Re: Lyric extenders in/out of alternatives
On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 at 10:51, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote: > > Thanks for that explanation, which goes on the heap of things I have to > try to wrap my head around. :-) Hello, We have just had the question on the French list and from what I see the documentation still mentions \skip 1 and is less good than what Lukas-Fabian proposes. https://lilypond.community/t/lyrics-et-reprises-alternatives/5674 Would it be possible to replace this part of Lyrics and repeats? Or is there a reason not to? Or would it be necessary to change Lyric_combine_music_iterator so as not to have to do this at all (the right result automatically)? But in both cases what is currently documented in NR 2.1.2 doesn't give the best result. Best regards, Xavier
Re: Lyric extenders in/out of alternatives
Am 05.10.21 um 01:41 schrieb Dan Eble:
I'd basically be interested in trying to understand the mechanics involved, but
seeing as term started today at our university, I'm sceptical I can spend
serious time on this before Christmas break. (And there's a fair chance it
would be above my head anyway.)
Volta_specced_music_iterator emits VoltaSpanEvents carrying i,j,k at the start
and end of \volta i,j,k {}. I expect that Lyric_combine_music_iterator could
register for these events and use them to ignore notes that do not apply to the
volta of interest.
Thanks for that explanation, which goes on the heap of things I have to
try to wrap my head around. :-)
You would want a way to indicate in the ly code that a span of lyrics should be
set to a specific volta of the music. The existing stanza number feature seems
obvious, but it would be limiting. (Examples: a partly through-composed
arrangement with 2 stanzas per volta; a transcription of stanzas 1, 5, and 9 of
a source in a situation where renumbering is undesirable)
Yes, I agree that StanzaNumber is not the right tool for this: This is
presentation layer, and as I abuse this every day with (the German
version of) stuff like \set Stanza = "C major:" - music theory teacher
here :-) -, I'd be vary of adding any semantic meaning to the contents
of the Stanza markup.
I am asking myself, "Why not use \volta for that?" and I don't have an answer
yet.
If I understand correctly, this would require writing \volta i,j,k { }
in \lyricmode at precisely the "right" places in sync with the
repeats/alternatives in the music. Is that right?
My gut feeling is that stanza-behaviour might be more of a persistent
(changeable) property of a line of Lyrics: If unset, Lyrics ignore any
\volta's they encounter in the associated voice. If set (to a volta
number or a list of such), any voltas they encounter along the way would
be skipped if the numbers don't match.
Feel free to ignore this if this obvious nonsense with respect to the
inner workings.
Lukas
Re: Lyric extenders in/out of alternatives
On Oct 4, 2021, at 12:44, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:
>
>>> Of course, the ideal solution would be a possibility to tell the Lyrics
>>> context that it should "take" the second alternative and make it skip the
>>> first alternative automatically (and suspend the LyricExtender along the
>>> way). But my feeling is that this would be not so easy to implement.
>>
>> Probably doable, and probably a fair bit of work.
>
> I'd basically be interested in trying to understand the mechanics involved,
> but seeing as term started today at our university, I'm sceptical I can spend
> serious time on this before Christmas break. (And there's a fair chance it
> would be above my head anyway.)
Volta_specced_music_iterator emits VoltaSpanEvents carrying i,j,k at the start
and end of \volta i,j,k {}. I expect that Lyric_combine_music_iterator could
register for these events and use them to ignore notes that do not apply to the
volta of interest.
You would want a way to indicate in the ly code that a span of lyrics should be
set to a specific volta of the music. The existing stanza number feature seems
obvious, but it would be limiting. (Examples: a partly through-composed
arrangement with 2 stanzas per volta; a transcription of stanzas 1, 5, and 9 of
a source in a situation where renumbering is undesirable)
I am asking myself, "Why not use \volta for that?" and I don't have an answer
yet.
—
Dan
Re: Lyric extenders in/out of alternatives
Le 04/10/2021 à 18:44, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit : Does anybody see a better solution that might be good enough for the NR? Well-invented. I don't see anything better. Thanks (also for looking at this in the first place). My feeling is that this should replace the "_something" example in the NR, but because of its complexity, it should perhaps rather be a "selected snippet" than a regular NR example. Would that be reasonable? There is not much of a difference between snippets and regular examples, except that snippets are normally synced back to the LSR so they become searchable there. But the LSR is lagging behind in 2.18 and I haven't heard of plans to port it. So, follow your intuition I would say. Best, Jean
Re: Lyric extenders in/out of alternatives
Does anybody see a better solution that might be good enough for the NR? Well-invented. I don't see anything better. Thanks (also for looking at this in the first place). My feeling is that this should replace the "_something" example in the NR, but because of its complexity, it should perhaps rather be a "selected snippet" than a regular NR example. Would that be reasonable? Of course, the ideal solution would be a possibility to tell the Lyrics context that it should "take" the second alternative and make it skip the first alternative automatically (and suspend the LyricExtender along the way). But my feeling is that this would be not so easy to implement. Probably doable, and probably a fair bit of work. I'd basically be interested in trying to understand the mechanics involved, but seeing as term started today at our university, I'm sceptical I can spend serious time on this before Christmas break. (And there's a fair chance it would be above my head anyway.) Lukas
Re: Lyric extenders in/out of alternatives
Le 03/10/2021 à 11:34, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
Folks,
in my quest to maybe get rid of the recommendations of "\skip 1" for
lyrics in the NR I stumbled upon the following example in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/techniques-specific-to-lyrics.html:
% If you wish to show extenders and hyphens into and out
% of alternative sections these must be inserted manually.
\version "2.23.4"
\relative {
\time 2/4
\repeat volta 2 { b'4 b ~}
\alternative {
\volta 1 { b b }
\volta 2 { b \repeatTie c }
}
c4 c
}
\addlyrics {
Here's a __ verse.
\repeat unfold 2 { \skip 1 } % btw: why this line?
}
\addlyrics {
Here's "a_"
\skip 1
"_" sec -- ond one.
}
(I simplified the input code a bit - which I actually also would like
to propose for the NR -, but the gist of the original example remains
unchanged.)
Now this looks kind-of decent in the NR, but once you issue
ragged-last = ##f, the limits of that hack show clearly (see attached
image). And there should be a difference between a LyricExtender and
an underscore as part of literal lyrics.
Of course the problem is exacerbated if the second alternative extends
the melisma with multiple notes.
The best I could come up with is:
\relative {
\time 2/4
\repeat volta 2 { b'4 b ~}
\alternative {
\volta 1 { b b }
\volta 2 { b \repeatTie c }
}
c4 c
}
\addlyrics {
Here's a __ verse.
}
\addlyrics {
Here's \set ignoreMelismata = ##t a __
"" "" \set ignoreMelismata = ##f
\markup\null __ sec -- ond one.
% \markup\null doesn't kill melismata,
% in contrast to ""
}
This has the advantage of being more-or-less semantically correct
input, and it works with longer melismata:
\relative {
\time 2/4
\repeat volta 2 { b'4 b( | c8 b a g | }
\alternative {
\volta 1 { b4) b }
\volta 2 {
\shape #'((-3 . 0) (-2 . 0) (-1 . 0) (0 . 0)) Slur
a8( b c b) | }
}
a8 g g4
}
\addlyrics {
Here's a __ verse.
}
\addlyrics {
Here's \set ignoreMelismata = ##t a __ _ _ _ _
"" ""
\set ignoreMelismata = ##f \markup\null __ sec -- ond one.
}
Does anybody see a better solution that might be good enough for the NR?
Well-invented. I don't see anything better.
Of course, the ideal solution would be a possibility to tell the
Lyrics context that it should "take" the second alternative and make
it skip the first alternative automatically (and suspend the
LyricExtender along the way). But my feeling is that this would be not
so easy to implement.
Probably doable, and probably a fair bit of work.
Best,
Jean
