Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl wrote: Tab and Shift-tab handle the indent, Ctrl+I inserts a plain Tab. Yeah, I think Ctrl-I as in re-indent the selected part was a LilyPondTool/jEdit thing. Speaking of confusing shortcuts: Ctrl-D used to mean comment this line (that's the default in Kate I think), now it means Delete - I've inadvertently lost a few lines because of that :-) To keep Frescobaldi simple its indenting defaults to the LilyPond-recommended way of indenting. But you can override the behaviour by placing document variables in the document (see manual-editor-document variables). Wow. Wouldn't have thought of that. I put much love in the PDF view to make it better than the old one (I hope ;-) You can copy images: drag a square with the right button or Shift-left button, and then choose Copy to Image in the context menu or the Edit menu. It even copies images in a specified DPI setting, instead of the current scale! You can drag both the image or the image's file, and also specify the antialiasing, background color (which in the Copy to Image dialog defaults to white :-) and whether to auto-crop the image. OK. I had missed the menu entry. And did you notice the magnifying glass? Ctrl+Click in the Music View! I did not. I only used Ctrl-mousewheel (it wouldn't have occured to me ;) The old pdf view did not support finding point and click objects (due to Okular limitations), but the new one has: Ctrl+J highlights the object the text cursor is at. Yes, that must be the most welcome new feature. Plus, since I rarely have a mouse (I'm running ratpoison these days), I've come to realize that Frescobaldi can be easily be controlled with the keyboard only! I tried to make the config pages simple and not too crowded. But I think an 'Editor' page is needed, with settings related to editing behaviour, indenting etc. That's what I'd be expecting to see, indeed. Please take a look at the snippets manager, it is quite powerful and also powers the File-New from template menu. It has support for python scripts as well and some nice default snippets. A larger library could be put on the Frescobaldi website. Yeah, I should consider using it for quick tuplets and stuff. There is: see www.frescobaldi.org/download . The Windows installer works very well! I have no Mac to test and build a Mac installer. But users are using Frescobaldi on Mac OS X and it works. Cool. I hope to see a Mac application available for download soon! Yes there are many French translators, and I can't see which which translations are the best. It would be nice if someone with good understanding of LilyPond and Frescobaldi and translating desktop applications could 'govern' the French translation :-) Well, I'd be happy to :-) Keep up the good work! Cheers, V. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com wrote: I think this is a matter of default settings and easily adjustable. It probably is (not sure about the PDF background, though); I was just testifying about the first-look appearance, with default colors. Ctrl+H or Edit- Replace Indeed. Since it wasn't to be found where I was used to, I overlooked it. (It's Ctrl-R on my distro.) Well there is a terminal in tools menu. Ditto. (Still can't find it in 2.0.2, it must be a recent addition.) It is, go to LilyPond Preferences and set Save If Possible. Oh, yet another thing Wilbert had already thought of. (I had seen this option but didn't quite understand it before.) - the PDF preview offers less features than before (thanks to the kpdf component I could just select an area with the right-button and copy it as an image). I can do that with current version. I stand corrected. (I guess I hadn't even tried as soon as I saw it wasn't KDE's PDF component anymore...) Are we talking about the same program? There's been a Windows port for a time now. I gave a talk for my colleagues and installed Fresco+Lily in minutes for all. Nice. (Wilbert should definitely provide self-contained Lily+Fresco bundles, that has the potential to be a huge success!) Okay then, I guess I'll have to go and write a new review for the LilyReport :-) Thanks for your reply, Valentin. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
2012/3/14 Valentin Villenave valen...@villenave.net: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com wrote: I think this is a matter of default settings and easily adjustable. It probably is (not sure about the PDF background, though); Attached. :-) -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com attachment: fresco-pink.png___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl wrote: Please let me know the things you miss most! Note that F2 is only (roughly) one year old and really written from scratch, the first commit is of Nov 11, 2012. I intend to keep developing and adding new features. I think the current technical infrastructure and code setup is very nice. I miss: - superb look of the previous version. It was really pro and when i saw it i instantly knew that Frescobaldi is a great tool. Not every program is a joy to /look at/ :) - tabs on sides and bottom - it would be great to combine tabs and movable frames. I also liked menu layout a lot (i fell in love with Frescobaldi when i wanted to change something and went straightly to Settings-Configure Frescobaldi-the thing i wanted. It was uber cool and fully intuitive; much better than LilyPondTool UI). - the new Compile but don't save behavior is quite surprising (and I've found myself loosing more than one score because of it). I'm not saying it's bad or absurd, it's just unexpected (and should be optional IMO). It is, go to LilyPond Preferences and set Save If Possible. maybe this should be the default? (IIUC how this works) Many things are high on the TODO list, and all the needed infrastructure is already there: Out of things you mentioned, i'm interested in two: - folding in editor that's truly a must-have. - editing through the Music View (i.e. drag objects to attach them to another note or to insert offset overrides) that'd be great! If you make it possible to tweak slurs via pdf preview (showing some Bezier curve handles to manipulate) it would be an instant killer feature! cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Hello, 2012/3/14 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com: On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl wrote: Please let me know the things you miss most! Note that F2 is only (roughly) one year old and really written from scratch, the first commit is of Nov 11, 2012. I intend to keep developing and adding new features. I think the current technical infrastructure and code setup is very nice. I miss: https://github.com/wbsoft/frescobaldi/issues This is where you need to put this stuff, so Wilbert can keep track of it. -- -- James ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Hi all, Thanks go to Valentin for taking the time for a consise first review :-) Here are some answers to questions and additions. Also note that F2 is only one year old and should be developed further, I think it has a very solid code foundation right now with Python and Qt4. :) Op Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:07:41 +0100 Valentin Villenave valen...@villenave.net schreef: - aesthetically speaking, the difference is huge and the interface looks a lot less pretty (pinkish background in the PDF preview: wtf?). This can be adjusted (of course :-) although I'm all in favor of a better default value! - the source code window sports less pleasant colors (plain blue/red/black instead of KDE's pastel tones). The default colors can be changed. I based my colors on the KDE ones, but I probably used to have a different color scheme in KDE :-) There is theme support for the color scheme. But I probably should implement importing/exporting schemes, so some nice color schemes could make it to the Frescobaldi website! - the search function is now just that: no searchreplace. There is Edit-Replace. It also support regular expressions and replacing in the selection. - no more tabs on the side and the bottom: making frames appear/disappear is a lot less intuitive: you have to **close** frames, not merely **hide** them (I was used to hiding the log window, but closing it makes less sense to me -- sure, I could just use the keyboard shortcut but then I'd have to learn it first ;-) Yes the tabs were nice, but the Qt-provided dock widgets are more flexible in layout: you can drag the tools in rows or columns, or drop one tool on another to make a tabbed tool view. - no more terminal frame (unlike LilyPondTool, where the log window may be used as a terminal emulator). There is a command Tools-Open Command Prompt that opens a terminal window in the correct directory. But a built-in console could be implemented, maybe even combining a operating system shell and a Python shell to test new Frescobaldi features. - no more integrated file browser (the documents frame isn't half as useful) A filebrowser would certainly be nice. Currently I just use Ctrl+O :) and also the Sessions menu. - the new Compile but don't save behavior is quite surprising (and I've found myself loosing more than one score because of it). I'm not saying it's bad or absurd, it's just unexpected (and should be optional IMO). This behaviour is the same as in Frescobaldi 1, but you can force Frescobaldi to save a document first by checking the Save document if possible option in the LilyPond preferences. This saves the document if it is modified and has already a filename. - the intelligent-indenting awesomeness now looks a bit less intelligent. (Where's my Ctrl-I?) Tab and Shift-tab handle the indent, Ctrl+I inserts a plain Tab. To keep Frescobaldi simple its indenting defaults to the LilyPond-recommended way of indenting. But you can override the behaviour by placing document variables in the document (see manual-editor-document variables). - the PDF preview offers less features than before (thanks to the kpdf component I could just select an area with the right-button and copy it as an image). I put much love in the PDF view to make it better than the old one (I hope ;-) You can copy images: drag a square with the right button or Shift-left button, and then choose Copy to Image in the context menu or the Edit menu. It even copies images in a specified DPI setting, instead of the current scale! You can drag both the image or the image's file, and also specify the antialiasing, background color (which in the Copy to Image dialog defaults to white :-) and whether to auto-crop the image. And did you notice the magnifying glass? Ctrl+Click in the Music View! The old pdf view did not support finding point and click objects (due to Okular limitations), but the new one has: Ctrl+J highlights the object the text cursor is at. - the MIDI player looks gorgeous (but I never use it). It has some nice features: it displays the current measure number and the time. You can quickly find music by dragging the timer knob. - the Preferences window has more colors and icons, but somehow feels less complete (a lot of the old one was Kate's preferences, where you could fine-tune your level of indenting, etc.) I tried to make the config pages simple and not too crowded. But I think an 'Editor' page is needed, with settings related to editing behaviour, indenting etc. That being said, there still are a lot of nice touches and afterthoughts that embody the Frescobaldi spirit and show how generously and intelligently you care about your users' every need or whim: snippets, special chars, run LilyPond with English messages, etc. It's so brillantly thought it's disarming. Please take a look at the snippets manager, it is quite powerful and also powers the File-New from template menu. It has support for python scripts as well and some
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl wrote: And did you notice the magnifying glass? Ctrl+Click in the Music View! Very cool! May i suggest making it's default settings 600 px wide and 350% zoom? cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Op Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:07:06 +0100 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com schreef: Very cool! May i suggest making it's default settings 600 px wide and 350% zoom? What is a nice magnifier size and scale depends on the screen size. I use Frescobaldi on an Asus EEEPC with 1024*600 :) So I think one must just go once through the Frescobaldi settings pages and hack it all up to your liking :) With best! -- Wilbert Berendsen (http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Op Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:18:47 +0100 Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl schreef: - no more integrated file browser (the documents frame isn't half as useful) A filebrowser would certainly be nice. Currently I just use Ctrl+O :) and also the Sessions menu. Replying to self: Frescobaldi 1.2 had no filebrowser; you probably are thinking of the Kate filebrowser back in the old days when LilyKDE (Frescobaldi's predecessor) was a Kate plugin. But I have been thinking of adding a fileview of the current document's directory, where clicking a .LY file would open it, and clicking PDF's or MIDI's would open them. This would ease dragging files out of Frescobaldi. Although you can also drag the PDF or MIDI just by dragging the icon from the toolbar or MIDI player. -- Wilbert Berendsen (http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl writes: Op Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:07:06 +0100 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com schreef: Very cool! May i suggest making it's default settings 600 px wide and 350% zoom? What is a nice magnifier size and scale depends on the screen size. xdpyinfo [...] screen #0: dimensions:1280x800 pixels (339x212 millimeters) resolution:96x96 dots per inch [...] I use Frescobaldi on an Asus EEEPC with 1024*600 :) So I think one must just go once through the Frescobaldi settings pages and hack it all up to your liking :) Most windowing systems provide the respective data for a good first educated guess. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 2:43 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl writes: Op Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:07:06 +0100 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com schreef: Very cool! May i suggest making it's default settings 600 px wide and 350% zoom? What is a nice magnifier size and scale depends on the screen size. True. xdpyinfo [...] screen #0: dimensions: 1280x800 pixels (339x212 millimeters) resolution: 96x96 dots per inch [...] I use Frescobaldi on an Asus EEEPC with 1024*600 :) So I think one must just go once through the Frescobaldi settings pages and hack it all up to your liking :) Most windowing systems provide the respective data for a good first educated guess. That would be nice. cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl wrote: Please let me know the things you miss most! Note that F2 is only (roughly) one year old and really written from scratch, the first commit is of Nov 11, 2012. I intend to keep developing and adding new features. I think the current technical infrastructure and code setup is very nice. I for one was in favor of removing the KDE dependency; but I wasn't expecting so many features to be missing afterwards! For example, integrating a web-browser and a terminal was trivial with Kparts, but now you'd need to recode everything from scratch... When you first mentioned you were going to go KDE-independent, I assumed it would be something like SMplayer compared to Kplayer : both are mplayer front-ends but SMplayer is KDE-independent and is a **lot** better than Kplayer. I realize now, however, that Frescobaldi involves much more different components. Anyhoo, I got upgraded to Frescobaldi 2.0 as part of a normal distro update, without noticing the major version bump... and when I opened Frescobaldi again, it was kind of a shock. - aesthetically speaking, the difference is huge and the interface looks a lot less pretty (pinkish background in the PDF preview: wtf?). - the source code window sports less pleasant colors (plain blue/red/black instead of KDE's pastel tones). - the search function is now just that: no searchreplace. - no more tabs on the side and the bottom: making frames appear/disappear is a lot less intuitive: you have to **close** frames, not merely **hide** them (I was used to hiding the log window, but closing it makes less sense to me -- sure, I could just use the keyboard shortcut but then I'd have to learn it first ;-) - no more terminal frame (unlike LilyPondTool, where the log window may be used as a terminal emulator). - no more integrated file browser (the documents frame isn't half as useful) - the new Compile but don't save behavior is quite surprising (and I've found myself loosing more than one score because of it). I'm not saying it's bad or absurd, it's just unexpected (and should be optional IMO). - the intelligent-indenting awesomeness now looks a bit less intelligent. (Where's my Ctrl-I?) - the PDF preview offers less features than before (thanks to the kpdf component I could just select an area with the right-button and copy it as an image). - the MIDI player looks gorgeous (but I never use it). - the Preferences window has more colors and icons, but somehow feels less complete (a lot of the old one was Kate's preferences, where you could fine-tune your level of indenting, etc.) That being said, there still are a lot of nice touches and afterthoughts that embody the Frescobaldi spirit and show how generously and intelligently you care about your users' every need or whim: snippets, special chars, run LilyPond with English messages, etc. It's so brillantly thought it's disarming. Many things are high on the TODO list, and all the needed infrastructure is already there: - folding in editor I'd definitely put _that_ one on top of the list. Kate's display of nested blocks in the colored gutter was _very_ good and convenient. (And beautiful to look at. :-) Now, I can't wait to see a Windows and Mac port (that could embed a ready-to-run LilyPond distribution, by the way)! Good luck -- you know where to find me if you need any French translation (although, quite frankly, I've been feeling a bit discouraged when seeing the subpar work of other contributors to your fr.po file). Cheers, Valentin. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
I did not use (or do not remember to) the KDE version and do not 'miss' all those things, but 2012/3/13 Valentin Villenave valen...@villenave.net: - aesthetically speaking, the difference is huge and the interface looks a lot less pretty (pinkish background in the PDF preview: wtf?). I think this is a matter of default settings and easily adjustable. - the source code window sports less pleasant colors (plain blue/red/black instead of KDE's pastel tones). Same. - the search function is now just that: no searchreplace. Ctrl+H or Edit- Replace - no more terminal frame (unlike LilyPondTool, where the log window may be used as a terminal emulator). Well there is a terminal in tools menu. - the new Compile but don't save behavior is quite surprising (and I've found myself loosing more than one score because of it). I'm not saying it's bad or absurd, it's just unexpected (and should be optional IMO). It is, go to LilyPond Preferences and set Save If Possible. - the intelligent-indenting awesomeness now looks a bit less intelligent. (Where's my Ctrl-I?) I have configured Ctrl-Alt-I for tools-Indent and everything indents nicely at a keystroke - the PDF preview offers less features than before (thanks to the kpdf component I could just select an area with the right-button and copy it as an image). I can do that with current version. Now, I can't wait to see a Windows and Mac port (that could embed a ready-to-run LilyPond distribution, by the way)! Are we talking about the same program? There's been a Windows port for a time now. I gave a talk for my colleagues and installed Fresco+Lily in minutes for all. Cheers, -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Op Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:10:35 +0100 Valentin Villenave valen...@villenave.net schreef: Yeah, I'm still not entirely convinced by the KDE-less version (in a couple months we should discuss it in the Report :-). Please let me know the things you miss most! Note that F2 is only (roughly) one year old and really written from scratch, the first commit is of Nov 11, 2012. I intend to keep developing and adding new features. I think the current technical infrastructure and code setup is very nice. Many things are high on the TODO list, and all the needed infrastructure is already there: - MIDI input (both in step mode and real-time playing) - MIDI import (advanced dialog to open a MIDI file and arrange the tracks into voices before dropping the LY code to the editor) - Import other formats, either through the xxx2ly tools or with own libraries - VI-like editing mode - folding in editor - complete the highlighting for html, latex, docbook, texinfo - command for running lilypond-book - integration with git/svn etc. - editing through the Music View (i.e. drag objects to attach them to another note or to insert offset overrides) - lookup of lilypond keywords in the lilypond help (like Fresc. 1.2) But: happy birthday! Merci beaucoup! Wilbert -- Wilbert Berendsen (http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [Frescobaldi] Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Op Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:50:40 +0100 Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl schreef: the first commit is of Nov 11, 2012 sorry, must be 2010 or course :) -- Wilbert Berendsen (http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
2012/3/11 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com: Thanks and happy birthday to you! Frescobaldi is great! Yeah, I'm still not entirely convinced by the KDE-less version (in a couple months we should discuss it in the Report :-). But: happy birthday! Cheers, Valentin. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Valentin Villenave valen...@villenave.net writes: 2012/3/11 Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com: Thanks and happy birthday to you! Frescobaldi is great! Yeah, I'm still not entirely convinced by the KDE-less version (in a couple months we should discuss it in the Report :-). Should improve portability. For me, KDE is a non-starter. I once compared using Emacs (with AUCTeX, preview-latex and lots of other stuff) as a TeX shell with a bare-bones no-nonsense KDE application, I think Kile (or whatever it was called at that time). It turned out that just starting the KDE application had about three times the memory footprint of a full Emacs session with various directory edits, graphical previews and several source files and stuff. Three times. Because it started all sorts of daemons. And its private footprint alone was comparable to that of Emacs. That's the sort of baggage you don't want to be dragging around unnecessarily. It is a tradeoff that might be ok if your main work environment is KDE anyway, but it makes an application uninteresting when this is not the case. I don't know what kind of functionality hit the removal of the KDE dependency carried with it. But as a step for increasing the user base, feasible platforms and overall appeal, this was certainly a good strategic choice. And it is not likely the KDE users will now jump ship and use some other application instead. I still need to do a lot of other stuff before I can tackle Emacs support of LilyPond again. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Wilbert Berendsen wbs...@xs4all.nl wrote: Hi all, Frescobaldi 2.0.4 (www.frescobaldi.org) is out with the following changes [...] It's my birthday present to the LilyPond-loving community :-) Thanks and happy birthday to you! Frescobaldi is great! cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
ANN: Frescobaldi 2.0.4
Hi all, Frescobaldi 2.0.4 (www.frescobaldi.org) is out with the following changes: * Translations: - updated: pl, nl, cs * New features: - view-line numbers - in the documents list, it is now possible to right-click a group of selected documents (or a directory name, if grouping is enabled), to close or save multiple documents at once. - automatic completion in the snippet editor - python snippets may now define a main() function that can do everything - new delete-lines snippet, bound by default to Ctrl-K - splash screen on startup (can be turned off in the preferences) * Improvements: - opening many documents (e.g. a large session) is now much faster - waiting for LilyPond to return information on Settings-Ok now does not block the user interface anymore and shows progress if it takes some time - built-in manual now documents settings and session dialog * Bug fixes: - fix icon theme index files not in source tarball (regression since 2.0.3) - fix hyphenation dictionaries not in source tarball - fixed memory leak (closed documents that had been shown remained in memory) It's my birthday present to the LilyPond-loving community :-) Enjoy! -- Wilbert Berendsen (http://www.wilbertberendsen.nl) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
