Re: Beams over rests

[Paul Hodges]

Thanks - adjusting the Stem.details.beamed-length as required did the 
job, though as you say it requires adjustment for each individual case.  
So I gritted my teeth and did it - there were 54 instances (less than I 
would have guessed actually), so it was quite manageable.

To my surprise, mostly it looks quite good; there are a couple of bars 
in which no note has less than four leger lines, and these look more 
attenuated than I think is sensible - but the publishers will have to 
say.  Of course, if they agree a compromise in a few cases, the 
adjustment is very easy now the commands are in place.  Also, I've left 
beams which don't need this adjustment untouched - in a couple of cases 
tweaking them to match the extended beams either side of them might look 
better.

Thanks for the tip.
Paul

On 28/09/2021 10:14:26, "N. Andrew Walsh"  
wrote:

>Hi Paul,
>
>I'm sure you know of the override pair:
>
>\override Stem.stemlet-length = #0.5
>\override Stem.details.beamed-lengths = #'(4.75)
>( music with beamed rests here )
>\revert Stem.stemlet-length
>\revert Stem.details.beamed-lengths
>
>I'm not aware of any way to set this globally. Well, the first one can 
>be set once. You'll still have to use "[" and "]" to force beaming, and 
>you should, for the sake of Best Practices™, set the stemlet length 
>manually for each one.
>
>But this is the way I've had to do it; and while it's tedious to do 
>that for every affected beam, it ensures that they look good and work 
>properly.
>
>Cheers,
>
>A
>
>On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:08 AM Paul Hodges  wrote:
>>The composer I'm working on is very fond of having beams over rests -
>>and indeed it helps a lot in reading his more complex rhythms.  
>>However,
>>LilyPond is treating rests differently from notes, in that beam
>>positions are adjusted to suit the notes, whereas rests are then
>>adjusted to suit the beams.  So I get this kind of layout:
>>However, the publisher wants rests to remain in their standard 
>>position,
>>like this:
>>
>>with occasional compromises to this extent:
>>
>>
>>I can obviously force this in individual cases, but again, is there a
>>global adjustment I can make to get nearer to what I'm being asked 
>>for?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Paul

Re: Beams over rests

[N. Andrew Walsh]

Hi Paul,

I'm sure you know of the override pair:

\override Stem.stemlet-length = #0.5
\override Stem.details.beamed-lengths = #'(4.75)
( music with beamed rests here )
\revert Stem.stemlet-length
\revert Stem.details.beamed-lengths

I'm not aware of any way to set this globally. Well, the first one can be
set once. You'll still have to use "[" and "]" to force beaming, and you
should, for the sake of Best Practices™, set the stemlet length manually
for each one.

But this is the way I've had to do it; and while it's tedious to do that
for every affected beam, it ensures that they look good and work properly.

Cheers,

A

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:08 AM Paul Hodges  wrote:

> The composer I'm working on is very fond of having beams over rests -
> and indeed it helps a lot in reading his more complex rhythms.  However,
> LilyPond is treating rests differently from notes, in that beam
> positions are adjusted to suit the notes, whereas rests are then
> adjusted to suit the beams.  So I get this kind of layout:
> However, the publisher wants rests to remain in their standard position,
> like this:
>
> with occasional compromises to this extent:
>
>
> I can obviously force this in individual cases, but again, is there a
> global adjustment I can make to get nearer to what I'm being asked for?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul

Beams over rests

[Paul Hodges]

The composer I'm working on is very fond of having beams over rests - 
and indeed it helps a lot in reading his more complex rhythms.  However, 
LilyPond is treating rests differently from notes, in that beam 
positions are adjusted to suit the notes, whereas rests are then 
adjusted to suit the beams.  So I get this kind of layout:
However, the publisher wants rests to remain in their standard position, 
like this:

with occasional compromises to this extent:


I can obviously force this in individual cases, but again, is there a 
global adjustment I can make to get nearer to what I'm being asked for?

Thanks,
Paul

Re: Beams over rests and concaveness

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi Carl,

Thank you so much for the reply, I will report this in the bugs subforum.
Also, thanks for the workaround, I will use it for the moment being.

Best,
Gilberto



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Re: Beams over rests and concaveness

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/23/20, 7:48 AM, "Gilberto Agostinho"  wrote:

Hi everyone,

It seems that the beam concaveness value is ignored when beaming over rests,
in the case of a single note with a single rest. This happens with and
without stemlet. See the code and score below, the groups marked with an
asterisk should have been flat (+inf.0 concaveness): 

Does anyone know a solution for this?

I think this is a bug, and should be reported as such.  Neither concaveness nor 
damping works to set the beam horizontal in this case.

There is a workaround -- set the beam positions yourself.  The rest will move 
as needed to have the right relationship with the beam:

\version "2.19.82"
{
  \time 12/8
  g8[ g'8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ g'8]
  
  g8[ r8]
 \once \override Beam.positions=#`(0 . 0)
  g8[ r8]^"*"
  
  \override Stem.stemlet-length = #1
  g8[ r8]
 \once \override Beam.positions=#`(0 . 0)
  g8[ r8]^"*"
  
}


Hope this helps,

Carl
 

Beams over rests and concaveness

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi everyone,

It seems that the beam concaveness value is ignored when beaming over rests,
in the case of a single note with a single rest. This happens with and
without stemlet. See the code and score below, the groups marked with an
asterisk should have been flat (+inf.0 concaveness): 

\version "2.19.82"
{
  \time 12/8
  g8[ g'8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ g'8]
  
  g8[ r8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r8]^"*"
  
  \override Stem.stemlet-length = #1
  g8[ r8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r8]^"*"
  
  g8[ g'16 g''16]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ g'16 g''16]
  
  g8[ r16 g''16]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r16 g''16]
  
  \override Stem.stemlet-length = #1
  g8[ r16 g''16]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r16 g''16]
}

 

Does anyone know a solution for this?

Many thanks,
Gilberto



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Beams over rests and concaveness

[Gilberto Agostinho]

Hi everyone,

It seems that the beam concaveness value is ignored when beaming over rests,
in the case of a single note with a single rest. This happens with and
without stemlet. See the code and score below, the groups marked with an
asterisk should have been flat (+inf.0 concaveness): 

\version "2.19.82"
{
  \time 12/8
  g8[ g'8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ g'8]
  
  g8[ r8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r8]^"*"
  
  \override Stem.stemlet-length = #1
  g8[ r8]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r8]^"*"
  
  g8[ g'16 g''16]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ g'16 g''16]
  
  g8[ r16 g''16]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r16 g''16]
  
  \override Stem.stemlet-length = #1
  g8[ r16 g''16]
  \once \override Beam.concaveness = #+inf.0
  g8[ r16 g''16]
}

 

Does anyone know a solution for this?

Many thanks,
Gilberto



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Re: automatic beams over rests?

[David Kastrup]

Tobin Chodos  writes:

> Is there no way to set beams to go over rests globally?

Not with reasonable amount of effort (you'd need to write a replacement
for the Auto_beam_engraver: the built-in one doesn't beam over rests).

-- 
David Kastrup

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automatic beams over rests?

[Tobin Chodos]

Is there no way to set beams to go over rests globally?
Thanks again - new to this list but learning a lot.
Tobin
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again: beams over rests

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear community,
I have a problem with beams over rests.
In the below quoted snippet, they don't look like expected.
I would like to have the beams longer and the should include the last rest
of the four sixteenths group,
Does someone have an idea for solving this problem?
\version 2.14.2
\new Staff {
  \time 3/4
  r16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c' r f' r % no beams over rest, as expected
  r16[ g' c' r] r[ f' g'  r] c'[ r f' r]
  % the beams should be longer, in my opinion, andr16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c'
r f' r they should include the last rest of each group
}
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Re: again: beams over rests

[Phil Holmes]

I believe this is fixed in the latest development versions.  Please try the 
latest 2.15 version and let us know if the output isn't what you believe it 
should be.


Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Stefan Thomas 
  To: lilypond-user 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:51 AM
  Subject: again: beams over rests


  Dear community,
  I have a problem with beams over rests.
  In the below quoted snippet, they don't look like expected.
  I would like to have the beams longer and the should include the last rest of 
the four sixteenths group,
  Does someone have an idea for solving this problem?
  \version 2.14.2
  \new Staff {
\time 3/4 
r16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c' r f' r % no beams over rest, as expected
r16[ g' c' r] r[ f' g'  r] c'[ r f' r] 
% the beams should be longer, in my opinion, andr16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c' r 
f' r they should include the last rest of each group
  }



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Re: again: beams over rests

[James]

hello,

On 28 December 2011 11:51, Stefan Thomas
kontrapunktste...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Dear community,
 I have a problem with beams over rests.
 In the below quoted snippet, they don't look like expected.
 I would like to have the beams longer and the should include the last rest
 of the four sixteenths group,
 Does someone have an idea for solving this problem?
 \version 2.14.2
 \new Staff {
   \time 3/4
   r16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c' r f' r % no beams over rest, as expected
   r16[ g' c' r] r[ f' g'  r] c'[ r f' r]
   % the beams should be longer, in my opinion, andr16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c'
 r f' r they should include the last rest of each group
 }


Probably related to

http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=994

You could see

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=511

Which might give you some clues

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Re: again: beams over rests

[Janek Warchoł]

 - Original Message -
 From: Stefan Thomas

 I would like to have the beams longer and the should include the last rest
 of the four sixteenths group,
 Does someone have an idea for solving this problem?
 \version 2.14.2
 \new Staff {
   \time 3/4
   r16 g' c' r r f' g'  r c' r f' r % no beams over rest, as expected
   r16[ g' c' r] r[ f' g'  r] c'[ r f' r]
 }


2011/12/28 Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net:
 I believe this is fixed in the latest development versions.  Please try the
 latest 2.15 version and let us know if the output isn't what you believe it
 should be.

I confirm.  Output from 2.15.23 attached.

cheers,
Janek


test.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: beams over rests

[Nick Payne]

On 30/06/11 11:42, Edward Neeman wrote:

Hello,

In this example (taken from the Documentation page, 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/beams ), the beam 
doesn't extend over the rest on the right.  How can I get it to look 
like it does in the documentation?


Thanks,
Edward


\version 2.14.1

\relative c' { r4 r8[ g' a r] r g[ | a] r }


Copy and paste of this code shows the beam as per the manual (ie 
extending over both rests) with 2.14.1 amd64 on Ubuntu 10.04.


Nick
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Re: beams over rests

[James Lowe]

Hello.

On 30 Jun 2011, at 06:34, Keith OHara k-ohara5...@oco.net wrote:

 Colin Campbell cpkc at shaw.ca writes:
 
 Consistently broken for me, with 2.12.3, 2.13.63 and 2.15.3 on Ubuntu 
 11.04
 
 I made a bug-list entry
 http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1718

I think you meant
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1723

James

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Re: beams over rests

[Urs Liska]

Hi,

for me it works as expected on 2.15.2.

Strange...

Am 30.06.2011 03:42, schrieb Edward Neeman:

Hello,

In this example (taken from the Documentation page, 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/beams ), the beam 
doesn't extend over the rest on the right.  How can I get it to look 
like it does in the documentation?


Thanks,
Edward


\version 2.14.1

\relative c' { r4 r8[ g' a r] r g[ | a] r }


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beams over rests

[Edward Neeman]

  
  
Hello,

In this example (taken from the Documentation page,
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/beams ), the
beam doesn't extend over the rest on the right. How can I get it to
look like it does in the documentation?

Thanks,
Edward


\version "2.14.1"

\relative c' { r4 r8[ g' a r] r g[ | a] r }
  

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Re: beams over rests

[Keith OHara]

Edward Neeman edward.neeman at gmail.com writes:


 beam doesn't extend over the rest on the right.  How can I get it to
 look like it does in the documentation?

 \version 2.14.1
 \relative c' { r4 r8[ g' a r] r g[ | a] r }

Uh oh.  It works perfectly for me with 2.14.0,
giving a beam extended as shown in the manual.

Could you, or anybody else who gets the bad output, post 
which Lilypond version and which operating system you use?


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Re: beams over rests

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Keith (and Edward),

 Could you, or anybody else who gets the bad output, post 
 which Lilypond version and which operating system you use?

Doesn't work here… 2.15.1-1 on Mac OS X 10.6.7.

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: beams over rests

[Edward Neeman]

  
  
Hi,
I'm using Lilypond 2.14.1 and MacOSX 10.5.8.
If I set the Beam 'stemlet-length to a value greater than 0, then
  the beam looks like it should.


Thanks,
Edward


On 6/30/11 9:48 AM, Keith OHara wrote:

  Edward Neeman edward.neeman at gmail.com writes:



  
beam doesn't extend over the rest on the right.  How can I get it to
look like it does in the documentation?

  
  

  
\version "2.14.1"
\relative c' { r4 r8[ g' a r] r g[ | a] r }

  
  
Uh oh.  It works perfectly for me with 2.14.0,
giving a beam extended as shown in the manual.

Could you, or anybody else who gets the bad output, post 
which Lilypond version and which operating system you use?


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Re: beams over rests

[Colin Campbell]

On 11-06-29 08:48 PM, Keith OHara wrote:

Edward Neemanedward.neemanat  gmail.com  writes:



 beam doesn't extend over the rest on the right.  How can I get it to
 look like it does in the documentation?
 \version 2.14.1
 \relative c' { r4 r8[ g' a r] r g[ | a] r }

Uh oh.  It works perfectly for me with 2.14.0,
giving a beam extended as shown in the manual.

Could you, or anybody else who gets the bad output, post
which Lilypond version and which operating system you use?




Consistently broken for me, with 2.12.3, 2.13.63 and 2.15.3 on Ubuntu 
11.04, where broken means cut and paste the snippet into Frescobaldi 
and cannot reproduce the image in the docs; more specifically, I don't 
see the beam extending over the eighth rest.

Colin

--
The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter.
-- Mark Twain

 



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Re: beams over rests

[Keith OHara]

Colin Campbell cpkc at shaw.ca writes:

 Consistently broken for me, with 2.12.3, 2.13.63 and 2.15.3 on Ubuntu 
 11.04

I made a bug-list entry
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1718

Edward Neeman edward.neeman at gmail.com writes:
 If I set the Beam 'stemlet-length to a value greater than 0, 
 then the beam looks like it should.

Thanks for the workaround, Edward.


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beams over rests

[michael webster]

I'm writing a piece with complex rhythms and want to beam rests together with 
notes for clarity.

 c8[ r8] produces a beam on the c which does not extend to the following rest. 

c8[ \set stemLeftBeamCount = #1r8] produces what I'm after in that case...

but in any case manually beaming every beat is a chore...

is there a better way? Ideally there would be a variable to include rests in 
beams as part of the autobeamer

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beams over rests

[michael webster]

I'm writing a piece with complex rhythms and want to beam rests together with 
notes for clarity.

c8[ r8] produces a beam on the c which does not extend to the following rest. 

c8[ \set stemLeftBeamCount = #1r8] produces what I'm after in that case...

but in any case manually beaming every beat is a chore...

is there a better way? Ideally there would be a variable to include rests in 
beams as part of the autobeamer

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automatic beams over rests

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear lilypond-users,
I have a question: is it possible, to get the beams in the below quoted
example automatically?
\relative { r8 [ c 8] r8 [ r16 d] r16 [ e8. ] r8 [ d] }

Thanks,
Stefan
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Re: automatic beams over rests

[-Eluze]

Stefan Thomas-3 wrote:
 
 Dear lilypond-users,
 I have a question: is it possible, to get the beams in the below quoted
 example automatically?
 \relative { r8 [ c 8] r8 [ r16 d] r16 [ e8. ] r8 [ d] }
 
i think the easiest way is to only write a beaming instruction where to
start and where to stop:

\relative { r 8 [ c 8 r 8 r 16 d r 16 e 8. r 8 d ] }

hdh
Eluze
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Re: automatic beams over rests

[Mark Polesky]

Stefan,

see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-11/msg00213.html

- Mark



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Re: automatic beams over rests

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear Mark,
thanks for Your answer. I knew that it is possible, to get the beamnings
with putting the beams and the music into the same context. But I wanted to
ask, if there is maybee a possibilitie to do this fully automatically. I
know that there is a possibilitie to do this in Finale and Sibelius. Beams
over rest can be very useful in rhythmic complex contermporary music and it
would be great if one could switch on the beams over rests automatically.
Can be done something like this with a sheme-script?

2008/12/7 Mark Polesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Stefan,

 see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-11/msg00213.html

 - Mark


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Re: automatic beams over rests

[Carl D. Sorensen]

On 12/7/08 10:41 AM, Stefan Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Dear Mark,
 thanks for Your answer. I knew that it is possible, to get the beamnings with
 putting the beams and the music into the same context. But I wanted to ask, if
 there is maybee a possibilitie to do this fully automatically. I know that
 there is a possibilitie to do this in Finale and Sibelius. Beams over rest can
 be very useful in rhythmic complex contermporary music and it would be great
 if one could switch on the beams over rests automatically. Can be done
 something like this with a sheme-script?
 
 2008/12/7 Mark Polesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Stefan,
 
 see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-11/msg00213.html
 
 - Mark
 
  
 

Stefan,

This would require a rewrite of the AutoBeaming code.  It may be doable -- I
haven't looked at it yet.  I think I was the last person to touch the
autobeaming code.

For now, you should probably request this as a feature request on
bug-lilypond.  

Maybe I can take a stab at it over the Christmas holiday.

Carl



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Re: automatic beams over rests

[Mark Polesky]

Stefan Thomas wrote:
 it would be great if one could switch on the beams over 
 rests automatically.

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:
 This would require a rewrite of the AutoBeaming code
 ...Maybe I can take a stab at it over the Christmas holiday.

Carl,
That would be awesome.
- Mark


  


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