Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-09 Thread Graham Percival
On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 10:38:04AM +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> 
> > I do not believe that there is a notion of "package" copyright in
> > most countries' laws.
> 
> On page
>   http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html
> I see this:
> 
>   To update the list of year numbers, add each year in which you have
...
>   not.  It is recommended and simpler to add the new year to all files
>   in the package, and be done with it for the rest of the year.
> 
> This answers it, doesn't it?

Indeed it does.  My apologies for missing that paragraph.

> > - does lilypond follow the GNU maintainers' guide?
> 
> I hope so.  If we don't, we should access our working routines.

I don't think we discuss the "copyright range" format in our
README.txt, so that's one instance in which we don't follow it.

- Graham

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Carl Sorensen


On 1/5/14 12:00 AM, "David Kastrup"  wrote:
>According to Savannah, you still have push privileges (and I should be
>surprised if not).  What did you try?  What was the error message?  Did
>you perhaps not use a member checkout?
>http://savannah.gnu.org/git/?group=lilypond>


Yes, that was the problem.  On my new VM, I did a git clone from the
public address.

After updating my ssh keys, and reconfiguring my repository, I can now
push to staging.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Carl


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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG

> I don't think there is a mistake in the conversion script.  I think
> this was a hypothetical, rather than an actual case where 2012
> turned to 2014.  [...]

Very good, thanks for checking.


Werner

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Carl Sorensen


On 1/5/14 12:09 AM, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:

>
>> I'm not a lawyer, but the year in a copyright notice is supposed to
>> be the year of original publication. If you have a document first
>> published in 2012 with a "Copyright 2012" notice and you change the
>> year to 2014 without making any other changes, [...]
>
>Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
>changed to `2012-2014', of course.

I don't think there is a mistake in the conversion script.  I think this
was a hypothetical, rather than an actual case where 2012 turned to 2014.

grep 2014 0001-Run-grand-replace-issue-3765.patch | grep -v - returned
nothing.

And we see the following:

carl@carl-lilydev ~/lilypond-git (dev/cds)$ grep 2013
0001-Run-grand-replace-issue-3765.patch
-Copyright (c) 1996--2013, The LilyPond authors (lilypond.org)
-  Copyright (C) 2013 Aleksandr Andreev 
+  Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Aleksandr Andreev 
-  Copyright (C) 2013 Mike Solomon 
+  Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Mike Solomon 
-  Copyright (C) 2013 Aleksandr Andreev 
+  Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Aleksandr Andreev 
-  Copyright (C) 2013 Aleksandr Andreev 
+  Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Aleksandr Andreev 
-  Copyright (C) 2013 by Heikki Tauriainen .
+  Copyright (C) 2013--2014 by Heikki Tauriainen .
-  Copyright (C) 2013 Mike Solomon 
+  Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Mike Solomon 
 # Walter Garcia-Fontes , 2013.
-# Copyright (C) 2013 Han-Wen Nienhuys, Jan Nieuwenhuizen
+# Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Han-Wen Nienhuys, Jan Nieuwenhuizen
-# Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
+# Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
- Copyright (C) 2013 Mike Solomon 
+ Copyright (C) 2013--2014 Mike Solomon 

where 2013 properly changes to 2013--2014.


Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread David Kastrup
Carl Sorensen  writes:

> In response to issue 3765, I ran make grand-replace to update all copyright
> notices to 2014.
>
> It looks like I no longer have push privileges, so I couldn't push the
> patch to staging.

According to Savannah, you still have push privileges (and I should be
surprised if not).  What did you try?  What was the error message?  Did
you perhaps not use a member checkout?
http://savannah.gnu.org/git/?group=lilypond>

Note that if you

a) have a member checkout
b) can do anything at all

you have push privileges.  A revocation of push privileges would mean
that your member checkouts would stop working completely.

An anonymous checkout will always work, but only for reading.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG

>> AFAIK, this is not correct.  We have to make a distinction between
>> singular files and files that a part of a package.  What matters
>> for us is the *package* copyright.
> 
> I do not believe that there is a notion of "package" copyright in
> most countries' laws.

On page

  http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html

I see this:

  To update the list of year numbers, add each year in which you have
  made nontrivial changes to the package.  (Here we assume you’re
  using a publicly accessible revision control server, so that every
  revision installed is also immediately and automatically published.)
  When you add the new year, it is not required to keep track of which
  files have seen significant changes in the new year and which have
  not.  It is recommended and simpler to add the new year to all files
  in the package, and be done with it for the rest of the year.

This answers it, doesn't it?

> - does the GNU maintainers' guide make suggestions that are founded
>   in good legal understanding?

Definitely yes!  The FSF Europe is also working on this.  For example,
the GPL has successfully defended in German courts.

> - does lilypond follow the GNU maintainers' guide?

I hope so.  If we don't, we should access our working routines.


Werner
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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Graham Percival
On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 09:37:30AM +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> 
> > The purpose of listing the year is to give an indication of when the
> > copyright will expire.
> 
> AFAIK, this is not correct.  We have to make a distinction between
> singular files and files that a part of a package.  What matters for
> us is the *package* copyright.

I do not believe that there is a notion of "package" copyright in
most countries' laws.  But at this point, I'd like to propose a
distinction between (at least) two questions:

- does the GNU maintainers' guide make suggestions that are
  founded in good legal understanding?

- does lilypond follow the GNU maintainers' guide?

I am reasonably confident that GNU organization consulted with
lawyers as necessary to produce a good set of guidelines.
Admittely the focus would likely be on US copyright law, but I'm
still confident that GNU considered the international situation as
well.  However, it is always possible that somebody made a
mistake, or that the guide is difficult to understand.  In such
case, I suggest contacting GNU directly.

I think the second question is of more immediate concern for
lilypond.  If we don't follow the legal guidelines proposed by
GNU, then we're in a much weaker position if any problems occur.

> If this silent agreement gets ever violated, we have to follow
> standard FSF procedures (since lilypond is an official GNU package),
> asking all contributors to sign copyright assignments to the FSF,
> which would be extremely tedious...

Official GNU packages are not required to sign copyright to the
FSF (that's in the guidelines), but they are encouraged to do so.

- Graham

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG

>> Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
>> changed to `2012-2014', of course.
> 
> The purpose of listing the year is to give an indication of when the
> copyright will expire.  If the last copyrightable change to a
> document was in 2012, but the notice says 2014, then you're
> effectively claiming copyright for two years longer than you're
> actually entitled to.  That's why it's not allowed (and invalidates
> the whole notice).  "2012-2014" has the same problem, since it says
> (incorrectly) that some part of the document will still be under
> copyright after 2012+N.

AFAIK, this is not correct.  We have to make a distinction between
singular files and files that a part of a package.  What matters for
us is the *package* copyright.  Theoretically, no files in a package
needs a copyright notice at all if there is a central copyright notice
– consider some binary stuff where it isn't possible to add a
copyright notice at all.  As soon as a file becomes part of a package,
it inherits the packages copyright.  So if just a single file of a
package gets changed, the copyright year in the package's copyright
notice must be adjusted, and consequently this gets inherited by all
files of the package, even if there was no change.

>> You've misread, I think: The guide doesn't say `file' but `package'.
>> In general, this means that the copyright of *all* files of the
>> LilyPond package should be updated.
> 
> It might make sense to update them all if they're all meant to claim
> copyright on LilyPond as a whole, but I don't think that's the case
> right now.  Some of them list different authors, for example.

Basically, you are right.  However, there is a silent agreement that
if someone contributes to lilypond, the contribution becomes part of
the lilypond package, so the maintainers might adjust the copyright of
the package and thus that of individual files.  Of course, this
doesn't cover the change of the license itself.

If this silent agreement gets ever violated, we have to follow
standard FSF procedures (since lilypond is an official GNU package),
asking all contributors to sign copyright assignments to the FSF,
which would be extremely tedious...


Werner
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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Ben Rudiak-Gould
On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
> Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
> changed to `2012-2014', of course.

The purpose of listing the year is to give an indication of when the
copyright will expire. If the last copyrightable change to a document
was in 2012, but the notice says 2014, then you're effectively
claiming copyright for two years longer than you're actually entitled
to. That's why it's not allowed (and invalidates the whole notice).
"2012-2014" has the same problem, since it says (incorrectly) that
some part of the document will still be under copyright after 2012+N.

> You've misread, I think: The guide doesn't say `file' but `package'.
> In general, this means that the copyright of *all* files of the
> LilyPond package should be updated.

It might make sense to update them all if they're all meant to claim
copyright on LilyPond as a whole, but I don't think that's the case
right now. Some of them list different authors, for example.

-- Ben

(Sorry about the top posting last time; I wasn't thinking.)

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG

> "You can use a range (‘2008-2010’) instead of listing individual
> years (‘2008, 2009, 2010’) if and only if: 1) every year in the
> range, inclusive, really is a “copyrightable” year that would be
> listed individually; and 2) you make an explicit statement in a
> README file about this usage."

OK.  I strongly suggest that we use ranges.

> I don't get the same impression from that page.  It begins by saying
> "You should maintain a proper copyright notice and a license notice
> in each nontrivial file in the package."

Well, looking at Emacs, one of the central FSF projects: They also do
a `grand copyright year replacement' once a year (cf. commit 106782 in
its bzr repository) in all files which have the FSF copyright notice –
using ranges, BTW.  Thus I don't see any reason why we shouldn't do
that either.

My corollary is still that we the copyright conversion script is
buggy :-)


Werner
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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-04 Thread Graham Percival
On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 08:42:59AM +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> 
> >> Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
> >> changed to `2012-2014', of course.
> > 
> > GNU maintainer's guide discourages that:
> > http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html#Copyright-Notices
> 
> What exactly does it discourage?

Perhaps "discourage" is too strong a term:

"You can use a range (‘2008-2010’) instead of listing individual
years (‘2008, 2009, 2010’) if and only if: 1) every year in the
range, inclusive, really is a “copyrightable” year that would be
listed individually; and 2) you make an explicit statement in a
README file about this usage."

> > However, it's also true that the guide says that copyright numbers
> > should only be updated if there's a "nontrivial change" to the
> > file.
> 
> You've misread, I think: The guide doesn't say `file' but `package'.
> In general, this means that the copyright of *all* files of the
> LilyPond package[*] should be updated.

I don't get the same impression from that page.  It begins by
saying "You should maintain a proper copyright notice and a
license notice in each nontrivial file in the package."

> [*] However, not all files distributed with lilypond are also part of
> the package, cf. `texinfo.tex' or `mf2pt1.mp'.

Indeed.

- Graham

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-04 Thread Werner LEMBERG

>> Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
>> changed to `2012-2014', of course.
> 
> GNU maintainer's guide discourages that:
> http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html#Copyright-Notices

What exactly does it discourage?

> However, it's also true that the guide says that copyright numbers
> should only be updated if there's a "nontrivial change" to the
> file.

You've misread, I think: The guide doesn't say `file' but `package'.
In general, this means that the copyright of *all* files of the
LilyPond package[*] should be updated.


Werner


[*] However, not all files distributed with lilypond are also part of
the package, cf. `texinfo.tex' or `mf2pt1.mp'.

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-04 Thread Graham Percival
On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 08:09:45AM +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> 
> > I'm not a lawyer, but the year in a copyright notice is supposed to
> > be the year of original publication. If you have a document first
> > published in 2012 with a "Copyright 2012" notice and you change the
> > year to 2014 without making any other changes, [...]
> 
> Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
> changed to `2012-2014', of course.

GNU maintainer's guide discourages that:
http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Notices.html#Copyright-Notices

However, it's also true that the guide says that copyright numbers
should only be updated if there's a "nontrivial change" to the
file.  That's different from past lilypond policy.

- Graham

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-04 Thread Werner LEMBERG

> I'm not a lawyer, but the year in a copyright notice is supposed to
> be the year of original publication. If you have a document first
> published in 2012 with a "Copyright 2012" notice and you change the
> year to 2014 without making any other changes, [...]

Looks like a mistake in the conversion script.  `2012' should be
changed to `2012-2014', of course.


Werner

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Re: Run grand-replace to update copyright

2014-01-04 Thread Ben Rudiak-Gould
I'm not a lawyer, but the year in a copyright notice is supposed to be the
year of original publication. If you have a document first published in
2012 with a "Copyright 2012" notice and you change the year to 2014 without
making any other changes, the original publication year is still 2012 but
now the copyright notice is incorrect, which makes it legally equivalent to
no notice at all (although copyright notices have little legal meaning
anyway in Berne Convention countries). See here, for example:

  http://www.quizlaw.com/copyrights/what_happens_if_there_is_an_er.php

It makes sense to bump the user-visible copyright notices of lilypond,
convert-ly, and the like to whatever year those tools were last
substantively changed, and to update the notices in individual files to
reflect when they were last changed, but a global search-and-replace is
probably a bad idea.

-- Ben



On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Carl Sorensen wrote:

> In response to issue 3765, I ran make grand-replace to update all
> copyright notices to 2014.
>
> It looks like I no longer have push privileges, so I couldn't push the
> patch to staging.
>
> Anyway, here's the patch, if somebody would please push it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>
>
>
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>
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