Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
Hi, > I think that attrubutes are defining the metronome settings? I do not know If > the "swing relation" 67/33 will change with the Tempo? The ratio doesn’t necessarily change with the tempo — but it definitely changes with the feel. There can be a “hard swing” [feel] or “soft swing” [feel or “medium swing” [feel] at *ANY* tempo, though each is more difficult at certain tempos than others. Cheers, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
On 16-03-31 02:14 AM, m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl wrote: Btw: the concept of Swing notation is not Limited to Jazz Blues Pop music. In old French Baroque music there was something similar called "inegalité". Such music can also benifit from a lilypond/scheme functioneren like this. In fact, there is a TODO comment in articulate.ly regarding inegalité, so perhaps Johannes' code can be used there as well. Cheers, Colin -- As I know more of mankind I expect less of them, and am ready now to call a man a good man upon easier terms than I was formerly. - Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1874), writer ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
I think that attrubutes are defining the metronome settings? I do not know If the "swing relation" 67/33 will change with the Tempo? Anyway, not wrong an option to set this relation. Fast Swing to Very Fast Swing: (252, 264, 276, 288, 304, 320, 336, ...) Up Swing: (208, 216, 224, 232, 240,) Medium Up Swing: (160, 168, 176, 184, 192, 200) Medium Swing: (120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 152) Moderate Swing: (104, 108, 112, 116) Slow Swing: (88, 92, 96, 100) Medium Ballad: (72, 76, 80, 84) Slow Ballad: (..., 60, 63, 66, 69) I got the list from a jazz workshop but was told that tempo is always an interpreters choice. (May be the "swing relation" as well? For comparison, Wikipedia says: Prestissimo ; extremely fast (more than 200 bpm) Presto ; very fast (168;200 bpm) Allegro ; fast and bright or "march tempo" (120;168 bpm) Moderato ; moderately (108;120 bpm) Andante ; at a walking pace (761;108 bpm) Adagio ; slow and stately (literally, "at ease") (66;76 bpm) Larghetto ; rather broadly (60;66 bpm) On 31.03.2016 13:16, Kieren MacMillan wrote: Hi all, On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:41 AM, Blöchl Bernhard wrote: The real swing has a duration relation of about 67/33 (music scientists say) There are different swings — hard, soft, medium, etc. — and the ratios are different for each. For a Lilypond function that adjusts the MIDI performance and/or notation, it would be nice to be able to dictate the ratio. Best, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
Hi all, On Mar 31, 2016, at 3:41 AM, Blöchl Bernhard wrote: > The real swing has a duration relation of about 67/33 (music scientists say) There are different swings — hard, soft, medium, etc. — and the ratios are different for each. For a Lilypond function that adjusts the MIDI performance and/or notation, it would be nice to be able to dictate the ratio. Best, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
Btw: the concept of Swing notation is not Limited to Jazz Blues Pop music. In old French Baroque music there was something similar called "inegalité".Such music can also benifit from a lilypond/scheme functioneren like this. Oorspronkelijk bericht Onderwerp: Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?Van: Simon Albrecht Aan: Blöchl Bernhard ,lilypond-user@gnu.orgCc: On 31.03.2016 09:41, Blöchl Bernhard wrote:> Is'nt it possible to provide a "swing button" for 67/33 for to make > the midi file swinging, but leaves the 50/50 notation in the pdf > untouched? That’s all this thread is about. Stephen MacNeil already pointed out that Johannes Rohrer has come up with such a ‘button’, rather a bit of scheme/lilypond code that, when included, does this.Best, Simon___lilypond-user mailing listlilypond-user@gnu.orghttps://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
On 31.03.2016 09:41, Blöchl Bernhard wrote: Is'nt it possible to provide a "swing button" for 67/33 for to make the midi file swinging, but leaves the 50/50 notation in the pdf untouched? That’s all this thread is about. Stephen MacNeil already pointed out that Johannes Rohrer has come up with such a ‘button’, rather a bit of scheme/lilypond code that, when included, does this. Best, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
Music is written to be easily readable, and the musician is trusted to adopt the correct performance practice. But midi is not a feeling musician, it is a machine. It does not know the swing concept of unequal durations. In conventional notation there is only possible 50/50 and 75/25, the equivalent of a dotted quaver and a consequent semiquaver. The real swing has a duration relation of about 67/33 (music scientists say) while the notation shows a relationship of 50/50. Is'nt it possible to provide a "swing button" for 67/33 for to make the midi file swinging, but leaves the 50/50 notation in the pdf untouched? Am 31.03.2016 08:51, schrieb David Kastrup: Henry Law writes: On 31/03/16 01:48, Colin Campbell wrote: into more of a triplet effect If I, as a sometime jazz player, were trying to communicate the effect of "swing" then I'd say, summarising brutally and rather inaccurately, "It's written as 4/4 but played as 12/8." In other words the player adds something that's not written down, If typeset properly, the spacing will be swung as well (if you have 2 eighths against 3 eighth triplets, the second eighth will be aligned with the last triplet, for example). which is going to make it rather hard for you to generate MIDI which, since it's generated from the written-down bits, is /ipso facto/ lacking the "feel" that the player adds. 8*4/3 8*2/3 should work for both typesetting as well as Midi. But you'd really want to have some music function to do the swinging rather than having to do it manually for every note. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
Henry Law writes: > On 31/03/16 01:48, Colin Campbell wrote: >> into more of a triplet effect > > If I, as a sometime jazz player, were trying to communicate the effect > of "swing" then I'd say, summarising brutally and rather inaccurately, > "It's written as 4/4 but played as 12/8." > > In other words the player adds something that's not written down, If typeset properly, the spacing will be swung as well (if you have 2 eighths against 3 eighth triplets, the second eighth will be aligned with the last triplet, for example). > which is going to make it rather hard for you to generate MIDI which, > since it's generated from the written-down bits, is /ipso facto/ > lacking the "feel" that the player adds. 8*4/3 8*2/3 should work for both typesetting as well as Midi. But you'd really want to have some music function to do the swinging rather than having to do it manually for every note. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
On 16-03-30 08:49 PM, Stephen MacNeil wrote: Hi Colin Sometime ago I came across a file on the net... not sure where. It was written by Johannes Rohrer I believe. Anyway all you do is \include "../SwingMarks.ly" % location of file #(load "../swing.scm") % location of file and it will play the midi in swing and example is on my site http://www.mglessons.com/lilypond/ source for the example is http://www.mglessons.com/lilypond/svg/Ex25.ly you can also download the files there You, sir, are a gentleman, a scholar, and an undoubted prince among men! My heartfelt thanks for what looks like it will solve my problem very neatly indeed, as well as adding to my toolkit. Cheers, Colin -- I stay cool and dig all jive, That's the way I stay alive. My motto, as I live and learn, is "Dig and be dug in return." - Langston Hughes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
Hi Colin Sometime ago I came across a file on the net... not sure where. It was written by Johannes Rohrer I believe. Anyway all you do is \include "../SwingMarks.ly" % location of file #(load "../swing.scm") % location of file and it will play the midi in swing and example is on my site http://www.mglessons.com/lilypond/ source for the example is http://www.mglessons.com/lilypond/svg/Ex25.ly you can also download the files there HTH Stephen ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
On 31/03/16 01:48, Colin Campbell wrote: into more of a triplet effect If I, as a sometime jazz player, were trying to communicate the effect of "swing" then I'd say, summarising brutally and rather inaccurately, "It's written as 4/4 but played as 12/8." In other words the player adds something that's not written down, which is going to make it rather hard for you to generate MIDI which, since it's generated from the written-down bits, is /ipso facto/ lacking the "feel" that the player adds. Sounds to me as if you're going to have to play it on a keyboard and save the (quantized) note values as MIDI. -- Henry LawManchester, England ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
How to get swing feel from dotted notation?
I'm transcribing a piece originally written with a lot of syncopation,
using half-values ties across the beat, as well as what I think must be
intended as a "swing" feel, notated with dotted rhythms. No problem
reproducing the visual elements, but I also need to produce practice
tracks for an amateur chorale, and the output in MIDI is very jerky.
I've read /ly/articulate.ly but didn't see anything understandably
useful. I think I need to turn the rhythms, both syncopated and dotted,
into more of a triplet effect, in order to get the smooth swing I need.
I've set up two \score blocks, to separate \layout and \midi, and
\included "articulate.ly", but clearly, I need further suggestions.
A typical couple of bars look like this:
*
{
\time 4/4 \key e \major
r2 r4 r8 b
e8 b16 e~ e8 fs16 a~ a gs8. fs16 e
d8 e16 cs~ cs2 r8 b
}
***
Cheers,
Colin
--
Theatre is Life.
Film is Art.
Television is Furniture.
-- :-( Xjahn, The TheatrElf :-)
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