Re: Export to XML

[Jean Abou Samra]

  
  
Le 30/08/2022 à 12:55, nitra...@posteo.net a
  écrit :


  
A MusicXML export integrated into LilyPond has been discussed repeatedly,
and everybody agrees that it is desirable, but it has not been implemented
so far because, well, it's quite easier said than done. In a free (libre)
/ open source project, the only way to be sure something will get done
is to do it yourself.

  
  
I didn't want to sound like complaining! I understand it should be a lot of
work to provide. I wasn't sure it was not implemented for technical or ethical
reasons.



  
  I understand. I would say it is unimplemented not for ethical
  reasons,
  nor even for technical reasons, but simply resource reasons —
  unlike most
  of the other problems that are discussed frequently (grace
  synchronization,
  cross-voice spanners), it isn't made hard by the way LilyPond is
  designed,
  it's just a big chunk of work that needs people with all of time,
  motivation and competence to tackle it.
  

  

Re: Export to XML

[nitram45]

> A MusicXML export integrated into LilyPond has been discussed repeatedly,
> and everybody agrees that it is desirable, but it has not been implemented
> so far because, well, it's quite easier said than done. In a free (libre)
> / open source project, the only way to be sure something will get done
> is to do it yourself.

I didn't want to sound like complaining! I understand it should be a lot of
work to provide. I wasn't sure it was not implemented for technical or ethical
reasons.

Re: Export to XML

[Jean Abou Samra]

  
  

  

Le 30/08/2022 à
11:59, nitra...@posteo.net a écrit :
  

  Dear all,

[...]

2) I tried the OpenLilylib package. I wasn't familiar with that tool and
had to struggle a bit with the installation. But still, with the
export-example.ly seen in the manual, I get this error message:

|  GNU LilyPond 2.22.2
|  Traitement de « export-example.ly »
|  Analyse...
|  
|  oll-core: library infrastructure successfully loaded.
|  Interprétation en cours de la musique...
|  init exportHumdrum: "export-example.krn"
|  init Staff 1
|  init Voice 1/1 (1)
|  init Voice 1/2 (2)
|  init Staff 2
|  init Voice 1/ (3)
|  init Voice 2/ (1)
|  init Voice 2/mel (2)/home/remy/.config/lilypond/openlilylib/lilypond-export/api.scm:278:48: In _expression_ (ly:grob-properties grob):
|  /home/remy/.config/lilypond/openlilylib/lilypond-export/api.scm:278:48: Unbound variable: ly:grob-properties

And I only get the PDF as an output. I don't know what I missed here?


  
  
  This sounds like this OLL package has not been updated for
  LilyPond
  version 2.22.
  
  


  6) Last point: I made some month ago, a short presentation and introduction
to LilyPond for my colleagues in my music institution. Beyond the fact it
was quite a challenge to try and convince them of the utility to take some
time and learn that great tool, I received that question I couldn't answer
at the time: is it possible to import or export in XML? I haven't have a
use for that kind of feature until now, and I don't know how the commercial
softwares handle that, but still, wouldn't that be a great argument to
convince the people to go for it? Final thought, I don't know how Urs did
manage to convince publishers about LilyPond and what responses he got (I
would be curious though), but I am pretty sure that kind of limitation in
importing/exporting in XML would be nowdays a dealbreaker for publishing
companies, don't you agree?



  
  
  A MusicXML export integrated into LilyPond has been discussed
  repeatedly,
  and everybody agrees that it is desirable, but it has not been
  implemented
  so far because, well, it's quite easier said than done. In a free
  (libre)
  / open source project, the only way to be sure something will get
  done
  is to do it yourself.
  
  Regards,
  Jean
  

  

Re: Export to XML

[nitram45]

Dear all,

Thank you for your comments about that situation. I tried what Jean
suggested :

1) The XML export in Frescobaldi did work but the result was very
unsatisfactory. I even tried to simplify as much as I could (erased all
tweaks, custom commands, fingerings) and only kept the music notes. But
still, the result when imported in Finale (2014) was terrible (some voices
were displaced!).

2) I tried the OpenLilylib package. I wasn't familiar with that tool and
had to struggle a bit with the installation. But still, with the
export-example.ly seen in the manual, I get this error message:

|  GNU LilyPond 2.22.2
|  Traitement de « export-example.ly »
|  Analyse...
|  
|  oll-core: library infrastructure successfully loaded.
|  Interprétation en cours de la musique...
|  init exportHumdrum: "export-example.krn"
|  init Staff 1
|  init Voice 1/1 (1)
|  init Voice 1/2 (2)
|  init Staff 2
|  init Voice 1/ (3)
|  init Voice 2/ (1)
|  init Voice 2/mel 
(2)/home/remy/.config/lilypond/openlilylib/lilypond-export/api.scm:278:48: In 
expression (ly:grob-properties grob):
|  /home/remy/.config/lilypond/openlilylib/lilypond-export/api.scm:278:48: 
Unbound variable: ly:grob-properties

And I only get the PDF as an output. I don't know what I missed here?

3) I tried in the same old Finale version to import my PDF and I have to
admit the result was for now the most satisfactory... I am pretty convinced
now that Schott uses Sibelius as I read those fonts in some PDF examples
they put online (maybe this will be of interest for some of you):
| SchottMusicSibeliusStandard
| SchottMusicSibeliusText
| CenturySchoolbook-Bold
| TimesNewRoman
| OpusText
| OpusFiguredBassStd
| LinotypeSyntaxCom-Regular

4) I don't know if the fact I could not provide a workable file for them
would be a deal breaker... I hope not as I "imagined" the work of a
publishing company to be able to engrave from scratch any score... I could
also mimic their own house styling in LilyPond, but I would be very
surprised they ask for that and agree with Andrew, something would be wrong
if so. So if I can't export in XML, my best bet would be for them to typeset
from scratch, or to import the PDF in their own software and see if that
can provide a good initial base...

5) To answer Andrew about the copyright and financial deal, I haven't
received a concrete proposal yet and cannot say how it would appear. I know
the incomes won't be very substantial, but still I see that as on
opportunity to reach more people. But I would be curious to know what you
meant by self-publishing? I, for sure, like to buy my scores on paper and
that is an aspect I like in those old publishing companies...

6) Last point: I made some month ago, a short presentation and introduction
to LilyPond for my colleagues in my music institution. Beyond the fact it
was quite a challenge to try and convince them of the utility to take some
time and learn that great tool, I received that question I couldn't answer
at the time: is it possible to import or export in XML? I haven't have a
use for that kind of feature until now, and I don't know how the commercial
softwares handle that, but still, wouldn't that be a great argument to
convince the people to go for it? Final thought, I don't know how Urs did
manage to convince publishers about LilyPond and what responses he got (I
would be curious though), but I am pretty sure that kind of limitation in
importing/exporting in XML would be nowdays a dealbreaker for publishing
companies, don't you agree?

Re: Export to XML

[Jacques Menu]

Hello Andrew,

> In your workflow, why the double export? if the result is fine from Lilypond 
> why then export from MuseScore?

I’d say it is to refine the score with MuseScore to fix the imperfect 
Lily->MusicXML export.

JM

Re: Export to XML

[Andrew Bernard]

I thought the musicxml export is only experimental/preliminary. How 
developed is it exactly?


The OP seems to have tuned and tweaked his engraving extensively for the 
best appearance (OP to confirm...). Is this tool capable of capturing 
all such fine tweaks? Or is this beyond MusicXML anyway?


In your workflow, why the double export? if the result is fine from 
Lilypond why then export from MuseScore?


Musescore simply refuses to install or uninstall earlier version on my 
Windows 11 Insider Preview, FWIW. Just mentioning (not very happy about 
that!)



Andrew


On 26/08/2022 6:30 pm, m.tarensk...@kpnmail.nl wrote:

This is what I would do, using only Open Source software:
- convert my lilypond files to musicxml using python-ly (or 
frescobaldi, which uses python-ly)
- load the result in Musesscore to check if the conversion succeeded 
(sometimes it fails comlletely), and/or if errors can easily be corrected.

- use Musescore to export the result again to musicxml
- Let the people who insist using Sibelius/Finale import the musicxml 
file and apply their preferred housestyles to it.

Re: Export to XML

[Paul Hodges]

From: Andrew Bernard  
Subject: Re: Export to XML 

Unless they accept a PDF 
from you and print that or reset from scratch I think you are stuck.


My son is arranging the publication of the remaining works of a recently 
deceased composer, and the republication properly typeset of some works already 
published in MS form.  The publisher is Novello (Wise group), and they are 
accepting PDFs for print.  I have done a couple of works using LilyPond - 
another person has done some using Finale; my son has prompted us to bring our 
styles as reasonably close as we can to the style used by Novello in the works 
they have previously typeset, within the limitations of each of our software 
(basically I have changed the music font, and the thicknesses of some lines), 
and Novello have not asked for more.


Paul

Re: Export to XML

[m.tarensk...@kpnmail.nl]

This is what I would do, using only Open Source software:- convert my lilypond files to musicxml using python-ly (or frescobaldi, which uses python-ly)- load the result in Musesscore to check if the conversion succeeded (sometimes it fails comlletely), and/or if errors can easily be corrected.- use Musescore to export the result again to musicxml- Let the people who insist using Sibelius/Finale import the musicxml file and apply their preferred housestyles to it.MTVerzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon Oorspronkelijk bericht Onderwerp: Re: Export to XMLVan: Jean Abou Samra Aan: nitra...@posteo.net,lilypond-user@gnu.orgCc: Jacques Menu ,Andrew Bernard Le 25/08/2022 à 14:43, nitra...@posteo.net a écrit :> Dear LilyPond users,>> I used to post questions on the LilyPond forums few years back when it was> possible to post and edit messages directly online (on nabble.com if I> recall correctly). But since it was closed, I didn't take the time to> subscribe to the mailing list and haven't try that way. I somehow managed> to find answers to my questions myself, but today I would need some advice.>> I used to be an intense Finale then Sibelius user and I learnt LilyPond> back in 2017. Since then, it is my only tool to engrave my scores and I have> moved progressively my workflow on Linux. Hence I cannot (and doesn't want) to> go back on those proprietary software and it also changed my use of LilyPond (I> replaced frescobaldi by vim, I use a lot of separate folders for each> projects and program some Makefiles to link everything smoothly, ...).>> I received some good news recently. A big music publisher (Schott Music Group),> is interested in publishing some of my compositions I made for my piano students> and it should be released in a near future. I engraved my score with great care,> and as I said, using a Makefile and some unix architecture for that particular> project. However, as you might guess, they want to engrave it with their own> editorial chart and within their music software (I am not sure of which one they> are using yet).>> I proposed to send them my LilyPond files but I have been confirmed yesterday> that they cannot process those... They told me an XML file might help them> though. I looked if it was possible to export in XML but I read the result was> bad and LilyPond wasn't made for that task... So here's my question: what would> you suggest I could do to export my scores and help them prepare the album?>> Thanks for the advices!>Frescobaldi has an experimental feature to export LilyPond codeto MusicXML. Check "Enable experimental features" in the settingsand (after restarting Frescobaldi) you get a button File > Export > Export to MusicXML.There is experimental openLilyLib package:https://github.com/openlilylib/lilypond-exportBoth are experimental, but maybe one of them will work reasonablyfor you.Best,Jean

Re: Export to XML

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le 25/08/2022 à 14:43, nitra...@posteo.net a écrit :

Dear LilyPond users,

I used to post questions on the LilyPond forums few years back when it was
possible to post and edit messages directly online (on nabble.com if I
recall correctly). But since it was closed, I didn't take the time to
subscribe to the mailing list and haven't try that way. I somehow managed
to find answers to my questions myself, but today I would need some advice.

I used to be an intense Finale then Sibelius user and I learnt LilyPond
back in 2017. Since then, it is my only tool to engrave my scores and I have
moved progressively my workflow on Linux. Hence I cannot (and doesn't want) to
go back on those proprietary software and it also changed my use of LilyPond (I
replaced frescobaldi by vim, I use a lot of separate folders for each
projects and program some Makefiles to link everything smoothly, ...).

I received some good news recently. A big music publisher (Schott Music Group),
is interested in publishing some of my compositions I made for my piano students
and it should be released in a near future. I engraved my score with great care,
and as I said, using a Makefile and some unix architecture for that particular
project. However, as you might guess, they want to engrave it with their own
editorial chart and within their music software (I am not sure of which one they
are using yet).

I proposed to send them my LilyPond files but I have been confirmed yesterday
that they cannot process those... They told me an XML file might help them
though. I looked if it was possible to export in XML but I read the result was
bad and LilyPond wasn't made for that task... So here's my question: what would
you suggest I could do to export my scores and help them prepare the album?

Thanks for the advices!




Frescobaldi has an experimental feature to export LilyPond code
to MusicXML. Check "Enable experimental features" in the settings
and (after restarting Frescobaldi) you get a button File > Export
> Export to MusicXML.

There is experimental openLilyLib package:
https://github.com/openlilylib/lilypond-export

Both are experimental, but maybe one of them will work reasonably
for you.

Best,
Jean

Re: Export to XML

[Andrew Bernard]

People have made styles and fonts for Finale and Sibelius that mimic 
quite closely Henle Verlag and Barenreiter. But it's a huge amount of 
work, and only because they like it, not for submission.


Surely Schott is not expecting you to create a complete house style in 
an entirely different program. Something is wrong if so.


And, Schott will own the copyright and you will earn a pittance. Is it 
really worth it? There are so many ways to self publish now. If you do 
have an especially favorable financial deal with Schott you may have to 
ditch all your fine work and reset in Finale or Sibelius, whatever.


Some time ago Urs Liska started a sort of campaign drive to convince 
major publishers to at least accept Lilypond, if not convert to it. But 
sadly that did not seem to gain any traction.



On 26/08/2022 5:45 pm, Jacques Menu wrote:

Maybe one way could be to mimic this publishers look as much as possible, 
supposing that’s OK for them…

I did that once for a very small company : for our own performance needs, I had 
already typeset the score we were to play from their original, handwritten by 
the composer, in the first place.

Re: Export to XML

[Jacques Menu]

Hello,

Maybe one way could be to mimic this publishers look as much as possible, 
supposing that’s OK for them… 

I did that once for a very small company : for our own performance needs, I had 
already typeset the score we were to play from their original, handwritten by 
the composer, in the first place.

JM

> Le 26 août 2022 à 08:59, Andrew Bernard  a écrit :
> 
> I have no idea what software Schott Music Group uses for engraving, but it's 
> disappointing nowadays that many of the larger publisher are demanding that 
> composers do their work for them and requesting finished work, at least 
> finished to the point they can apply their house style. I don't think any of 
> the big names use Lilypond, and as far as I recall various efforts to get 
> Lilypond to export MusicXML (with all its limitations)  have not come to any 
> fruition. Unless they accept a PDF from you and print that or reset from 
> scratch I think you are stuck. Sorry. I think the silence on the list re your 
> question is also confirmation that there is not an answer to this. I may be 
> wrong!
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> On 25/08/2022 10:43 pm, nitra...@posteo.net wrote:
>> I proposed to send them my LilyPond files but I have been confirmed yesterday
>> that they cannot process those... They told me an XML file might help them
>> though. I looked if it was possible to export in XML but I read the result 
>> was
>> bad and LilyPond wasn't made for that task... So here's my question: what 
>> would
>> you suggest I could do to export my scores and help them prepare the album?
>> 
>> Thanks for the advices!
>> 
> 

Re: Export to XML

[Andrew Bernard]

I have no idea what software Schott Music Group uses for engraving, but 
it's disappointing nowadays that many of the larger publisher are 
demanding that composers do their work for them and requesting finished 
work, at least finished to the point they can apply their house style. I 
don't think any of the big names use Lilypond, and as far as I recall 
various efforts to get Lilypond to export MusicXML (with all its 
limitations)  have not come to any fruition. Unless they accept a PDF 
from you and print that or reset from scratch I think you are stuck. 
Sorry. I think the silence on the list re your question is also 
confirmation that there is not an answer to this. I may be wrong!


Andrew


On 25/08/2022 10:43 pm, nitra...@posteo.net wrote:

I proposed to send them my LilyPond files but I have been confirmed yesterday
that they cannot process those... They told me an XML file might help them
though. I looked if it was possible to export in XML but I read the result was
bad and LilyPond wasn't made for that task... So here's my question: what would
you suggest I could do to export my scores and help them prepare the album?

Thanks for the advices!

Export to XML

[nitram45]

Dear LilyPond users,

I used to post questions on the LilyPond forums few years back when it was
possible to post and edit messages directly online (on nabble.com if I
recall correctly). But since it was closed, I didn't take the time to
subscribe to the mailing list and haven't try that way. I somehow managed
to find answers to my questions myself, but today I would need some advice.

I used to be an intense Finale then Sibelius user and I learnt LilyPond
back in 2017. Since then, it is my only tool to engrave my scores and I have
moved progressively my workflow on Linux. Hence I cannot (and doesn't want) to
go back on those proprietary software and it also changed my use of LilyPond (I
replaced frescobaldi by vim, I use a lot of separate folders for each
projects and program some Makefiles to link everything smoothly, ...). 

I received some good news recently. A big music publisher (Schott Music Group),
is interested in publishing some of my compositions I made for my piano students
and it should be released in a near future. I engraved my score with great care,
and as I said, using a Makefile and some unix architecture for that particular
project. However, as you might guess, they want to engrave it with their own
editorial chart and within their music software (I am not sure of which one they
are using yet).

I proposed to send them my LilyPond files but I have been confirmed yesterday
that they cannot process those... They told me an XML file might help them
though. I looked if it was possible to export in XML but I read the result was
bad and LilyPond wasn't made for that task... So here's my question: what would
you suggest I could do to export my scores and help them prepare the album? 

Thanks for the advices!

Re: Export to musicxml

[Werner LEMBERG]

> What is the current state of the art with musicxml export? Any work
> being done on that?

I think the best stuff currently avaible is what Jacques is working on
in the (external) `libmusicxml` git repository (in the `lilypond`
branch).


Werner

Export to musicxml

[Andrew Bernard]

What is the current state of the art with musicxml export? Any work
being done on that?

Andrew

Another request : Please add OpenMusic to "Programs that export to Lilypond"

[Karim Haddad]

 Hi ,

  Another missing "programs that can export LilyPond code"
is OpenMusic ( http://repmus.ircam.fr/openmusic/home ).
Is it a is a visual programming language based on Lisp.
I have written a library that can export OM score editors to Lilypond, with 
polytempi support, and more.
It has also an import beta feature that allows to re-import exported scores to 
OpenMusic.
Personally i compose using OpenMusic environment and typeset my scores 
exclusively in The fantastatic Lilypond.

OM is free, the library also (all GNU GPL).

The library can be found here :
http://karim.haddad.free.fr/pages/downloads.html


You have also a paper here about all that :
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01456511/document

Best regards.

-- 
Karim Haddad



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Re: Please add MusicBlocks to "Programs that export to Lilypond"

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Devin Ulibarri 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Music Blocks is a visual programming language for music developed by
> Walter Bender (SugarLabs), myself, and many kids around the globe.
>
> It exports to Lilypond, and Lilypond export has been a priority for us.
>
> We noticed this page for "Other programs that can export LilyPond code":
> http://lilypond.org/easier-editing.html
>
> Would someone mind to add Music Blocks to this page, please?
>
> Our website/blog is at musicblocks.net
> Software is at https://walterbender.github.io/musicblocks/ and code is
> publicly available at https://github.com/walterbender/musicblocks


Licensed under AGPL

>
>
> Thanks,
> Devin
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Please add MusicBlocks to "Programs that export to Lilypond"

[Devin Ulibarri]

Hello,

Music Blocks is a visual programming language for music developed by
Walter Bender (SugarLabs), myself, and many kids around the globe.

It exports to Lilypond, and Lilypond export has been a priority for us.

We noticed this page for "Other programs that can export LilyPond code":
http://lilypond.org/easier-editing.html

Would someone mind to add Music Blocks to this page, please?

Our website/blog is at musicblocks.net
Software is at https://walterbender.github.io/musicblocks/ and code is
publicly available at https://github.com/walterbender/musicblocks

Thanks,
Devin

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Re: Export to ?????

[Nathan Ho]

On 2017-05-25 00:45, Don Gingrich wrote:

I've been looking and looking and I cannot
find any useful references to export file
formats from LilyPond.

Now, I will agree that LilyPond's PDF output
is very good looking and is actually my preferred
sheet music, But the sad reality it that there are
people who do exist who use tools other than
LilyPond, and that occasionally it becomes
necessary to exchange files with these poor
benighted souls. ;-)


hi don,

if you'll forgive me for self-promotion, i'm a contributor to an open 
source project (https://ncodamusic.org/) which aims to support 
translation between a number of music formats, including lilypond import 
and export.


it's early in development, so definitely not helpful to you in its 
current state. but i know you're not the only person interested in this, 
so i just wanted to put this on the radar.



nathan

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Re: Export to ?????

[Paul]

On 05/25/2017 10:51 AM, tisimst wrote:



This is very exciting news! Progress is progress and I know many 
people who will welcome even a fraction of conversion functionality. 
Can't wait to see what you've been working on!


+1
-Paul
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Re: Export to ?????

[tisimst]

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:52 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt [via Lilypond] <
ml+s1069038n20...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> just to summarize what I was talking about recently at the Music Encoding
> Conference in Tours. Yes, I am working on an API to provide a generalized
> plug for modules that are able to write MusicXML, MEI, Humdrum and others.
> I am not familiar with ABC, but maybe one can work on it *when* I can
> present some tidy code.
> In fact for my presentation I created to modules to write Humdrum and
> MusicXML. But those are not complete right now - no ties, now slurs and a
> lot more missing. But it writes the notes correctly and I can open the
> generated MusicXML with MuseScore. I will present it to the community after
> tidying up the code.
> My vision is to have an API that also allows Import modules. That way
> LilyPond can be a chain-link in a multiformat toolchain. Others can make
> use of its great typesetting and LilyPond-users (like me) can make use of
> the great tools outside Lilys world.
>

This is very exciting news! Progress is progress and I know many people who
will welcome even a fraction of conversion functionality. Can't wait to see
what you've been working on!

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Export to ?????

[David Wright]

On Thu 25 May 2017 at 12:09:16 (+0200), Mats Behre wrote:
> If the only purpose is to export to Finale or Sibelius the score itself may 
> well be a solution - there is software like SmartScore or PhotoScore that is 
> able convert it to their formats. Of course, they cost money, so your friend 
> may not be willing to go down that path ...

There's the rub. Money.

Looking at a similar but simpler problem, converting mathematical
expressions between LaTeX and MS Word. The typical cost appears
to be around $100; double that if you want to go both ways.
That means you pay as much for one conversion mode as the entire
MS Office Suite.

Comparing: LP is free (both senses, like LaTeX); Sibelius/Finale
cost about $600. So the going rate would appear to be about $600
for conversion of a subset of functionality.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Export to ?????

[David Wright]

On Thu 25 May 2017 at 18:34:24 (+1000), Don Gingrich wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2017 09:08:35 Richard Shann wrote:
> > On Thu, 2017-05-25 at 17:45 +1000, Don Gingrich wrote:
> > > If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
> > > to that of some of the M$ programs.
> > 
> > There is a crucial difference, you are entitled, indeed, encouraged to
> > write such an exporter.
> > 
> > Richard
> 
> OK, 
> 
> I'll agree with that. Just feeing frustrated at the moment
> since my primary collaborator is essentially 100% Finale
> and has some idiosyncratic ideas about how music should
> be handled.
> 
> His thinking is that for Folk Music, the musician should learn
> "by ear", though as a concession, he'll allow scores. And the
> MP3 files that I generate in a work-flow that is: 
> 
> MIDI -> WAV ->MP3
> 
> Don't satisfy him. 
> 
> 

I think you need to do some straight-talking with this person.
They don't believe in scores, but think that you should have
to convert your LP scores to Finale.

They think that musicians should learn by ear, but don't
approve of your sound files.

It's easy to have idiosyncratic ideas, difficult to put them
into practice. They just want to unload the effort onto you.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Export to ?????

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

Hello Don, Urs and all,

just to summarize what I was talking about recently at the Music Encoding 
Conference in Tours. Yes, I am working on an API to provide a generalized plug 
for modules that are able to write MusicXML, MEI, Humdrum and others. I am not 
familiar with ABC, but maybe one can work on it *when* I can present some tidy 
code. 
In fact for my presentation I created to modules to write Humdrum and MusicXML. 
But those are not complete right now - no ties, now slurs and a lot more 
missing. But it writes the notes correctly and I can open the generated 
MusicXML with MuseScore. I will present it to the community after tidying up 
the code.
My vision is to have an API that also allows Import modules. That way LilyPond 
can be a chain-link in a multiformat toolchain. Others can make use of its 
great typesetting and LilyPond-users (like me) can make use of the great tools 
outside Lilys world.

Jan-Peter


Am 25. Mai 2017 10:18:13 MESZ schrieb Urs Liska :
>
>
>Am 25.05.2017 um 09:45 schrieb Don Gingrich:
>> I've been looking and looking and I cannot
>> find any useful references to export file
>> formats from LilyPond.
>
>That's not completely true (see below)
>
>>
>> Now, I will agree that LilyPond's PDF output
>> is very good looking and is actually my preferred
>> sheet music, But the sad reality it that there are 
>> people who do exist who use tools other than
>> LilyPond, and that occasionally it becomes 
>> necessary to exchange files with these poor
>> benighted souls. ;-)
>
>Very true. Working with such persons or companies forces a LilyPond
>user
>to either use other tools right from the start or simply be excluded
>from that collaboration.
>
>>
>> Is there any export available from the .ly format?
>
>"any" may nail it. Frescobaldi has (if "experimental features" are
>activated") an "Export to MusicXML" option, which is, well,
>experimental. It is still pretty limited and quite fragile (makes
>assumptions about "correct" input etc.), but it *is* there at least.
>Over the summer we will have a student in the Google Summer of Code
>program who will hopefully make great progress on that.
>
>Of course MIDI is a working albeit very limited export format that has
>been available for a very long time.
>
>There have been multiple attempts at creating export functionality, but
>it *is* a tricky issue for technical reasons buried in the basic
>LilyPond architecture.
>
>Right now Jan-Peter Voigt (who might chime in to this discussion) is
>considering something like an API for a generic export infrastructure
>where exporters to various formats may be created and hooked in more
>easily.
>
>>
>> If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
>> to that of some of the M$ programs. 
>
>Indeed, this is the case. I *think* originally noone thought it
>necessary, LilyPond being the "engrave" tool in a Unix-like toolchain
>from one-purpose tools. This discussion has been around for many years
>by now, but due to the technical challenges and the lack of manpower no
>viable solution has been found yet.
>
>> And some
>> reasonable export that preserves a substantial
>> portion of the information might be useful.
>
>Yes.
>
>Best
>Urs
>>
>> My personal needs are simple -- ABC format
>> would probably be enough for me.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Don
>
>-- 
>u...@openlilylib.org
>https://openlilylib.org
>http://lilypondblog.org
>
>
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Re: Export to ?????

[Mats Behre]

If the only purpose is to export to Finale or Sibelius the score itself may 
well be a solution - there is software like SmartScore or PhotoScore that is 
able convert it to their formats. Of course, they cost money, so your friend 
may not be willing to go down that path ...

Mats

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Re: Export to ?????

[Urs Liska]

Am 25.05.2017 um 10:51 schrieb Andrew Bernard:
> Hi Don,
>
> You cannot call this 'lock-in' because nobody has forced you to use
> lilypond and you have not paid anything for it, and there is no intent
> on the part of the lilypond project to capture you and your money. I
> am unable to see how the concept of deliberate commercial 'lock-in'
> applies to open source projects.

Then maybe I suggest to call it a practical-lock-in.
As a user, if you've decided to work with LilyPond and created a project
or even a whole library of projects, you're basically locked in to using
them with LilyPond. There's currently no viable solution to take an
existing project (at least of some complexity) and pass that on to
someone who insists on using other software.

There's no commercial intent to this, OK.
And there's no restriction to create a solution, OK.

But for a *user* this doesn't make any difference, he can't reuse his
work otherwise.
And apart from the usual case of commercial publishers insisting on
Sibelius files there *are* other valid reasons why one would like to
export LilyPond files. For example getting the music into a DAW to
create *good* audio, where MIDI is still very limited. Or exporting to
Humdrum files for which there is a plethora of tools for music analysis.
And probably a lot more.

>
> Lack of export formats in lilypond is not a fair criticism, especially
> since there is no universal music notation exchange standard, and
> MusicXML is severely lacking in many respects, and is not necessarily
> going to ever become a universal standard.

I think it *is* a defect that LilyPond hasn't ever really considered
export to *any* other encoding formats important (right from the initial
conception). Yes, there is no ODF for music. But if LibreOffice wouldn't
provide export filters for Word or Excel I think lots of people wouldn't
be able to use it.
Not being able to export to MusicXML (with all its limitations) is a
hard reason not to use LilyPond for many people who might otherwise
consider it.

BTW: MEI may well become such a universal standard.

>
> If you need to export to ABC and so, then by all means start a project
> to do it and recruit participants. If you were truly locked in, such a
> path would not be possible.

But let's face it: for the average user this path is only a theoretical
option.

Urs

> One technical issue with 'downsampling' to a lesser format is what to
> do with the sophisticated constructs that ABC cannot handle.
>
> The problem with not being able to work with Finale users is just on
> of those things. Unfortunate.
>
> And sorry, I for one, even as a fanatically dedicated Linux user for
> decades or however long, do not like needless bashing of Microsoft
> with the M$ epithet. That's verging on trolling.
>
> On 25 May 2017 at 18:34, Don Gingrich  <mailto:gingr...@internode.on.net>> wrote:
>
>
> > If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
> > to that of some of the M$ programs.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
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Re: Export to ?????

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Don,

You cannot call this 'lock-in' because nobody has forced you to use
lilypond and you have not paid anything for it, and there is no intent on
the part of the lilypond project to capture you and your money. I am unable
to see how the concept of deliberate commercial 'lock-in' applies to open
source projects.

Lack of export formats in lilypond is not a fair criticism, especially
since there is no universal music notation exchange standard, and MusicXML
is severely lacking in many respects, and is not necessarily going to ever
become a universal standard.

If you need to export to ABC and so, then by all means start a project to
do it and recruit participants. If you were truly locked in, such a path
would not be possible. One technical issue with 'downsampling' to a lesser
format is what to do with the sophisticated constructs that ABC cannot
handle.

The problem with not being able to work with Finale users is just on of
those things. Unfortunate.

And sorry, I for one, even as a fanatically dedicated Linux user for
decades or however long, do not like needless bashing of Microsoft with the
M$ epithet. That's verging on trolling.

On 25 May 2017 at 18:34, Don Gingrich  wrote:

>
> > If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
> > to that of some of the M$ programs.
>


Andrew
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Re: Export to ?????

[David Kastrup]

Don Gingrich  writes:

> On Thu, 25 May 2017 09:08:35 Richard Shann wrote:
>> On Thu, 2017-05-25 at 17:45 +1000, Don Gingrich wrote:
>> > If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
>> > to that of some of the M$ programs.
>> 
>> There is a crucial difference, you are entitled, indeed, encouraged to
>> write such an exporter.
>
> I'll agree with that. Just feeing frustrated at the moment
> since my primary collaborator is essentially 100% Finale
> and has some idiosyncratic ideas about how music should
> be handled.
>
> His thinking is that for Folk Music, the musician should learn
> "by ear", though as a concession, he'll allow scores. And the
> MP3 files that I generate in a work-flow that is: 
>
> MIDI -> WAV ->MP3
>
> Don't satisfy him. 
>
> 

This is only partly a problem with LilyPond.  But partly, it indeed is.

And partly, that is because programmers, the kind of people actually
improving LilyPond and its tools, often work with LilyPond because they
very much prefer working with it over other tools, so interchange tends
to be lower on the agenda than if such an agenda was based on the
"average user" rather than the "average contributor".

I still don't agree that this is anything like the walled gardens of
Microsoft.  There is no wall, just a limit to the range of the water
sprinklers.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Export to ?????

[Don Gingrich]

On Thu, 25 May 2017 09:08:35 Richard Shann wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-05-25 at 17:45 +1000, Don Gingrich wrote:
> > If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
> > to that of some of the M$ programs.
> 
> There is a crucial difference, you are entitled, indeed, encouraged to
> write such an exporter.
> 
> Richard

OK, 

I'll agree with that. Just feeing frustrated at the moment
since my primary collaborator is essentially 100% Finale
and has some idiosyncratic ideas about how music should
be handled.

His thinking is that for Folk Music, the musician should learn
"by ear", though as a concession, he'll allow scores. And the
MP3 files that I generate in a work-flow that is: 

MIDI -> WAV ->MP3

Don't satisfy him. 



-Don
-- 
Don Gingrich

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Re: Export to ?????

[Richard Shann]

On Thu, 2017-05-25 at 17:45 +1000, Don Gingrich wrote:
> If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
> to that of some of the M$ programs.
There is a crucial difference, you are entitled, indeed, encouraged to
write such an exporter.

Richard



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Re: Export to ?????

[Urs Liska]

Am 25.05.2017 um 09:45 schrieb Don Gingrich:
> I've been looking and looking and I cannot
> find any useful references to export file
> formats from LilyPond.

That's not completely true (see below)

>
> Now, I will agree that LilyPond's PDF output
> is very good looking and is actually my preferred
> sheet music, But the sad reality it that there are 
> people who do exist who use tools other than
> LilyPond, and that occasionally it becomes 
> necessary to exchange files with these poor
> benighted souls. ;-)

Very true. Working with such persons or companies forces a LilyPond user
to either use other tools right from the start or simply be excluded
from that collaboration.

>
> Is there any export available from the .ly format?

"any" may nail it. Frescobaldi has (if "experimental features" are
activated") an "Export to MusicXML" option, which is, well,
experimental. It is still pretty limited and quite fragile (makes
assumptions about "correct" input etc.), but it *is* there at least.
Over the summer we will have a student in the Google Summer of Code
program who will hopefully make great progress on that.

Of course MIDI is a working albeit very limited export format that has
been available for a very long time.

There have been multiple attempts at creating export functionality, but
it *is* a tricky issue for technical reasons buried in the basic
LilyPond architecture.

Right now Jan-Peter Voigt (who might chime in to this discussion) is
considering something like an API for a generic export infrastructure
where exporters to various formats may be created and hooked in more easily.

>
> If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
> to that of some of the M$ programs. 

Indeed, this is the case. I *think* originally noone thought it
necessary, LilyPond being the "engrave" tool in a Unix-like toolchain
from one-purpose tools. This discussion has been around for many years
by now, but due to the technical challenges and the lack of manpower no
viable solution has been found yet.

> And some
> reasonable export that preserves a substantial
> portion of the information might be useful.

Yes.

Best
Urs
>
> My personal needs are simple -- ABC format
> would probably be enough for me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Don

-- 
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https://openlilylib.org
http://lilypondblog.org


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Export to ?????

[Don Gingrich]

I've been looking and looking and I cannot
find any useful references to export file
formats from LilyPond.

Now, I will agree that LilyPond's PDF output
is very good looking and is actually my preferred
sheet music, But the sad reality it that there are 
people who do exist who use tools other than
LilyPond, and that occasionally it becomes 
necessary to exchange files with these poor
benighted souls. ;-)

Is there any export available from the .ly format?

If not, then I suggest that this is a "lock-in" similar
to that of some of the M$ programs. And some
reasonable export that preserves a substantial
portion of the information might be useful.

My personal needs are simple -- ABC format
would probably be enough for me.

Thanks,

-Don
-- 
Don Gingrich

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Re: Export to PNGs

[David Wright]

On Thu 22 Dec 2016 at 19:30:13 (+0100), Mirosław Doroszewski wrote:
> Exporting to image file in LilyPond version 2.18.2.
> 
> 1. Command line help tells that lilypond can export prints not only to
> pdf but also to png format.
> 2. Command line help does not tell how set resolution for image
> format. I have found the setting in Learning help file. The setting
> is: "lilypond --png -dresolution=300".
> 3. I have used lilypond a few years ago and I remember that it is
> possible to export not only into separate pages but also each system
> into separate image files.
> 4. How one can do that in command line?

Page 481 of the Notation Reference: add
 -dclip-systems -fpng
to the command line, and modify your \layout with

  \layout {
clip-regions =
#(list
  (cons
   (make-rhythmic-location 0 0 1)
   (make-rhythmic-location  0 1)
 )
)
  }

Cheers,
David.

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Re: export to musescore

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/13/2013 12:00 PM, Peter Bjuhr wrote:


On 11/12/2013 09:40 AM, Urs Liska wrote:


the way to go would be MusicXML export.
While this wish has popped up every now and then for years, Peter 
Bjuhr has just started to give it an actual try. We don't know how 
far this will get, but it will at least be a start for this very 
important improvement.
When we've sorted out the options and have something like a "roadmap" 
we'll post about it again.


I'd like to add that the actual development is partly taking place in 
the development version of Frescobaldi, perhaps someone has seen the 
menu element there and wondered. It's still very basic and limited so 
I would definitely hesitate to promote any real use of it besides for 
testing purposes.





Maybe I should also clarify that the roadmap Urs is writing about is for 
a LilyPond export and not just for Frescobaldi users. We hope to get 
back with more info about this soon...


Best
Peter


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Re: export to musescore

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/12/2013 09:40 AM, Urs Liska wrote:

Am 12.11.2013 09:06, schrieb Stefan Thomas:

Dear community,
is there a way to export lilypond to musescore?
I don't want to give up using lilypond, but when I work with students 
and pupils, I've experienced that they have a lot of difficulties in 
using lilypond and that they prefer with a gui.

All the best
Stefan



Hi Thomas,

the way to go would be MusicXML export.
While this wish has popped up every now and then for years, Peter 
Bjuhr has just started to give it an actual try. We don't know how far 
this will get, but it will at least be a start for this very important 
improvement.
When we've sorted out the options and have something like a "roadmap" 
we'll post about it again.


Urs




I'd like to add that the actual development is partly taking place in 
the development version of Frescobaldi, perhaps someone has seen the 
menu element there and wondered. It's still very basic and limited so I 
would definitely hesitate to promote any real use of it besides for 
testing purposes.


Stefan, maybe it could be interesting to know something of the level of 
complexity of the LilyPond code you wish to export or even a short 
example. Then at least I could tell you how far away a successful export 
is at this point.


Best
Peter

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Re: export to musescore

[Richard Shann]

On Tue, 2013-11-12 at 19:16 +0100, Stefan Thomas wrote:
> Dear Richard,
> 
> I've tried to open a lilypond-file with denemo, but it didn't work,
> unfortunately.

Yes - what I had in mind was to use Denemo to create the LilyPond you
need (then you can pass the Denemo file to your students). Only a
limited amount of LilyPond syntax is parsed by Denemo. What works best
is pasting LilyPond notes into a staff in Denemo, but sadly whole
LilyPond file import rarely succeeds without pruning out various
constructs that Denemo doesn't cope with.

Richard


> 
> On Tue, 2013-11-12 at 09:40 +0100, Urs Liska wrote:
> > Am 12.11.2013 09:06, schrieb Stefan Thomas:
> > > Dear community,
> > > is there a way to export lilypond to musescore?
> > > I don't want to give up using lilypond, but when I work with
> > students 
> > > and pupils, I've experienced that they have a lot of difficulties
> > in 
> > > using lilypond and that they prefer with a gui.
> > > All the best
> > > Stefan
> > >
> > 
> > Hi Thomas,
> > 
> > the way to go would be MusicXML export. 
> I would say the way to go is use Denemo and get the students to do so
> too. That way you get the LilyPond typesetting across the whole class.
> (But I would :) )
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
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Re: export to musescore

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear Richard,
I've tried to open a lilypond-file with denemo, but it didn't work,
unfortunately.

On Tue, 2013-11-12 at 09:40 +0100, Urs Liska wrote:
> >* Am 12.11.2013 09:06, schrieb Stefan Thomas:*
> >* > Dear community,*
> >* > is there a way to export lilypond to musescore?*
> >* > I don't want to give up using lilypond, but when I work with*
> >* students *
> >* > and pupils, I've experienced that they have a lot of difficulties*
> >* in *
> >* > using lilypond and that they prefer with a gui.*
> >* > All the best*
> >* > Stefan*
> >* >*
> >
> >* Hi Thomas,*
> >
> >* the way to go would be MusicXML export. *
> I would say the way to go is use Denemo and get the students to do so
> too. That way you get the LilyPond typesetting across the whole class.
> (But I would :) )
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
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Re: export to musescore

[Richard Shann]

On Tue, 2013-11-12 at 09:40 +0100, Urs Liska wrote:
> Am 12.11.2013 09:06, schrieb Stefan Thomas:
> > Dear community,
> > is there a way to export lilypond to musescore?
> > I don't want to give up using lilypond, but when I work with
> students 
> > and pupils, I've experienced that they have a lot of difficulties
> in 
> > using lilypond and that they prefer with a gui.
> > All the best
> > Stefan
> >
> 
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> the way to go would be MusicXML export. 
I would say the way to go is use Denemo and get the students to do so
too. That way you get the LilyPond typesetting across the whole class.
(But I would :) )

Richard



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Re: export to musescore

[Urs Liska]

Am 12.11.2013 09:06, schrieb Stefan Thomas:

Dear community,
is there a way to export lilypond to musescore?
I don't want to give up using lilypond, but when I work with students 
and pupils, I've experienced that they have a lot of difficulties in 
using lilypond and that they prefer with a gui.

All the best
Stefan



Hi Thomas,

the way to go would be MusicXML export.
While this wish has popped up every now and then for years, Peter Bjuhr 
has just started to give it an actual try. We don't know how far this 
will get, but it will at least be a start for this very important 
improvement.
When we've sorted out the options and have something like a "roadmap" 
we'll post about it again.


Urs

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export to musescore

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear community,
is there a way to export lilypond to musescore?
I don't want to give up using lilypond, but when I work with students and
pupils, I've experienced that they have a lot of difficulties in using
lilypond and that they prefer with a gui.
All the best
Stefan
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Re: File export to LilyPond

[Colin Campbell]

On 13-08-11 07:30 PM, Christopher Reed wrote:
hello can someone please help me export my file to lilypond it will 
not do it for some reason :(



We'll need to know what sort of file you are creating, in which program 
and on what operating system, Christopher.
In general, LilyPond files are created directly in a text editor, or 
even better, in a special purpose application such as Frescobaldi. 
Dependng on your operating system, you can double click on the file or 
perhaps drag and drop it onto an icon, then LilyPond does the rest.


If you are exporting from another music program such as Finale or 
Sibelius, let us know and we can work through that with you.


You would very definitely find the online reference material handy, 
particularly the Introduction and Learning Manual.


Let us know how you make out!

Cheers,
Colin

--
I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both 
hands. You need to be able to throw something back.
-Maya Angelou, poet (1928- )


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Re: Export to image with semantic information

[Stuart Pullinger]

> I do not want to add the complexity of a whole music notation program to the 
> project, so I am looking for (for example) a SVG output, which also puts 
> additional semantic information into the symbols (for example, annotate a 
> notehead symbol with "").
> 
> Is there already any possibility in Lilypond to do something like this or do 
> you have another suggestion?

Lilypond cannot currently do this. To add this feature would require
quite a lot of work. If you want to do some scheme coding, start at
scm/output-svg.scm in the lilypond source and work back from there.

I tried to add something similar to Lilypond a while ago but didn't get
very far. Since then, the SVG output has been changed and improved so I
wouldn't know how to go about it now.

I would be interested in any progress made in this area or any
alternatives that I might not be aware of.

Stuart

PS. One hack that I worked on was to use lilypond's clickable noteheads
option to point from the output file to lilypond code in the source file. 
If you put each note on it's own line you can put whatever machine-readable 
semantic information you like in a comment on the same line.

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Export to image with semantic information

[Andreas Wenger]

Hi,

in an application that allows conducting a virtual symphony orchestra, I need 
to display a score. I do not just want to paint the score as a bitmap, but for 
example highlight the currently played notes and so on.

I do not want to add the complexity of a whole music notation program to the 
project, so I am looking for (for example) a SVG output, which also puts 
additional semantic information into the symbols (for example, annotate a 
notehead symbol with "").

Is there already any possibility in Lilypond to do something like this or do 
you have another suggestion?

Thanks,


Andi
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