Re: simple question 1 where's the pdf for all the manuals for 2.22? a better response I hope more polite

[Aaron Hill]

On 2021-08-02 5:44 pm, jh wrote:

Carl - that works fine for the notation but with 2.18 I have all the
information in one huge pdf.  This doesn't work at all with 2.22 the
only pdf that seems available is the one you directed to me but going
to the bottom of any other subject doesn't show a pdf and in fact
there is a confusing line that says go back to the main page for docs.

So the impolite question was 'really' but actually I'd rather actually
have the pdf that I'm used to/need.  This is not that.
thanks for the help.


To my knowledge, there has never been a single PDF containing all the 
manuals.  Of course, you could download each individual PDF and manually 
stitch them together; but that might cause problems for the table of 
contents and inter-document links.


The PDFs are, admittedly, a little hidden when you come from the main 
manuals page [1].  You need to click on the parenthetical "details" link 
for each section, which then will give you the link to its PDF.  Once 
you are on one of these pages, there is a banner with links to the other 
details pages.


[1]: http://lilypond.org/manuals.html


-- Aaron Hill

Re: simple question 1 where's the pdf for all the manuals for 2.22? a better response I hope more polite

[David Wright]

On Mon 02 Aug 2021 at 18:44:10 (-0600), jh wrote:
> Carl - that works fine for the notation but with 2.18 I have all the
> information in one huge pdf.  This doesn't work at all with 2.22 the
> only pdf that seems available is the one you directed to me but going
> to the bottom of any other subject doesn't show a pdf and in fact
> there is a confusing line that says go back to the main page for docs.
> 
> So the impolite question was 'really' but actually I'd rather actually
> have the pdf that I'm used to/need.  This is not that.
> thanks for the help.

If bandwidth isn't an issue, you can download "the lot" from
https://lilypond.org/download/binaries/documentation/

The PDFs are a little unusually placed in the archive, under
share/doc/lilypond/html/Documentation/

Multiple languages in multiple formats for "every" version.

Cheers,
David.

Re: simple question 1 where's the pdf for all the manuals for 2.22? a better response I hope more polite

[jh]

Carl - that works fine for the notation but with 2.18 I have all the 
information in one huge pdf.  This doesn't work at all with 2.22 the 
only pdf that seems available is the one you directed to me but going to 
the bottom of any other subject doesn't show a pdf and in fact there is 
a confusing line that says go back to the main page for docs.


So the impolite question was 'really' but actually I'd rather actually 
have the pdf that I'm used to/need.  This is not that.

thanks for the help.
Jay

On 2021-08-02 17:15, Carl Sorensen wrote:

On 8/2/21, 5:12 PM, "lilypond-user on behalf of jh"
 wrote:

I can easily find the manual html page but the machine I use lily 
on is
not online and so I depend on the PDf or have depended on it for 
2.18

but there seems to be no link for the pdf on the manuals page?
thank you

As mentioned in the text on the bottom of the manuals page, click on
the "details of notation" link to be able to download a pdf copy of
the Notation Reference.  Similarly for Usage and Internals.

Here's a page that will let you download the Notation Reference.

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/web/notation

Carl

Re: simple question 1 where's the pdf for all the manuals for 2.22?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 8/2/21, 5:12 PM, "lilypond-user on behalf of jh" 
 wrote:

I can easily find the manual html page but the machine I use lily on is 
not online and so I depend on the PDf or have depended on it for 2.18
but there seems to be no link for the pdf on the manuals page?
thank you

As mentioned in the text on the bottom of the manuals page, click on the 
"details of notation" link to be able to download a pdf copy of the Notation 
Reference.  Similarly for Usage and Internals.

Here's a page that will let you download the Notation Reference.

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/web/notation

Carl
 

simple question 1 where's the pdf for all the manuals for 2.22?

[jh]

I can easily find the manual html page but the machine I use lily on is 
not online and so I depend on the PDf or have depended on it for 2.18

but there seems to be no link for the pdf on the manuals page?
thank you

--
Thank you Sound & Silence

Beginning May 1, 2021 a new address; 1814 Lake Washington Blvd. So.,
Seattle, Wa. 98144

_206-328-7694 or messages at 206-308-8189_

www.soundand.com

and an online short (45 minute) concert of new material on Wayward in 
Limbo



https://www.waywardmusic.org/?p=6082

I am looking for 2-3 dancers various abilities/disciplines for a piece
Called The Box it was scheduled for November  but we know how that has
gone. However I am interested in making videos of the moves and having
dancers work on them and the music before we can get into the same
room... Paid rehearsals and the door divided evenly by participants.
Spread the word please.

Fwd: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Sorry, keep forgetting to "reply-all"...
-- Forwarded message -
From: Kees van den Doel 
Date: Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Persian music package
To: Thomas Morley 


Too many things wrong with that, starting with missing sori symbol, wrong
koron symbol in key signature.
 'v' should affect only MIDI etc. The example mehr.ly  in the example/ in
my zip file is a better test, shur.ly I just posted to illustrate unmetered
notes.

Cheers,
Kees
Kees

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:10 AM Thomas Morley 
wrote:

> Am So., 1. Aug. 2021 um 20:13 Uhr schrieb Kees van den Doel <
> kvd...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 10:40 AM Kees van den Doel 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 2:29 AM Thomas Morley 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Furthermore I'd replace the override for Accidental.extra-offset by:
> >>> \override Accidental.Y-offset =
> >>
> >>
> >> Typo I assume and you mean "\override Accidental.extra-offset ="?
> >>
> >>>
> >>>   #(lambda (grob)
> >>>   (cdr
> >>> (assoc-get
> >>>   (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
> >>>   persianStringsOffsets)))
> >>>
> >> That doesn't work because now you take the cdr twice. I think
> (assoc-get ... is the same as (cdr (assoc .. isn't it?
> >> But assoc-get without cdr is nicer of course, didn't know about that.
> >
> >
> > No that doesn't work, I must not understand something. Can you explain
> why you suggest the change? If I keep the cdr as in your example it runs
> but  offsets are no longer right.  It works fine with assoc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Kees
>
> Well, I overlooked you defined an alist for use with extra-offset,
> requiring pairs. Whereas I proposed not to move accidentals in X-axis,
> but only in Y-axis direction. Thus Y-offset requiring only a number.
>
> Alas, I feel it's all a bit clumsy, instead I followed Hans advice to
> use smufl-glyphs.
> A _partial_ and basic rewrite of your persian.ly is attached (with
> examples).
> I use stuff from
>
> https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-music-fonts/smufl/definitions.ily
> and
>
> https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-music-fonts/smufl/smufldata.ily
>
> You will need the Bravura-font, downlaodable at:
> http://www.smufl.org/fonts/
> (put it in lilypond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf/)
> and the mapping file smufldata.ily, attached as well.
>
> Hope I didn't forget anything.
> If anything is not working it may be not implemented yet...
> If so (or a different problem), please post the failing example as a
> compilable ly-file
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm
>

Re: oldie/newbie convert/fresco question

[Jean Abou Samra]

Hi Jay,

Le 02/08/2021 à 15:50, jh a écrit :

Hello-
Jean, I think you clarified a few things. 1] I don't need online 
connection, 2] that the Fresco button is merely a GUI, 3] you thought 
I was using a terminal which I am not so during the ongoing-forever 
attempt there was no error/message it just ran,



Oh, I didn't, telling about the terminal was essentially
illustrative (but it could also assist debugging).
When you run convert-ly in Frescobaldi, the log
from convert-ly is printed. For example, deliberately
introducing an infinite loop in the conversion rule
for version 2.23.4, I get the log in this screenshot,
which shows the conversion is hanging on 2.23.4:





So where does it stop for you? Does this happen on
all files? If not, could you send an example file
where the program never finishes?

If it does not print any output at all, something
is going wrong with the OS as David mentioned.
If there is some kind of output, it could be something
else (like, technically speaking, a regular expression
with catastrophic backtracking).


4] Fresco does update individual files to newest version but it does 
not change the format/layout that i am familiar with in 2.18 which is 
very confusing as all the latest examples of ly questions are totally 
foreign to me.
This is the part that where you ask if documentation should be clearer 
is a problem.
The changes of where information goes after 2.18 made/make little 
sense to me as the 2.18 ways worked for a very long time and to change 
them without any ability to understand the why of the change 
(sometimes that explanation was 'better coding' but since I am not a 
coder doesn't mean anything/is not an explanation that tells me the 
how or why; and perhaps means I am not to understand) and after years 
of using lily it felt like I was going to have to start completely over.



Could you give examples? Usually, LilyPond contributors
try not to break existing functionality when adding new
functionality. Of course, some amount of breakage is
occasionally necessary, but convert-ly typically does
a good job (ok, you have not been able to run it yet)
and the necessary manual changes are few. So the changes
are supposed to extend the range of what you can do
with LilyPond without hampering your existing uses.

When you say "format/layout", do you mean the layout of
the code (indentation etc.) or the layout of the printed
music?


Since 2.18 worked fine starting over seemed/seems not an option.  I 
like many am a working composer. The time I spent learning (still 
learning) how to use the program to do what I wanted to do took a few 
years and as I say I am still learning to do it with the older 
version.  To get work done after the pencil work at an instrument it 
always was more efficient to stay with what I knew, that worked, than 
to spend time unproductively relearning for the same result.
I am going on too long but most of the questions I read about are very 
very technical and not in my range of needs.  So again the urge to 
change is diminished.


Thank you for clarifying the online not online question, I am fearful 
since I will be using the new version that I will not understand the 
why or even the how to layout lily that I will be back with absurdly 
simple questions but also hope this will not be the case.


Feel free -- there are no dumb questions on
this list!

Best,
Jean

Re: oldie/newbie convert/fresco question

[jh]

Hello-
Jean, I think you clarified a few things. 1] I don't need online 
connection, 2] that the Fresco button is merely a GUI, 3] you thought I 
was using a terminal which I am not so during the ongoing-forever 
attempt there was no error/message it just ran, 4] Fresco does update 
individual files to newest version but it does not change the 
format/layout that i am familiar with in 2.18 which is very confusing as 
all the latest examples of ly questions are totally foreign to me.
This is the part that where you ask if documentation should be clearer 
is a problem.
The changes of where information goes after 2.18 made/make little sense 
to me as the 2.18 ways worked for a very long time and to change them 
without any ability to understand the why of the change (sometimes that 
explanation was 'better coding' but since I am not a coder doesn't mean 
anything/is not an explanation that tells me the how or why; and perhaps 
means I am not to understand) and after years of using lily it felt like 
I was going to have to start completely over.
Since 2.18 worked fine starting over seemed/seems not an option.  I like 
many am a working composer.  The time I spent learning (still learning) 
how to use the program to do what I wanted to do took a few years and as 
I say I am still learning to do it with the older version.  To get work 
done after the pencil work at an instrument it always was more efficient 
to stay with what I knew, that worked, than to spend time unproductively 
relearning for the same result.
I am going on too long but most of the questions I read about are very 
very technical and not in my range of needs.  So again the urge to 
change is diminished.


Thank you for clarifying the online not online question, I am fearful 
since I will be using the new version that I will not understand the why 
or even the how to layout lily that I will be back with absurdly simple 
questions but also hope this will not be the case.

thanks
Jay

On 2021-08-01 10:28, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

Hello Jay,

Sorry for the previous message, obviously sent
by accident!


Le 01/08/2021 à 18:10, jh a écrit :


A while back David K kept on trying to get me to update beyond 2.18.2 
even though I said I'd failed a number of times and that many of the 
changes between these versions seem opaque to me.




Well, what changes between 2.18 and 2.22 seem
opaque to you? If some entries in the Changes
document are not understandable by users, that
should be fixed.



My main text editor has developed a major crash where it freezes 
everything and the creator is unable to fix it.
I have rarely used Frescobaldi because generally everything has worked 
but when stymied it has helped in the past to find my mistake.
So I decided to default to it. Noticed that it has a convert ly tool 
tried it.



Do note that the convert-ly tool is provided
by LilyPond and thus dependent on the version
of LilyPond. Frescobaldi merely gives you a
GUI button to run it. You could also run it
using the command line. The Application Usage
manual explains how to do this.

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/usage/invoking-convert_002dly


This machine is generally not online; the convert tool ran for 4 hours 
and nothing changed.  I gave in and went online and the tool does 
work.


1] it seems that this will not work if unconnected to the internet.  
My notation win10 is not connected for various reasons and just as I 
have had issues with updating versions to lily I have even connected 
to the internet am unable to update win10 which is fine- sort of.

but
2] if convert ly requires internet connection I'm kind of stuck 
because win10 did not allow (or didn't tell me how to have two 
versions of lily on my machine.  So I downloaded the current version 
uninstalled 2.18 and installed the current version 22.something.

so
Must I be online in order to access my thousand of pieces (my 
compositions) written in everything from 1.? and 2.18? to get this to 
work or is there more than another way?


convert-ly ships with LilyPond with all conversion rules
built in and does not access the Net in any way. The
problem must be elsewhere.

When you say that convert-ly hung, what did it print on
the command line?


I'm kind of hoping this is the right place to ask this as it is 
connected to Frescobaldi but seems to me to be a lily question.


Yes, it is the right place.

Best regards,
Jean

Re: Transform notes in a variable?

[Craig Comstock]

> mappingOne = {   }
> mappingTwo = {   }
> 
> music = { c' d' e' }
> 
> \transformPitches \mappingOne \music
> \transformPitches \mappingTwo \music

This is exactly what I needed.
Once again I am impressed by the generosity of your time.

> Since you seem interested by the Scheme level,

Yes, and your seeming ease of generating the right code is making me doubt my 
not learning lisp/scheme more deeply. Will have to consider that for another 
time as I must write this music immediately. ;) (performance October 2nd, 
rehearsals start August 17th.)

Much thanks,
Craig

Re: Transform notes in a variable?

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le 02/08/2021 à 11:25, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :

Like this perhaps? The mapping is defined in chords,
internally converted to an alist. It just seemed easier
to input {  } than #`((#{ c' #} . #{ d' #})).


Sorry, I meant:

#`((,#{ c' #} . ,#{ d' #}))

Jean

Re: Problem

[Jacques Menu]

An Mac .app bundle is self-contained, with everything it needs inside it. 
That’s why you can place anywhere in your files hierarchy and there can’t be 
conflicts with other applications, including other versions of the same .app. 

In particular, the LilyPond .app bundle contains the python version to be used 
with it:
jacquesmenu@macmini: ~ > ls -sal 
/Applications/LilyPondWithLilyjazzFont.app/Contents/MacOS
total 248
  0 drwxr-xr-x@  4 jacquesmenu  admin128 Feb 12  2017 .
  0 drwxr-xr-x@ 18 jacquesmenu  admin576 Jun 27  2017 ..
184 -rwxr-xr-x@  1 jacquesmenu  admin  92080 Feb 12  2017 LilyPond
 64 -rwxr-xr-x@  1 jacquesmenu  admin  29564 Feb 12  2017 python

I didn’t know, though, that moving it other that with the Finder (in the 
terminal with mv, for example) would raise issues in the recent, 64 bit only OS 
versions.

The LilyPond executable inside it can be launched thru its access path and used 
in Frescobaldi… provided it can run on the given architecture:

jacquesmenu@macmini: ~ > 
/Applications/LilyPondWithLilyjazzFont.app/Contents/MacOS/LilyPond 
-bash: /Applications/LilyPondWithLilyjazzFont.app/Contents/MacOS/LilyPond: Bad 
CPU type in executable

I currently use this version, which is not part of any .app bundle:

jacquesmenu@macmini: ~ > type lilypond
lilypond is /opt/local/bin/lilypond

jacquesmenu@macmini: ~ > lilypond --version
GNU LilyPond 2.22.1

Copyright (c) 1996--2021 by
  Han-Wen Nienhuys 
  Jan Nieuwenhuizen 
  and others.

This program is free software.  It is covered by the GNU General Public
License and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it
under certain conditions.  Invoke as `lilypond --warranty' for more
information.

JM

> Le 2 août 2021 à 08:35, Jonas Hahnfeld via LilyPond user discussion 
>  a écrit :
> 
> Am Sonntag, dem 01.08.2021 um 20:53 + schrieb Carl Sorensen:
>> 
>> On 8/1/21, 10:21 AM, "lilypond-devel on behalf of Jonas Hahnfeld via 
>> Discussions on LilyPond development" 
>> > of lilypond-de...@gnu.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> For me, personally, I'd prefer to see us follow up with either Marnen's or 
>>> Jaques's work (they may actually be very similar -- I'm not sure) so we can 
>>> get installable .app bundles, not just installed binaries.  Installable app 
>>> bundles make it very easy to use different versions of LilyPond in 
>>> Frescobaldi.
>> 
>>Can you explain? Just extracting different versions of the binaries
>>produced by the above system will work just fine. IIRC you only need to
>>adjust the paths in Frescobaldi, right?
>> 
>> I suppose that I can have different name binaries in my bin folder, with a 
>> different name for each version.  As far as I know the binaries are 
>> generally installed to some folder other than Applications (I don't remember 
>> where it ended up when I tested it.
> 
> Ok, would be interesting to know...
> 
>> With the app bundle, I can rename the app bundle, and all of the necessary 
>> bin files are in each .app bundle.  I don't have to worry about what is the 
>> appropriate system path.  It's possible that it's no more difficult with 
>> your binaries, rather than the .app bundles.  It's just not my standard 
>> process.  GUB produces .app bundles, so that's what I'm used to using.
> 
> You should be able to unpack the binaries to different directories, and
> use them in parallel as you wish.
> 
>> The other thing that I thought tha .app bundles provided is built-in proper 
>> versions of all the necessary utilities, so I don't need to worry about 
>> clashes with improper versions of utilities.  I haven't actually run into 
>> any problems with clashes, but I also haven't tried multiple lilypond 
>> binaries with different names on my system -- I've just used different app 
>> bundles.
> 
> I would claim it's even less error-prone with the way I'm proposing
> because everything is statically linked, so you can never run into the
> problem that one version of LilyPond finds a library from another
> version.
> 
>> I'm an old dog, but not so old that I can't learn new tricks.  Maybe I just 
>> need to learn new tricks and your method is perfectly sufficient.  If so, 
>> please let me know.
> 
> Feel free to try the current proof-of-concept, the overall idea of the
> approach has worked on all systems that I tested so far.
> 
> Jonas
> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Carl

Re: Transform notes in a variable?

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le 02/08/2021 à 02:27, Craig Comstock a écrit :
Related to my other question of note names I am wondering if it is 
possible to maybe write a mapping function of some sort for pitches?


I know there is transpose like shown here: 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/web/text-input 



\transpose f c' \hornNotes

What I need, I think, is a way to write a “riff” let’s say and then 
transform it differently for different parts/instruments each of which 
would have a static mapping from the notes in the riff to the notes in 
the different parts.


\version "2.20.0"
riff = { c' r d' r }
<<
  \new Staff \riff
% \new Staff \transformOne \riff
  \new Staff { e' r g'' r }
% \new Staff \transformTwo \riff
  \new Staff { g'' r a'' r }
>>

Where transformOne would map c’ to say e’ and d’ to g’’. TransormTwo 
would map c’ to g’’ and d’ to a’’.


I put what I would like to write in comments and what it would look 
like after.


Writing the mapping function in scheme is fine I suppose. Or maybe 
some data structure like a map given to a single scheme function?





Like this perhaps? The mapping is defined in chords,
internally converted to an alist. It just seemed easier
to input {  } than #`((#{ c' #} . #{ d' #})).

\version "2.22.1"

#(define (chord-as-pitch-pair chord)
   (let ((elements (ly:music-property chord 'elements)))
 (if (eqv? 2 (length elements))
 (cons (ly:music-property (first elements)
  'pitch)
   (ly:music-property (second elements)
  'pitch))
 (begin
   (ly:music-warning chord "expected two notes")
   (cons #f #f)

transformPitches =
#(define-music-function (mapping music) (ly:music? ly:music?)
   (let* ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music))
  (chords (extract-typed-music mapping 'event-chord))
  (alist (map chord-as-pitch-pair chords)))
 (for-some-music
   (lambda (m)
 (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch #f)))
   (if pitch
   (let ((new-pitch (assoc-ref alist pitch)))
 (set! (ly:music-property m 'pitch)
   (or new-pitch pitch
   #f))
   copy)
 copy))


mappingOne = {   }
mappingTwo = {   }

music = { c' d' e' }

\transformPitches \mappingOne \music
\transformPitches \mappingTwo \music



Since you seem interested by the Scheme level,
here are resources to learn how to program LilyPond:

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/extending/index.html
https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

Best,
Jean

Re: How can I change the width of multi-measure rests in the irregular measure?

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le 02/08/2021 à 03:53, takumi ikeda a écrit :

\version "2.19.81"

{
   \compressFullBarRests
   \set Score.restNumberThreshold = #0
   \time 5/4
   R4*5
   \time 4/4
   R1*2

}

{
   \compressFullBarRests
   \set Score.restNumberThreshold = #0
   \override Staff.MultiMeasureRest.space-increment = 10
   \time 5/4
   R4*5
   \time 4/4
   R1*2
}

% Thanks,
% Takumi



Is this what you are looking after?

{
  \compressEmptyMeasures
  \time 4/4
  \once \override MultiMeasureRest.usable-duration-logs = #'(1)
  R1*2
}

Best,
Jean

Re: Problem

[Jonas Hahnfeld via LilyPond user discussion]

Am Sonntag, dem 01.08.2021 um 20:53 + schrieb Carl Sorensen:
> 
> On 8/1/21, 10:21 AM, "lilypond-devel on behalf of Jonas Hahnfeld via 
> Discussions on LilyPond development" 
>  lilypond-de...@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> > For me, personally, I'd prefer to see us follow up with either Marnen's 
> or Jaques's work (they may actually be very similar -- I'm not sure) so we 
> can get installable .app bundles, not just installed binaries.  Installable 
> app bundles make it very easy to use different versions of LilyPond in 
> Frescobaldi.
> 
> Can you explain? Just extracting different versions of the binaries
> produced by the above system will work just fine. IIRC you only need to
> adjust the paths in Frescobaldi, right?
> 
> I suppose that I can have different name binaries in my bin folder, with a 
> different name for each version.  As far as I know the binaries are generally 
> installed to some folder other than Applications (I don't remember where it 
> ended up when I tested it.

Ok, would be interesting to know...

> With the app bundle, I can rename the app bundle, and all of the necessary 
> bin files are in each .app bundle.  I don't have to worry about what is the 
> appropriate system path.  It's possible that it's no more difficult with your 
> binaries, rather than the .app bundles.  It's just not my standard process.  
> GUB produces .app bundles, so that's what I'm used to using.

You should be able to unpack the binaries to different directories, and
use them in parallel as you wish.

> The other thing that I thought tha .app bundles provided is built-in proper 
> versions of all the necessary utilities, so I don't need to worry about 
> clashes with improper versions of utilities.  I haven't actually run into any 
> problems with clashes, but I also haven't tried multiple lilypond binaries 
> with different names on my system -- I've just used different app bundles.

I would claim it's even less error-prone with the way I'm proposing
because everything is statically linked, so you can never run into the
problem that one version of LilyPond finds a library from another
version.

> I'm an old dog, but not so old that I can't learn new tricks.  Maybe I just 
> need to learn new tricks and your method is perfectly sufficient.  If so, 
> please let me know.

Feel free to try the current proof-of-concept, the overall idea of the
approach has worked on all systems that I tested so far.

Jonas

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Carl


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