Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
On Wed, 2016-03-02 at 14:37 +, Graham King wrote:
> I'm trying to eradicate numerous "Impossible or ambiguous
> (de)crescendo in MIDI" errors from a large score...
Well, there's some, qualified, success to report: I've eliminated the
various, sometimes well-hidden, causes of these messages. But doing so
has taken half the total time spent on the score. It would be wonderful
if the error message could be accompanied by any indication at all of
where in the score, or input file, to look for the cause.
Meanwhile, here's a note to my future self with some search strategies.
I hope others might find it useful:
The following examples might encompass any number of intermediate notes
and rests. I'm using lilypond 2.19.35, so other versions might need to
use different syntax.
1. Compile early; compile often; fix the warnings as they arise;
don't let them mount up. This will reduce the search space.
2. { c\mf\> c\! } MIDI needs an end dynamic. Replace with { c\mf
\> c-\omit\p } Now go and eradicate \! from your score. It is
anathema to MIDI.
3. { c\p c\< c\> c } The classic pair of hairpins. Replace with
{ c\p c\< c-\omit\mf\> c-\omit\p }
4. { c\mf R1*20 c\< c\mf } Obvious when you see it written this
briefly. Replace with { c\mf R1*20 c-\omit\mp\< c\mf }
5. { c_\markup { \dynamic p \italic { dolce } } Looks like a
dynamic, walks like a dynamic, but doesn't quack like one.
Replace with { c-\omit\p_\markup { \dynamic p \italic
{ dolce } } Likewise for "meno f" and many other cases.
6. { c1\sfz } No this is not a dynamic, either. Try:{ \tag #'pdf
{ c1\sfz } \tag #'midi { c4->\f ~ c2.\mf } } [note 1]
7. If you still cannot find the source of the problem, adopt a
bisection strategy: Comment out \bookpart and any corresponding
\include stanzas from the \book. Then comment out parts from
the \score { } block until the number of warnings changes. Then
pursue bisection further, by commenting out blocks of notes from
the offending part. Block comments, %{ ... %}, are your friend.
Eventually you will home in on the source of the problem.
8. Version control (git, or similar) is your friend. In a year's
time, it will show you the answer to "How did I fix that, last
time?"
9. When you have finally fixed it, swallow your pride and write up
the solution somewhere you are likely to search for information
next time. Somewhere like lilypond-user ...
Notes:
[1] Thanks to Cynthia Karl for pointing this one out. And thanks to
Simon Albrecht for pointing out that, if you are already using tags,
you'll probably need \tagGroup pdf.midi and other tag groups for those
you already are using.
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Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
On Thu, 2016-03-17 at 22:51 +, Graham King wrote: > On Wed, 2016-03-02 at 14:37 +, Graham King wrote: > > I'm trying to eradicate numerous "Impossible or ambiguous > > (de)crescendo in MIDI" errors from a large score... > Well, there's some, qualified, success to report: I've eliminated the > various, sometimes well-hidden, causes of these messages. But doing > so has taken half the total time spent on the score. It would be > wonderful if the error message could be accompanied by any indication > at all of where in the score, or input file, to look for the cause. > > Meanwhile, here's a note to my future self with some search > strategies. I hope others might find it useful: > > The following examples might encompass any number of intermediate > notes and rests. I'm using lilypond 2.19.35, so other versions might > need to use different syntax. > > 1. Compile early; compile often; fix the warnings as they arise; > don't let them mount up. This will reduce the search space. For this I suggest you use compiling in the background, I think Frescobaldi may provide this, certainly Denemo does. Best of all though would be to set up a separate process niced down to alert you to trouble (Denemo doesn't make a big fuss if the compilation fails during background compile, since this will sometimes happen during normal editing - e.g. when entering a [ before entering the ]). Richard ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
Hello Graham,
On 17.03.2016 23:51, Graham King wrote:
# { c_\markup { \dynamic p \italic { dolce } } Looks like a dynamic,
walks like a dynamic, but doesn't quack like one. Replace with {
c-\omit\p_\markup { \dynamic p \italic { dolce } } Likewise for "meno
f" and many other cases.
# { c1\sfz } No this is not a dynamic, either. Try:{ \tag #'pdf {
c1\sfz } \tag #'midi { c4->\f ~ c2.\mf } } [note 1]
(the numbering renders quite badly now… this was nos. 5 & 6)
I have a stylesheet called ‘dynamic-custom.ily’, which is \included into
‘standard-include.ily’, which I \include in virtually all my projects.
It contains a bunch of lines like:
pDolce = #(make-dynamic-script (markup "p" #:normal-text #:italic "dolce"))
[equivalent to
pDolce = #(make-dynamic-script #{ \markup { p \normal-text \italic dolce
} #})
]
\pDolce now creates a DynamicText grob instead of a TextScript grob,
which is crucial, since only the former affects MIDI.
I guess you might do something similar for ‘sfz’, but without getting a
proper rendition in sound, of course.
HTH, Simon
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Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
On Fri, 2016-03-18 at 00:13 +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Hello Graham,
>
> On 17.03.2016 23:51, Graham King wrote:
> > # { c_\markup { \dynamic p \italic { dolce } } Looks like a dynamic,
> > walks like a dynamic, but doesn't quack like one. Replace with {
> > c-\omit\p_\markup { \dynamic p \italic { dolce } } Likewise for "meno
> > f" and many other cases.
> > # { c1\sfz } No this is not a dynamic, either. Try:{ \tag #'pdf {
> > c1\sfz } \tag #'midi { c4->\f ~ c2.\mf } } [note 1]
>
> (the numbering renders quite badly now… this was nos. 5 & 6)
>
> I have a stylesheet called ‘dynamic-custom.ily’, which is \included into
> ‘standard-include.ily’, which I \include in virtually all my projects.
> It contains a bunch of lines like:
>
> pDolce = #(make-dynamic-script (markup "p" #:normal-text #:italic "dolce"))
>
> [equivalent to
> pDolce = #(make-dynamic-script #{ \markup { p \normal-text \italic dolce
> } #})
> ]
>
> \pDolce now creates a DynamicText grob instead of a TextScript grob,
> which is crucial, since only the former affects MIDI.
> I guess you might do something similar for ‘sfz’, but without getting a
> proper rendition in sound, of course.
>
> HTH, Simon
thanks Simon. That looks very neat, and confers the additional
advantage of enforcing some stylistic consistency. I'll investigate
further.
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Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI
On 05.03.2016 01:04, Graham King wrote:
On Fri, 2016-03-04 at 13:33 -0600, Cynthia Karl wrote:
>
I think I understand why these errors are generated. It would appear
that \fz is not intended to be used as a dynamic - it is not
mentioned in the NR. Nevertheless, is is defined as a dynamic script
in the LP file dynamic-scripts-init.ly. Unfortunately, there is no
corresponding entry in midi.scm to assign a “factor of total volume”
for this dynamic, without which the midi performer is unable to do
anything sensible.
It is possible you might get the results you want by rewriting the
snippet as:
> music = \relative {
> c''2\p\< c |
> \tag #'pdf c1\fz\>
> \tag #'midi c1\f->\>
> c\p |
> }
>
> \score {
> \keepWithTag #'pdf \music
> }
>
> \score {
> \keepWithTag #'midi \music
> \midi {}
> }
>
Good idea; thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try over the
weekend, once I've worked out the ramifications for other tags in use.
You’ll want to use
\tagGroup pdf.midi
and other tag groups for those you already are using.
Best, Simon
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Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI
On Fri, 2016-03-04 at 13:33 -0600, Cynthia Karl wrote:
> >
>
> I think I understand why these errors are generated. It would appear that
> \fz is not intended to be used as a dynamic - it is not mentioned in the NR.
> Nevertheless, is is defined as a dynamic script in the LP file
> dynamic-scripts-init.ly. Unfortunately, there is no corresponding entry in
> midi.scm to assign a “factor of total volume” for this dynamic, without which
> the midi performer is unable to do anything sensible.
>
> It is possible you might get the results you want by rewriting the snippet as:
>
> > music = \relative {
> >c''2\p\< c |
> >\tag #'pdf c1\fz\>
> >\tag #'midi c1\f->\>
> >c\p |
> > }
> >
> > \score {
> >\keepWithTag #'pdf \music
> > }
> >
> > \score {
> >\keepWithTag #'midi \music
> >\midi {}
> > }
> >
Good idea; thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try over the
weekend, once I've worked out the ramifications for other tags in use.
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Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI
> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:37:44 +
> From: Graham King <graham.k...@tremagi.org.uk>
> To: LilyPond Users <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> Subject: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
> Message-ID: <1456929464.11804.791.ca...@oberon.tremagi.org.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii”
>
> 2) The second problem arose when I finally tracked down one such error.
> Here's the minimal example:
>
> \version "2.19.35"
>
> music = \relative {
>c''2\p\< c |
>c1\fz\>%-\omit\mf |
>c\p |
> }
>
> \score {
>\music
> }
>
> \score {
>\music
>\midi {}
> }
>
>
> As it stands, this gives two of these error messages.
I think I understand why these errors are generated. It would appear that \fz
is not intended to be used as a dynamic - it is not mentioned in the NR.
Nevertheless, is is defined as a dynamic script in the LP file
dynamic-scripts-init.ly. Unfortunately, there is no corresponding entry in
midi.scm to assign a “factor of total volume” for this dynamic, without which
the midi performer is unable to do anything sensible.
It is possible you might get the results you want by rewriting the snippet as:
> music = \relative {
>c''2\p\< c |
>\tag #'pdf c1\fz\>
>\tag #'midi c1\f->\>
>c\p |
> }
>
> \score {
>\keepWithTag #'pdf \music
> }
>
> \score {
>\keepWithTag #'midi \music
>\midi {}
> }
>
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Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
On 02.03.2016 21:21, Graham King wrote: On Wed, 2016-03-02 at 14:37 +, Graham King wrote: Is there a magic spell to soothe lilypond in these circumstances? It might seem like nit-picking, but there are so many of these errors in the score that they are obscuring other, more important, messages. Brian Barker has kindly answered this part of the problem, off-list, with: #(ly:expect-warning "Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI") which suppresses the messages, one at a time, and also provides a convenient way to mark their cause at source in the lilypond code. Even more convenient is writing #(ly:expect-warning "Impossible") which works as well. Best, Simon ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
On Wed, 2016-03-02 at 14:37 +, Graham King wrote: > Is there a magic spell to soothe lilypond in these circumstances? It > might seem like nit-picking, but there are so many of these errors in > the score that they are obscuring other, more important, messages. Brian Barker has kindly answered this part of the problem, off-list, with: #(ly:expect-warning "Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI") which suppresses the messages, one at a time, and also provides a convenient way to mark their cause at source in the lilypond code. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI.
I'm trying to eradicate numerous "Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo
in MIDI" errors from a large score, and two problems arise:
1) I'm finding it hard to locate the source of these errors. So far,
I've tried:
* searching the source for all dynamic changes ending with \! and
converting this to -\omit\mf (or some other suitable dynamic;
* then sort-of-bisecting the problem by suppressing each part in
turn,
* then visually inspecting the source for unterminated crescendos
and decrescendos.
But it is still not easy to run the errors to ground.
Is there some better tactic for locating their cause? (I note some
previous discussion on this list[1], and issue 3945[2])
2) The second problem arose when I finally tracked down one such error.
Here's the minimal example:
\version "2.19.35"
music = \relative {
c''2\p\< c |
c1\fz\>%-\omit\mf |
c\p |
}
\score {
\music
}
\score {
\music
\midi {}
}
As it stands, this gives two of these error messages. If I try to
suppress them by uncommenting "-\omit/mf" I get the following errors in
addition:
5:10: warning: Two simultaneous absolute-dynamic events, junking
this one
c1\fz\>
-\omit\mf |
5:5: warning: Previous absolute-dynamic event here
c1
\fz\>-\omit\mf |
Is there a magic spell to soothe lilypond in these circumstances? It
might seem like nit-picking, but there are so many of these errors in
the score that they are obscuring other, more important, messages.
Notes:
[1] For example,
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2014-05/msg00648.html
{2} At the time of writing, this may be found at
https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/3945/
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Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI
Parsing... Interpreting music...[8] Preprocessing graphical objects... Interpreting music... programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI. continuing, cross fingers... A line or bar number would be most helpful ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI
This was discussed here: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tt162479.html#a162546 The long and the short of it was to put a dynamic mark in, like \mf, and then \omit the text. There was some agreement that LilyPond should assume a dynamic of mf or handle this better. Knute Snortum (via Gmail) On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 1:21 AM, Javier Ruiz-Alma jav...@ruiz-alma.com wrote: Parsing... Interpreting music...[8] Preprocessing graphical objects... Interpreting music... programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI. continuing, cross fingers... A line or bar number would be most helpful ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI
I just noticed the last line of your post. Yes, a line number to the source would be nice. I don't know if this issue ever got into issue tracking for LilyPond. This comment should be added if it did. Knute Snortum (via Gmail) On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Knute Snortum ksnor...@gmail.com wrote: This was discussed here: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/MIDI-dynamics-parsing-error-tt162479.html#a162546 The long and the short of it was to put a dynamic mark in, like \mf, and then \omit the text. There was some agreement that LilyPond should assume a dynamic of mf or handle this better. Knute Snortum (via Gmail) On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 1:21 AM, Javier Ruiz-Alma jav...@ruiz-alma.com wrote: Parsing... Interpreting music...[8] Preprocessing graphical objects... Interpreting music... programming error: Impossible or ambiguous (de)crescendo in MIDI. continuing, cross fingers... A line or bar number would be most helpful ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
