Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Jean-Charles Malahieude

Le 10/09/2015 15:00, Peter Bjuhr a écrit :



On 2015-08-26 22:10, Urs Liska wrote:

This thread makes me wonder: what's the average age of LilyPond users
and developers?

Remind me in two weeks and I'll start a poll on Scores of Beauty ...


I send in this reminder not because I'm especially interested in ages,
but it would be interesting to know more about stuff like editor usage
and if LilyPond is used for original compositions or for engraving
existing compositions.



I'm now 54 and I first used LilyPond in 2001 (version 1.3.73 or 84, 
don't remember exactly) for an amateur choir where I sung bass (directed 
by my wife). I re-typed a Te Deum composed by a brother of a sopran, and 
found it fabulous. I prepare material for my wife who is also a music 
teacher (examinations).


With John and Gauvain, we began to translate the web site in 2004 and 
the documentation thereafter.


I'm not a programmer but use a computer since 1985.

Cheers,
Jean-Charles

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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Bockett Hunter
I'm 72.

I started using Lilypond because it's free,
and easy to use for a quick-and-dirty job.

I've continued to use it for its ability to set
Renaissance music: scholarly
appendages to notes, incipits, Petrucci
style breves and longs, indefinite length
terminal longs...

It's a lot better than what I did in the early
70's doing ASCII art for pieces from the
Odhecaton!  From that I moved on to
doing some work with Don Byrd's engraving
program, originally done with a pen and
ink plotter.

Bockett Hunter
Bockett1.Hunter AT gmail . com
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread David Bellows
Urs, I'd still like to see a poll or at least all the answers
collected and analyzed etc.

Me:

46-year-old composer.

I use Lilypond for all my scores. I've used off and on for 10 years(?)
but every day for the past 3 years. I started using it because it was
free, produced excellent scores, and having drunk the LaTeX Koolaid it
seemed like a perfect fit.

I don't have access to any instruments so I compose directly into Lilypond.

I have a massive project in the works
(http://www.platonicmusicengine.com) that uses Lua to generate
Lilypond files.

I use LuaLaTeX to bind my scores together into nice books.

I use emacs for my editor as I'm able to do Lilypond, LaTeX, and Lua
files as well as my website and various other projects in the same
editor.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> Seems I have to chime in instead of preparing a merely statistical poll ...
>
> 42, pianist, musicologist (with half a decade's worth intermezzo of
> electronic music. Unfortunately that was just before my
> Lilypond/programming time, I already had some ideas to try generating
> LilyPond input from PureData improvisations ).
>
> I'm using LilyPond to typeset
> - transpositions from songs I have to play and that are too complex to
> transpose from sight
> - examples and snippets for texts
> - scholarly editions, which is what I'm also working for on a more
> general level.
>
> Unfortunately I don't recall when I first worked with LilyPond and why I
> started looking at it. One reason was definitely that I was frustrated
> with Finale (2001)'s habit of breaking things after the fact. Probably
> the idea of programmatic access also appealed to me already then.
>
> Urs
>
>
> Am 11.09.2015 um 17:27 schrieb Shane Brandes:
>> 41, organist,  composer frequently for the church, sometimes
>> commissioned works for special occasions and sometimes for self
>> amusement. I use LilyPond to set the above, and sometimes to typeset
>> stuff that has survived the ravages of time poorly causing the desire
>> to have a cleaner score to work from. Use Frescobaldi as a front end
>> as the error parser is invaluable. And yes I occasionally compose
>> directly into LilyPond format when pen and paper is a waste of time.
>>
>>
>> Shane
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Wols Lists  wrote:
>>> On 10/09/15 19:59, Tim Reeves wrote:
 Age: 49
 Amateur hornist.
 Typesetting of existing parts, occasionally creating simple exercises,
 fingering charts, etc. Not a regular user, but like to keep up on
 development.
 I use Frescobaldi every time for some time now, and I've been using LP
 for roughly eight years.

>>> Age: fifty-something.
>>> Amateur trombonist
>>> Typesetting and transposing of parts (I mostly play bass clef but can
>>> read treble, but some fellow players only play one or the other, so the
>>> band needs parts in both, and then of course some parts come in tenor
>>> clef :-)
>>> I use a basic editor (kate, pfe, notepad).
>>> I've been using lily since 2.4 and have made the odd contribution.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Wol
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Paul Scott
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 08:12:41PM +0200, Jean-Charles Malahieude wrote:
> Le 10/09/2015 15:00, Peter Bjuhr a écrit :
> >
> >
> >On 2015-08-26 22:10, Urs Liska wrote:
> >>>This thread makes me wonder: what's the average age of LilyPond users
> >>>and developers?
> >>Remind me in two weeks and I'll start a poll on Scores of Beauty ...
> >
> >I send in this reminder not because I'm especially interested in ages,
> >but it would be interesting to know more about stuff like editor usage
> >and if LilyPond is used for original compositions or for engraving
> >existing compositions.
> >

I am 73.  I have used Lily on Debian Linux since the early 2000s.  I enter
music with Emacs.  I use Make to keep scores and parts updated.

I reorganize and/or recopy parts for orchestra, band, jazz band and
pit bands.  Sometimes because parts are hard to read or don't
provide enough cues or because players in the pit can't play the
doubles required.

I once with help did an entire concerto when the rental agent didn't
deliver the parts on time.

Paul




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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Urs Liska


Am 11.09.2015 um 20:17 schrieb David Bellows:
> Urs, I'd still like to see a poll or at least all the answers
> collected and analyzed etc.

I didn't intend to drop that poll idea.
But I find this thread very interesting and also touching, and it should
not be just buried in the mailing list archive. We should let it fade
out and then see if we can give it a decent place somewhere.

Urs

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[OT] gmail: not able to paste code

2015-09-11 Thread Thomas Morley
Hi all,

right now I'm not able to copy/paste code from jEdit into a mail.

I'm using gmail on Ubuntu 14.04

Can somebody confirm?
Or ever heard of?


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Michael Hendry
I’m a 68 year-old retired GP.

I took up guitar aged 15, playing folk and rock stuff by ear, although I had 
learned piano long enough in primary school to know what a staff looked like, 
and I played in folk clubs and bands until medicine took over.

After a long career break(!), I took up guitar again when I retired, and went 
through a part-time jazz course at St Andrews University. Local musicians I 
play with tend to use Band-in-a-Box for lead-sheets, but this didn’t work for 
the course’s solo transcriptions, and essays which required notation mixed in 
with the text.

I tried Sibelius, but was frustrated by the lack of transparency in what it did 
(a simple modification tended to have hard-to-eradicate side-effects), and I 
discovered LilyPond.

Having a hobbyist interest in electronics, I encountered microprocessors in the 
1970s, and built a couple of kit computers in the late seventies and early 
eighties, acquiring some programming experience in hand-assembly, assembler, 
BASIC and Pascal in the eighties, and with C in the nineties.

My requirements of Lilypond are minimal in comparison to the professionals on 
the list, and such challenges as I’ve put to the list appear to have been 
solved within minutes by the experts!

As a poor reader, I’m grateful for the MIDI facility which helps me proof-read 
my puny and time-consuming efforts at transcription.

It strikes me that Lilypond appeals to programmers who do a bit of music and 
musicians who do a bit of programming - I’ve struggled to “sell” it to 
musicians who aren’t into programming.

Michael
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Re: [OT] gmail: not able to paste code

2015-09-11 Thread Thomas Morley
2015-09-11 23:59 GMT+02:00 Thomas Morley :
> 2015-09-11 23:36 GMT+02:00 Thomas Morley :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> right now I'm not able to copy/paste code from jEdit into a mail.
>>
>> I'm using gmail on Ubuntu 14.04
>
> 64-bit (the host)
> $ uname -a
> Linux kasten 3.13.0-63-generic #103-Ubuntu SMP Fri Aug 14 21:42:59 UTC
> 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> hermann@kasten:~$ jedit -version
> jEdit 5.1.0
>
>
> Does not work for LilyDev3 either
> harm@debian ~$ uname -a
> Linux debian 3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 i686 GNU/Linux
>
> $ jedit -version
> jEdit 4.5.2
>
>
> c/p from gedit works
>
>
>
>>
>> Can somebody confirm?
>> Or ever heard of?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>   Harm

well, I'm completely blocked on my usual workflow

and I'll not start writing in jEdit, c/p into gedit, c/p into mail

I need a break and some beer
likely some more of that

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Re: [OT] gmail: not able to paste code

2015-09-11 Thread Thomas Morley
2015-09-11 23:36 GMT+02:00 Thomas Morley :
> Hi all,
>
> right now I'm not able to copy/paste code from jEdit into a mail.
>
> I'm using gmail on Ubuntu 14.04

64-bit (the host)
$ uname -a
Linux kasten 3.13.0-63-generic #103-Ubuntu SMP Fri Aug 14 21:42:59 UTC
2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

hermann@kasten:~$ jedit -version
jEdit 5.1.0


Does not work for LilyDev3 either
harm@debian ~$ uname -a
Linux debian 3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 i686 GNU/Linux

$ jedit -version
jEdit 4.5.2


c/p from gedit works



>
> Can somebody confirm?
> Or ever heard of?
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm

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vertical kerning problem

2015-09-11 Thread Mike Solomon
Hey all,

I have a nasty vertical kerning issue where the mezzo forte above the tenor’s 
“off” is sandwiched between the lyrics “Oz.” and “to” in the alto.  Does anyone 
know how to force the dynamics (and therefore the tenor staff) below the lyrics 
in this case?

Cheers,
MS


PastedGraphic-2.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Fwd: Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Urs Liska
I assume this was intended for the list.


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Martin Tarenskeen 
Gesendet: 11. September 2015 23:09:32 MESZ
An: Urs Liska 
Betreff: Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages


> But I find this thread very interesting and also touching, and it should
> not be just buried in the mailing list archive. We should let it fade
> out and then see if we can give it a decent place somewhere.

I guess it's time to react to this thread that I originally started 
myself :-)

I'm 54. I don't remember when I started using LilyPond exactly, but it 
must be since 5 years or so. I have also used other text-based score 
programs like abcm2ps and mup, and occasionally I still use them. But 
LilyPond is my first choice.

I teach piano and have pupils from age 3 to 80.
I do much (re-)arrangements or transcription from existing works, for 
educational purposes. I did do original compositions in the past, and plan 
to do more of that in the future if time allows.

I use Vim or Frescobaldi to edit my scores. 
I sometimes write my own python or sh scripts to organise scores and 
parts.

-- 

MT

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.___
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Re: Denemo

2015-09-11 Thread Richard Shann
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 14:45 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:10:21 +0100
> Richard Shann  wrote:
> 
> > The distros only give very out-of-date versions, there is a link on the
> > denemo.org website to modern ones:
> 
> Just a nitpick: This gives me 1.2.2 while 1.2.4 has been out for a while.

Thanks for alerting me to this - I contacted the author and he has
kicked off a new build.

Richard


> -- Johan
> 
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Re: [OT] gmail: not able to paste code

2015-09-11 Thread Nick Payne

On 12/09/2015 07:59, Thomas Morley wrote:

2015-09-11 23:36 GMT+02:00 Thomas Morley :

Hi all,

right now I'm not able to copy/paste code from jEdit into a mail.

I'm using gmail on Ubuntu 14.04

64-bit (the host)
$ uname -a
Linux kasten 3.13.0-63-generic #103-Ubuntu SMP Fri Aug 14 21:42:59 UTC
2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

hermann@kasten:~$ jedit -version
jEdit 5.1.0


Does not work for LilyDev3 either
harm@debian ~$ uname -a
Linux debian 3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u3 i686 GNU/Linux

$ jedit -version
jEdit 4.5.2


c/p from gedit works


Sorry, can't test, as I am travelling with only a Windows laptop at the 
moment. But which JVM are you using? Oracle Java, or OpenJDK?


Nick

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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Kim Shrier
I’m 60 and I program for a living.

I have been using lilypond almost from the time it first came out.
I mainly use it for typesetting medieval and renaissance music,
sometimes from original notation or for re-typsetting poorly
typeset editions.

I have contributed some minor enhancements and bug fixes
when I first started using lilypond but nothing lately.

I use emacs for music entry and manage my music projects
using the fossil source control system and the mk make command
from Plan 9.

I used to use Calliope on the NeXT machine before I discovered
lilypond.  Tried Finale and Sibelius but I really prefer the text entry
and quality of lilypond. 

Kim Shrier


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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Jonathan Webster
So far, in the small, non-random sample we have, it looks like the 
average user's age is somewhere around 60. I guess you can teach old 
dogs new tricks! ;)



OK, I'm 77.   I use Lilypond only to engrave fiddle tunes for my own use.
Be well,
Jonathan



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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread William Marchant
I am 84.   Wrote my first programme in 1965.  Didn't keep it up because 
I wasn't fast enough to earn money at it.


Did some Pascal programming later.  Interesting utilities, now all out 
of date.


Started using Lilypond and Frescobaldi about nine months ago on ubuntu. 
  I make music sheets for our trio.  Mouth organ - Me, and a piano and 
guitar.  Lots of fun.


Lots of good help on this forum.  I couldn't do without it.
Bill

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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Colin Campbell

On 2015-09-11 06:17 PM, Tim Reeves wrote:



So far, in the small, non-random sample we have, it looks like the 
average user's age is somewhere around 60. I guess you can teach old 
dogs new tricks! ;)





It has been said that the way to avoid becoming an old dog is to keep 
learning new tricks! I'm 63, and have recently  been  accepted as a 
first year apprentice carpenter, after 40 years in financial reporting 
and accounting. I discovered LilyPond well over 10 years ago, using it 
in support of the various choirs in which I sing bass and tenor. I've 
also been glad of the opportunity to put something back by helping where 
I can, lately on the Bug Squad.


Cheers,
Colin

--
I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both 
hands.
You need to be able to throw something back.
-Maya Angelou, poet (1928-2014 )

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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Tim Reeves
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 22:22:45 +0200
> From: Urs Liska 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages
> Message-ID: <55f33815.40...@openlilylib.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> 
> 
> Am 11.09.2015 um 20:17 schrieb David Bellows:
> > Urs, I'd still like to see a poll or at least all the answers
> > collected and analyzed etc.
> 
> I didn't intend to drop that poll idea.
> But I find this thread very interesting and also touching, and it should
> not be just buried in the mailing list archive. We should let it fade
> out and then see if we can give it a decent place somewhere.
> 
> Urs
> 


So far, in the small, non-random sample we have, it looks like the average 
user's age is somewhere around 60. I guess you can teach old dogs new 
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Brett Duncan

I'm a 48 year old school teacher (Mathematics and Computing).

I'm also the pianist in a jazz ensemble, which is what keeps me using 
Lilypond - re-scoring pieces for which we have mainly hand-written 
scores (some of them atrociously scribbled down).


I used to mainly use jEdit/LilyPondTool, but now I'm using Frescobaldi.

I've tried converting the Music teachers at my school to Lilypond, but 
sadly they are welded to Sibelius.


Brett

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Re: mixed \time

2015-09-11 Thread BB

Indeed my starting point was
 
<%3CURL:http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation%3E>

In reality I did not mix \time, but changed the code for the question.

The original code was/is

%%%

\version "2.19.0"

#(set-global-staff-size 22)

\layout {

\context {

\Score

%\remove "Timing_translator"

\remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"

}

}

\new Staff {

%\key c \major

\relative c'

{

<>^"penatonic scale"

f4-"f" g4-"g" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f"

\bar "||"

f-"f" d-"d" c-"c" bes-"bes" g-"g" f-"f"

\bar "||"

}

}

\new Staff {

%\key c \major

\relative c'

{

<>^"penatonic scale + blue note b5"

f4-"f" g4-"g" b-"b" bes-"bes" c-"c" d-"d" f-"f"

\bar "||"

f-"f" d-"d" c-"c" b-"b" bes-"bes" g-"g" f-"f"

\bar "||"

}

} 

I tried different combinations for \layout{} from 
 
<%3CURL:http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation%3E> 
did it again, but I always get unwanted double bars.


I expect one double bar in the middle and one at the end.

Regards



On 10.09.2015 15:28, David Kastrup wrote:

BB  writes:


I tried sommething strange. I tried to mix tempo 4/4 and 6/8 in one
score. I had no success as only the last defined tempo will be used.

LilyPond comes with a manual, and polymetric notation is dealt with
exactly where you'd expect it to be.





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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Wols Lists
On 10/09/15 19:59, Tim Reeves wrote:
> Age: 49
> Amateur hornist.
> Typesetting of existing parts, occasionally creating simple exercises,
> fingering charts, etc. Not a regular user, but like to keep up on
> development.
> I use Frescobaldi every time for some time now, and I've been using LP
> for roughly eight years.
> 
Age: fifty-something.
Amateur trombonist
Typesetting and transposing of parts (I mostly play bass clef but can
read treble, but some fellow players only play one or the other, so the
band needs parts in both, and then of course some parts come in tenor
clef :-)
I use a basic editor (kate, pfe, notepad).
I've been using lily since 2.4 and have made the odd contribution.

Cheers,
Wol


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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Trevor Daniels

PMA wrote Thursday, September 10, 2015 7:21 PM


> PMA wrote:
>> Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
>>> This thread makes me wonder: what's the average age of LilyPond users
>>> and developers?
>
> Better answer -- My age is 75.

At 74 I thought I might be the oldest user/developer, but it seems I'm not.

I use LilyPond with Frescobaldi mainly for generating tailored vocal scores for 
my village choir, sometimes transcribed, sometimes (re-) arranged; very 
occasionally originated.
Although a relatively seasoned user (since 2008), doc writer and occasional 
developer, I find the built-in templates so quick and easy for the vocal scores 
I set that I use them all the time.

Trevor
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Shane Brandes
41, organist,  composer frequently for the church, sometimes
commissioned works for special occasions and sometimes for self
amusement. I use LilyPond to set the above, and sometimes to typeset
stuff that has survived the ravages of time poorly causing the desire
to have a cleaner score to work from. Use Frescobaldi as a front end
as the error parser is invaluable. And yes I occasionally compose
directly into LilyPond format when pen and paper is a waste of time.


Shane


On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Wols Lists  wrote:
> On 10/09/15 19:59, Tim Reeves wrote:
>> Age: 49
>> Amateur hornist.
>> Typesetting of existing parts, occasionally creating simple exercises,
>> fingering charts, etc. Not a regular user, but like to keep up on
>> development.
>> I use Frescobaldi every time for some time now, and I've been using LP
>> for roughly eight years.
>>
> Age: fifty-something.
> Amateur trombonist
> Typesetting and transposing of parts (I mostly play bass clef but can
> read treble, but some fellow players only play one or the other, so the
> band needs parts in both, and then of course some parts come in tenor
> clef :-)
> I use a basic editor (kate, pfe, notepad).
> I've been using lily since 2.4 and have made the odd contribution.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

2015-09-11 Thread Urs Liska
Seems I have to chime in instead of preparing a merely statistical poll ...

42, pianist, musicologist (with half a decade's worth intermezzo of
electronic music. Unfortunately that was just before my
Lilypond/programming time, I already had some ideas to try generating
LilyPond input from PureData improvisations ).

I'm using LilyPond to typeset
- transpositions from songs I have to play and that are too complex to
transpose from sight
- examples and snippets for texts
- scholarly editions, which is what I'm also working for on a more
general level.

Unfortunately I don't recall when I first worked with LilyPond and why I
started looking at it. One reason was definitely that I was frustrated
with Finale (2001)'s habit of breaking things after the fact. Probably
the idea of programmatic access also appealed to me already then.

Urs


Am 11.09.2015 um 17:27 schrieb Shane Brandes:
> 41, organist,  composer frequently for the church, sometimes
> commissioned works for special occasions and sometimes for self
> amusement. I use LilyPond to set the above, and sometimes to typeset
> stuff that has survived the ravages of time poorly causing the desire
> to have a cleaner score to work from. Use Frescobaldi as a front end
> as the error parser is invaluable. And yes I occasionally compose
> directly into LilyPond format when pen and paper is a waste of time.
>
>
> Shane
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Wols Lists  wrote:
>> On 10/09/15 19:59, Tim Reeves wrote:
>>> Age: 49
>>> Amateur hornist.
>>> Typesetting of existing parts, occasionally creating simple exercises,
>>> fingering charts, etc. Not a regular user, but like to keep up on
>>> development.
>>> I use Frescobaldi every time for some time now, and I've been using LP
>>> for roughly eight years.
>>>
>> Age: fifty-something.
>> Amateur trombonist
>> Typesetting and transposing of parts (I mostly play bass clef but can
>> read treble, but some fellow players only play one or the other, so the
>> band needs parts in both, and then of course some parts come in tenor
>> clef :-)
>> I use a basic editor (kate, pfe, notepad).
>> I've been using lily since 2.4 and have made the odd contribution.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
>>
>>
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