partitionsort=swishrankdr_o=12dr_s_mon=1dr_s_day=16dr_s_year=2007dr_e_mon=1dr_e_day=16dr_e_year=2007 Matt Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
RE: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:11:30 -0800 From: John Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Hello Joseph... I am heading out the door to go to work, but when I get back tonight I will reply to this message with a short description and some links You don't necessarily need a drive overlay. It depends on which method you use of setting up your hard drive. One partition is not generally possible with a drive over roughly 8GB in a Libretto 110CT due to the hibernation routines needing that area to write hibernation area data into. More complete reply later... John Martin -- From: Joseph [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:11 PM To: Libretto Subject: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:08:53 -0700 From: Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Greetings: I want to upgrade to a Western Digital Scorpio 120GB HD, running Win98SE, and have MS DOS 6.22 as well on a 110CT 1. Do I need a drive overlay? 2. What is the steps for installing both MS DOS 6.22 and Win98SE? I have tried FDISK, Installing MS DOS 6.22, then atemping to get the CD-Rom to be recognized to install Win, but could not see the CD-Rom. I want to keep things as simple as possible, one partion, no overlay if possible, etc. Thank you. Joseph application/ms-tnef
Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:41:44 -0800 (PST) From: David Chien [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Search the Libretto Mailing List Archives. Long threads on this topic. I'll see if there's a post I've kept, too. adorable toshiba libretto The latest news and information for the Toshiba Libretto owner. http://www.silverace.com/libretto/ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:45:10 -0800 (PST) From: David Chien [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 07:42:07 -0800 From: John Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [LIB] 110 HD upgrade?? Because I learned about how to work around this hibernation area from this system and so many helpful Libretto users, I will share my preferred method of formatting drives around the hibernation area on Libretto 100 and 110CT's. I have done this for others many times now. The methods seems SO complicated compared to just formatting a hard drive, but trust me, these guys know what they are talking about. It is necessary. After a LOT of experimentation I only have a lot of respect for most everyone who offered me (and many others) ideas on how to work around this hard drive hibernation area on Libretto's. Here is the method I use. It requires a second computer with bios ability to see beyond the Libretto's. Most any Pentium 2 Class and up is a sure thing.) I use an adapter to plug the 2.5 drives into the full size EIDE cable of the second computer. I have used this method many times now with my two Libretto's (100CT and 110CT) so I don't know about any other models. I have also done this more than a dozen times now for others Libretto's. 1. First I use fdisk to set up the drive to its maximum size INSIDE the Libretto. It will be about 8Gig This to me is the most logical step because any issues with the Libretto bios become irrelevant because the bios in question IS making the partition. No figuring out where to leave a hibernation hole etc. 2. Then I remove the drive from the Libretto and install the adapter and place it into the second computer as a secondary drive. 3. I normally use Western Digital Lifeguard Tools usually, but other programs for setting up drives will probably work fine. I use this software to set up the remaining space on the drive into two partitions. The first partition I just set up as 100 meg or so. The second partition I set up as the rest of the drive. 4. Reboot and verify the partitions. (this just insures they were writing to disk) Now I DELETE the 100 meg partition. This insures an Operating System doesn't try to format and use it. This 100 meg area insures there is plenty of space between usable partitions for the Librettos hibernation. Because the Libretto itself set up the original 8 gig partition, the END of this partition is sure to be in the right place relative to the Libretto Hibernation. I know the hibernation might only need to be smaller, but is easier to be safe and besides that, I think the software I have used has a minimum size I can make the partition. Haven't set one up in a few months. An important note I did realize years ago after several drive corruption's! You can not turn off the Librettos hibernation function. It can be triggered by hardware independent of your OS for thermal overload and low battery conditions. SO no matter your OS, IF the Libretto tries to hibernate, it goes as far as the BIOS (specifically) can see (8.X gig) and starts it write. Instant data corruption. If I had ONLY known this years ago it would have saved me so much time formatting and replacing data. I have successfully done the above on more than a dozen Libretto 100CT's and 110CT's with basically every hard drive brand I have seen. It has been used on drives from 15gig to 100gig. I run Windows 98 on my Librettos but I have set this up for persons with other OS's. I do not install their OS's, I just set up the partitions and make them DOS bootable. It isn't as difficult as it looks at first. I can do this in a few minutes now. If you need any specifics for any of the above, just email me and I will do my best to assist you further. Most likely everything I have typed is somewhere else in this system though. I learned it all here. adorable toshiba libretto The latest news and information for the Toshiba Libretto owner. http://www.silverace.com/libretto/ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:46:28 -0800 (PST) From: David Chien [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Re: [LIB] 110 HD upgrade?? Philip Nienhuis Sat, 02 Dec 2006 04:35:12 -0800 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 13:33:50 +0100 From: Philip Nienhuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD upgrade?? hello Tony, Tony Oresteen wrote: Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 01:40:51 -0500 From: Tony Oresteen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ^^^ I've hidden your e-mail address. Now that I noted this...: Apparently the server doen't hide e-mail addresses. Bad thing, as this is a good opportunity for e-mail address harvesters :-( (The list archives are publicly accessible) Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD upgrade?? Phil, ...Philip :-) (sorry) With the 70CT and the 100CT, you do need an overlay to get past 8 gigs. On the contrary, I have never used an overlay in my L110 and yet had full use of 15, 40 60 GB hard disks in my Lib. Admittedly you must get your HDs partitioned somehow. But even in a Lib100/110 an overlay is not necessarily needed at that stage. Just tonight I set up a 10 gig drive for my new Libby 70CT. I didn't use FDISK I used Partition Magic 8.0. It showed the drive as 8 gig drive when I partitioned it in the Libby. PM8 uses the Libby BIOS to get the drive info. The thread you started and that I replied to was about L110 upgrades, not about L70 upgrades. I'll only refer to L100/L110, as I know little about the L50/70 BIOS. ISTR that the Lib50/70 BIOS has no int13 extensions implemented... right? anyone? The stanza uses the BIOS points to the issue at hand. I'll gladly explain again (I'll promise to limit the recurrence time of my explanation to once every 1-2 years or so). OK, here we go: The L100/110 BIOS (don't know about L50/70) does have all int13 extensions implemented for access 8 GB. As a consequence you simply do NOT need an overlay - for daily use that is. Not even for DOS. But... there's a bug in the one little BIOS function which returns drive size. That function is only used at partition time, doubtlessly also at hibernation time. It apparently still uses CHS translation. Now, DOS FDISK and older versions of PM always ask the BIOS for drive size and get a wrong answer from the Libretto. Modern OS-es (Win2K, Linux, even OS/2) ask the drive itself and get a good answer. That's why I suggest to avoid DOS FDISK or PM8 for partitioning; they use a wrong answer. And once again: this problem only plays a role at partitioning hibernation time. Once a partitioning scheme incl. areas 8 GB has been set up, this whole issue is irrelevant. Taking the drive out and putting it in a USB external case I attached it to my XP desktop. Sure enough Drive management shows 1.8 gig unallocated space. That include the drive memory swap area that the Libby uses. Do not try to use this area! When the Libby sleeps it copies the contents of RAM at the 8 gig boundry and overwrites anything that is there. Indeed, in the L100/100 the hibernation area is another, related problem. On my Lib it extends up to cyl. 1026, i.e. beyond the 1024 cyl (=8.3 or so GB) limit). Luckily, hibernation uses int13 extensions (otherwise it can't extend beyond 1024 cyls), so it is a contiguous area of RAM size + video size + some BIOS data blocks. On my Lib110 I have 71 MiB reserved, and as linux /boot is immediately beyond it and I never experienced hibernation or linux problems, I know this is sufficient. BTW The fact that the hibernation area extends beyond 1024 cyls. while the start is based on CHS calculations is intriguing (but I've never bothered to do the arithmetic so it might be logical too). Summing up the technical issues: 1. Only if you want: - to partition your new 8GB hard disk INSIDE your Libretto, AND - you insist in using DOS FDISK (BTW the same as in Win98x) or PM8, ONLY THEN you need an overlay (or LDS100CT.exe for disks 32 GB, see URL below). 2. In ALL other cases, including: - daily access to partitions beyond 8 GB inside the Libretto, AND/OR - partitioning outside the Libretto, AND/OR - using anything else for partitioning than DOS FDISK or PM8, an overlay is overkill (as it merely duplicates available functionality) and it won't solve the hibernation area problem either. From a practical perspective, an overlay is an easy (but IMO dirty) fix. Sure it works (but NOT for the hibernation!) And a little warning: overlays *can* give trouble: (1) As soon as you invoke other OSes that do not need overlays and may get confused (that's why you must always pre-boot into the overlay before booting your OS). And as outlined above, even native DOS is in this category, it needs no overlay to access data 8 GB. (2) If you move your overlayed HD into another PC as second HD or external HD. Because then the overlay won't have a chance to get initialized; consequence is that you might not be able to access the data
Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:45:50 -0800 (PST) From: David Chien [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) OK, here we go: The L100/110 BIOS (don't know about L50/70) does have all int13 extensions implemented for access 8 GB. As a consequence you simply do NOT need an overlay - for daily use that is. Not even for DOS. But... there's a bug in the one little BIOS function which returns drive size. That function is only used at partition time, doubtlessly also at hibernation time. It apparently still uses CHS translation. Now, DOS FDISK and older versions of PM always ask the BIOS for drive size and get a wrong answer from the Libretto. Modern OS-es (Win2K, Linux, even OS/2) ask the drive itself and get a good answer. That's why I suggest to avoid DOS FDISK or PM8 for partitioning; they use a wrong answer. And once again: this problem only plays a role at partitioning hibernation time. Once a partitioning scheme incl. areas 8 GB has been set up, this whole issue is irrelevant. adorable toshiba libretto The latest news and information for the Toshiba Libretto owner. http://www.silverace.com/libretto/ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
[LIB] 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:08:53 -0700 From: Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 110 HD Confusion (Win98SE) Greetings: I want to upgrade to a Western Digital Scorpio 120GB HD, running Win98SE, and have MS DOS 6.22 as well on a 110CT 1. Do I need a drive overlay? 2. What is the steps for installing both MS DOS 6.22 and Win98SE? I have tried FDISK, Installing MS DOS 6.22, then atemping to get the CD-Rom to be recognized to install Win, but could not see the CD-Rom. I want to keep things as simple as possible, one partion, no overlay if possible, etc. Thank you. Joseph
